Will there ever be another Biggest Band in the World?

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  • LONGRD
    LONGRD Posts: 6,036
    MLC2006 wrote:

    after Metallica and Nirvana, PJ were #3. you can say that PJ sold more albums or whatever, but I'm telling you they weren't as popular at Metallica or Nirvana. Hootie and the Blowfish sold more than all of them, but they weren't as universally "popular". PJ just had staying power that ran through the 90s. they weren't played nearly as much on mtv as Nirvana or Metallica either.

    That's because PJ stopped making music videos! :p
    PJ- 04/29/2003.06/24,25,27,28,30/2008.10/27,28,30,31/2009
    EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Odin wrote:
    Actually, Get_Right, I'll be overseas all summer and unfortunately none of Metallica's European dates coincide with my personal itinerary.

    And if that punk-ass bitch Jeremy1012 wants to talk shit, he can do it to my 6'3, 225-lb self next month because I will be in his hometown for a few days. We'll see how insulting he is to me when faced with the threat of being knocked the fuck out and pummeled to the ground!!!!!!!!!!

    Pretty much sums you up dude. And you were the one who started throwing the insults around like some pathetic 12 year old in the school yard. Who fucking uses 'fag' as an insult these days anyway? Oh that's right, homophobic morons who run out of wikipedia citations as 'proof'.

    For the record, I'm well old enough to have lived through that time, and I can tell you categorically that Nirvana were perceived as a bigger band over here in the UK than both Metallica and Pearl Jam. And yeah the chances of hearing much Metallica on mainstream radio is somewhere near zero, whereas you would quite easily get the odd Nirvana track.

    You might think that a few months wouldn't make a difference in Nirvana and Pearl Jam's success, but we are talking the best part of a year, a lot can happen in that time, and Nirvana's success came first - dispute it all you like, but that it FACT. Without that initial success, there were no guarantees that any of the other Seattle bands would have got the attention they received.

    You must have been in a metal-induced haze if you didn't see the cultural impact they had at the time. Kurt Cobain was a new breed of rockstar. A depressive, intense and thought-provoking guy who flew in the face of what was expected from rock stars. His lyrics about depression, isolation and disaffection, married to pop melodies was something new that the mainstream had not heard.

    Like I said, your argument is based on record sales alone. Ignoring the cultural impact of a band is ridiculous. One last comparison, Amy Winehouse is probably one of the biggest artists in the world right now including in America, and yet her sales would pale in comparison to people like Nickelback or Daughtry or any of the other multi-million sellers. But she is a cultural icon, she inspires fashion, and has remained in the mainstream consciousness becasue of her erratic and destructive behaviour - in much the same way that Kurt did.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Odin wrote:
    Actually, Get_Right, I'll be overseas all summer and unfortunately none of Metallica's European dates coincide with my personal itinerary.

    And if that punk-ass bitch Jeremy1012 wants to talk shit, he can do it to my 6'3, 225-lb self next month because I will be in his hometown for a few days. We'll see how insulting he is to me when faced with the threat of being knocked the fuck out and pummeled to the ground!!!!!!!!!!
    You're one of the most moronic people I have ever had the displeasure to come across on this board. I mean, the pathetic attitude is one thing but threats of physical violence, far from scaring me, which clearly you are intending Mr-225lb, actually just made me laugh out loud. Maybe piss off, leave the site for a while, do some growing up, come back and re-read this post and if you don't feel the slightest shame, I'll feel very sorry for you.

    Also, do you not see the slight hypocrisy in threatening to beat my ass for being "insulting" to you when you call me a punk-ass bitch in the same post? You're clearly not big on logic, or indeed acting like an ordinary human being so I figure that this reply will be lost on you but think it through mate, after all, I know that I'd get pretty riled up by some "punk-ass" 19 year-old patronising me and not being remotely moved by the threats of violence from my 225lb hulking, rock hard self.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    facepollution wrote:
    Like I said, your argument is based on record sales alone. Ignoring the cultural impact of a band is ridiculous. One last comparison, Amy Winehouse is probably one of the biggest artists in the world right now including in America, and yet her sales would pale in comparison to people like Nickelback or Daughtry or any of the other multi-million sellers. But she is a cultural icon, she inspires fashion, and has remained in the mainstream consciousness becasue of her erratic and destructive behaviour - in much the same way that Kurt did.
    I don't think I have ever been in such perfect agreement with you :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    Facepollution, you are absolutely right about Amy Winehouse's extracurricular problems contributing to her being so well-known. But I would contend that Daughtry is more of a cultural icon because he was a contestant on American Idol, a program that has been a staple of contemporary culture thus far in the 21st Century.

    Tell me where I ever stated that Nirvana wasn't groundbreaking? But does that make them the best band in the world for a long enough period of time to warrant consideration on this thread? No, not when other bands such as Pearl Jam were experiencing equal (or in some people's minds, GREATER) success shortly thereafter. Some people would contend that without Buddy Holly's success, a little-known band called The Beatles wouldn't have had a chance to become the musical and cultural phenomenon that they became; the same could be said about the commercial success of some of Elvis' immediate predecessors. Does that mean that we should strip their titles of "world's greatest band", which they both held unlike Nirvana who was only ONE of the most popular bands of their time and couldn't be said to be the WGB with absolute certainty?

    Thank you g under p and MLC2006 for providing some actual insight, which is more than some people have contributed.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Odin wrote:
    Thank you g under p and MLC2006 for providing some actual insight, which is more than some people have contributed.
    Ohhh, you were providing INSIGHT? I thought you were being a macho asshole.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    You're one of the most moronic people I have ever had the displeasure to come across on this board. I mean, the pathetic attitude is one thing but threats of physical violence, far from scaring me, which clearly you are intending Mr-225lb, actually just made me laugh out loud. Maybe piss off, leave the site for a while, do some growing up, come back and re-read this post and if you don't feel the slightest shame, I'll feel very sorry for you.

    Also, do you not see the slight hypocrisy in threatening to beat my ass for being "insulting" to you when you call me a punk-ass bitch in the same post? You're clearly not big on logic, or indeed acting like an ordinary human being so I figure that this reply will be lost on you but think it through mate, after all, I know that I'd get pretty riled up by some "punk-ass" 19 year-old patronising me and not being remotely moved by the threats of violence from my 225lb hulking, rock hard self.

    Ever hear of the phrase "fighting fire with fire"? That's exactly what I'm doing in response to your worthless contributions to this discussion. You have proven time and again that you have absolutely nothing substantial to contribute. g under p and MLC2006 have, in a single post, provided more insight than you have on ten pages.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Odin wrote:
    Ever hear of the phrase "fighting fire with fire"? That's exactly what I'm doing in response to your worthless contributions to this discussion. You have proven time and again that you have absolutely nothing substantial to contribute. g under p and MLC2006 have, in a single post, provided more insight than you have on ten pages.
    I would argue that insight is subjective. I've provided a lot of insight into you and, subsequently, your opinions. Let's be honest, if mine are irrelevant because I'm not 19 and I'm not with the All Music Guide, one could argue that yours are not relevent because a violent misanthrope, prone to coarse outburts when he isn't getting his own way, is probably not a good authority in judging any sort of cultural atmosphere, given that his grip on social understanding is weak at best?
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I would argue that insight is subjective. I've provided a lot of insight into you and, subsequently, your opinions. Let's be honest, if mine are irrelevant because I'm not 19 and I'm not with the All Music Guide, one could argue that yours are not relevent because a violent misanthrope, prone to coarse outburts when he isn't getting his own way, is probably not a good authority in judging any sort of cultural atmosphere, given that his grip on social understanding is weak at best?

