Obama blocks release of detainee abuse photos

musicismylife78

KDH12 wrote:

halszka123 wrote:

Abookamongstthemany said:



The photos would spark outrage and get people more actively involved with bringing this kind of thing to an end. A picture says 1000 words and really brings the issue home most of the time. We all know the horrific photos taken during Vietnam are the ones that haunt us to this day and remain forever scarred into our memory. It's time you guys quit excusing everything Obama does does just to cheer on your team and your man. Wrong is wrong and the photos do not need to be swept under the rug....their ugliness needs to be exposed for all to see and judge. So many Americans don't bother to read shit other than the headlines. These pictures are guaranteed to get attention and spark even more of an outcry on this issue....and that is sorely needed.

People, young kids and innocent bystanders are shot in the streets of Chicago everyday, do think if photos of dead bodies in the streets would stop the violence and bring communities together? NO
The problems and solutions are much deeper then just putting out some photos, besides I do not trust the media enough to be responsible with them.

Vietnam is a counterexample that proves you wrong. The tv news footage of fighting in vietnam, the photos of the girl being napalmed, the vietnam man being shot, the photo of the dead kent state protester, all contributed to the public souring on vietnam.

Just look at what the photo of Michael Phelps did in a way more benign example.

Pictures are powerful. Sure, seeing some photos, wont magically bring the troops home, but I do think it only helps.

musicismylife78

jlew24asu wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

the fact of the matter the war on terrorism isnt just and moral in any context whether its Clinton, Bush, Kerry or Obama leading the charge.

The Taliban didnt kill 3,000 people for no reason. They had a reason, however much mainstream america disagrees with such a message. They were and have been entirely clear about what they wanted and what they want. My thinking, I know its outrageous folks, is to listen to what they have to say! How absurd!

The war on terrorism is as misguided as every other "war" that has ever been fought. The war on drugs. on poverty, on communism. You simply cant end any of those with guns and bombs, but thats exactly what mainstream society thinks will end it.

ok, how do you propose we deal with the Taliban and fundamentalist Islam? you probably shouldnt answer that until you know a little bit about them. its clear that you dont

How do you know that?

I do know that the bombing and bullets that have reigned on them for 8 plus years hasnt done anything to stop people from hating america and hasnt ended terrorism. What makes you think continuing a war, a war lets be clear that you are unwilling to fight in, will end terrorism? Man up and enlist friend. Or else, help us to bring those troops home, to be around loved ones, where they belong!

Commy

musicismylife78 wrote:

[the war on terror is like a war on racism]


Its like trying to end racism. That to me is a good idea. A worthy cause. But how does one accomplish such a feat? Do you bomb and murder all the white supremacists? Say we were able to identify and murder all the major white supremacists in America, would racism end that day? Would we be rid of racism forever?

that may be the best analogy regarding the war on terror i've seen.


you have to end the motivation for it in the first place, the cause of it, something you can't do with bullets and bombs and jets and tanks.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Its like trying to end racism. That to me is a good idea. A worthy cause. But how does one accomplish such a feat? Do you bomb and murder all the white supremacists? Say we were able to identify and murder all the major white supremacists in America, would racism end that day? Would we be rid of racism forever?

with this attitude the Nazis would still be around. the questions you pose are good ones. see my thread about what to do with the Taliban. your solution is to leave and send an apology note. which only leads me to believe you haven't the slightest clue as to who the Taliban are or what fundamentalist Islam is. I'll agree a new strategy is needed, but leaving and letting the Taliban and extremist have free reign is not the answer.

The Nazis were a political party in charge of a state.

Terrorism is an idea. Its a scattered group of groups, a word that describes anything from violent religious fundamentalism to a guerilla fighters resisting occupation.


not the same thing at all. not even close.


musicismylife78 solution doesn't not involve violence, it does not mean its not effective. probably more effective.

jlew24asu

musicismylife78 wrote:

My point is neither of us is serving. You arent and I am not. I always find it interesting those who are so gung ho and pro war never serve. If you feel its such a just war, why didnt you sign up after 9/11? Why arent you down at the induction center as we speak, trying get on the next troop flight to afghanistan? Frankly its hypocrisy at its best, and your posts seem to reek to high heaven of it.

If I was asked to serve I would. I wouldnt run and hide like you. I can support our troops and government for protecting us while not running and signing up for the military. I have a career and family to take care of. and I am not a hypocrite, and I suggest you stop with the insults.

musicismylife78 wrote:

I am 25, and I do remember 9/11. I remember being antiwar. I remember being in antiwar demonstrations after 9/11. I remember even the peaceniks of old, the old hippies, those who had protested vietnam, putting flags in their windows post 9/11. And I remember not understanding that. I still dont. And I remember an english teacher forcing me to stand during the pledge of alligience, this sometime in 2001-2003.

I dont believe in war. I dont believe its right to send troops to another country and bomb innocent people. I just dont. Obviously you operate under a different set of values.

we were attacked on 9/11. what dont you understand about that? I feel sorry if you were ever attacked personally, you are very weak.

musicismylife78 wrote:

Soldiers may choose to sign up for iraq or afghanistan, as its an all volunteer army, but they sure as HELL dont sign up to be forced to go back to iraq and afghanistan. Thats something YOU seem to have a hard time understanding jlew. These soldiers arent serving one tour and then coming home. Its 3 or 4 tours, 5 tours. And thats obviously a unspeakable and disturbing experience.

