I Can't Wait For Government Run Health-Care!!!

slightofjeff

My grandmother has recently been diagnosed with a blood deficiency. It saps her energy to the point where she can't really get out of bed for more than an hour or so at a time. There is a shot that will fix what ails her. It costs something like $3500.

She is on Medicare -- ie, government-run health care -- and Medicare will pay for it ... IF and only IF her deficiency level gets to a certain point. I'm not sure what the scale is, but she needs to be like a 10, and she'll like an 11.

She's close. She feels like shit all the time. Medicare won't pay for the shot.

My grandpa says, screw it. He's tired of my grandma feeling like shit all the time. He says he will pay the $3500 out of his own pocket.

Sorry. That's impossible. Medicare -- ie, the government -- will not allow it. Because it's not fair to the people on Medicare who can't afford to pay $3500.

The best suggestion my grandmother's doctor can give her to is to get sicker, then come back. Seriously.

It's stupid. It's arbitrary. It's quasi-Socialist (if all can't afford it, you're not allowed to buy it). It's Government Run Health Care!

I can hardly wait.

jlew24asu

wow. what a perfect example and horrible story. :( I'm very sorry to hear that.

inmytree

I'm sorry to hear about this...

Is your Grandfather going to purchase a Private Insurance Plan since that would be better...?

FiveB247x

Sorry to hear about your family member but that really isn't a significant example of why government healthcare is a problem. Government healthcare is a problem because it refuses to get out of bed with the Insurance and Medical industries (drug companies, etc). That's the real source of the problem.

Lastly, it's pretty hard to argue that an entire health care system which will cover over 40+ million non-covered citizens is wrong because one person can't get one specific shot.

cajunkiwi

Here's the trick, from someone who comes from a quasi-socialist country. Look at some of the countries at the top of the standard of living indexes - New Zealand, and the Scandanavian countries... socialism has its benefits and can work well, but it has to be done RIGHT in order to work. Otherwise you just end up with a mess like your situation. I wouldn't want George Bush running a Dairy Queen (to steal a Mark Cuban line), let alone a nation where he had more control than he did for the last eight years, and it's too early to tell with Obama - but if you get rid of the incompetent assholes on both sides of the aisle in Washington you might find it isn't as bad as Fox News says it is (socialism isn't Soviet-era communism).

Then again, if you get rid of the incompetent guys in Washington, you'd be left with two or three people standing around wondering where their co-workers went lol

jlew24asu

cajunkiwi wrote:

Here's the trick, from someone who comes from a quasi-socialist country. Look at some of the countries at the top of the standard of living indexes - New Zealand, and the Scandanavian countries... socialism has its benefits and can work well, but it has to be done RIGHT in order to work. Otherwise you just end up with a mess like your situation. I wouldn't want George Bush running a Dairy Queen (to steal a Mark Cuban line), let alone a nation where he had more control than he did for the last eight years, and it's too early to tell with Obama - but if you get rid of the incompetent assholes on both sides of the aisle in Washington you might find it isn't as bad as Fox News says it is (socialism isn't Soviet-era communism).

Then again, if you get rid of the incompetent guys in Washington, you'd be left with two or three people standing around wondering where their co-workers went lol

I hear that argument alot.."well it works in new zealand"...America is one of the largest and most complex countries in the world. trying to implement a government run health care system is nearly impossible. but I think Obama is looking for a different type of "socialist" health care system. I think his plan has a chance, but is too expensive IMO.

cajunkiwi

jlew24asu wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

Here's the trick, from someone who comes from a quasi-socialist country. Look at some of the countries at the top of the standard of living indexes - New Zealand, and the Scandanavian countries... socialism has its benefits and can work well, but it has to be done RIGHT in order to work. Otherwise you just end up with a mess like your situation. I wouldn't want George Bush running a Dairy Queen (to steal a Mark Cuban line), let alone a nation where he had more control than he did for the last eight years, and it's too early to tell with Obama - but if you get rid of the incompetent assholes on both sides of the aisle in Washington you might find it isn't as bad as Fox News says it is (socialism isn't Soviet-era communism).

Then again, if you get rid of the incompetent guys in Washington, you'd be left with two or three people standing around wondering where their co-workers went lol

I hear that argument alot.."well it works in new zealand"...America is one of the largest and most complex countries in the world. trying to implement a government run health care system is nearly impossible. but I think Obama is looking for a different type of "socialist" health care system. I think his plan has a chance, but is too expensive IMO.

It seems like something has to change - a lot of people are complaining about the status quo, but few people are coming up with suggestions of ways to fix what is broken. A socialist approach may not work for everyone - as the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat (relax, it's just a saying, I'm not speaking from experience). There's a solution to the problem out there, you just need people who are smart enough to come up with it and tough enough to implement it in the face of people who will inevitably oppose it, either because they don't like change, or because it wasn't "their" party who came up with it. From a rank outsiders opinion, it seems like a lot of the political problems here stem from the fact that neither party works well with the other - and when one makes a genuine effort to reach out, the other pulls away for fear of getting cooties lol

What did people in Illinois think of Obama before he announced he was running for president? I'm just curious... I've seen bits and pieces in the national media about people who are touting Jindal as a potential nominee in 2012 or 2016, but as someone living in Louisiana now, I can tell you he isn't exactly mind-blowing popular down here (though, admittedly, like Obama he inherited a bit of a mess when he took office)

jlew24asu

cajun, I agree with your post.


and, being from IL, i would say people were mostly pleased with Obama. but then again, IL is a very liberal state so its not very shocking.

slightofjeff

I've heard the "it works in other countries" line, too. And maybe it does.

However, I was recently on a flight home from New York, seated next to a guy from England. We get to talking, as often happens on cross-country flights, and he told me he was on his way to the States for knee replacement surgery.

He wasn't going to get it back home, because there was a three-year waiting list. His doctor told him he needed the operation. If he didn't get it, the pain would quickly move from "uncomfortable" to "unbearable" to "excruciating."

But to get it from the government, he'd have to wait three years.

He said screw it. He'd pay for it himself and get it now. In the United States.

I know this is just one man's story. Maybe government-run health care works for some people. But I look around at everything else the government gets its fingers in. Without fail, everything they touch turns to shit.

I'm fine with the health plan I have now. I don't need or want the government's.

Commy

slightofjeff wrote:

I've heard the "it works in other countries" line, too. And maybe it does.

However, I was recently on a flight home from New York, seated next to a guy from England. We get to talking, as often happens on cross-country flights, and he told me he was on his way to the States for knee replacement surgery.

He wasn't going to get it back home, because there was a three-year waiting list. His doctor told him he needed the operation. If he didn't get it, the pain would quickly move from "uncomfortable" to "unbearable" to "excruciating."

But to get it from the government, he'd have to wait three years.

He said screw it. He'd pay for it himself and get it now. In the United States.

I know this is just one man's story. Maybe government-run health care works for some people. But I look around at everything else the government gets its fingers in. Without fail, everything they touch turns to shit.

I'm fine with the health plan I have now. I don't need or want the government's.

you should be lucky you HAVE a health care plan. 44 million of us Americans don't. that's criminal.


If i had to wait 3 years for a non-life threatening knee surgury, but would get covered in a serious illness, i'd take that over this shitty system any day.


The health care system in America is a CRIME. They are putting profit over people, and seem to be happy about it. We spend more on our military than the next 27 countries combined. To say we can't afford health care is a lie. War is too expensive, but we always seem to have plenty to spend on that. What's Iraq up to these days? $1 trillion? more? and we can't afford universal health care? please.


Its criminal. We have a choice to make. We can continue to allow our government to spend our money on things like wars and black operations in Pakistan and wars in Iraq, to hurt people, or we can stand up and force them to spend that money to help people, starting with US. It's not going to be a voluntary switch, we will have to make them do it, much like the civil rights movement or the workers rights movement. This will be the health care movement.

ledvedderman

slightofjeff wrote:

I've heard the "it works in other countries" line, too. And maybe it does.