    And I could similarly try to discredit YOU by posting a history of your going against me at any given chance, which impairs your objectivity. But it wouldn't be worth my time, as you haven't provided any real insight other than your assessment of Nirvana's cultural impact AFTER Kurt Cobain's death (you obviously couldn't be able to gauge Nirvana's popularity at the height of their career because you weren't old enough at the time).
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Odin wrote:
    And I could similarly try to discredit YOU by posting a history of your going against me at any given chance, which impairs your objectivity. But it wouldn't be worth my time, as you haven't provided any real insight other than your assessment of Nirvana's cultural impact AFTER Kurt Cobain's death (you obviously couldn't be able to gauge Nirvana's popularity at the height of their career because you weren't old enough at the time).
    That is the first intelligent, not unnecessarily offensive thing you have posted in response to me in this thread, for which I thank you and will do the same. I'm only sorry that you don't think my opinions are worth anything. You'll understand if I don't stay out of every thread you are in just because I wasn't born early enough though. There are no such rules on this site and, after all, not being old enough to have experience the music scene at the time, I am unbiased and, I would argue, have provided a valuable insight into the LASTING effects of both Nirvana and Metallica without having any kind of "I was a metallica fan at the time and they were the biggest" bias. All I have said through this thread is that, far from me caring about which was bigger, it is totally obvious to me that Nirvana are the band that have had the biggest impact on the world, regardless of record sales and I am pretty sure that this was the case in 1991, as many posters here who were listening to the bands at the time have agreed. Sorry that you don't think my opinions are up to much but hey, we can't please everyone. As for going at you at any given chance, I wasn't the person who started the aggressive responses in this thread.

    But anyway, nevermind. There's no point in arguing any further because it's just stupid.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    You'll understand if I don't stay out of every thread you are in just because I wasn't born early enough though.

    It's one thing to post your opinions on an album that was released before your time; it's another to state adamantly that Metallica wasn't quite as popular as Nirvana when you didn't have a chance to experience either band at the height of their popularity.
    There are no such rules on this site and, after all, not being old enough to have experience the music scene at the time, I am unbiased and, I would argue, have provided a valuable insight into the LASTING effects of both Nirvana and Metallica without having any kind of "I was a metallica fan at the time and they were the biggest" bias. All I have said through this thread is that, far from me caring about which was bigger, it is totally obvious to me that Nirvana are the band that have had the biggest impact on the world, regardless of record sales

    We are not debating lasting effects. At least I wasn't. This is a topic about the world's most popular band during a particular period in music history.
    and I am pretty sure that this was the case in 1991, as many posters here who were listening to the bands at the time have agreed.

    And many have DISAGREED, on this BBS and elsewhere. You simply cannot put Nirvana in the same class as The Beatles and Elvis with regards to their worldwide popularity relative to their contemporaries. That is the point that I have been trying to make all along.
    Sorry that you don't think my opinions are up to much but hey, we can't please everyone. As for going at you at any given chance, I wasn't the person who started the aggressive responses in this thread.

    But anyway, nevermind. There's no point in arguing any further because it's just stupid.

    Thank you, and good riddance! Your withdrawal from this discussion will leave more room for people who would rather discuss the issue at hand than launch personal vendettas against other users.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Odin wrote:
    Thank you, and good riddance! Your withdrawal from this discussion will leave more room for people who would rather discuss the issue at hand than launch his personal vendetta against other users.

    Mr Pot: "Hey, there, Mr. Kettle. Looking very black today."
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    Odin wrote:
    Actually, Get_Right, I'll be overseas all summer and unfortunately none of Metallica's European dates coincide with my personal itinerary.

    And if that punk-ass bitch Jeremy1012 wants to talk shit, he can do it to my 6'3, 225-lb self next month because I will be in his hometown for a few days. We'll see how insulting he is to me when faced with the threat of being knocked the fuck out and pummeled to the ground!!!!!!!!!!

    On the computer we are ALL big fierce people cause nobody would suspect that I'm a black guy 6-1 255 lbs!....And I truly am in my 40's too!

    Peace everybody
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    g under p wrote:
    On the computer we are ALL big fierce people cause nobody would suspect that I'm a black guy 6-1 255 lbs!....And I truly am in my 40's too!

    Peace everybody

    I brought that up because nobody in real life dares to say the type of things that are said to me here and on other online communities......because there would be consequences if someone were to call me an "unintelligent prick" to my face.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Odin wrote:
    I brought that up because nobody in real life dares to say the type of things that are said to me here and on other online communities......because there would be consequences if someone were to call me an "unintelligent prick" to my face.

    So why not try bullying teenagers in real life, if it's so much more satisfying? If you can't argue your points without intimidating people, it's not much of an argument in the first place.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    I do think some are underrating the level of Nirvana's popularity. yes, they may have obtained "legendary" status when Cobain killed himself. but they WERE a hugely popular band when he was alive, about equal to Metallica, and more popular than the other "grunge" bands. Nirvana, and PJ to a much lesser extent, even had "fan magazines" that were being printed only about them. I distinctly remember this because I actually had a couple of those magazines at some point. when Cobain, Vedder, and Stone Gossard got haircuts it MADE THE NEWS, at least the entertainment news. when Cobain had a near overdose in Rome, it was HUGE news. so it is completely false to say that Nirvana only got a big level of success after he died.

    now, I also think Nirvana too often gets sole credit of killing "hair metal" and that's not completely true either. people were already getting tired of hair metal. between 88-90, Metallica and GnR were seen in stark contrast to hair metal. also around 88-89, Aerosmith released their big comeback album, "Pump". then, around 90-91, AC/DC released their big comeback album "Razor's Edge". the Aerosmith and AC/DC albums, coupled with GnR's success and Metallica's somewhat massive underground appeal spelled a return to more 'normal' rock and away from the hairspray and makeup...all these things were the first nails in the hair metal coffin. Nirvana was the final nail
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    So why not try bullying teenagers in real life, if it's so much more satisfying? If you can't argue your points without intimidating people, it's not much of an argument in the first place.

    Our debate escalated to the point of hurling insults. I was simply fighting fire with fire last evening.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Odin wrote:
    Our debate escalated to the point of hurling insults. I was simply fighting fire with fire last evening.

    Right. More like Jeremy waving a lighter around, and you exploding a methane gas tank. And as for the "me big man, me hurt small boy" act...:rolleyes:
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Odin
    Odin Posts: 599
    MLC2006 wrote:
    I do think some are underrating the level of Nirvana's popularity. yes, they may have obtained "legendary" status when Cobain killed himself. but they WERE a hugely popular band when he was alive, about equal to Metallica, and more popular than the other "grunge" bands.

    I never once disputed the fact that Nirvana was very popular, even before Cobain's death. Still, they never held the title of "world's most popular band" long enough to be considered in this discussion.
    Nirvana, and PJ to a much lesser extent, even had "fan magazines" that were being printed only about them.

    .....as did many heavy metal bands of the late-1980s and early-1990s. Some of those bands, which faded into obscurity during the 1990s, even had trading cards devoted to them. I know because I used to collect them as a kid.
    when Cobain, Vedder, and Stone Gossard got haircuts it MADE THE NEWS, at least the entertainment news. when Cobain had a near overdose in Rome, it was HUGE news. so it is completely false to say that Nirvana only got a big level of success after he died.

    When Tommy Lee took a shit, it made the news. Nikki Sixx was interviewed several times on Jim Rome's SPORTS program. Does that mean that Motley Crue, which indeed were a popular band, were Beatle-like icons worldwide?
    now, I also think Nirvana too often gets sole credit of killing "hair metal" and that's not completely true either. people were already getting tired of hair metal. between 88-90, Metallica and GnR were seen in stark contrast to hair metal. also around 88-89, Aerosmith released their big comeback album, "Pump". then, around 90-91, AC/DC released their big comeback album "Razor's Edge". the Aerosmith and AC/DC albums, coupled with GnR's success and Metallica's somewhat massive underground appeal spelled a return to more 'normal' rock and away from the hairspray and makeup

    That part I will agree with.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Odin wrote:
    Actually, Get_Right, I'll be overseas all summer and unfortunately none of Metallica's European dates coincide with my personal itinerary.

    And if that punk-ass bitch Jeremy1012 wants to talk shit, he can do it to my 6'3, 225-lb self next month because I will be in his hometown for a few days. We'll see how insulting he is to me when faced with the threat of being knocked the fuck out and pummeled to the ground!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm still laughing at this post. It's like a 6'3, 225-lb baby throwing a tantrum.:D
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.

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