It's a tricky situation. I mean I wouldn't have a problem if each team on their own decided that they didn't want to pick him up and deal with the negative press. But to be banned outright from the entire league doesn't really sit right to me. I mean like people have posted he did his time. Plus unless he wants to move to Canada, the NFL is really the only option for pro football there is. I mean its not like if he was banned from working at McDonalds, and then he just went and applied for a job at Burger King.
SHOULD he be allowed back in if a team wants to add him to their roster? ABSOLUTELY.
Look, if more punishment is required, then it's an issue for the courts and laws.
I'm an animal lover myself, but let's say he broke a different law such as armed robbery. After he served the debt required of him by the courts and laws, would people call for him to not be let back in?
Or another way. What if it was somebody who just had a general office job and they committed the same crimes Vick did. After they get out of prison, should we ban them from working?
I say leave it up to the individual entities.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
the days of children being able to look up to sport heroes...sadly, long, long gone it seems. despicable human being imo, a horrible example for children.....but as many have said, he legally served his time so legally i don't believe he should be blocked from returning to the sport. however, i wish sport franchises would block such individuals from being a part of their teams. tho i imagine he'll be back in the game, making his millions again.....
the days of children being able to look up to sport heroes...sadly, long, long gone it seems. despicable human being imo, a horrible example for children.....but as many have said, he legally served his time so legally i don't believe he should be blocked from returning to the sport. however, i wish sport franchises would block such individuals from being a part of their teams. tho i imagine he'll be back in the game, making his millions again.....
In the past, children looked up to sport heroes because the negative side of their lives wasn't publicized... Not talking just about Vick, but in general, there were some despicable people in the past, but no 24-hour sports networks, or paparazzi/bloggers following these guys around everyday all day.
Like any profession, there are good people and bad people... In sports, I don't really think that the ratio has changed all that much over the years.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
LOL, slow down skippy. I dont have compassion for Mike Vick. I was speaking hypothetically. second of all, lets put what was done in prospective. we are talking about pit bulls fighting each other. pit bulls are the strongest most viscous breed of dog know to man. although I love those dogs, my ex-girlfriend has one and she slept in the same bed with us almost every night. I LOVE pit bulls.
mike vick and his buddies didnt sit around and put cigarettes out on their backs or cut off their legs. they forced these dogs to fight. and on some basica animalistic level, thats what animals do to survive. they are animals remember?
now that said, it is 100% wrong what was done and Mike Vick deserves all the jail time he got. but I'm not sure why you think he can't change. Mike Vick grew up in a culture where this type of thing is normal and accepted. he probably had no idea what he was doing was wrong until he was arrested.
Skippy here,
Agree to disagree, I guess, and I wasn't trying to single you out...but just trying to speak for my belief on the situation.
how do you compare dogfighting to animals fighting in the wild off of instinct? There is no ring leader in the wild that places bets on you to win an arranged fight.
Using an excuse like "I grew up this way, and didn't know any better" is a half-assed excuse, and if Vick chooses to use it then whatever, so be it. I guess it's his problem that he's plagued with ignorance and stupidity.
It just doesn't make sense to me...if OJ Simpson, Ted Bundy, and other really despicable people said "I didn't know any better, it's how I was raised and how I grew up." Would we then be so quick to say "Oh, well the poor stupid ass is just suffering from being sheltered from society and common sense."
Now I know that OJ and Bundy aren't exactly the same in comparison to Vick...but what difference does it make? Adults, children, animals? None should be treated the way that said people treated them.
Whatever, I'm wasting my breath. Vick will continue to be a professional athlete, becuase that is far more important than being humane. :roll:
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
SHOULD he be allowed back in if a team wants to add him to their roster? ABSOLUTELY.
Look, if more punishment is required, then it's an issue for the courts and laws.
I'm an animal lover myself, but let's say he broke a different law such as armed robbery. After he served the debt required of him by the courts and laws, would people call for him to not be let back in?
Or another way. What if it was somebody who just had a general office job and they committed the same crimes Vick did. After they get out of prison, should we ban them from working?
I say leave it up to the individual entities.
Vick won't be banned from working, are you kidding me? Plenty of companies hire ex-cons. He may have just lost his chance to work in the NFL again...so what's the big deal? He has to take a huge pay cut and get used to the life that we all live: Not making millions of dollars for playing a sport. Welcome back to the real world, Mikey.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
mike vick and his buddies didnt sit around and put cigarettes out on their backs or cut off their legs. they forced these dogs to fight.
