Been away for awhile, but what is this Showbox/Target talk?

Poncier

Kat wrote:

Poncier wrote:

Zoso wrote:

I don't mean bigger is better.. I mean someone who devoted more time to this board or spends more money going to more shows. PJ fanboys in other words I didn't mean to be a negative comment. I guess someone who has followed PJ through ticketmaster etc would be disappointed if this goes ahead.

I don't know. I've been a fan since the beginning, thought the TM battle was noble but knew it was unwinnable. I don't care if the sell the new disc through Target. I might be a tad put off if they used their music to sell other products at Target like "Evenflow" for the baby department ("Evenflow...milk arrives when baby cries..."), but using a big retailer to help market and distribute their music doesn't bother me.
Its similar to the U2 ipod thing in 2004, people called them sellouts, never checking facts that they didn't take any money for the ads and merely were promoting their catalog with it. Not much different than a billboard for a new album or a late night TV commercial (which we've all seen for PJ), just trying to get the product known by those who don't spend their free time on this website.

Do you recall how Pearl Jam were savaged by their fans for the Ticketmaster fight when they tried to do a tour without TM? People complained and complained they couldn't get tickets or the venues were bad or, or or... It was brutal. I sometimes wonder how many people, if any, remember that?

That's all...it was just on my mind today.

Absoulutely, it was hard to find decent venues not under Ticketmaster's control, and of course fans then blamed the band cause they were'nt playing at the local place right in the heart of the city etc.
They were in a no win situation. (which may be the case now in terms of marketing/seliing new music.)

pjsteelerfan

Kat wrote:

Do you recall how Pearl Jam were savaged by their fans for the Ticketmaster fight when they tried to do a tour without TM? People complained and complained they couldn't get tickets or the venues were bad or, or or... It was brutal. I sometimes wonder how many people, if any, remember that?

That's all...it was just on my mind today.

I remember the nightmare of calling for tickets during the No Code tour and then having to get seats through a scalper. I also knew a lot of people that were pissed they had to try and get tickets that way.

Poncier

CJMST3K wrote:

I thought the system worked ok actually. I think PJ got royally screwed by their friends in other major bands who refused to join them. From what I remember my friends and I were glad they were taking on that issue and the Randall's Island venue I saw them in was good (though would now be a safety issue since Roskilde). I think about the TM/Congress/PJ thing very frequently.

Not for nothing, but Downing Stadium was a dump, and traffic was brutal getting out of there.
Great show by the band though.

my2hands

Pearl Jam could release this album at "Jimmys Chicken and Rib Shack" and i would be first in line...


all you fuckers complaining, while maintaining a library of 10,000 songs shared on the internet for free are funny... maybe the band should just give you the album for free and tour for free... i mean, why do they need to make $ right? :roll:

CJMST3K

Poncier wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

I thought the system worked ok actually. I think PJ got royally screwed by their friends in other major bands who refused to join them. From what I remember my friends and I were glad they were taking on that issue and the Randall's Island venue I saw them in was good (though would now be a safety issue since Roskilde). I think about the TM/Congress/PJ thing very frequently.

Not for nothing, but Downing Stadium was a dump, and traffic was brutal getting out of there.
Great show by the band though.

Downing is indeed a dump. I've worked shows there. However, the experience was worth the lack of a traditional venue. PJ can play other "field shows" if they wanted to. It takes a bit of setup, but that is offset by the lack of traditional venue expenses to some degree. I think PJ took it as far as they could without substantial help from their musician friends.

Gonzo1977

Zoso wrote:

I don't mean bigger is better.. I mean someone who devoted more time to this board or spends more money going to more shows. PJ fanboys in other words I didn't mean to be a negative comment. I guess someone who has followed PJ through ticketmaster etc would be disappointed if this goes ahead.

Why are you disapointed?

Does possibly using Target to distribute their new album -since they are no longer under the Sony blanket- have anything to do with Ticketmaster?

If I remember correctly, Ticketmaster was ripping ticket buyers off and that is why Pearl Jam went up against them.

