Carter and Hamas

reborncareerist wrote:

Before someone else has a temper tantrum, let me add that I agree that Israeli expansion needs to stop. Its not just Israel reacting. Aggressive military forays and settlement expansion are a huge part of the problem as well.

Israel holds all the cards. The occupation is the problem.

reborncareerist wrote:

Don't start acting like a fuckhead just because someone else got you all riled up, pal ... I am not ignoring the goddamn facts ... Truth of the matter is that both sides have broken tons of ceasefires. Post your links, I've probably seen them already.

I pointed out in a previous post above that Israel has consistently ignored ceasefires and continued it's attacks inside the West banck and Gaza. You chose to ignore my point and then repeat yourself. And you wonder why I reacted angrily?

reborncareerist wrote:

Excect no, they don't hold all the cards. If they really did put down their hand, completely, would Hamas disband and go back to being peaceloving farmers? Its a nice thought, to be sure.
My point is that Israel is going to keep menacing Palestine for as long as terrorist groups exist there. Israel may ultimately have to take the first steps here, but I do not see how there can be an ultimate resolution as long as Palestinians cannot accept a Jewish state in their midst.

'Terrorist' groups - or those who seek to defend themselves - will continue to exist there for as long as the occupation, Israeli terrorism, and illegal settlement building continue.
As far as what Hamas, or anyone else would do once Israel pulls back to the 67 borders is anyone's guess, and so at the moment is completey irrelevant. If Israel ever did pull back and attacks from Palestinians continued, then you could take the moral high ground. Presently, however, Israel hasn't abided by international law and continues to be in breach of of over 60 U.N resolutions. Again, it holds all the cards.

reborncareerist wrote:

Do I have to spell it out every time for you guys? There is a difference between military responses to terrorism and deliberately targeting civilians, and Israel does less of the latter than Hamas does. That being said, heavy-handed military reprisals on poor Palestinian neighborhoods does nothing to help Israel and an awful lot to help Hamas, a point that the Israels cannot or will not grasp. So yes. .. Israel reactions need to change, as much as the terrorism does.

24 November 2006
Israel rejects ceasefire proposal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6179588.stm

'Israel has in the past consistently rejected ceasefire offers by Palestinian militants, saying it refuses to do deals of any kind with what it describes as terrorist organisations'.

Friday April 25 2008
Israel rejects Gaza ceasefire
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/25/israelandthepalestinians?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/
The “Intifada”
Living under such hardship and humiliation, in the year 2000 the Palestinian population began an uprising against Israeli rule called the “Intifada.” This term – rarely translated in the American media – is simply the Arabic word for uprising or rebellion – literally, it means “shaking off.” The American Revolutionary War, for example, would be called the American intifada against Britain.

This is the second such uprising. The first began in 1986 and ended in 1993 when the peace negotiations offered hopes of justice. (Sadly, in the following years these hopes were crushed after Israel, rather than withdrawing from the West Bank and Gaza, as promised, actually doubled its expansion in these areas.)

During this first uprising, which consisted largely of Palestinians throwing stones at Israeli troops (very few Palestinians had weapons), Palestinians were killed at a rate approximately 7-10 times that of Israelis.

One of the ways Israeli forces attempted to put down this rebellion was through the “break the bones” policy, implemented by Yitzhak Rabin, in which people who had been throwing stones – often youths – were held down and their arms broken. On the first day of this policy alone, one hospital in Gaza treated 200 People for fractures.1

Today’s uprising – termed the “Second Intifada” – was sparked when an Israeli general, Ariel Sharon, known for his slaughter of Palestinian civilians throughout his career, visited a Jerusalem holy site, accompanied by over a thousand armed Israeli soldiers. When some Palestinian youths threw stones, Israeli soldiers responded with live gunfire, killing 5 the first day, and 10 the second.

This uprising has now continued for over five years, as Israel periodically mounts massive invasions into Palestinian communities, using tanks, helicopter gunships, and F-16 fighter jets. Palestinian fighters resisting these forces possess rifles and homemade mortars and rockets. A minute fraction strap explosives onto their own bodies and attempt to deliver their bombs in person; often they kill only themselves.

While the large majority of Palestinians oppose suicide bombings, many feel that armed resistance has become necessary – much as Americans supported war after the attack at Pearl Harbor. Nevertheless, only a small portion take an active part in the resistance, despite the fact that virtually all support its aim: to create a nation free from foreign oppression.

Most Palestinians attempt – with greater or lesser success – to go on with their lives, raise their children, attend school, go to work, celebrate festivals, organize weddings, raise their crops, provide for their families – all the things that preoccupy people around the world.

As Israel constructs a wall around them, however, prevents them at checkpoints from traveling from town to town, destroys their crops, prevents children from traveling to schools and the sick and injured from getting to the hospitals, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live even an approximation of a normal life.

Most Palestinians feel that the Israeli government’s intention is to drive them off the land, and there is a great deal of evidence that this is the goal of many Israeli leaders.

At the same time, however, there is a small but determined minority of Israelis, joined by citizens from throughout the world, who are coming to the Palestinian Territories to oppose Israeli occupation. These “internationals,” as they are often called, take part in peaceful marches, attempt to help Palestinian farmers harvest their crops despite Israeli military closures, live in refugee camps in the hope that their presence will prevent Israeli invasions and shelling, and walk children to school.

They are sometimes beaten, shot, and killed.

Some Israeli soldiers are refusing to serve in the West Bank or Gaza, stating: “We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.”

Meanwhile, the semblance of Palestinian autonomy continues. Elections held in January, 2005, resulted in new Palestinian leadership that will govern under occupation and will attempt to negotiate eventual Palestinian liberation. Yet even this election demonstrated Israel’s power, as various Palestinian candidates were arrested, detained, and sometimes beaten by Israeli forces. This aspect, however, like so much else, was rarely reported by the American media.

reborncareerist wrote:

Well, I wasn't ignoring your post at all, unless you define ignoring as not prefacing every single thing I say with the caveat "But please refer to Byrnzie's earlier post".
At no point did I state that everything Israel does is reactionary ... But attacks on Hamas, like I DID say, are such. Shoot a rocket into Israel, get a Hellfire missile in return.

O.k. Fair enough. Although your previous posts did point at Israeli terror being simply the reactions of a party under attack. This is the standard position of most mainstream media in Britain and the U.S - that Israel is the innocent victim. This just isn't the case, as anybody who looks at the facts can see.

http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2002/0210unres.html
United Nations Security Council Resolutions Currently Being Violated by Countries Other than Iraq
By Stephen Zunes
October 2, 2002
(updated February 28, 2003)


Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency.

497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syrian Golan region.

573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations.

592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.

672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

694 (1991) Israel
Reiterates that Israel "must refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported."

726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."

1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/un.html
Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none.


http://www.geocities.com/savepalestinenow/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil3i.htm
'Israeli Violations of International Law - (9) Israel has violated 28 resolutions of the United Nations Security Council (which are legally binding on member-nations), and almost 100 resolutions of the United Nations General Assembly (which are not binding, but represent the will and understanding of the international community). And Israel is now in violation of the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice of 2004, condemning the separation wall Israel is building throughout the occupied West Bank. ISRAELI VIOLATION: HISTORY & THEORY

The Charter of the United Nations describes the mission of the UN to protect world peace, and the human rights and self-determination of its inhabitants, and to foster cooperation amongst all nations to the benefit of everyone..

The Charter assigns implementation of this mission primarily to the Security Council, in cooperation with the General Assembly and the other four organs of the UN.

The UN Security Council has passed a large number of resolutions condemning Israel for its actions in the Middle East and against the Palestinian people and surrounding nations. The General Assembly has passed over 100 resolutions condemning Israeli actions and policies. In addition, the International Court of Justice has ruled that the wall that Israel is building through the occupied Palestinian territories substantially violates the human rights of the Palestinian people and needs to be torn down immediately, and the people affected must be compensated for their losses.

Israel has ignored all of the resolutions of the Security Council, which is a violation of the Charter, and by extension, international law. And it has also ignored all of the resolutions of the General Assembly and the Advisory Opinion of the International Court.

In addition, it is important to note that in support of Israel, the United States has exercised its veto power in the Security Council to cancel out many other resolutions that were otherwise passed unanimously or by the vaste majority of its members'.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vpG6GIjwUQQ&feature=related