Are you seriously saying that being forced to fight to the death in some cases or painful injury is better than having a cigarette put out on your back or your leg cut off? Can you not imagine being thrown into a pit with someone or something that you knew was being forced to hurt or kill you? And have no way out but to fight back? Until either you or he was dead or maimed? How can that be a forgiveable offense?
It seems that people are debating the difference between classes or types of crime. The difference is the mean and cruel intent that is involved. When someone drives drunk and hurts or kills someone else they should be punished. It is wrong to drive drunk and threaten others. When someone steals thousands of dollars from their employer it is wrong and they should be punished. But can these people be compared to Michael Vick and other sorts like him? No. Michael Vick was intentionally causing pain and death to others for pleasure and money. He did it over and over again. A person that drives drunk thinks that in the end nobody will get hurt. The person that imbezzles from his employer does not see the pain or loss that is being caused. But somebody like Michael Vick knows exactly what pain and suffering is being caused and relishes it. He can never be reformed in my opinion. If you are that mean and psycopathic to begin with how does a few months in a prison "cure" you? In the future the man may be able to hide his meanness, but he will always be mean and useless to society as far as I am concerned. I hope the man never gets a job and suffers horribly. I know I shouldn't say that, but I can't help it.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
mike vick and his buddies didnt sit around and put cigarettes out on their backs or cut off their legs. they forced these dogs to fight.
Are you seriously saying that being forced to fight to the death in some cases or painful injury is better than having a cigarette put out on your back or your leg cut off? Can you not imagine being thrown into a pit with someone or something that you knew was being forced to hurt or kill you? And have no way out but to fight back? Until either you or he was dead or maimed? How can that be a forgiveable offense?
we are talking about pit bulls. pit bulls are animals. animals are not humans.
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
It seems that people are debating the difference between classes or types of crime. The difference is the mean and cruel intent that is involved. When someone drives drunk and hurts or kills someone else they should be punished. It is wrong to drive drunk and threaten others. When someone steals thousands of dollars from their employer it is wrong and they should be punished. But can these people be compared to Michael Vick and other sorts like him? No. Michael Vick was intentionally causing pain and death to others for pleasure and money. He did it over and over again. A person that drives drunk thinks that in the end nobody will get hurt. The person that imbezzles from his employer does not see the pain or loss that is being caused. But somebody like Michael Vick knows exactly what pain and suffering is being caused and relishes it. He can never be reformed in my opinion. If you are that mean and psycopathic to begin with how does a few months in a prison "cure" you? In the future the man may be able to hide his meanness, but he will always be mean and useless to society as far as I am concerned. I hope the man never gets a job and suffers horribly. I know I shouldn't say that, but I can't help it.
again, animals are not humans. to the best of my knowledge, Mike Vick never harmed a human being.
Has anyone mentioned Leonard Little yet...I mean he was convicted of manslaughter (while driving intoxicated) and then a mere six years later he was arrested for drunk driving again.
While he was plagued by injuries, he was, as of 2008, on the St. Louis Rams roster.
If Leo can get back in the NFL's good-graces, Michael will be the not-so-feel-good story of the season.
PBM
Post edited by PissBottleMan on
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
And humans don't fight to the death to survive? Give me a break. You don't really believe that, do you? Humans kill each other for lesser reasons than survival.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
And humans don't fight to the death to survive? Give me a break. You don't really believe that, do you? Humans kill each other for lesser reasons than survival.
you are trying to somehow equate animals and humans and you want me to give you a break? :roll:
I didn't "equate" humans and animals. My argument has absolutely nothing to do with the comparison values of humans and animals. It has to do with being mean, cruel, and useless to society.
Those that justify cruelty to animals ALWAYS use the allegation that the person arguing against cruelty is "equating humans and animals." Now you just need to throw in a few bible verses about man having superiority over all or something like that and you will fit the stereotype perfectly.
That's all. I'm out of this thread.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
I didn't "equate" humans and animals. My argument has absolutely nothing to do with the comparison values of humans and animals. It has to do with being mean, cruel, and useless to society.
mike vick and his buddies didnt sit around and put cigarettes out on their backs or cut off their legs. they forced these dogs to fight.