I understand just fine. trust me. they know whats involved when serving during war time. 3-5 tours is NO surprise to anyone.

musicismylife78 wrote:

So my point is this: your for the war. Great. Sign up. Enlist. Its easy to be for war when you arent fighting it. If its such a just cause, quit your job, sell the home and enlist. Simple stuff jlew.

like I said, if I was asked to serve I would. and I am not "for the war". I am for my government protecting me. that is their job.

musicismylife78 wrote:

I live my principles. I always have and always will. I dont talk one way then act another. I am antiwar, and conduct my life as such.

what happens if someone brings war to you? for example, I walk up to you and punch you in the face, throw you to the ground, and beat to crap out of you. what do you do? protest?

musicismylife78 wrote:

Actually I do know about the Taliban. I read Al Jazzera. I have read their statements. To know about them, you need to know their message. And friend, they had a message, and it certainly wasnt "we hate your freedom".

Ultimately, it comes down to, the question, "if you could shoot and kill Bin Laden and all the Taliban, but would end up also killing innocent civilians with that bomb, would you go ahead". For me, the answer is no, because who are we to decide who is to be killed and who isnt.

Was the death of 140,000 and 80,000 in hiroshima and nagasaki acceptable in order to end the war and stop the Japanese? My answer will always be no. Your answer obviously would be yes.

would you kill 1 to save 100 or let the 100 die to save 1 ?

musicismylife78 wrote:

To understand the mindset of Bin laden or the Taliban you have to understand what Madeline Albright, the Secretary of State under Clinton said. Were the sanctions against Iraq that resulted in 500,000 iraqis dying, worth the cost? Yes she said.

So according to Albright, the death of Iraqis are meaningless.

Gee I wonder why insurgents are blowing up our troops?

like I said, we both agree the Iraq was is wrong..moving on...

musicismylife78 wrote:

And its the same war Jlew! Bush never differenciated between Iraq and Afghanistan. It was the same war to him. Its all an effort to end terrorism.

I dont give a fuck what Bush says. Bush isnt in office anymore and the wars are not the same. Iraq isnt even a war, its nation building.

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Its like trying to end racism. That to me is a good idea. A worthy cause. But how does one accomplish such a feat? Do you bomb and murder all the white supremacists? Say we were able to identify and murder all the major white supremacists in America, would racism end that day? Would we be rid of racism forever?

with this attitude the Nazis would still be around. the questions you pose are good ones. see my thread about what to do with the Taliban. your solution is to leave and send an apology note. which only leads me to believe you haven't the slightest clue as to who the Taliban are or what fundamentalist Islam is. I'll agree a new strategy is needed, but leaving and letting the Taliban and extremist have free reign is not the answer.

The Nazis were a political party in charge of a state.

Terrorism is an idea. Its a scattered group of groups, a word that describes anything from violent religious fundamentalism to a guerilla fighters resisting occupation.


not the same thing at all. not even close.


musicismylife78 solution doesn't not involve violence, it does not mean its not effective. probably more effective.

I'm talking about the Taliban. they are a group, not an idea. as for terrorism, I dont think military is the only answer by any means.

Anon

Somehow I'm thinking if Bush were still President most of you would be singing a different tune and demanding the release of the photos.

Same old same old.

Dirtie_Frank

musicismylife78 wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

I I am 25, and I do remember 9/11. I remember being antiwar. I remember being in antiwar demonstrations after 9/11. I remember even the peaceniks of old, the old hippies, those who had protested vietnam, putting flags in their windows post 9/11. And I remember not understanding that. I still dont. And I remember an english teacher forcing me to stand during the pledge of alligience, this sometime in 2001-2003.

So you do not understand why people came together after the tragedy? Why were you forced to stand up during the pledge of allegience? Are you that anti-war that you are anti-america? Why do you still live here if this place is so messed up? I question things but that is what is great about this country I call home. I can question what our government does and not get in trouble for it.

musicismylife78

So you do not understand why people came together after the tragedy? Why were you forced to stand up during the pledge of allegience? Are you that anti-war that you are anti-america? Why do you still live here if this place is so messed up? I question things but that is what is great about this country I call home. I can question what our government does and not get in trouble for it.[/quote]


I can understand people coming together but will never support a country or military or government that values money and bombs over human life.

Would you, given the chance also ask these questions of Ed and the band? Or are you to weak and snot nosed, that you hid behind a computer and call me an antiamerican, but when push comes to shove, you dont put the petal to the metal.

By the way, did you serve? Are you enlisted? And if not why?

I see no reason why those who support the war on this board, shouldnt be at the induction center as we speak.

If you feel the war is just, fine, put your money where you mouth is and man up!

Dirtie_Frank

musicismylife78 wrote:

So you do not understand why people came together after the tragedy? Why were you forced to stand up during the pledge of allegience? Are you that anti-war that you are anti-america? Why do you still live here if this place is so messed up? I question things but that is what is great about this country I call home. I can question what our government does and not get in trouble for it.

