Ed quote from 2005 - Target related

touringfan

This was a quote from 05 but it sums up the Target situation nicely. I for one agree with him 100% and don't fault them one bit for "mixing it up" a bit. For those crying about the Target thing read this and see where the band is coming from before you get all worked up over something so Inconsequential.

"Vedder: "What's happening is that this is the level of mainstream. If you're going to participate in the mainstream or compete with the amount of stuff that's out there, the bar gets raised. Now, it's not even about getting your video played. It's actually about getting a commercial when the record comes out."

Vedder: "I would rather that loads of people - including young women - heard your song through an iPod commercial, and then bought your record and be changed and affected by it - which they would be - as opposed to, say, a reality show."

U R A Crazy Breed

oh yeah...that explains it all...i feel so enlightened now. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

touringfan

Why take this so personal? Is it really that important to you? He makes a great point that in order to compete or get your album into as many hands as possible this is one of the better ways to do it. If doing a 30 sec commercial get the music in someone's hands that normally wouldn't have bought it is that a bad thing?

Curious,

Mortality

This isnt going to change the opinion of the die hard believers that Pearl Jam has sold out. Nothing will. I just feel bad for them for not realizing PJ sold out the day they taped the Jeremy video. There is no turning back.

They try to do things to counter-act the BS of mainstream music, but they are mainstream music. Why do you want them to sabotage themselves? This is not for you, its for them. This is what they want to do. I hold them to the standard of doing what they want to do, not what I want them to do. That is the integrity I judge them on.

breath123

i really don't get why people are freaking out over this.

PJ were with a major record label owned by an evil corporation for years. If anything they sold out on "ten".

Target is just a relaionship of convienience. It's making the devil do your dirty work. It's them bending the corporations to suit their needs.

That's not in keeping with the Pearl Jam Philosophy?

U R A Crazy Breed

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

touringfan

Thats why I posted it. Just curious to hear the other side and why its so upsetting. Not looking to argue just hear out what they have a problem with. I for one am a "old school" fan and have been around since 91 and have no problem with it. It's part of the evolution and keeping up with the times. I for one think its smart and the only thing I would have done differently is held off on Target and pushed for one of those IPOD commercials instead. Because no matter who the artist is I always wind up liking and downloading the song they use. U2, Feist, Jet, Franz Ferdinand etc.

Marie Curie

touringfan wrote:

This was a quote from 05 but it sums up the Target situation nicely. I for one agree with him 100% and don't fault them one bit for "mixing it up" a bit. For those crying about the Target thing read this and see where the band is coming from before you get all worked up over something so Inconsequential.

"Vedder: "What's happening is that this is the level of mainstream. If you're going to participate in the mainstream or compete with the amount of stuff that's out there, the bar gets raised. Now, it's not even about getting your video played. It's actually about getting a commercial when the record comes out."

Vedder: "I would rather that loads of people - including young women - heard your song through an iPod commercial, and then bought your record and be changed and affected by it - which they would be - as opposed to, say, a reality show."

But he's talking about Sleater-Kinney on those quotes. I don't think you can really apply that to PJ

touringfan

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

No they're a Japanese company that gladly take the american dollar for their overpriced TV's and gaming consoles.

touringfan

Marie Curie wrote:

touringfan wrote:

This was a quote from 05 but it sums up the Target situation nicely. I for one agree with him 100% and don't fault them one bit for "mixing it up" a bit. For those crying about the Target thing read this and see where the band is coming from before you get all worked up over something so Inconsequential.

"Vedder: "What's happening is that this is the level of mainstream. If you're going to participate in the mainstream or compete with the amount of stuff that's out there, the bar gets raised. Now, it's not even about getting your video played. It's actually about getting a commercial when the record comes out."

Vedder: "I would rather that loads of people - including young women - heard your song through an iPod commercial, and then bought your record and be changed and affected by it - which they would be - as opposed to, say, a reality show."