Are you seriously saying that being forced to fight to the death in some cases or painful injury is better than having a cigarette put out on your back or your leg cut off? Can you not imagine being thrown into a pit with someone or something that you knew was being forced to hurt or kill you? And have no way out but to fight back? Until either you or he was dead or maimed? How can that be a forgiveable offense?
you certainly seem to be equating them here. asking me if "I can imagine being thrown into a pit with someone". well no I cant really, humans dont fight in pits to the death.
Those that justify cruelty to animals ALWAYS use the allegation that the person arguing against cruelty is "equating humans and animals." Now you just need to throw in a few bible verses about man having superiority over all or something like that and you will fit the stereotype perfectly.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
And humans don't fight to the death to survive? Give me a break. You don't really believe that, do you? Humans kill each other for lesser reasons than survival.
Yeah, two things called politics and religion.
Post edited by dcfaithful on
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
And humans don't fight to the death to survive? Give me a break. You don't really believe that, do you? Humans kill each other for lesser reasons than survival.
It really, really is. There is a enormous list of things that are loathsome about society...but, it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Although I find killing people over something that is completely faith-based, unfathomable.
the beauty and absolute horrors of organized religion. That's another thread in itself :roll:
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
the days of children being able to look up to sport heroes...sadly, long, long gone it seems. despicable human being imo, a horrible example for children.....but as many have said, he legally served his time so legally i don't believe he should be blocked from returning to the sport. however, i wish sport franchises would block such individuals from being a part of their teams. tho i imagine he'll be back in the game, making his millions again.....
In the past, children looked up to sport heroes because the negative side of their lives wasn't publicized... Not talking just about Vick, but in general, there were some despicable people in the past, but no 24-hour sports networks, or paparazzi/bloggers following these guys around everyday all day.
Like any profession, there are good people and bad people... In sports, I don't really think that the ratio has changed all that much over the years.
oh i know that is the case, absolutely....and sure, it's the times we live in, easy access to such information on everyone. tho i do disagree, i think the ratio has changed, tho it's only my thoughts...i have no facts to prove it. then again, society also has changed dramatically, and encouraging/rewarding the 'lifestyle' many within sports, and other entertainments, has grown. now it seems to be 'ok' to be blatant about your $$$grab, etc. it's sad.
as to the whole arguement about equating animals and humans.....why not? just b/c we as a species, overall view ourselves as the most important doesn't make it so...nor does it make it *wrong* for someone to equate an animal's life with that of a human. obviously, i know that can be seen, and can be, extreme at times...but none the less....i dislike the argument that animals are 'less'...or that we should not imagine the idea of forcing humans to endure what he made these dog endure...b/c both are wrong, very much so. and no, i am not some militant animal rights activist, i am a meat eater, etc.....but you bet...i find cruelty for the sport of it reprehensible. and there is nothing *wrong* with me or others thinking that.
as to the whole arguement about equating animals and humans.....why not? just b/c we as a species, overall view ourselves as the most important doesn't make it so...nor does it make it *wrong* for someone to equate an animal's life with that of a human. obviously, i know that can be seen, and can be, extreme at times...but none the less....i dislike the argument that animals are 'less'...or that we should not imagine the idea of forcing humans to endure what he made these dog endure...b/c both are wrong, very much so. and no, i am not some militant animal rights activist, i am a meat eater, etc.....but you bet...i find cruelty for the sport of it reprehensible. and there is nothing *wrong* with me or others thinking that.
a meat eater huh? slaughter houses are a million times worse the dog fighting. often times the dog actually lives after a fighting career. in a slaughter house the survival rate is 0. but not before they are tortured down some assembly line.
humans and animals are not the same. animals are much "less" then humans. and there is no argument to say "how would you feel if you were in a dog fight". I dont know, humans do that I guess. its called boxing. then they shake hands once its over.
that said, I love dogs and animals as much as then next guy. I've recently been into macro photography of little bugs and even those I go out of my way not to hurt. just sayin, I know I'm going to be labeled some animal killer for not equating humans and animals
as to the whole arguement about equating animals and humans.....why not? just b/c we as a species, overall view ourselves as the most important doesn't make it so...nor does it make it *wrong* for someone to equate an animal's life with that of a human. obviously, i know that can be seen, and can be, extreme at times...but none the less....i dislike the argument that animals are 'less'...or that we should not imagine the idea of forcing humans to endure what he made these dog endure...b/c both are wrong, very much so. and no, i am not some militant animal rights activist, i am a meat eater, etc.....but you bet...i find cruelty for the sport of it reprehensible. and there is nothing *wrong* with me or others thinking that.