I can understand people coming together but will never support a country or military or government that values money and bombs over human life.

Would you, given the chance also ask these questions of Ed and the band? Or are you to weak and snot nosed, that you hid behind a computer and call me an antiamerican, but when push comes to shove, you dont put the petal to the metal.

By the way, did you serve? Are you enlisted? And if not why?

I see no reason why those who support the war on this board, shouldnt be at the induction center as we speak.

If you feel the war is just, fine, put your money where you mouth is and man up![/quote]

Man up I have seen more of Iraq then you can imagine. you call me weak and snot nosed where do you live. I'll knock on your door with my boots and call you anti-american. I don't say shit to Ed and the band, well becasue they are not in the white pages for me to look up and talk to. Why don't you walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement you ignorant POS.

Sludge Factory

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Man up I have seen more of Iraq then you can imagine. you call me weak and snot nosed where do you live. I'll knock on your door with my boots and call you anti-american. I don't say shit to Ed and the band, well becasue they are not in the white pages for me to look up and talk to. Why don't you walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement you ignorant POS.

Let's get one thing straight: just because someone is anti-war does NOT make them anti-American.

Dirtie_Frank

Sludge Factory wrote:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

So you do not understand why people came together after the tragedy? Why were you forced to stand up during the pledge of allegience? Are you that anti-war that you are anti-america? Why do you still live here if this place is so messed up? I question things but that is what is great about this country I call home. I can question what our government does and not get in trouble for it.

I can understand people coming together but will never support a country or military or government that values money and bombs over human life.

Would you, given the chance also ask these questions of Ed and the band? Or are you to weak and snot nosed, that you hid behind a computer and call me an antiamerican, but when push comes to shove, you dont put the petal to the metal.

By the way, did you serve? Are you enlisted? And if not why?

I see no reason why those who support the war on this board, shouldnt be at the induction center as we speak.

If you feel the war is just, fine, put your money where you mouth is and man up!

Man up I have seen more of Iraq then you can imagine. you call me weak and snot nosed where do you live. I'll knock on your door with my boots and call you anti-american. I don't say shit to Ed and the band, well becasue they are not in the white pages for me to look up and talk to. Why don't you walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement you ignorant POS.

Let's get one thing straight: just because someone is anti-war does NOT make them anti-American.[/quote]

I understand that, but questioning why people hung flags after9/11 and refusing to stand during the pledge, leads me to belive that, not the anti-war thing.

FYI I asked him if he was so anti-war is he anti-America? I did not call him that he just assumed I did.

Sludge Factory

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I understand that, but questioning why people hung flags after9/11 and refusing to stand during the pledge, leads me to belive that, not the anti-war thing.

FYI I asked him if he was so anti-war is he anti-America? I did not call him that he just assumed I did.

Well, I think questioning things and not standing for the pledge doesn't necessarily make him anti-American.

You mean this?

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

So you do not understand why people came together after the tragedy? Why were you forced to stand up during the pledge of allegience? Are you that anti-war that you are anti-america? Why do you still live here if this place is so messed up? I question things but that is what is great about this country I call home. I can question what our government does and not get in trouble for it.

I missed that my first time around, my bad. All I saw was this:

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Man up I have seen more of Iraq then you can imagine. you call me weak and snot nosed where do you live. I'll knock on your door with my boots and call you anti-american. I don't say shit to Ed and the band, well becasue they are not in the white pages for me to look up and talk to. Why don't you walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement you ignorant POS.

Which made me think you were calling him anti-american since you said you would knock on his door with your boots and call him that.

musicismylife78

what a man dirtie frank. I am so scared! I am trembling in my house as we speak.

Please mr Frank, dont come to my house with your boots! Oh my god dont do that!

musicismylife78

such a strong strong man

Dirtie_Frank

musicismylife78 wrote:

such a strong strong man

You said I was scared behind my computer. Well I let you know I would tell you to your face. I am not really gonna knock on you door. It is what we call a metaphor. You asked me if I served, well I answered but you have no response. Like I said walk a mile before you speak on what you think the troops want.

inmytree

JB811 wrote:

Somehow I'm thinking if Bush were still President most of you would be singing a different tune and demanding the release of the photos.

Same old same old.

somehow, I'm thinking you'd be praising Obama for his decision to not release the photos...

Same old same old....

inmytree

I do have to ask those who want these photos released: Do you really think the release of these photos would end the war(s) any sooner? If so, how....?


please note, I'm "anti-war" and I walked the streets to protest the invasion of Irak with many others. With that said, I don't see any immediate good coming from these photos....I see them opening old wounds and causing more violence, which will keep our troops in combat longer...heck, look at this thread...it seems like 2003 all over again...

I want this crap over, too...I just don't think it's so easy to just pack up and leave...

know1

Hmmm....Bush/Obama/Not much difference.

Commy

know1 wrote:

Hmmm....Bush/Obama/Not much difference.

yeah isnt' that avatar of Bush/Obama fitting?


not much changes on election day. some things do, and that's important, but overall, hard to tell the difference.