MATT'S CRAPPY DRUM SOUND

12345AGNST1

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

OceansJenny

Space Monkey wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

he can't hold a candle to dave a. though.. but then again, who can?

Just about anyone.

AGREE. Can't we ever talk about Matt without someone bringing up their eternal love for Dave A? It's been a long time since 1994 - get over it!

CJMST3K

EBowie wrote:

Matt is the most talented drummer that has ever been in Pearl Jam! The folks who think they're pointing out mistakes are really just demonstrating that their ear for drumming just isn't there.

Yeah... that must be it. :roll:



Anywho, since I spent a good amount of time recently on this same topic, I'm going to post my response from another similar thread. Feel free to read it, see the youtube comparisons, and judge for yourself.

dreamweaver wrote:

matt is a better player than dave, imo... and pearl jam has played/ put on much better shows in the past decade than most shows in the early nineties. their sound is warmer and they play together much much better. I can understand why people jump on that stupid fuckin dave a. bandwagon though.. only because he set up his cymbals to look cool while he bashes on them the whole time.

...sigh...

How about we do an "apples to apples" comparison, and just base this on the music... deal?

Dave just posted new video of Blood.

I actually don't like how he has all the splashes and such, so for me your assessment of "only because he set up his cymbals to look cool" is way off. Frankly I think he looks a little too "metal" when he plays... but then again, i'm not judging by looks, as you are suggesting. I'm judging strictly by the music.

Dave just posted this video camera footage of him playing. From this angle, you can't see the cymbals very well, so you'll just have to pay attention to the actual playing.


Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page

Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.



Here's Jack playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ

Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.



Here's Matt playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw

I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.


Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.

For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.

In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt



edit: However dreamweaver, I will agree that on new records, I enjoy Matt's approach. Even simple songs like Light Years sound better with Matt than they probably would have with Dave. I'm commenting strictly on the pre-Matt material, particularly Vs & Vitalogy... and some of Ten and No Code.

Gary Carter

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I thought he changed his drum kit after the 00 tour.

12345AGNST1

metsfan wrote:

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I thought he changed his drum kit after the 00 tour.

He did, but hes been using the same setup since 03. His drums sound "like shit" on boots but sounded good on VH1 because of better recording, not different tuning/drums.

oh and the ending of "Blood" is ten times better now then it used to be. Those fills at the end are freakin awesome.

CJMST3K

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I'd think of it the other way around though.

At a TV broadcast, they're probably not using their particular choice of microphone set-up for the drums as they do for their own tour, nor their preferred sound company and board engineer.

Wouldn't their own tour have the "best" set-up, based specifically on their preferences? Wouldn't they prefer to use the best setup? TV probably had one sound company handle all of the mic needs, and it wouldn't be as specific for MC's needs as "Rat Sound" uses, and they would have a separate sound engineer that is not PJ's person, to handle the sound mix for TV.

As far as mixing goes, there may lay the difference.

CJMST3K

12345AGNST1 wrote:

oh and the ending of "Blood" is ten times better now then it used to be. Those fills at the end are freakin awesome.

I respectfully disagree 110%.... though the ending 7 seconds worth of fills were kind of fun (I know you've said you don't like it when a song is played the same way on drums twice), I'm referring to the 2 minutes and 37 seconds which precede it, which make up 98% of the song.

dreamweaver

To the poster, you have no idea what your talking about.

mattosborne

I think Matt is great, but I do agree that the way he plays some of the back catalog sucks.

I can't stand to listen to Hail Hail or Corduroy live because of him.

esacks23

dreamweaver wrote:

To the poster, you have no idea what your talking about.

WAKE UP DREAMWEAVER! that dream you're having is matt cameron sounding like he's good. ENJOY! you must be a fan of the fixer too.

ARazorbackguy1

I wish he'd use Carters drums from DMB. Better yet, take lessons from Carter

esacks23

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

I wish he'd use Carters drums from DMB. Better yet, take lessons from Carter

yeah, in our dreams, right! dave a. was very similar to carter as far as talent and style goes. dave's kit wasn't as big and fancy but it didn't need to be considering pj's style of music vs. dmb. dave and carter both play effortlessly hard and never miss a beat and both know what to do during a jam session where matt just sounds lost and random.

UpSideDown

mattosborne wrote:

I think Matt is great, but I do agree that the way he plays some of the back catalog sucks.

I can't stand to listen to Hail Hail or Corduroy live because of him.

Why doesn't anyone talk about the tone/effects of the guitars changing over time.................to me it has a more noticeable effect overall on the music than Matt's style of drumming.

dreamweaver

esacks23 wrote:

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

I wish he'd use Carters drums from DMB. Better yet, take lessons from Carter

yeah, in our dreams, right! dave a. was very similar to carter as far as talent and style goes. dave's kit wasn't as big and fancy but it didn't need to be considering pj's style of music vs. dmb. dave and carter both play effortlessly hard and never miss a beat and both know what to do during a jam session where matt just sounds lost and random.

first of all, wake up? why don't you wake up from your stupidity? the fixer is simply a good song, and matt cameron is one of the finest drummers in the world. you think carter buttford is good, should have known, your like every other non-drummer in the world...

100 Pacer

i'm looking forward to hearing the new oak kit in person,...

PJammin'

EBowie wrote:

Matt is the most talented drummer that has ever been in Pearl Jam! The folks who think they're pointing out mistakes are really just demonstrating that their ear for drumming just isn't there.

quoted for truth. matt c. is the perfect fit for pearl jam.

also, dave a. is gone. people need to stop living in the past. if you want the past, go find doc and the delorean.

kiljoythemerciful

esacks23 wrote:

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

I wish he'd use Carters drums from DMB. Better yet, take lessons from Carter

yeah, in our dreams, right! dave a. was very similar to carter as far as talent and style goes. dave's kit wasn't as big and fancy but it didn't need to be considering pj's style of music vs. dmb. dave and carter both play effortlessly hard and never miss a beat and both know what to do during a jam session where matt just sounds lost and random.

Have you seen Dave A play? Dude was all effort. It's his effort that made him a good drummer, but nothing more, imo.

AllEncompassingTrip

Bring back Jack Irons!

mookeywrench

esacks23 wrote:

his drums sound like crap! i don't know much about drums other than i know a good drummer when i hear one. and matt's pretty good, but his drums sound horrible. i don't know if it's the brand or the tuning. they sound very weak and dull and flat. the snare sounds like he's hitting.. i don't know.. like a piece of ply wood or something and the toms sound like he hitting a gym mat!! doesn't anyone else hear this?(or barely hear this;) i know he using skins now rather than.. plastic, i guess? i know back in '98 he was using the plastics and they sounded so much louder and better. now, they sound very drowned out. they not bad when you're at the actual concert, but on the bootlegs they're crap. maybe he just needs to tighten them up a little.... and start playing as hard as he used to! and hopefully ed will singing on the new album with the beauty and effort he sings with when he performs with artist other than his bandmates.... think about it.

Gary Carter

12345AGNST1 wrote:

metsfan wrote:

I thought he changed his drum kit after the 00 tour.

He did, but hes been using the same setup since 03. His drums sound "like shit" on boots but sounded good on VH1 because of better recording, not different tuning/drums.

oh and the ending of "Blood" is ten times better now then it used to be. Those fills at the end are freakin awesome.

ahhhhhh i see, thanks. i was at the who rock honors concert and thought matt sounded damn good. totally nailed love reign o'er me. when i saw it on tv i thought the band sucked and sounded to polished. but i get vh1 in wanting to make it clean and perfect.