a meat eater huh? slaughter houses are a million times worse the dog fighting. often times the dog actually lives after a fighting career. in a slaughter house the survival rate is 0. but not before they are tortured down some assembly line.
humans and animals are not the same. animals are much "less" then humans. and there is no argument to say "how would you feel if you were in a dog fight". I dont know, humans do that I guess. its called boxing. then they shake hands once its over.
that said, I love dogs and animals as much as then next guy. I've recently been into macro photography of little bugs and even those I go out of my way not to hurt. just sayin, I know I'm going to be labeled some animal killer for not equating humans and animals
yes, i am well aware. while i am not condoning the hypocrisy of it, it is at least for food not for *entertainment*....and you are assuming that i don't buy free-range animals. overall, i don't...simply b/c cann't afford it, but just saying there are options, and i personally see killing animals from food in a very different light than forcing animals to fight for entertainment. i am not opposed to animals being used for food. lots of animals kill and eat other animals.....but i whole-heartedly agree our factory farming ways are cruel. however, that is another topic entirely.
humans and other animals are not the same, never said they were. no two animals are the same. we are all animals. just b/c we are higher up on the chain does not mean our lives are *worth* more...except to us. as to you considering them 'less' that is an opinion, not a fact. it all depends on what your categories for measurement are.
however, my main point is.....it IS absolutely OK to compare forcing 2 dogs to fight - and they ARE bred and forced to do so - to forcing 2 people to fight, possibly to the death. and both are absolutely WRONG. you're right dogs and many other animals can and do fight, oftentimes to the death...but normally of their own free will and with PURPOSE for themselves. same thing with humans. and to equate boxing with a dogfight is just wrong, they are NOT similar, at all...most especilly in the fact that boxing is not meant to end in death, and those participating do so of their own free will. if someone had a racket going, say bringing immigrants into this country and forcing them at gunpoint to fight each other to the death or they'd shoot them now....we all would be in an outrage, and rightly so. it is WRONG. it is wrong for humans...and it is wrong for dogs. no matter how you discuss it, it is wrong.
and this has nothing to do with my absolute love of dogs. i would say the same for anyone, any species...it is wrong.
as to the whole arguement about equating animals and humans.....why not? just b/c we as a species, overall view ourselves as the most important doesn't make it so...nor does it make it *wrong* for someone to equate an animal's life with that of a human. obviously, i know that can be seen, and can be, extreme at times...but none the less....i dislike the argument that animals are 'less'...or that we should not imagine the idea of forcing humans to endure what he made these dog endure...b/c both are wrong, very much so. and no, i am not some militant animal rights activist, i am a meat eater, etc.....but you bet...i find cruelty for the sport of it reprehensible. and there is nothing *wrong* with me or others thinking that.
a meat eater huh? slaughter houses are a million times worse the dog fighting. often times the dog actually lives after a fighting career. in a slaughter house the survival rate is 0. but not before they are tortured down some assembly line.
humans and animals are not the same. animals are much "less" then humans. and there is no argument to say "how would you feel if you were in a dog fight". I dont know, humans do that I guess. its called boxing. then they shake hands once its over.
that said, I love dogs and animals as much as then next guy. I've recently been into macro photography of little bugs and even those I go out of my way not to hurt. just sayin, I know I'm going to be labeled some animal killer for not equating humans and animals
yes, i am well aware. while i am not condoning the hypocrisy of it, it is at least for food not for *entertainment*....and you are assuming that i don't buy free-range animals. overall, i don't...simply b/c cann't afford it, but just saying there are options, and i personally see killing animals from food in a very different light than forcing animals to fight for entertainment. i am not opposed to animals being used for food. lots of animals kill and eat other animals.....but i whole-heartedly agree our factory farming ways are cruel. however, that is another topic entirely.
humans and other animals are not the same, never said they were. no two animals are the same. we are all animals. just b/c we are higher up on the chain does not mean our lives are *worth* more...except to us. as to you considering them 'less' that is an opinion, not a fact. it all depends on what your categories for measurement are.
however, my main point is.....it IS absolutely OK to compare forcing 2 dogs to fight - and they ARE bred and forced to do so - to forcing 2 people to fight, possibly to the death. and both are absolutely WRONG. you're right dogs and many other animals can and do fight, oftentimes to the death...but normally of their own free will and with PURPOSE for themselves. same thing with humans. and to equate boxing with a dogfight is just wrong, they are NOT similar, at all...most especilly in the fact that boxing is not meant to end in death, and those participating do so of their own free will. if someone had a racket going, say bringing immigrants into this country and forcing them at gunpoint to fight each other to the death or they'd shoot them now....we all would be in an outrage, and rightly so. it is WRONG. it is wrong for humans...and it is wrong for dogs. no matter how you discuss it, it is wrong.
and this has nothing to do with my absolute love of dogs. i would say the same for anyone, any species...it is wrong.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
decides2dream, I'm not saying letting dogs fight is ok. hope you didnt read my posts that way
oh no!
i know you didn't. i wouldn't even converse with you on the topic at all if i thought that, you'd not be worth talking to then. :P
seriously, it was more about the 'humans are better' or the idea that one isn't *supposed* to compare animals to humans, etc.....b/c i say, why not? there really is no good reason why not, except that we as a species deem ourselves more important. obviously, that makes total sense even on the most basic survival level, i bet on some level all animals do. but imo, the idea that we are *above* other animals is utter bunk imo. we're simply different. how we choose to live, how we interact with the world, etc.....yes, we have higher level thinking skills...but is that all we've got that makes us *better*.....? i mean, one could argue for or against that, depending on their perspective. so really, it was simply the idea that comparing dogfighting or humanfighting is not acceptible...well, i simply disagree....thus my scenario presented above. it is wrong to force ANYone, any species...to have to endure such things. the fact that a dog, or any animal, may sometimes choose such for themselves in no way makes it right to force them to.....and i say the same dog or human. i realize many do not share my perspective at all, and some think i am strange for having it. it's all cool. i could go on and on.....but i won't bore you, and i don't feel like it anyway......hahaha...but yea....i just see nothing wrong with the comparison of a human and another animal, that's all.
anyhoo...on topic, i think i already said that michael vick is a total piece of shit imo, but that in no way should interfere with his return to football, though i personally would love to see no one offer him a position. the game survived without him and would continue on well, no matter how great the athlete he may be.....but whatever *honor* there may still be in sports figures, well he simply does not represent it, so i'd be happy to see him left out, just not legally forced out.
one of my friends posted this on facebook and thought it would be a good idea to share it here. let all you animal lovers put your money where your mouth is
one of my friends posted this on facebook and thought it would be a good idea to share it here. let all you animal lovers put your money where your mouth is
put your $$$ where your mouth is?
for that site, which yes, i have bookmarked and visit regularly...all you need to do is "click to give"...hardly putting your $$$ where your mouth is. that said, you bet we give to animal organizations, tho really....even if we didn't doesn't mean one can't still fully believe all animals have certain rights - one can support that ideal in many ways, and many that don't include $$$.
anyhoo, that is a good site b/c it also links to great other 'click to give sites' that help support child literacy, breast cancer research, feeding the hungry...and of course, helping animals. ALL good things.
Comments
SHOULD he be allowed back in if a team wants to add him to their roster? ABSOLUTELY.
Look, if more punishment is required, then it's an issue for the courts and laws.
I'm an animal lover myself, but let's say he broke a different law such as armed robbery. After he served the debt required of him by the courts and laws, would people call for him to not be let back in?
Or another way. What if it was somebody who just had a general office job and they committed the same crimes Vick did. After they get out of prison, should we ban them from working?
I say leave it up to the individual entities.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
In the past, children looked up to sport heroes because the negative side of their lives wasn't publicized... Not talking just about Vick, but in general, there were some despicable people in the past, but no 24-hour sports networks, or paparazzi/bloggers following these guys around everyday all day.
Like any profession, there are good people and bad people... In sports, I don't really think that the ratio has changed all that much over the years.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Skippy here,
Agree to disagree, I guess, and I wasn't trying to single you out...but just trying to speak for my belief on the situation.
how do you compare dogfighting to animals fighting in the wild off of instinct? There is no ring leader in the wild that places bets on you to win an arranged fight.
Using an excuse like "I grew up this way, and didn't know any better" is a half-assed excuse, and if Vick chooses to use it then whatever, so be it. I guess it's his problem that he's plagued with ignorance and stupidity.
It just doesn't make sense to me...if OJ Simpson, Ted Bundy, and other really despicable people said "I didn't know any better, it's how I was raised and how I grew up." Would we then be so quick to say "Oh, well the poor stupid ass is just suffering from being sheltered from society and common sense."