But he's talking about Sleater-Kinney on those quotes. I don't think you can really apply that to PJ

Yes he is but the context of the quote is the same idea. He was asking if they would let their music be used in a commercial (ipod) and then he kind of gives his feeling on the situation. At least thats the way I read it.

breath123

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

Target is as bad as walmart?

please post your sources

also, you don't own any chinese made goods? I'd call that unlikely.

PJBuckeye

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

Once again, Crazy Breed is paranoid of something larger and more sucessful than him. Big Surprise.

U R A Crazy Breed

PJBuckeye wrote:

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

Once again, Crazy Breed is paranoid of something larger and more sucessful than him. Big Surprise.

once again your ignorance leads you to a false assumption.



time to come up for air??

breath123

I was looking through google on this.

you may be right.

Maybe PJ should have teamed with costco, what? don't like them either?

well fuck me! what's a band to do?

by the way if you didn't organize an anti-nafta protest riot, you gotta take at least a share of the blame.

if you did, my sincerest apologies.

OGT92

breath123 wrote:

i really don't get why people are freaking out over this.

People = shit....

homeward angel

I don't care if Pearl Jam ties in with Target. I hope there's a skit on SNL where the Target lady makes a joke about a customer buying a Pearl Jam cd. I didn't get upset when a certain someone hooked up with a model AFTER the Satan's Bed lyrics were locked in my head because I know that in real life love has nothing to do with "principles" or ideals. I don't care that Yellow Ledbetter played at the end of Friends. I care about the music, the shows, and the good times I've had over the past 17+ years as a fan and Ten Club member. I DO care that a man was murdered in his church by a domestic terrorist. I care that my mom can barely survive on Social Security after working her ass off most of her life. I care that there is real greed (Dick Cheney) and real suffering (The Congo, Darfur, I could go on)in this world. Get over it, people.

U R A Crazy Breed

breath123 wrote:

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

Sony doesn't employ thousands of American workers and then provide a substandard wage and working environment thus continuing the wal-martization of the American work place and economy...also Sony isn't selling Chinese slave labor produced goods that have replaced American manufactured goods when your politicians, catering to corporations like Target, sold us out with NAFTA & GATT!!!!

is it starting to sink in now or should i continue?

Target is as bad as walmart?

please post your sources

also, you don't own any chinese made goods? I'd call that unlikely.

from what I've read & heard..and having known 2 people who worked there...pretty much how i/we know about Wal-Mart...it's safe to say i know what I'm talking about.

here's a good little example for you i just found

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complain ... 77194.html

and i don't shop at wal-mart or target...but I'm sure i own something made by slaves in China or India...and it fucking kills me inside that our dumb ass population is so fucking apathetic and ignorant that they stood by and watched our country be gutted and parceled off without even a whimper...funny thing is, every American should feel like that..but they don't even know enough to get angry.

breath123

PJ fell into the inevitable "ethics trap"

If you begin with ethics, you gotta keep it up....

I mean sure, you'll die poor like the ramones

but you'll never have sold out.

blacknapkins

What-f-in-ever ... I just want a new record to listen to. I like this band. I will buy what they release from whomever is selling it.

Jeez.

U R A Crazy Breed

breath123 wrote:

PJ fell into the inevitable "ethics trap"

If you begin with ethics, you gotta keep it up....

I mean sure, you'll die poor like the ramones

but you'll never have sold out.

I'm not even calling them sell outs because there is no official word yet...pretty much being hypothetical...and i don't care if target sells it as long as everyone else does too..including independent record stores...but if they sign an exclusive contract with Target like Garth Brooks & wal-mart...i'm getting sick just thinking about it...and to all the people who are saying "i don't know why you're mad" & "i don't know what the big deal is"...you're exactly right!!you don't know!

touringfan

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

breath123 wrote:

PJ fell into the inevitable "ethics trap"

If you begin with ethics, you gotta keep it up....

