Gay Marriage Ban

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

rollings wrote:

"marriage" bestows certain civil/legal rights, benefits & recognitions to two people who civilly/legally announce this, their intended union.

however, these rights, benefits, & recognitions are being denied to gay people for no other reason besides their preferred and/or natural sexual orientation.

and that's discrimination.

I'm actually not trying to "convince" you. Just trying to simply-state the issue as I see it.

And exactly what benefits, rights, recognitions are you talking about?

Well, for one you get to file a joint federal tax return. That's one

EmBleve

blackredyellow wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I have no questions....

I am against same sex marriage....

Convince me to change my mind on the subject......

And do it without calling me an asshole or a bigot......

No one is suggesting that you have to get married to a guy, so you can be against same sex marriage. But, why should your dislike of marrying a dude mean that no other dudes can?

I mean, I'm against guys wearing their pants like these idiots:

But, I don't think there needs to be laws against it... Give people the freedom to do things that don't hurt anyone else, even if you don't like it. Isn't that what "freedom" really means anyway?

yes. +1

SPEEDY MCCREADY

rollings wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

rollings wrote:

"marriage" bestows certain civil/legal rights, benefits & recognitions to two people who civilly/legally announce this, their intended union.

however, these rights, benefits, & recognitions are being denied to gay people for no other reason besides their preferred and/or natural sexual orientation.

and that's discrimination.

I'm actually not trying to "convince" you. Just trying to simply-state the issue as I see it.

And exactly what benefits, rights, recognitions are you talking about?

So now we have to change our tax laws?

Ok

What else?

Well, for one you get to file a joint federal tax return. That's one

EmBleve

rollings wrote:

"marriage" bestows certain civil/legal rights, benefits & recognitions to two people who civilly/legally announce this, their intended union.

however, these rights, benefits, & recognitions are being denied to gay people for no other reason besides their preferred and/or natural sexual orientation.

and that's discrimination.

I'm actually not trying to "convince" you. Just trying to simply-state the issue as I see it.

I agree.

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

rollings wrote:

"marriage" bestows certain civil/legal rights, benefits & recognitions to two people who civilly/legally announce this, their intended union.

however, these rights, benefits, & recognitions are being denied to gay people for no other reason besides their preferred and/or natural sexual orientation.

and that's discrimination.

I'm actually not trying to "convince" you. Just trying to simply-state the issue as I see it.

And exactly what benefits, rights, recognitions are you talking about?

and these:

On the order of 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon married couples in the U.S.
Typically these are composed of about 400 state benefits and over 1,000 federal benefits. Among them are the rights to:

--joint parenting;
--joint adoption;
--joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
--status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
--joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
--dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
--immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
--inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
--joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or -apartment;
-- inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
-- benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
--spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
--veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
--joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
-- wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
--bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
--decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
--crime victims' recovery benefits;
--loss of consortium tort benefits;
--domestic violence protection orders;
--judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
and more....

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Ok here we go...

Joint parenting..
Joint adoption...

What are the current laws covering adoption and parenting with same sex couples?
What are the DIVORCE and Custody laws...

2 lesbians get married..One has a child (naturally) not adopted...They become parents....2 Years later they divorce.....

Do they have equal rights to the child?
Is there child support laws for gay/lesbians?
Are there alimony laws in place for same sex marriages/divorces??

Im just curious..
I have NO IDEA...

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

rollings wrote:

"marriage" bestows certain civil/legal rights, benefits & recognitions to two people who civilly/legally announce this, their intended union.

however, these rights, benefits, & recognitions are being denied to gay people for no other reason besides their preferred and/or natural sexual orientation.

and that's discrimination.

I'm actually not trying to "convince" you. Just trying to simply-state the issue as I see it.

And exactly what benefits, rights, recognitions are you talking about?

the below comes from this website:
(I was not aware of the fact contained in the last paragraph below..... even if a STATE calls it a marriage, the federal governement still does not recognize it as such :fp: ) Oy!

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... 30190.html


Whether or not you favor marriage as a social institution, there's no denying that it confers many rights, protections, and benefits -- both legal and practical. Some of these vary from state to state, but the list typically includes:

Tax Benefits
•Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
•Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

Estate Planning Benefits
•Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
•Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
•Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
•Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.

Government Benefits
•Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
•Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
•Receiving public assistance benefits.

Employment Benefits
•Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
•Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
•Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
•Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.

Medical Benefits
•Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
•Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

Death Benefits
•Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
•Making burial or other final arrangements.

Family Benefits
•Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
•Applying for joint foster care rights.
•Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
•Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

Housing Benefits
•Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
•Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

Consumer Benefits
•Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
•Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
•Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

Other Legal Benefits and Protections
•Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
•Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
•Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
•Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
•Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
•Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

Same-Sex Marriage, Civil Unions, and Domestic Partnerships

If you are in a same-sex marriage in one of the states where same-sex marriage is allowed (Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and D.C.), or if you are in a domestic partnership or civil union in any of the states that offer those relationship options, none of the benefits of marriage under federal law will apply to you, because the federal government does not recognize these same-sex relationships. For example, you may not file joint federal income tax returns with your partner, even if your state allows you to file taxes jointly. And other federal benefits, such as Social Security death benefits and COBRA continuation insurance coverage, may not apply.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Ok here we go...

Joint parenting..
Joint adoption...

What are the current laws covering adoption and parenting with same sex couples?
What are the DIVORCE and Custody laws...

2 lesbians get married..One has a child (naturally) not adopted...They become parents....2 Years later they divorce.....

Do they have equal rights to the child?
Is there child support laws for gay/lesbians?
Are there alimony laws in place for same sex marriages/divorces??

Im just curious..
I have NO IDEA...

I don't know either.

All I know is that access to all many rights, protections, and benefits are being denied to gay people just because they are gay.

It's just discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

It's not right

redrock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

I don't think this is correct. Once same sex marriage is legal, it's a marriage like any other so no need to change anything else because those 'rights' are conferred to 'marriage'.

Though it would seem it's not at federal level :?

chadwick

rollings wrote:

I don't know either.

All I know is that access to all many rights, protections, and benefits are being denied to gay people just because they are gay.

It's just discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

It's not right

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

Nope. No thought at all.

If the government overnight made same sex marriages legal, the only lawbook entry that needs changing would be the sex marriage law.

...And that would finally allow gay people access to the laws and rights that are already there

It would end the discrimination

SPEEDY MCCREADY

redrock wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

I don't think this is correct. Once same sex marriage is legal, it's a marriage like any other so no need to change anything else because those 'rights' are conferred to 'marriage'.

Though it would seem it's not at federal level :?

So we make same sex marriages legal tommorow..

And ALL current laws regarding marriage, alimony, child support, custody, etc. All stay in place?

Think about it a second....

It doesnt and WONT work.

It is FAR FROM A MARRIAGE LIKE ANY OTHER!

SPEEDY MCCREADY

rollings wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

Nope. No thought at all.

If the government overnight made same sex marriages legal, the only lawbook entry that needs changing would be the sex marriage law.

...And that would finally allow gay people access to the laws and rights that are already there

It would end the discrimination

You make it seem so simple..
NO OTHER laws would need to be changed?

Too bad it would NEVER be that simple.

redrock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

It is FAR FROM A MARRIAGE LIKE ANY OTHER!

Why? Is it not the union of two people in love who wish to have a fulfilling life together, with all the ups and downs of a marriage? Apart from the sex aspect (and procreation), how so different is it to a man/woman marriage?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Telling me NO LAWS need to be looked at and changed...
Telling me NO THOUGHT needs to be put into this...
Telling me that we could legalize gay marriage over-night.....

Really isnt convincing me to change my mind....

In fact, it is showing me that maybe EVERYONE involved, really needs to think about this, and do a little more homework.

redrock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Telling me NO LAWS need to be looked at and changed...
Telling me NO THOUGHT needs to be put into this...
Telling me that we could legalize gay marriage over-night.....

Really isnt convincing me to change my mind....

As several people said before, no one is trying to convince you to change your mind. You have stated your opinion which did not seem to be open to debate.

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

rollings wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrong...

But BEFORE we can make same Sex marriages legal.....

We need to take a look at and possibly change...
Are tax laws...
Are adoption laws...
Are custody laws...
Are alimony laws...

Just to name a few...

Correct???

So I have to believe that we just cant make same sex marriages legal over-night...Correct?
There needs to be a ton of thought put into this...Correct?

Nope. No thought at all.

If the government overnight made same sex marriages legal, the only lawbook entry that needs changing would be the sex marriage law.

...And that would finally allow gay people access to the laws and rights that are already there

It would end the discrimination

You make it seem so simple..
NO OTHER laws would need to be changed?

Too bad it would NEVER be that simple.

It is that simple.

Let gays marry and recognize the marriage as any other marriage

All those other laws refer to "married people" or "spouse" etc. and if they also happen to specifically mention "Man" and "woman", then all you have to do is change those words.

Maybe I dont' understand what you're saying.....why would other laws need to be changed if all they refer to is "marriage"?

blackredyellow

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Telling me NO LAWS need to be looked at and changed...
Telling me NO THOUGHT needs to be put into this...
Telling me that we could legalize gay marriage over-night.....

Really isnt convincing me to change my mind....

In fact, it is showing me that maybe EVERYONE involved, really needs to think about this, and do a little more homework.

Give me a specific law that would need changed

rollings

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Telling me NO LAWS need to be looked at and changed...
Telling me NO THOUGHT needs to be put into this...
Telling me that we could legalize gay marriage over-night.....

Really isnt convincing me to change my mind....

In fact, it is showing me that maybe EVERYONE involved, really needs to think about this, and do a little more homework.

aww, c'mon, stay with me here........(read my last post)