Now I know that OJ and Bundy aren't exactly the same in comparison to Vick...but what difference does it make? Adults, children, animals? None should be treated the way that said people treated them.
Whatever, I'm wasting my breath. Vick will continue to be a professional athlete, becuase that is far more important than being humane. :roll:
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
Vick won't be banned from working, are you kidding me? Plenty of companies hire ex-cons. He may have just lost his chance to work in the NFL again...so what's the big deal? He has to take a huge pay cut and get used to the life that we all live: Not making millions of dollars for playing a sport. Welcome back to the real world, Mikey.
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
http://www.lcanimal.org/cmpgn/dog_fight ... ctment.pdf
Clause 83, page 17.
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
eeek. not good
Are you seriously saying that being forced to fight to the death in some cases or painful injury is better than having a cigarette put out on your back or your leg cut off? Can you not imagine being thrown into a pit with someone or something that you knew was being forced to hurt or kill you? And have no way out but to fight back? Until either you or he was dead or maimed? How can that be a forgiveable offense?
It seems that people are debating the difference between classes or types of crime. The difference is the mean and cruel intent that is involved. When someone drives drunk and hurts or kills someone else they should be punished. It is wrong to drive drunk and threaten others. When someone steals thousands of dollars from their employer it is wrong and they should be punished. But can these people be compared to Michael Vick and other sorts like him? No. Michael Vick was intentionally causing pain and death to others for pleasure and money. He did it over and over again. A person that drives drunk thinks that in the end nobody will get hurt. The person that imbezzles from his employer does not see the pain or loss that is being caused. But somebody like Michael Vick knows exactly what pain and suffering is being caused and relishes it. He can never be reformed in my opinion. If you are that mean and psycopathic to begin with how does a few months in a prison "cure" you? In the future the man may be able to hide his meanness, but he will always be mean and useless to society as far as I am concerned. I hope the man never gets a job and suffers horribly. I know I shouldn't say that, but I can't help it.
we are talking about pit bulls. pit bulls are animals. animals are not humans.
animals always fight to the death. take away humans from this earth and dogs will fight till the death to survive.
again, animals are not humans. to the best of my knowledge, Mike Vick never harmed a human being.
While he was plagued by injuries, he was, as of 2008, on the St. Louis Rams roster.
If Leo can get back in the NFL's good-graces, Michael will be the not-so-feel-good story of the season.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
And humans don't fight to the death to survive? Give me a break. You don't really believe that, do you? Humans kill each other for lesser reasons than survival.
you are trying to somehow equate animals and humans and you want me to give you a break? :roll:
Those that justify cruelty to animals ALWAYS use the allegation that the person arguing against cruelty is "equating humans and animals." Now you just need to throw in a few bible verses about man having superiority over all or something like that and you will fit the stereotype perfectly.
That's all. I'm out of this thread.
you certainly seem to be equating them here. asking me if "I can imagine being thrown into a pit with someone". well no I cant really, humans dont fight in pits to the death.
no one is justifying cruelty to animals.
see ya. this place isnt for the some, I understand
You're absolutely right.
Ray Lewis
Leonard Little
Pacman
The NFL has no integrity...
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
Yeah, two things called politics and religion.
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
so sad and true :(
It really, really is. There is a enormous list of things that are loathsome about society...but, it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Although I find killing people over something that is completely faith-based, unfathomable.
the beauty and absolute horrors of organized religion. That's another thread in itself :roll:
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
oh i know that is the case, absolutely....and sure, it's the times we live in, easy access to such information on everyone. tho i do disagree, i think the ratio has changed, tho it's only my thoughts...i have no facts to prove it. then again, society also has changed dramatically, and encouraging/rewarding the 'lifestyle' many within sports, and other entertainments, has grown. now it seems to be 'ok' to be blatant about your $$$grab, etc. it's sad.
as to the whole arguement about equating animals and humans.....why not? just b/c we as a species, overall view ourselves as the most important doesn't make it so...nor does it make it *wrong* for someone to equate an animal's life with that of a human. obviously, i know that can be seen, and can be, extreme at times...but none the less....i dislike the argument that animals are 'less'...or that we should not imagine the idea of forcing humans to endure what he made these dog endure...b/c both are wrong, very much so. and no, i am not some militant animal rights activist, i am a meat eater, etc.....but you bet...i find cruelty for the sport of it reprehensible. and there is nothing *wrong* with me or others thinking that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
a meat eater huh? slaughter houses are a million times worse the dog fighting. often times the dog actually lives after a fighting career. in a slaughter house the survival rate is 0. but not before they are tortured down some assembly line.