BP Amico was dumping crap in Lake Michigan and that is why they spoke out against them.

Were you angry all those years ago that Pearl Jam was essentially making records for SONY CORPORATION?

This doesn't change anything.

NewJPage

Kat wrote:

Poncier wrote:

Zoso wrote:

I don't mean bigger is better.. I mean someone who devoted more time to this board or spends more money going to more shows. PJ fanboys in other words I didn't mean to be a negative comment. I guess someone who has followed PJ through ticketmaster etc would be disappointed if this goes ahead.

I don't know. I've been a fan since the beginning, thought the TM battle was noble but knew it was unwinnable. I don't care if the sell the new disc through Target. I might be a tad put off if they used their music to sell other products at Target like "Evenflow" for the baby department ("Evenflow...milk arrives when baby cries..."), but using a big retailer to help market and distribute their music doesn't bother me.
Its similar to the U2 ipod thing in 2004, people called them sellouts, never checking facts that they didn't take any money for the ads and merely were promoting their catalog with it. Not much different than a billboard for a new album or a late night TV commercial (which we've all seen for PJ), just trying to get the product known by those who don't spend their free time on this website.

Do you recall how Pearl Jam were savaged by their fans for the Ticketmaster fight when they tried to do a tour without TM? People complained and complained they couldn't get tickets or the venues were bad or, or or... It was brutal. I sometimes wonder how many people, if any, remember that?

That's all...it was just on my mind today.

I hear ya, and understand the chaos from that time and their need to relent on the fight...My only question is if the band will soon be going against EVERYTHING they have stood for for the past 20 years...and here's hoping the answer is NO

Kat

Poncier wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

I thought the system worked ok actually. I think PJ got royally screwed by their friends in other major bands who refused to join them. From what I remember my friends and I were glad they were taking on that issue and the Randall's Island venue I saw them in was good (though would now be a safety issue since Roskilde). I think about the TM/Congress/PJ thing very frequently.

Not for nothing, but Downing Stadium was a dump, and traffic was brutal getting out of there.
Great show by the band though.

I loved that show in the rain...I don't think I saw anyone leaving either.

Solat13

Kat wrote:

Poncier wrote:

I don't know. I've been a fan since the beginning, thought the TM battle was noble but knew it was unwinnable. I don't care if the sell the new disc through Target. I might be a tad put off if they used their music to sell other products at Target like "Evenflow" for the baby department ("Evenflow...milk arrives when baby cries..."), but using a big retailer to help market and distribute their music doesn't bother me.
Its similar to the U2 ipod thing in 2004, people called them sellouts, never checking facts that they didn't take any money for the ads and merely were promoting their catalog with it. Not much different than a billboard for a new album or a late night TV commercial (which we've all seen for PJ), just trying to get the product known by those who don't spend their free time on this website.

Do you recall how Pearl Jam were savaged by their fans for the Ticketmaster fight when they tried to do a tour without TM? People complained and complained they couldn't get tickets or the venues were bad or, or or... It was brutal. I sometimes wonder how many people, if any, remember that?

That's all...it was just on my mind today.

I never savaged them, but I never joined the fan club for a bunch of years later than I should have because of the fact there were no non-tm venues at the time in Philly. I figured if they weren't going to play here why should I join. And there are a lot of people in Philly who were like that which explains whenever you look at touring fans you see a ton of Philly people who joined around the time of the 98 and 2000 tours.

redrock

NewJPage wrote:

I hear ya, and understand the chaos from that time and their need to relent on the fight...My only question is if the band will soon be going against EVERYTHING they have stood for for the past 20 years...and here's hoping the answer is NO

What if they do have a 'deal' with Target? Before jumping to all these conclusions and putting the 'business' bit to the side at the moment, let's look at the choice of Target (compared to say, Walmart), how they stand amongst other corporations - ethically, philantrophically (is that even a word?), environmentally, charitably, etc.

Some of you may be very surprised at what you may 'discover'. There are worse corporations to make deals with. There is also a thread regarding the music industry (article written by Duff McKagan) which gives a bit of insight on how things work now.