However, I was recently on a flight home from New York, seated next to a guy from England. We get to talking, as often happens on cross-country flights, and he told me he was on his way to the States for knee replacement surgery.

He wasn't going to get it back home, because there was a three-year waiting list. His doctor told him he needed the operation. If he didn't get it, the pain would quickly move from "uncomfortable" to "unbearable" to "excruciating."

But to get it from the government, he'd have to wait three years.

He said screw it. He'd pay for it himself and get it now. In the United States.

I know this is just one man's story. Maybe government-run health care works for some people. But I look around at everything else the government gets its fingers in. Without fail, everything they touch turns to shit.

I'm fine with the health plan I have now. I don't need or want the government's.

I'm going to go back and look, but from memory, I remember thinking that under Obama's plan, you wouldn't have to buy into the gov't package. You could still go through a carrier like you have now. Like I said though, I could be wrong. I probably am wrong, but I'll admit it.

jlew24asu

UHC in America would cost 100 times more then our military budget. and 250% of GDP.

and what is a crime is that you don't take care of yourself and get some insurance or a job.


tell me Commy, who would take care of your medical needs under your Anarchy system?

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

slightofjeff wrote:

I've heard the "it works in other countries" line, too. And maybe it does.

However, I was recently on a flight home from New York, seated next to a guy from England. We get to talking, as often happens on cross-country flights, and he told me he was on his way to the States for knee replacement surgery.

He wasn't going to get it back home, because there was a three-year waiting list. His doctor told him he needed the operation. If he didn't get it, the pain would quickly move from "uncomfortable" to "unbearable" to "excruciating."

But to get it from the government, he'd have to wait three years.

He said screw it. He'd pay for it himself and get it now. In the United States.

I know this is just one man's story. Maybe government-run health care works for some people. But I look around at everything else the government gets its fingers in. Without fail, everything they touch turns to shit.

I'm fine with the health plan I have now. I don't need or want the government's.

I'm going to go back and look, but from memory, I remember thinking that under Obama's plan, you wouldn't have to buy into the gov't package. You could still go through a carrier like you have now. Like I said though, I could be wrong. I probably am wrong, but I'll admit it.

I heard this too. and that sounds ok by me, but still too expensive IMO. and, I think his plan (I could be wrong) covers illegal aliens. I love our illegal aliens as much as the next guy, but taking care of them medically, while they pay NO more into the system, just seems very unfair to you and me.

FiveB247x

We are the richest nation in the world and for us to not have universal health care is a crime. It also shows in great depth how our nation runs. For those of you against universal health care, you're arguement isn't against the practice of everyone being cared for, it's against how the system and government carries out such a program, so perhaps finding that resolution is what is in order compared to calling everyone for it socialists or similar.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

UHC in America would cost 100 times more then our military budget. and 250% of GDP.

according to who? and under what system? maybe if we're trying to cover the entire the world. i'm just talking about the US. were there a fundamental shift in the system, it wouldn't cost nearly as much, say cut out the middle men, the insurance companies.

Why is health care free in France and their doctors are driving bmw's with high rise flats? they seem to be doing just fine.

and what is a crime is that you don't take care of yourself and get some insurance or a job.

I have to wait 6 months before i'm put on a plan. just hoping i don't break my leg or something, i'll probably be in debt for some time.

tell me Commy, who would take care of your medical needs under your Anarchy system?

why does knee surgery cost $30,000 or whatever it is? why is it so high? its almost an arbitrary figure based somewhat on demand. ideally it would be free.

jlew24asu

jlew24asu wrote:

tell me Commy, who would take care of your medical needs under your Anarchy system?

you didnt answer the question. I'm dying to know your answer.

Commy wrote:

why does knee surgery cost $30,000 or whatever it is? why is it so high? its almost an arbitrary figure based somewhat on demand. ideally it would be free.

people do not work for free Commy. medical school is very long and expensive. and only a certain few are capable of being life saving doctors. secondly, built into the cost of care is liability costs of the doctors. they pay almost half their income on insurance to protect themselves against people like you who wold sue them if they made a mistake.

inmytree

I do find it interesting that no one has said "hey, Grandpa should go buy a Private Insurance Policy" as a solution to the problem...

WaveCameCrashin

jlew24asu wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

tell me Commy, who would take care of your medical needs under your Anarchy system?

you didnt answer the question. I'm dying to know your answer.

why does knee surgery cost $30,000 or whatever it is? why is it so high? its almost an arbitrary figure based somewhat on demand. ideally it would be free.

do you really think this way or do you just ??? aw fuck it nevermind.... :roll:


people do not work for free Commy. medical school is very long and expensive. and only a certain few are capable of being life saving doctors. secondly, built into the cost of care is liability costs of the doctors. they pay almost half their income on insurance to protect themselves against people like you who wold sue them if they made a mistake.

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

I do find it interesting that no one has said "hey, Grandpa should go buy a Private Insurance Policy" as a solution to the problem...

given her age and existing condition, an insurance policy would probably cost as much as paying for the services directly

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

tell me Commy, who would take care of your medical needs under your Anarchy system?

you didnt answer the question. I'm dying to know your answer.

nor did you tell me where you got your numbers on the cost of health care.



its not a simple answer.




labor is decided by individuals, who the cap fits. and you're right, not everyone is cut out to be a doctor. but they save lives. ideally, celebrities are born this way, those that save lives get attention from their peers, ideally. that is a motivating factor for some, for why they labor. instead of these idiot reality star douchebags that everyone considers celebrities now, it would be more about who does the most for the community. that's how hero's would be born, and they would have a certain celebrity status.


as it is prices are fairly arbitrary. in many industries corporations are controlling prices by controlling supply. there's some diamond mines in africa where they just hide away billions of dollars worth of diamonds so as not to flood the market, thus dropping prices. agriculture is like that as well. we have the ability to grow enough food for everyone on the planet, but prices would be so low monsanto might lose money next quarter, so they don't do it. point is prices are, for the most part, arbitrary, or fixed by the sellers, the corporations.

why does knee surgery cost $30,000? part of it is the expertise of the doctor, but $30,000 for a 3 hour surgery seems a bit excessive to me. part of it is equipment.


You know Cuba has 20,000 fully trained doctors operating around the 3rd world? that's more than any country on earth. poor little island cuba has more trained doctors operating outside its borders than some countries have inside. if they can do with so few resources, imagine what could be acccomplished with a resource rich country such as the United States.

Commy wrote:

why does knee surgery cost $30,000 or whatever it is? why is it so high? its almost an arbitrary figure based somewhat on demand. ideally it would be free.

people do not work for free Commy. medical school is very long and expensive. and only a certain few are capable of being life saving doctors. secondly, built into the cost of care is liability costs of the doctors. they pay almost half their income on insurance to protect themselves against people like you who wold sue them if they made a mistake.

i wou;dn tbe suing anybody. unless he injected my with cyanide or something.


see above.

Cuba has 20,000 trained doctors operating outside their borders, providing care to third world countries, saving countless lives.

and medical school costs are arbitrary. why should education cost ANYTHING? not everyone can do it. only those capable will be enrolling anyway. we could learn a a lot from Cuba. maybe that's why they are still considered a threat, they are an example on how to run a decent society.



in a resource based society, money is taken out of the equation. service is provided based on need. people will be motivated to become doctors because of reasons other than greed, the desire to save lives for one, and they would have a certain elevated status within the community, much like a shaman back in the day, only more modern and a lot cooler. they would be celebrities.

WaveCameCrashin

I agree something should be done about the high cost of health care. My mom works for a small dental Practice she's almost 60 dosent smoke or drink and in good health and get this she pays over $400 a month and that's just medical . But as far as Hillary care or Obama care if it''s going to be anything like what Europe has they can keep that shit.