humans and animals are not the same. animals are much "less" then humans. and there is no argument to say "how would you feel if you were in a dog fight". I dont know, humans do that I guess. its called boxing. then they shake hands once its over.
that said, I love dogs and animals as much as then next guy. I've recently been into macro photography of little bugs and even those I go out of my way not to hurt. just sayin, I know I'm going to be labeled some animal killer for not equating humans and animals
yes, i am well aware. while i am not condoning the hypocrisy of it, it is at least for food not for *entertainment*....and you are assuming that i don't buy free-range animals. overall, i don't...simply b/c cann't afford it, but just saying there are options, and i personally see killing animals from food in a very different light than forcing animals to fight for entertainment. i am not opposed to animals being used for food. lots of animals kill and eat other animals.....but i whole-heartedly agree our factory farming ways are cruel. however, that is another topic entirely.
humans and other animals are not the same, never said they were. no two animals are the same. we are all animals. just b/c we are higher up on the chain does not mean our lives are *worth* more...except to us. as to you considering them 'less' that is an opinion, not a fact. it all depends on what your categories for measurement are.
however, my main point is.....it IS absolutely OK to compare forcing 2 dogs to fight - and they ARE bred and forced to do so - to forcing 2 people to fight, possibly to the death. and both are absolutely WRONG. you're right dogs and many other animals can and do fight, oftentimes to the death...but normally of their own free will and with PURPOSE for themselves. same thing with humans. and to equate boxing with a dogfight is just wrong, they are NOT similar, at all...most especilly in the fact that boxing is not meant to end in death, and those participating do so of their own free will. if someone had a racket going, say bringing immigrants into this country and forcing them at gunpoint to fight each other to the death or they'd shoot them now....we all would be in an outrage, and rightly so. it is WRONG. it is wrong for humans...and it is wrong for dogs. no matter how you discuss it, it is wrong.
and this has nothing to do with my absolute love of dogs. i would say the same for anyone, any species...it is wrong.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
oh no!
i know you didn't. i wouldn't even converse with you on the topic at all if i thought that, you'd not be worth talking to then. :P
seriously, it was more about the 'humans are better' or the idea that one isn't *supposed* to compare animals to humans, etc.....b/c i say, why not? there really is no good reason why not, except that we as a species deem ourselves more important. obviously, that makes total sense even on the most basic survival level, i bet on some level all animals do. but imo, the idea that we are *above* other animals is utter bunk imo. we're simply different. how we choose to live, how we interact with the world, etc.....yes, we have higher level thinking skills...but is that all we've got that makes us *better*.....? i mean, one could argue for or against that, depending on their perspective. so really, it was simply the idea that comparing dogfighting or humanfighting is not acceptible...well, i simply disagree....thus my scenario presented above. it is wrong to force ANYone, any species...to have to endure such things. the fact that a dog, or any animal, may sometimes choose such for themselves in no way makes it right to force them to.....and i say the same dog or human. i realize many do not share my perspective at all, and some think i am strange for having it. it's all cool. i could go on and on.....but i won't bore you, and i don't feel like it anyway......hahaha...but yea....i just see nothing wrong with the comparison of a human and another animal, that's all.
anyhoo...on topic, i think i already said that michael vick is a total piece of shit imo, but that in no way should interfere with his return to football, though i personally would love to see no one offer him a position. the game survived without him and would continue on well, no matter how great the athlete he may be.....but whatever *honor* there may still be in sports figures, well he simply does not represent it, so i'd be happy to see him left out, just not legally forced out.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clic ... s?siteId=3
---
put your $$$ where your mouth is?
for that site, which yes, i have bookmarked and visit regularly...all you need to do is "click to give"...hardly putting your $$$ where your mouth is. that said, you bet we give to animal organizations, tho really....even if we didn't doesn't mean one can't still fully believe all animals have certain rights - one can support that ideal in many ways, and many that don't include $$$.
anyhoo, that is a good site b/c it also links to great other 'click to give sites' that help support child literacy, breast cancer research, feeding the hungry...and of course, helping animals. ALL good things.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow