Obama blocks release of detainee abuse photos

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

know1 wrote:

Hmmm....Bush/Obama/Not much difference.

yeah isnt' that avatar of Bush/Obama fitting?


not much changes on election day. some things do, and that's important, but overall, hard to tell the difference.

know1 wrote:

Hmmm....Bush/Obama/Not much difference.

the biggest different between Bush and Obama is Obama's less aggressive policy towards other countries of the world (except Afghanistan which most Americans support). and Obama's ability to regain respect in the world.

those changes alone are good enough for me.

KDH12

JB811 wrote:

Somehow I'm thinking if Bush were still President most of you would be singing a different tune and demanding the release of the photos.

Same old same old.

yes because bush is the reason those photos exist if it was not for the dumb ass we wouldn't even be having this conversation

If you daughter stole some candy from the store why would you get mad at your son?

KDH12

musicismylife78 wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

halszka123 wrote:

Abookamongstthemany said:



The photos would spark outrage and get people more actively involved with bringing this kind of thing to an end. A picture says 1000 words and really brings the issue home most of the time. We all know the horrific photos taken during Vietnam are the ones that haunt us to this day and remain forever scarred into our memory. It's time you guys quit excusing everything Obama does does just to cheer on your team and your man. Wrong is wrong and the photos do not need to be swept under the rug....their ugliness needs to be exposed for all to see and judge. So many Americans don't bother to read shit other than the headlines. These pictures are guaranteed to get attention and spark even more of an outcry on this issue....and that is sorely needed.

People, young kids and innocent bystanders are shot in the streets of Chicago everyday, do think if photos of dead bodies in the streets would stop the violence and bring communities together? NO
The problems and solutions are much deeper then just putting out some photos, besides I do not trust the media enough to be responsible with them.

Vietnam is a counterexample that proves you wrong. The tv news footage of fighting in vietnam, the photos of the girl being napalmed, the vietnam man being shot, the photo of the dead kent state protester, all contributed to the public souring on vietnam.

Just look at what the photo of Michael Phelps did in a way more benign example.

Pictures are powerful. Sure, seeing some photos, wont magically bring the troops home, but I do think it only helps.

you are comparing apples and oranges really

if Obama had secret photos of the genocide in Sudan I would say yes release

but since he has some photos of some soldiers pouring water on a detainee (don't mean to minimize torture/abuse so forgive me) then he should just keep those out of the public realm

the key is this

WE ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE PHOTOS THAT WE DO NOT ALREADY KNOW.... so what is the point?

it is not going to end any war, the photos of Iraqi prisoners did not end a damn thing.

g under p

KDH12 wrote:

you are comparing apples and oranges really

if Obama had secret photos of the genocide in Sudan I would say yes release

but since he has some photos of some soldiers pouring water on a detainee (don't mean to minimize torture/abuse so forgive me) then he should just keep those out of the public realm

the key is this

WE ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE PHOTOS THAT WE DO NOT ALREADY KNOW.... so what is the point?

it is not going to end any war, the photos of Iraqi prisoners did not end a damn thing.

Or maybe there is.....

AMY GOODMAN: Wait. Let’s talk about that, because this is very significant. It’s only been framed as, well, this could incite people. Explain the turnaround, if you can, or what the significance of it is, by Obama saying he would release the photographs, because he cared about transparency, and now he’s saying he’s going to hold onto it. This is after visits, reportedly, from General Odierno and now the fired General McKiernan.


JOHN SIFTON: Well, the photographs are obviously very important, but they’re just one side of the coin. There are large amounts of CIA internal documents from the inspector general’s report that the CIA prepared about detainee abuse. There’s a lot of stuff there, a lot of material that Obama can consider releasing. The photographs, obviously, are very important. It’s good that we’re paying attention to them. But the real evidence that shows the way these techniques spread and the involvement of senior Bush administration officials, that’s not photographs. Those are memos. Those are CIA cables from black sites to Langley, notes from meetings between Langley and the White House, things like that.

.....Human Rights Investigator, Attorney John Sifton: Torture Investigation Should Focus on Estimated 100 Prisoner Deaths....I'm not saying Obama should but maybe there's more to this story than there appears to be.

Peace

Sludge Factory

Looks like some photos are leaking anyway:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html

KDH12

Sludge Factory wrote:

Looks like some photos are leaking anyway:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ation.html

Figured that would happen however the article does say...

"but are now believed to be among those the president is trying to block."

seems that they do not even know if those are the pictures

KDH12

g under p wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

you are comparing apples and oranges really

if Obama had secret photos of the genocide in Sudan I would say yes release

but since he has some photos of some soldiers pouring water on a detainee (don't mean to minimize torture/abuse so forgive me) then he should just keep those out of the public realm

the key is this

WE ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE PHOTOS THAT WE DO NOT ALREADY KNOW.... so what is the point?

it is not going to end any war, the photos of Iraqi prisoners did not end a damn thing.

Or maybe there is.....

AMY GOODMAN: Wait. Let’s talk about that, because this is very significant. It’s only been framed as, well, this could incite people. Explain the turnaround, if you can, or what the significance of it is, by Obama saying he would release the photographs, because he cared about transparency, and now he’s saying he’s going to hold onto it. This is after visits, reportedly, from General Odierno and now the fired General McKiernan.


JOHN SIFTON: Well, the photographs are obviously very important, but they’re just one side of the coin. There are large amounts of CIA internal documents from the inspector general’s report that the CIA prepared about detainee abuse. There’s a lot of stuff there, a lot of material that Obama can consider releasing. The photographs, obviously, are very important. It’s good that we’re paying attention to them. But the real evidence that shows the way these techniques spread and the involvement of senior Bush administration officials, that’s not photographs. Those are memos. Those are CIA cables from black sites to Langley, notes from meetings between Langley and the White House, things like that.

.....Human Rights Investigator, Attorney John Sifton: Torture Investigation Should Focus on Estimated 100 Prisoner Deaths....I'm not saying Obama should but maybe there's more to this story than there appears to be.

Peace

who is to say that there is not investigations going on and it seems to me that Obama is trying to bring these sort of things to an end

however does everything need to be done and hashed out in the media? Obama is getting in trouble with this whole transparency issue which I think he has improved on this whole governmental transparency however we can not know everything all the time.

do think there are things your boss dose not tell you at work? there is probably a good reason for it too.

cornnifer

i havn't read all the posts in this thread but i agree with anyone who has said this is probably the best decision. What is the point in satisfying the sick voyeuristic appetites of people who already have a clear enough idea of what happened? Face it. Thats all it is. Sick fucks will just have to whack off to something else. Try porn or something. Besides, why provide propaganda recruitment pieces to every jihadist in the world. Yeah, THAT would be responsible. :roll:
Good call O.

musicismylife78

find it funny your avatar is john brown. You think John Brown would be for "not" releasing photos of the treatment of slaves back in the day?

Hell no. He would be at the front lines and barricades demanding their release.

cornnifer

musicismylife78 wrote:

find it funny your avatar is john brown. You think John Brown would be for "not" releasing photos of the treatment of slaves back in the day?

Hell no. He would be at the front lines and barricades demanding their release.

You make a point but i will only partially concede. In all due respect, you compare apples with oranges. The situations are not the same. First of all the slavery situation was purely domestic. Slave photos would have maybe benefitted the abolitionist cause, thats true. You have to tell me who would benefit from grotesque Gitmo torture photos being released to the general public. The prisoners? Gitmo is already being closed. American safety is of a concern and releasing these photos will only serve to provide jihadist recruiters with AMPLE recruitment tools. Any attempt to repair our standing in the world will be completely derailed. John Brown was not dealing with that kind of situation. The two situations are light years apart, really.

adropinthepark

Photos are a part of history. There is more to it than the here and now. They should be published for those who do not 'know' or perhaps have a skewed perception of what we allowed to happen for so long. Things that will, for the most part, go unpunished.

LikeAnOcean

halszka123 wrote:

Abookamongstthemany said:



The photos would spark outrage and get people more actively involved with bringing this kind of thing to an end. A picture says 1000 words and really brings the issue home most of the time. We all know the horrific photos taken during Vietnam are the ones that haunt us to this day and remain forever scarred into our memory. It's time you guys quit excusing everything Obama does does just to cheer on your team and your man. Wrong is wrong and the photos do not need to be swept under the rug....their ugliness needs to be exposed for all to see and judge. So many Americans don't bother to read shit other than the headlines. These pictures are guaranteed to get attention and spark even more of an outcry on this issue....and that is sorely needed.

But, isn't Obama bringing it to an end anyways? What would be the point of releasing the pictures?

Honestly, I think they should be released, but I'm not sure it would do any good. They would just get sick people off and remind others how cruel the human race is. I honestly don't think they would change things.

Commy

LikeAnOcean wrote:

halszka123 wrote:

Abookamongstthemany said:



The photos would spark outrage and get people more actively involved with bringing this kind of thing to an end. A picture says 1000 words and really brings the issue home most of the time. We all know the horrific photos taken during Vietnam are the ones that haunt us to this day and remain forever scarred into our memory. It's time you guys quit excusing everything Obama does does just to cheer on your team and your man. Wrong is wrong and the photos do not need to be swept under the rug....their ugliness needs to be exposed for all to see and judge. So many Americans don't bother to read shit other than the headlines. These pictures are guaranteed to get attention and spark even more of an outcry on this issue....and that is sorely needed.

But, isn't Obama bringing it to an end anyways? What would be the point of releasing the pictures?

Honestly, I think they should be released, but I'm not sure it would do any good. They would just get sick people off and remind others how cruel the human race is. I honestly don't think they would change things.

it might wake some people up to reality. maybe the next time the US decides to declare war on the next akistan people will be a little more informed, and not be so quick to blindly support the US government.

its information. that's it.

musicismylife78

the government has no right to tell me what pictures I can and cant see. We arent talking deviant behavior people. This is government sponsored and backed torture.

I find it hard to believe how many people on here are against releasing the photos. Should they be mandatory viewing? No. But I dont think Obama has any right or Bush or anyone else to block these photos. You think the government would hold onto photos of the terrorists torturing americans? You think we would even be having this debate. Those suckers would be posted on every flag waving website and television show known to man and the terrorists responsible would be killed in a bomb blast initiated by american forces.

Again, Obama, the supposed opposition party candidate and leader, isnt releasing photos of abuse that occured during the bush era, why? Because him and his ilk, the Reids and Pelousy's of the world were the same people who knew about and tacitly patted bush on the shoulder when info came to light that

Again, Pelosi, is rumored to have said, "is that enough?", when told and shown about waterboarding in 2002.

You really think any of these incompetent fools care one iota about if any troops get murdered over the release of these photos.

Look folks, troops get killed either way. One way, the obama way, means troops stay where they are. The "musicismylife78 way", means photos are released, those in the photos are fired, fined and jailed, and the troops come home immediately.

Gee I wonder what one I lean more towards....

Commy

musicismylife78 wrote:

Again, Obama, the supposed opposition party candidate and leader,

good point.

i can't tell the difference between Obama's foreign policy and Bush's. less torture, but still no accountability for those that did the torturing. still war...always war. still supporting all the dicatotrs and oppressive governments around the world. sitll giving $50 +billion to black ops.

so much for change we can believe in.


"yes we can", but we're not going to, apparently.

inmytree

musicismylife78 wrote:

Look folks, troops get killed either way. One way, the obama way, means troops stay where they are. The "musicismylife78 way", means photos are released, those in the photos are fired, fined and jailed, and the troops come home immediately.

Gee I wonder what one I lean more towards....

you really think the releasing of these photos would immediately end the war...? I have to ask "how"?

cornnifer

musicismylife78 wrote:

the government has no right to tell me what pictures I can and cant see. We arent talking deviant behavior people. This is government sponsored and backed torture.

I find it hard to believe how many people on here are against releasing the photos. Should they be mandatory viewing? No. But I dont think Obama has any right or Bush or anyone else to block these photos. You think the government would hold onto photos of the terrorists torturing americans? You think we would even be having this debate. Those suckers would be posted on every flag waving website and television show known to man and the terrorists responsible would be killed in a bomb blast initiated by american forces.

Again, Obama, the supposed opposition party candidate and leader, isnt releasing photos of abuse that occured during the bush era, why? Because him and his ilk, the Reids and Pelousy's of the world were the same people who knew about and tacitly patted bush on the shoulder when info came to light that

Again, Pelosi, is rumored to have said, "is that enough?", when told and shown about waterboarding in 2002.

You really think any of these incompetent fools care one iota about if any troops get murdered over the release of these photos.

Look folks, troops get killed either way. One way, the obama way, means troops stay where they are. The "musicismylife78 way", means photos are released, those in the photos are fired, fined and jailed, and the troops come home immediately.

Gee I wonder what one I lean more towards....

You just answered your own question. If these photos are released they will be posted all over the al jazeera network and every jihadist in the world would be screaming "death to America" while hundreds of thousands are strapping bombs to their chests and hopping in line to join their ranks.
Those of us outraged by the abuses are already so and will not be any more so after seeing photos. We already know what happened and that's enough for us. Those who aren't outraged will not be joining our side once THEY see them. They already know what happened and are seemingly o.k. with it.
Again, the only ones that benefit are jihadist organizers. period. Obama may be the alleged "opposition party candidate", but he is also president of the United States charged with keeping America safe, reversing some of Bush's fuck ups and repairing our world image. Releasing these photos will not accomplish ANY of that. Just the opposite in fact.
Those in the photos can still be fired and arrested without the public and the rest of the world seeing the photos. That is a weak argument. If you have such an insatiable desire to see a bunch of sick shit, why not just rent "Saw XIV".

WaveCameCrashin

cornnifer wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

the government has no right to tell me what pictures I can and cant see. We arent talking deviant behavior people. This is government sponsored and backed torture.

I find it hard to believe how many people on here are against releasing the photos. Should they be mandatory viewing? No. But I dont think Obama has any right or Bush or anyone else to block these photos. You think the government would hold onto photos of the terrorists torturing americans? You think we would even be having this debate. Those suckers would be posted on every flag waving website and television show known to man and the terrorists responsible would be killed in a bomb blast initiated by american forces.

Again, Obama, the supposed opposition party candidate and leader, isnt releasing photos of abuse that occured during the bush era, why? Because him and his ilk, the Reids and Pelousy's of the world were the same people who knew about and tacitly patted bush on the shoulder when info came to light that

Again, Pelosi, is rumored to have said, "is that enough?", when told and shown about waterboarding in 2002.

You really think any of these incompetent fools care one iota about if any troops get murdered over the release of these photos.

Look folks, troops get killed either way. One way, the obama way, means troops stay where they are. The "musicismylife78 way", means photos are released, those in the photos are fired, fined and jailed, and the troops come home immediately.

Gee I wonder what one I lean more towards....

You just answered your own question. If these photos are released they will be posted all over the al jazeera network and every jihadist in the world would be screaming "death to America" while hundreds of thousands are strapping bombs to their chests and hopping in line to join their ranks.
Those of us outraged by the abuses are already so and will not be any more so after seeing photos. We already know what happened and that's enough for us. Those who aren't outraged will not be joining our side once THEY see them. They already know what happened and are seemingly o.k. with it.
Again, the only ones that benefit are jihadist organizers. period. Obama may be the alleged "opposition party candidate", but he is also president of the United States charged with keeping America safe, reversing some of Bush's fuck ups and repairing our world image. Releasing these photos will not accomplish ANY of that. Just the opposite in fact.
Those in the photos can still be fired and arrested without the public and the rest of the world seeing the photos. That is a weak argument. If you have such an insatiable desire to see a bunch of sick shit, why not just rent "Saw XIV".

Point on Cornnifer..