JOEJOEJOE

I can see how people would take issue with a record being distributed by Target, however, I can see how a band would opt for such distribution.

When a band is it's own record label, it has to put up the money to record, and, when the record is released to distributors, the band has to wait months and months before they get paid by said distributors. In this economic climate, the risk of the distributor getting stiffed by it's customers, or even the band getting stiffed by it's distributors, is huge.

If the band's distributor went belly-up, it could spell financial disaster....the odds of Target going bankrupt are quite low.

In most cases, bands who do deals with Target or Walmart are paid upfront, so there is almost zero risk involved. Also, Target is in it for the publicity, not a huge profit, so they usually sell the releases at a very low price.

pjtradeking

For me personally...and let me stress, I am only speaking for myself.

I consider myself to be a pretty big fan. Have been around for the better part of the last 18-19 years. I have made it a point to follow every little thing that this band does. I to this day, almost eat drink and sleep PJ when it comes to music. Not a day goes by that I dont come here to check in and I am always searching for any little tidbit or morsel that I can find good bad or indifferent to read about.

I was proud of them for try to take on TM....I was proud of them for speaking there mind about this and all past elections whether I agreed with them or not. I applaud them for taking risks whenever or whereever they can regardless of whether my take is the same as them. Have met and spoke at length with most of them (aside from Stone) and have been as nervous as a little girl each and everytime. I wait with baited breathe each time we have a new record on the horizon. I hold them in the highest regard that you possibly can from afar.

That said.....I have NEVER forgotten that the SOLE reason I EVER started liking this band in the FIRST place was the MUSIC!!!

I could care less whether or not they sold their souls to the freaking devil....used their music for a Ford commercial...A Target promotion...the closing of each and every tv series on the tube or teamed up with Britney Spears to do a video for fucking ladies under-garments....I hope they all live in mansions and sleep in beds stuffed with $100 bills...Make more $$ than they know what to do with and raise ticket prices AGAIN if they see fit...

It has ALWAY and will ALWAYS be about the MUSIC for me. At the end of the day, they are a BAND that I LOVE. They do not have a direct effect or bearing on my life other than making me happy when they tour...do tv....release new music or whatever...

MUSIC PEOPLE...It is what brought us here, and for SOME it is the reason we come back here day after day and have made some life-long friends. They are just people as we are....and some of us need to realize that...JUST PEOPLE...and quit taking things so serious...Your life will go on with or without them...They will break up some day beit from old age...a fight...or simply not wanting to do it any longer....What will you do then??? I shudder to think what will happen to some of you...I really do...Take it for whats its worth, but for fuck sakes...Lighten the hell up!! ;-)

CJMST3K

Kat wrote:

Poncier wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

I thought the system worked ok actually. I think PJ got royally screwed by their friends in other major bands who refused to join them. From what I remember my friends and I were glad they were taking on that issue and the Randall's Island venue I saw them in was good (though would now be a safety issue since Roskilde). I think about the TM/Congress/PJ thing very frequently.

Not for nothing, but Downing Stadium was a dump, and traffic was brutal getting out of there.
Great show by the band though.

I loved that show in the rain...I don't think I saw anyone leaving either.

The three hours exiting was worth it.

Did you work for them back then too, or a fan? (or both )

norm

pjtradeking wrote:

For me personally...and let me stress, I am only speaking for myself.

I consider myself to be a pretty big fan. Have been around for the better part of the last 18-19 years. I have made it a point to follow every little thing that this band does. I to this day, almost eat drink and sleep PJ when it comes to music. Not a day goes by that I dont come here to check in and I am always searching for any little tidbit or morsel that I can find good bad or indifferent to read about.

I was proud of them for try to take on TM....I was proud of them for speaking there mind about this and all past elections whether I agreed with them or not. I applaud them for taking risks whenever or whereever they can regardless of whether my take is the same as them. Have met and spoke at length with most of them (aside from Stone) and have been as nervous as a little girl each and everytime. I wait with baited breathe each time we have a new record on the horizon. I hold them in the highest regard that you possibly can from afar.

That said.....I have NEVER forgotten that the SOLE reason I EVER started liking this band in the FIRST place was the MUSIC!!!

I could care less whether or not they sold their souls to the freaking devil....used their music for a Ford commercial...A Target promotion...the closing of each and every tv series on the tube or teamed up with Britney Spears to do a video for fucking ladies under-garments....I hope they all live in mansions and sleep in beds stuffed with $100 bills...Make more $$ than they know what to do with and raise ticket prices AGAIN if they see fit...

It has ALWAY and will ALWAYS be about the MUSIC for me. At the end of the day, they are a BAND that I LOVE. They do not have a direct effect or bearing on my life other than making me happy when they tour...do tv....release new music or whatever...

MUSIC PEOPLE...It is what brought us here, and for SOME it is the reason we come back here day after day and have made some life-long friends. They are just people as we are....and some of us need to realize that...JUST PEOPLE...and quit taking things so serious...Your life will go on with or without them...They will break up some day beit from old age...a fight...or simply not wanting to do it any longer....What will you do then??? I shudder to think what will happen to some of you...I really do...Take it for whats its worth, but for fuck sakes...Lighten the hell up!! ;-)

well said my friend

NewJPage

pjtradeking wrote:

For me personally...and let me stress, I am only speaking for myself.

I consider myself to be a pretty big fan. Have been around for the better part of the last 18-19 years. I have made it a point to follow every little thing that this band does. I to this day, almost eat drink and sleep PJ when it comes to music. Not a day goes by that I dont come here to check in and I am always searching for any little tidbit or morsel that I can find good bad or indifferent to read about.

I was proud of them for try to take on TM....I was proud of them for speaking there mind about this and all past elections whether I agreed with them or not. I applaud them for taking risks whenever or whereever they can regardless of whether my take is the same as them. Have met and spoke at length with most of them (aside from Stone) and have been as nervous as a little girl each and everytime. I wait with baited breathe each time we have a new record on the horizon. I hold them in the highest regard that you possibly can from afar.

That said.....I have NEVER forgotten that the SOLE reason I EVER started liking this band in the FIRST place was the MUSIC!!!

I could care less whether or not they sold their souls to the freaking devil....used their music for a Ford commercial...A Target promotion...the closing of each and every tv series on the tube or teamed up with Britney Spears to do a video for fucking ladies under-garments....I hope they all live in mansions and sleep in beds stuffed with $100 bills...Make more $$ than they know what to do with and raise ticket prices AGAIN if they see fit...

It has ALWAY and will ALWAYS be about the MUSIC for me. At the end of the day, they are a BAND that I LOVE. They do not have a direct effect or bearing on my life other than making me happy when they tour...do tv....release new music or whatever...

MUSIC PEOPLE...It is what brought us here, and for SOME it is the reason we come back here day after day and have made some life-long friends. They are just people as we are....and some of us need to realize that...JUST PEOPLE...and quit taking things so serious...Your life will go on with or without them...They will break up some day beit from old age...a fight...or simply not wanting to do it any longer....What will you do then??? I shudder to think what will happen to some of you...I really do...Take it for whats its worth, but for fuck sakes...Lighten the hell up!! ;-)

While I agree that the music is the most important aspect of the band, and why i fell in love with them, for me and many others (and i think for the band themselves), it has always been about MORE than simply music. That is why they touched me in such a profound way...because it was more than just notes and beats. It was music with MEANING. And I think that is why I will be a bit disappointed if these rumors are true. we shall see, however...

NewJPage

redrock wrote:

NewJPage wrote:

I hear ya, and understand the chaos from that time and their need to relent on the fight...My only question is if the band will soon be going against EVERYTHING they have stood for for the past 20 years...and here's hoping the answer is NO

What if they do have a 'deal' with Target? Before jumping to all these conclusions and putting the 'business' bit to the side at the moment, let's look at the choice of Target (compared to say, Walmart), how they stand amongst other corporations - ethically, philantrophically (is that even a word?), environmentally, charitably, etc.

Some of you may be very surprised at what you may 'discover'. There are worse corporations to make deals with. There is also a thread regarding the music industry (article written by Duff McKagan) which gives a bit of insight on how things work now.

Doesn't matter how "good" a corporation they are. And I dont care what Duff has to say about making money in the current environment, because he (and pearl jam) are already set for life, their kids are set for life, and their grandkids are set for life. If they want to make money, just tour (which they already do to make money...they are making 6 figures at each show they play). its not a bad haul. If you want your band and music to stand for something, then turning it into an advertisement is not the way to do it.

plus i'm a bit confused...Am i supposed to support local record stores (as the website promoted a few weeks back), or shop at the big-box chains??

As of now, its still rumor, so all of my above statements are just refering to that rumor, although i think their verizon crap from last tour, the AOL stuff, and the rhapsody rock band etc. is also BS.

redrock

NewJPage wrote:

As of now, its still rumor, so all of my above statements are just refering to that rumor,.

It is now official.

pjtradeking

NewJPage wrote:

pjtradeking wrote:

For me personally...and let me stress, I am only speaking for myself.

I consider myself to be a pretty big fan. Have been around for the better part of the last 18-19 years. I have made it a point to follow every little thing that this band does. I to this day, almost eat drink and sleep PJ when it comes to music. Not a day goes by that I dont come here to check in and I am always searching for any little tidbit or morsel that I can find good bad or indifferent to read about.

I was proud of them for try to take on TM....I was proud of them for speaking there mind about this and all past elections whether I agreed with them or not. I applaud them for taking risks whenever or whereever they can regardless of whether my take is the same as them. Have met and spoke at length with most of them (aside from Stone) and have been as nervous as a little girl each and everytime. I wait with baited breathe each time we have a new record on the horizon. I hold them in the highest regard that you possibly can from afar.

That said.....I have NEVER forgotten that the SOLE reason I EVER started liking this band in the FIRST place was the MUSIC!!!

I could care less whether or not they sold their souls to the freaking devil....used their music for a Ford commercial...A Target promotion...the closing of each and every tv series on the tube or teamed up with Britney Spears to do a video for fucking ladies under-garments....I hope they all live in mansions and sleep in beds stuffed with $100 bills...Make more $$ than they know what to do with and raise ticket prices AGAIN if they see fit...

It has ALWAY and will ALWAYS be about the MUSIC for me. At the end of the day, they are a BAND that I LOVE. They do not have a direct effect or bearing on my life other than making me happy when they tour...do tv....release new music or whatever...

MUSIC PEOPLE...It is what brought us here, and for SOME it is the reason we come back here day after day and have made some life-long friends. They are just people as we are....and some of us need to realize that...JUST PEOPLE...and quit taking things so serious...Your life will go on with or without them...They will break up some day beit from old age...a fight...or simply not wanting to do it any longer....What will you do then??? I shudder to think what will happen to some of you...I really do...Take it for whats its worth, but for fuck sakes...Lighten the hell up!! ;-)

While I agree that the music is the most important aspect of the band, and why i fell in love with them, for me and many others (and i think for the band themselves), it has always been about MORE than simply music. That is why they touched me in such a profound way...because it was more than just notes and beats. It was music with MEANING. And I think that is why I will be a bit disappointed if these rumors are true. we shall see, however...

I am sure whether or not they used Target...Easy Street.. Costco... Wallmart or whomever, we are still as fans SOMEHWERE in the equation. I dont think that they take any deal lightly, and I dont think that one day you just wake up and "sellout" or change your thinking on things, the way you approach them, or the thought proccess leading up to it. I think that each move they make is a calculated one that takes us as fans into consideration each and every time. I dont think they have now, or will ever forget that it is us who put them where they are today. I GENUINELY think (as naive as that may sound) we are among the top of the list of things to consider when making a deal of any kind and the outcome it has...But as I said...if not, I am OK with it...:-)

josevolution

Hey as long as seniority stays .... .

pjtradeking

josevolution wrote:

Hey as long as seniority stays .... .

NICE!!! hahaha