Ed quote from 2005 - Target related

Wolf At Bay

Mortality wrote:

This isnt going to change the opinion of the die hard believers that Pearl Jam has sold out. Nothing will. I just feel bad for them for not realizing PJ sold out the day they taped the Jeremy video. There is no turning back.

They try to do things to counter-act the BS of mainstream music, but they are mainstream music. Why do you want them to sabotage themselves? This is not for you, its for them. This is what they want to do. I hold them to the standard of doing what they want to do, not what I want them to do. That is the integrity I judge them on.

I have to say, even though I'm on the other side of this argument I like what you said about how you judge their integrity. Always good to hear some valid thoughts coming from the opposition in a debate. You and Kelly Curtis have helped temper my initial indignation.

norm

what part of this is hard to understand?

we're choosing who we want to be partners with. Who will allow us the freedom to pick the kind of people we want to work with? Target was the only one out of all those [big chain] guys that was forward-enough thinking to allow us to think outside the box." Along with making the record available at small independent retailers, Curtis also hints at a cell-phone partnership, and says some green and charity initiatives are in the works.

Fahka

OGT92 wrote:

breath123 wrote:

i really don't get why people are freaking out over this.

People = shit....

At least target isn't as packed as the hell trap that is walmart...

Jeanwah

This is the thing that gets me. Kelly Curtis wants to talk about getting the music into the hands of all genres, through all media vehicles, through all sorts of retailers...

Then explain what PJ were trying to do with the No Code, Yield and Binaural albums. They were NOT out to spread their music to the masses, they were expressing and experimenting as artists and were damn comfortable doing it. SALES didn't mean shit to PJ at the time, but all of a sudden! PJ wants everyone everywhere to hear them! It's like they're saying "we're still here! Listen to us, because we need to appeal to new music listeners!" Not the "I'm an artist, you can listen if you want". This new attitude was on the Avocado album too. It's like they've evolved into being a business trying to get customers, rather than art buyers. I'm sadly disappointed in their new "partnerships".

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

This is the thing that gets me. Kelly Curtis wants to talk about getting the music into the hands of all genres, through all media vehicles, through all sorts of retailers...

Then explain what PJ were trying to do with the No Code, Yield and Binaural albums. They were NOT out to spread their music to the masses, they were expressing and experimenting as artists and were damn comfortable doing it. SALES didn't mean shit to PJ at the time, but all of a sudden! PJ wants everyone everywhere to hear them! It's like they're saying "we're still here! Listen to us, because we need to appeal to new music listeners!" Not the "I'm an artist, you can listen if you want". This new attitude was on the Avocado album too. It's like they've evolved into being a business trying to get customers, rather than art buyers. I'm sadly disappointed in their new "partnerships".

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s. It wasn't because they didn't want people to hear their music. It was because they just didn't want to be the biggest band in the world. They wanted to keep some of their identity. They wanted to stay at a manageable level ... ie, the level they are at now.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

embrace

homeward angel wrote:

I don't care if Pearl Jam ties in with Target. I hope there's a skit on SNL where the Target lady makes a joke about a customer buying a Pearl Jam cd. I didn't get upset when a certain someone hooked up with a model AFTER the Satan's Bed lyrics were locked in my head because I know that in real life love has nothing to do with "principles" or ideals. I don't care that Yellow Ledbetter played at the end of Friends. I care about the music, the shows, and the good times I've had over the past 17+ years as a fan and Ten Club member. I DO care that a man was murdered in his church by a domestic terrorist. I care that my mom can barely survive on Social Security after working her ass off most of her life. I care that there is real greed (Dick Cheney) and real suffering (The Congo, Darfur, I could go on)in this world. Get over it, people.

Communicated beautifully !

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

I understand why they pulled back in the '90s. But with the success they've received during their 20 year tenure, I refuse to buy the fact that they need money from album sales to support themselves. That's what touring is for. This band could solely do what the Grateful Dead has successfully done...never have a commercially successful album, and still be well-off. They're running a business, or rather, they're letting Kelly run the business, and they're fully on board. For whatever reason. But all these excuses "the music industry has changed", or "the internet is changing the music scene" is not it. They're already successful WITHOUT any corporate sponsors involved. In fact, they could give away their new album for FREE to all of us TC members and you can imagine the free publicity that would bring the band, not to mention even more success without the green disease.

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s. It wasn't because they didn't want people to hear their music. It was because they just didn't want to be the biggest band in the world. They wanted to keep some of their identity. They wanted to stay at a manageable level ... ie, the level they are at now.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

I understand why they pulled back in the '90s. But with the success they've received during their 20 year tenure, I refuse to buy the fact that they need money from album sales to support themselves. That's what touring is for. This band could solely do what the Grateful Dead has successfully done...never have a commercially successful album, and still be well-off. I don't buy it. They're running a business, or rather, they're letting Kelly run the business, and they're fully on board. For whatever reason. But all these excuses "the music industry has changed", or "the internet is changing the music scene" is not it. They're already successful WITHOUT any corporate sponsors involved.

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

soulsinging

touringfan wrote:

This was a quote from 05 but it sums up the Target situation nicely. I for one agree with him 100% and don't fault them one bit for "mixing it up" a bit. For those crying about the Target thing read this and see where the band is coming from before you get all worked up over something so Inconsequential.

"Vedder: "What's happening is that this is the level of mainstream. If you're going to participate in the mainstream or compete with the amount of stuff that's out there, the bar gets raised. Now, it's not even about getting your video played. It's actually about getting a commercial when the record comes out."

Vedder: "I would rather that loads of people - including young women - heard your song through an iPod commercial, and then bought your record and be changed and affected by it - which they would be - as opposed to, say, a reality show."

Didn't know Ed was so concerned with young women hearing their music

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

Ahem, the band has always been anti-corporate, number one. Yeah, they had Sony, but the minute they get rid of them, in walks a new corporate sponsor: Target. Contradictory, eh?

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

Ahem, the band has always been anti-corporate, number one. Yeah, they had Sony, but the minute they get rid of them, in walks a new corporate sponsor: Target. Contradictory, eh?

It's the opposite of contradictory, actually. You just said it yourself. They've been in bed with a corporation from the beginning. So why should now be any different?

People grow up. Things that seem so goddamned important when you're 20 just don't carry the same weight when you're 45. At some point, you just want to do what you do, without making everything such a fucking hassle.

I don't know if you've noticed, but they've also been using Ticketmaster for the past 10 years or so, too.

PJBuckeye

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

from what I've read & heard..and having known 2 people who worked there...pretty much how i/we know about Wal-Mart...it's safe to say i know what I'm talking about.

here's a good little example for you i just found

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complain ... 77194.html

and i don't shop at wal-mart or target...but I'm sure i own something made by slaves in China or India...and it fucking kills me inside that our dumb ass population is so fucking apathetic and ignorant that they stood by and watched our country be gutted and parceled off without even a whimper...funny thing is, every American should feel like that..but they don't even know enough to get angry.

I know enough to roll my eyes at a loony extremist.

I know enough to laugh at angry people that ironically yell "ignorance" at every turn. (figure out why I say ironically)

Your "sources" are two guys that work retail. What percentage of people that work in retail love their jobs? Of course they are going to bitch about their "unfair" jobs. They hate their jobs by definition. Come a little stronger then that.

embrace

PJ music will continue to be and has been the backdrop to my life memories, been the source for countless eye-opening bits of real world knowledge, it's entertained me while I paint, play sports and drink beers....I could go on- point being if a partnership with Target on PJs negotiated terms gets the music into the ears of others, people like my nieces and nephews in their teens then I see a great benefit here. If listening to the music helps them dive into other great bands, learn about the situations we are facing our world today in and act as aware world citizens then get the music into the hands of the masses (just don't edit the words as another large superstore has). I can only gift so many copies...

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

Ahem, the band has always been anti-corporate, number one. Yeah, they had Sony, but the minute they get rid of them, in walks a new corporate sponsor: Target. Contradictory, eh?

It's the opposite of contradictory, actually. You just said it yourself. They've been in bed with a corporation from the beginning. So why should now be any different?

People grow up. Things that seem so goddamned important when you're 20 just don't carry the same weight when you're 45. At some point, you just want to do what you do, without making everything such a fucking hassle.

I don't know if you've noticed, but they've also been using Ticketmaster for the past 10 years or so, too.

It is contradictory if the band claims that they're against corporatism and favor the small guy yet is the product of one. And let me guess, your idea of growing up is making more money and buying more crap at Walmart, which I know you like to do.

JordyWordy

homeward angel wrote:

I don't care if Pearl Jam ties in with Target. I hope there's a skit on SNL where the Target lady makes a joke about a customer buying a Pearl Jam cd. I didn't get upset when a certain someone hooked up with a model AFTER the Satan's Bed lyrics were locked in my head because I know that in real life love has nothing to do with "principles" or ideals. I don't care that Yellow Ledbetter played at the end of Friends. I care about the music, the shows, and the good times I've had over the past 17+ years as a fan and Ten Club member. I DO care that a man was murdered in his church by a domestic terrorist. I care that my mom can barely survive on Social Security after working her ass off most of her life. I care that there is real greed (Dick Cheney) and real suffering (The Congo, Darfur, I could go on)in this world. Get over it, people.

Took the words out of my mouth. Amen.

There's more to life than applying bullshit principles when theyre not realistic.

pdalowsky

theres just far too many fucking idiots around with this sell out attitude.

So what, pearl jam use a sponsor. So fucking what.

Do you like the music? I do. Thats enough for me. I like the fact the band make money, I wouldnt come to work unless i did.

and if they take money off a big sponsor and that means they can get the record out for a better price to us, or provide tickets to us less than they otherwise would have been, they get my applause.

Maybe i am ignorant to the US economy and the amercian love of chinese child labour, but to be fair I'm not entirely sure Pearl Jam can change that

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

It is contradictory if the band claims that they're against corporatism and favor the small guy yet is the product of one. And let me guess, your idea of growing up is making more money and buying more crap at Walmart, which I know you like to do.

It's tough to be against corporatism ... and still work for Sony. Just sayin'.

I think you might be misinterpreting "Green Disease" -- "I guess there's nothing wrong with what you say" -- as in, make your money, so long as you aren't hurting anyone.

As far as I can tell, Pearl Jam isn't hurting anyone with this Target deal. In fact, they went out of their way to make sure the "little guy" -- ie, the independent record store owners -- still get a cut.

That's the problem with idealists. They aren't realistic. They don't live in the real world. And they are far too rigid.

slightofjeff

When we decided we were going to release this record ourselves in America,” Curtis says, “we removed that whole layer of the record company. And by the way, [the record company is] a bigger frickin’ corporation than Target is. They owned our music and owned our masters. Now we own everything, and control everything, and we’re choosing who we want to be partners with. Who will allow us the freedom to pick the kind of people we want to work with? Target was the only one out of all those [big chain] guys that was forward-enough thinking to allow us to think outside the box.”

waverider123

little league, stay at home dad, 40 hours aweek at night, soccer, boat, school bus, crazy wife, gymnastics, golf, drinking to much, pearl jam, trying to survive another day, a dying father

---

I'LL LET YOU PEOPLE FIGURE ALL THE BULLSHIT OUT!!!!!!!! I'M JUST HAPPY TO HAVE SOME NEW PEARL JAM TO HELP THROUGH THIS FUCKING EXISTANCE

breath123

slightofjeff wrote:

When we decided we were going to release this record ourselves in America,” Curtis says, “we removed that whole layer of the record company. And by the way, [the record company is] a bigger frickin’ corporation than Target is. They owned our music and owned our masters. Now we own everything, and control everything, and we’re choosing who we want to be partners with. Who will allow us the freedom to pick the kind of people we want to work with? Target was the only one out of all those [big chain] guys that was forward-enough thinking to allow us to think outside the box.”

yep, they're real corportewhores all right :roll: