How not to end terrorism-Kill civilians...

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

And to answer your question, I wouldn't support any army that KNOWINGLY killed civilians on purpose. I would raise the question as to why some one here in the states would expose women and children to combat just to sacrifice them for public support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOAC

I got to get to bed, you can call me names later

Have a good night

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Its true, they don't value life like the west. Try to convince them of that. Ask any vet who has been there and worked with them and they will tell you the same. Infact, if you have ever been out side North America and Europe you will see that the rest of the world doesn't value life like we do. Its nothing for someone to die in countries that have a low standard of living. They are human, they face reality, if you seen how it works you would understand.

You have a real bad habbit of turning facts around and putting words in people's mouths. You've done it to me, and done to other people on this board. Don't call me a racist.

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Look, I know none of you agree with me and thats fine. But I can tell you this much, the rest of the world doesn't value life the way we do here in the west. Its not meant to be racist, its not meant to say they are any less valuable as people. You have to understand that we live a privileged life here in North America and Europe. Anyone who has been to parts of the world that the quality of life is poor will see this. Most of the world has it really hard compared to us, and death is much more of a daily reality then it is for us, and I'm just talking about places that are not at conflict.

I'm just telling you what people very close to me said this from their years of experience there. I know them very well and can tell you that they are compassionate people that want to do the right thing. And this is just their opinion on what they have seen while being there. As for the military standpoint of things, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. All you get fed is what the news wants to tell you, and what you friends pass along in conversation.

This isn't going away, and putting our heads in the sand to avoid a conflict will just repeat history. I know most of you want the world to get along and throw down or weapons....well once again, if you left the west you can see that the rest of the world has no intention of peace anytime soon. Leaving Iraq and Afghanistan will lead to an even horrible situation where we will be forced to comeback a couple of years later. They have been fight among themselves for hundreds of years, never mind the British, Russians, and now us. When we invaded the country back in 01, the "Northern Alliance" was too busy fighting each other to really be effective in fighting the Taliban.

Using their own people like this is how they fight, they know it will divide us at home. The VC did it in Vietnam, and it lead to our eventual with draw. I don't want to kill civilians and neither does anyone I have worked with. You have been brain washed to think we are all baby killers with some kind of agenda, and frankly its easy to blame us because you're scared to think that the rest of the world doesn't share your vision, and your reality is in question when no one wants to put down their weapons any time soon. Go to these places offering peace and tell me if you will be greeted with open arms? Why do they, not just in the Middle East, do people kill their own in the name of religion or some brutal dictator? Why do tribes in Africa go around hacking off limbs of their own countrymen? The reality is that most of the world is savage, and they don't share a western vision, and you can't make them assimilate, and you sure can't make them stop. For some, its apart of their culture.

I know most of you hate our government and the military for whats happen, but you need some one to blame being that you have no concept of how this works.

But what do I know, I hope I'm wrong; I like you vision on things a lot more than mine

The Associated Press released an interesting set of statistics (host link stored for future ref) a couple of days ago that I would suppose were designed to suck away any optimism any fools who still support the mission in Iraq might have (bolds are mine):

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Government officials on Monday reported that 16,273 Iraqi civilians, soldiers and police died violent deaths in 2006, a figure larger than an independent Associated Press count for the year by more than 2,500.

The tabulation by the Iraqi ministries of Health, Defense and Interior, showed that 14,298 civilians, 1,348 police and 627 soldiers were killed in the violence that raged in the country last year.

The Associated Press accounting, gleaned from daily news reports from Baghdad, arrived at a total of 13,738 deaths.


Pretty grim, isn't it? And this is for "violence that raged in the (whole) country."

Man, what a downer. I mean, this is an honest-to-goodness Grade A bona fide quagmire.

Oops -- I started digging into US murder statistics, and what I found made me less depressed about Iraq, and more concerned about the US.

Cosmo wrote:

...
Well.. how about we give them uniforms and jets and tanks and warships to make it a 'Fair Fight', so they don't resort to Neolithic means of warfare... would that be better?
And i don't know about 'Honor Killings'... but beheading is punishment... the same as the Death Penalty, here. you may believe that a Lethal Injection is more humane than a beheading... but, don't both end up the same? (And... beheading is not just a terrorist ploy... it is used as a form of Capital Punishment in some countries, too... along with that Biblical favorite... stoning to death).

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

So Nick Berg's beheading was legit? If you remeber Iraq did start out with Russian tanks and uniforms.

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Look, I know none of you agree with me and thats fine. But I can tell you this much, the rest of the world doesn't value life the way we do here in the west. Its not meant to be racist, its not meant to say they are any less valuable as people. You have to understand that we live a privileged life here in North America and Europe. Anyone who has been to parts of the world that the quality of life is poor will see this. Most of the world has it really hard compared to us, and death is much more of a daily reality then it is for us, and I'm just talking about places that are not at conflict.

I'm just telling you what people very close to me said this from their years of experience there. I know them very well and can tell you that they are compassionate people that want to do the right thing. And this is just their opinion on what they have seen while being there. As for the military standpoint of things, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. All you get fed is what the news wants to tell you, and what you friends pass along in conversation.

This isn't going away, and putting our heads in the sand to avoid a conflict will just repeat history. I know most of you want the world to get along and throw down or weapons....well once again, if you left the west you can see that the rest of the world has no intention of peace anytime soon. Leaving Iraq and Afghanistan will lead to an even horrible situation where we will be forced to comeback a couple of years later. They have been fight among themselves for hundreds of years, never mind the British, Russians, and now us. When we invaded the country back in 01, the "Northern Alliance" was too busy fighting each other to really be effective in fighting the Taliban.

Using their own people like this is how they fight, they know it will divide us at home. The VC did it in Vietnam, and it lead to our eventual with draw. I don't want to kill civilians and neither does anyone I have worked with. You have been brain washed to think we are all baby killers with some kind of agenda, and frankly its easy to blame us because you're scared to think that the rest of the world doesn't share your vision, and your reality is in question when no one wants to put down their weapons any time soon. Go to these places offering peace and tell me if you will be greeted with open arms? Why do they, not just in the Middle East, do people kill their own in the name of religion or some brutal dictator? Why do tribes in Africa go around hacking off limbs of their own countrymen? The reality is that most of the world is savage, and they don't share a western vision, and you can't make them assimilate, and you sure can't make them stop. For some, its apart of their culture.

I know most of you hate our government and the military for whats happen, but you need some one to blame being that you have no concept of how this works.

But what do I know, I hope I'm wrong; I like you vision on things a lot more than mine

Collin wrote:

I think the US definitely targets civilians. You read about it in the papers weekly or even daily. It's the same in every war. So you'd think they'd know by now that they are murdering people by their actions. But they don't, they continue and innocent people continue to die.

I'd like to see how you'd feel about this if was happening in the US. Ah, yes... the Western world values life more. Total bullshit buddy, I know plenty of people who have been outside the Western world, who lived there or still live there - several members of my family, for example. They all greatly disagree with this.

If police fought crime as recklessly as the military fights "terrorism" and their victims were innocent American families... I doubt excuses as "no one in the police wants to kill innocent peope" will do, or "you don't understand the nature of things."

I do understand. I understand that if your military methods and tactics repeatedly kill innocent people, there is something wrong with them. Saying it's "unintentional" doesn't excuse those murders.