I mean sure, you'll die poor like the ramones

but you'll never have sold out.

I'm not even calling them sell outs because there is no official word yet...pretty much being hypothetical...and i don't care if target sells it as long as everyone else does too..including independent record stores...but if they sign an exclusive contract with Target like Garth Brooks & wal-mart...i'm getting sick just thinking about it...and to all the people who are saying "i don't know why you're mad" & "i don't know what the big deal is"...you're exactly right!!you don't know!

What are your thoughts on this scenario:

Target has a PJ commercial surrounding the release and they ALONG with independent record stores sell the album but only the Target version has "special bonus track or downloadable content" Is that less painful? Im not ripping or poking fun I respect your opinion and like to hear both sides. I personally dont see this being an exclusive deal but could see my scenario.

Wolf At Bay

Mortality wrote:

This isnt going to change the opinion of the die hard believers that Pearl Jam has sold out. Nothing will. I just feel bad for them for not realizing PJ sold out the day they taped the Jeremy video. There is no turning back.

They try to do things to counter-act the BS of mainstream music, but they are mainstream music. Why do you want them to sabotage themselves? This is not for you, its for them. This is what they want to do. I hold them to the standard of doing what they want to do, not what I want them to do. That is the integrity I judge them on.

I have to say, even though I'm on the other side of this argument I like what you said about how you judge their integrity. Always good to hear some valid thoughts coming from the opposition in a debate. You and Kelly Curtis have helped temper my initial indignation.

norm

what part of this is hard to understand?

we're choosing who we want to be partners with. Who will allow us the freedom to pick the kind of people we want to work with? Target was the only one out of all those [big chain] guys that was forward-enough thinking to allow us to think outside the box." Along with making the record available at small independent retailers, Curtis also hints at a cell-phone partnership, and says some green and charity initiatives are in the works.

Fahka

OGT92 wrote:

breath123 wrote:

i really don't get why people are freaking out over this.

People = shit....

At least target isn't as packed as the hell trap that is walmart...

Jeanwah

This is the thing that gets me. Kelly Curtis wants to talk about getting the music into the hands of all genres, through all media vehicles, through all sorts of retailers...

Then explain what PJ were trying to do with the No Code, Yield and Binaural albums. They were NOT out to spread their music to the masses, they were expressing and experimenting as artists and were damn comfortable doing it. SALES didn't mean shit to PJ at the time, but all of a sudden! PJ wants everyone everywhere to hear them! It's like they're saying "we're still here! Listen to us, because we need to appeal to new music listeners!" Not the "I'm an artist, you can listen if you want". This new attitude was on the Avocado album too. It's like they've evolved into being a business trying to get customers, rather than art buyers. I'm sadly disappointed in their new "partnerships".

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

This is the thing that gets me. Kelly Curtis wants to talk about getting the music into the hands of all genres, through all media vehicles, through all sorts of retailers...

Then explain what PJ were trying to do with the No Code, Yield and Binaural albums. They were NOT out to spread their music to the masses, they were expressing and experimenting as artists and were damn comfortable doing it. SALES didn't mean shit to PJ at the time, but all of a sudden! PJ wants everyone everywhere to hear them! It's like they're saying "we're still here! Listen to us, because we need to appeal to new music listeners!" Not the "I'm an artist, you can listen if you want". This new attitude was on the Avocado album too. It's like they've evolved into being a business trying to get customers, rather than art buyers. I'm sadly disappointed in their new "partnerships".

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s. It wasn't because they didn't want people to hear their music. It was because they just didn't want to be the biggest band in the world. They wanted to keep some of their identity. They wanted to stay at a manageable level ... ie, the level they are at now.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

embrace

homeward angel wrote:

I don't care if Pearl Jam ties in with Target. I hope there's a skit on SNL where the Target lady makes a joke about a customer buying a Pearl Jam cd. I didn't get upset when a certain someone hooked up with a model AFTER the Satan's Bed lyrics were locked in my head because I know that in real life love has nothing to do with "principles" or ideals. I don't care that Yellow Ledbetter played at the end of Friends. I care about the music, the shows, and the good times I've had over the past 17+ years as a fan and Ten Club member. I DO care that a man was murdered in his church by a domestic terrorist. I care that my mom can barely survive on Social Security after working her ass off most of her life. I care that there is real greed (Dick Cheney) and real suffering (The Congo, Darfur, I could go on)in this world. Get over it, people.

Communicated beautifully !

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

I understand why they pulled back in the '90s. But with the success they've received during their 20 year tenure, I refuse to buy the fact that they need money from album sales to support themselves. That's what touring is for. This band could solely do what the Grateful Dead has successfully done...never have a commercially successful album, and still be well-off. They're running a business, or rather, they're letting Kelly run the business, and they're fully on board. For whatever reason. But all these excuses "the music industry has changed", or "the internet is changing the music scene" is not it. They're already successful WITHOUT any corporate sponsors involved. In fact, they could give away their new album for FREE to all of us TC members and you can imagine the free publicity that would bring the band, not to mention even more success without the green disease.

slightofjeff

Jeanwah wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

You have to understand Pearl Jam's REASON for pulling back in the 90s. It wasn't because they didn't want people to hear their music. It was because they just didn't want to be the biggest band in the world. They wanted to keep some of their identity. They wanted to stay at a manageable level ... ie, the level they are at now.

These days, there is no danger of them blowing up as big as they were in the 90s, no matter what they do. They are free to do what they want as far as selling the album, without worrying about psycho bitches breaking into Ed's house, claiming he raped her and fathered her son, buying a gun and forcing Ed to spend the night at Matt Lukin's house.

It's a good thing. They are never going to be the IT band again ... so there is less reason to shun the little bit of spotlight that comes their way.

The other point I would make is, I would urge you to look at the changes in the music business since the 90s. I'd wager it is damn near impossible for a band the size of Pearl Jam to make the same living anymore just based on record sales. They have to do other things to make up for the fact that A) they aren't selling as many records; and Much of what they are "selling" is being downloaded illegally.

I understand why they pulled back in the '90s. But with the success they've received during their 20 year tenure, I refuse to buy the fact that they need money from album sales to support themselves. That's what touring is for. This band could solely do what the Grateful Dead has successfully done...never have a commercially successful album, and still be well-off. I don't buy it. They're running a business, or rather, they're letting Kelly run the business, and they're fully on board. For whatever reason. But all these excuses "the music industry has changed", or "the internet is changing the music scene" is not it. They're already successful WITHOUT any corporate sponsors involved.

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

soulsinging

touringfan wrote:

This was a quote from 05 but it sums up the Target situation nicely. I for one agree with him 100% and don't fault them one bit for "mixing it up" a bit. For those crying about the Target thing read this and see where the band is coming from before you get all worked up over something so Inconsequential.

"Vedder: "What's happening is that this is the level of mainstream. If you're going to participate in the mainstream or compete with the amount of stuff that's out there, the bar gets raised. Now, it's not even about getting your video played. It's actually about getting a commercial when the record comes out."

Vedder: "I would rather that loads of people - including young women - heard your song through an iPod commercial, and then bought your record and be changed and affected by it - which they would be - as opposed to, say, a reality show."

Didn't know Ed was so concerned with young women hearing their music

Jeanwah

slightofjeff wrote:

Newsflash: They were always running a business. They're just more upfront about it now.

If you can have "corporate sponsors" without sacrificing the music, then why not?

I don't think they'd be destitute without them. But I'm not sure they'd be able to live the lives they want or are accustomed to.

Ahem, the band has always been anti-corporate, number one. Yeah, they had Sony, but the minute they get rid of them, in walks a new corporate sponsor: Target. Contradictory, eh?