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Wal-Mart Fights Maryland Law Mandating Minimus Level of Health Benefit Spending

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Comments

  • ryan198 wrote:
    I can see your points but where I disagree is that I feel like anytime Wal-Mart gets punished it's a good thing. Secondly, taxing corporations is a good thing to, but again this is where we disagree.

    That's cool. But the fact that you see this primarily as "punishment" should tell you everything you need to know about this law. It sets a very ugly precedent in this country, and the next time this happens it may not be on a target so attractive to you as Wal-Mart.
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    From an outside observer, it seems that all this law is doing is equalling the playing field. If businesses in Maryland are like businesses here in Ontario, I'm sure that most employers in Maryland offer some sort of health benefits to their employees. I'm just hypothesizing here, but maybe the average amount spent on health benefits among companies that give a shit about their employees is around 8% of the payroll of a typical Maryland business. Forcing Wal Mart to treat their employees as human beings is a good thing in my opinion. However, if the concensus of other businesses in Maryland is to not offer these benefits, then I would say that this law is unfair. I don't know enough about business practises in Maryland to say with conviction that this law is just or not. Wal Mart should be doing this on their own accord anyway. Respectable companies offer good benefits to their employees. They don't sell out the people who make them their money just so they can sell a 5 pound jar of pickels for 1.98.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • and then they can eat the leather off their shoes for dinner...light a match for heat...you know the drill.

    So why don't you pass a law that forces Wal-Mart to employ everyone?
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    nope, don't you remember farfromsympathetic's financial plan?? a family of 4 or more can live a month off of 5lbs of hamburger meat!!!

    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.
  • Songburst wrote:
    From an outside observer, it seems that all this law is doing is equalling the playing field.

    How can a law the applies to only one business be equated to "equalling the playing field"????
    If businesses in Maryland are like businesses here in Ontario, I'm sure that most employers in Maryland offer some sort of health benefits to their employees. I'm just hypothesizing here, but maybe the average amount spent on health benefits among companies that give a shit about their employees is around 8% of the payroll of a typical Maryland business. Forcing Wal Mart to treat their employees as human beings is a good thing in my opinion. However, if the concensus of other businesses in Maryland is to not offer these benefits, then I would say that this law is unfair. I don't know enough about business practises in Maryland to say with conviction that this law is just or not. Wal Mart should be doing this on their own accord anyway. Respectable companies offer good benefits to their employees. They don't sell out the people who make them their money just so they can sell a 5 pound jar of pickels for 1.98.

    Most Maryland businesses do offer health benefits, but are free not to (except for Wal-Mart of course).

    As a business owner, I can tell you that the 8% number is very low, even for the average business. My employees' health care packages cost about 30% of my payroll.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    strange? i copied and pasted your whole list...didn't you read my entire post? granted i edited it...but i last edited a full 4 min before you replied to it

    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.


    i think politics has a lot to do w/ it's citizens
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,025
    That seems strange since it wasn't the only thing on the list.

    That said, you're correct. I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy.

    What about empathy, or understanding of the near-caste system we have here in the United States. Yes a few poor can make it out, but our class system has never been so strong as it is today, and that's messed up.
  • So why don't you pass a law that forces Wal-Mart to employ everyone?

    why would I do that?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    strange? i copied and pasted your whole list...didn't you read my entire post? granted i edited it...but i last edited a full 4 min before you replied to it

    You pasted the whole list, but then pretended that there was only one item on it in your statment.
    i think politics has a lot to do w/ it's citizens

    Politics has everything to do with it's citizens....all of them. Interesting that you would equate citizens with sympathy and pity.
  • ryan198 wrote:
    What about empathy, or understanding of the near-caste system we have here in the United States. Yes a few poor can make it out, but our class system has never been so strong as it is today, and that's messed up.


    the capitalist system guarantees that only a few can rise above or else it wouldn't work.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • why would I do that?

    You seem to imply that the only thing standing between Wal-Mart employees and starvation is their job at Wal-Mart. Since we can't allow anyone to starve, let's just force Wal-Mart to employ everyone.
  • Politics has everything to do with it's citizens....all of them. Interesting that you would equate citizens with sympathy and pity.

    no, that would be you....we call it justice
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • You seem to imply that the only thing standing between Wal-Mart employees and starvation is their job at Wal-Mart. Since we can't allow anyone to starve, let's just force Wal-Mart to employ everyone.

    go ahead and pretend that there are so many options for these folks...i prefer to work with the reality of a situation. the reality is this system is failing far too many.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,025
    You seem to imply that the only thing standing between Wal-Mart employees and starvation is their job at Wal-Mart. Since we can't allow anyone to starve, let's just force Wal-Mart to employ everyone.
    are you implying that we should let people starve? this goes back to my first question, do you not care about other human beings?
  • ryan198 wrote:
    What about empathy, or understanding of the near-caste system we have here in the United States.

    Empathy I can get on board with. I certainly empathize with Wal-Mart workers. That's why I don't shop at Wal-Mart. That's why I deliberately sought two employees from there.
    Yes a few poor can make it out, but our class system has never been so strong as it is today, and that's messed up.

    This is certainly not true. Our class system is much less strong that it was 150 years ago and 100 years ago and 50 years ago. We have much work to do, but to pretend that 2006 is the strongest point of the American class system is silly. Furthermore, don't you understand that it's laws like this, targetting a subset of the whole, that extend from the logic of classes as castes???
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,025
    go ahead and pretend that there are so many options for these folks...i prefer to work with the reality of a situation. the reality is this system is failing far too many.
    the crazy thing is that this system is failing the poor everywhere...China, Japan, Argentina (twice), Chile, US, Canada, Germany, Great Britain
  • ryan198 wrote:
    are you implying that we should let people starve? this goes back to my first question, do you not care about other human beings?

    No, I'm implying the exact opposite.
  • go ahead and pretend that there are so many options for these folks...i prefer to work with the reality of a situation. the reality is this system is failing far too many.

    Go ahead and pretend this is a response to my statement and/or my question.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    You pasted the whole list, but then pretended that there was only one item on it in your statment.

    i...what? i posted them all but pretened there was only 1....? i didn't post them in the invisible font.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,025
    Empathy I can get on board with. I certainly empathize with Wal-Mart workers. That's why I don't shop at Wal-Mart. That's why I deliberately sought two employees from there.



    This is certainly not true. Our class system is much less strong that it was 150 years ago and 100 years ago and 50 years ago. We have much work to do, but to pretend that 2006 is the strongest point of the American class system is silly. Furthermore, don't you understand that it's laws like this, targetting a subset of the whole, that extend from the logic of classes as castes???

    I'm glad you can afford to not shop at Wal-Mart, not everyone is that lucky.

    The class system is certainly stronger now than it was 30 years ago...there is clear evidence of this (for numbers etc. see: Harvey, 2006; Grossberg, 2005; Giroux, 2005). Yes this law works from that logic, a logic that is in place today, but it at least works to break it down.
  • the capitalist system guarantees that only a few can rise above or else it wouldn't work.

    And what you propose seems to allow no one to rise above.
  • no, that would be you....

    No. I said:

    "I'm not sympathetic. I don't base my political opinions off of pity or sympathy"

    to which your cohort said:

    "i think politics has a lot to do w/ it's citizens"

    Did I misunderstand?
    we call it justice

    You call what justice? Your feelings???
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    ryan198 wrote:
    the crazy thing is that this system is failing the poor everywhere...China, Japan, Argentina (twice), Chile, US, Canada, Germany, Great Britain


    privitization of a country's resources and utilities has failed in every single instance

    we have grown accustomed to our lifestyle which is off the backs of the rest of the world. our consumption is mindblowing in comparison to other countries and that is unsustainable
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,025
    And what you propose seems to allow no one to rise above.
    it's not that no one can rise above, but i think there is a such thing as too much...ideally we'd all start as children at $0 and earn everything we get, and then our children would start at $0. This way schooling, standards of living, etc. would exactly be a result of what the individual did during their life.
  • ryan198 wrote:
    I'm glad you can afford to not shop at Wal-Mart, not everyone is that lucky.

    I'm not lucky. I earned what I have.
    The class system is certainly stronger now than it was 30 years ago...

    Perhaps, though I think many African Americans and many women would certainly disagree with you.
    there is clear evidence of this (for numbers etc. see: Harvey, 2006; Grossberg, 2005; Giroux, 2005). Yes this law works from that logic, a logic that is in place today, but it at least works to break it down.

    You cannot break down something by resorting to its tactics. You can't make peace with bombs.
  • Go ahead and pretend this is a response to my statement and/or my question.

    i'm not going to bother answering ridiculous questions.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    ryan198 wrote:
    I'm glad you can afford to not shop at Wal-Mart, not everyone is that lucky.

    The class system is certainly stronger now than it was 30 years ago...there is clear evidence of this (for numbers etc. see: Harvey, 2006; Grossberg, 2005; Giroux, 2005). Yes this law works from that logic, a logic that is in place today, but it at least works to break it down.
    Sorry but everyone can afford to not shop at Wal-Mart. My morals and principals are not for sale. Shopping at Wal-Mart only buys misery for others.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • And what you propose seems to allow no one to rise above.

    I disagree...more opportunies can equal more sucess.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ryan198 wrote:
    it's not that no one can rise above, but i think there is a such thing as too much...ideally we'd all start as children at $0 and earn everything we get, and then our children would start at $0. This way schooling, standards of living, etc. would exactly be a result of what the individual did during their life.

    Ok! Now, how does the state targeting a single corporation, a single set of consumers, a single set of employees fit into this picture where everything is earned???? What did the benefactors of this policy do to earn the right to rob Wal-Mart alone?
  • I disagree...more opportunies can equal more sucess.

    Ah...more opportunities for employment you mean? How many companies do you think will beating down Maryland's door to get in with laws like this in place?
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