MATT'S CRAPPY DRUM SOUND

esacks23

his drums sound like crap! i don't know much about drums other than i know a good drummer when i hear one. and matt's pretty good, but his drums sound horrible. i don't know if it's the brand or the tuning. they sound very weak and dull and flat. the snare sounds like he's hitting.. i don't know.. like a piece of ply wood or something and the toms sound like he hitting a gym mat!! doesn't anyone else hear this?(or barely hear this;) i know he using skins now rather than.. plastic, i guess? i know back in '98 he was using the plastics and they sounded so much louder and better. now, they sound very drowned out. they not bad when you're at the actual concert, but on the bootlegs they're crap. maybe he just needs to tighten them up a little.... and start playing as hard as he used to! and hopefully ed will singing on the new album with the beauty and effort he sings with when he performs with artist other than his bandmates.... think about it.

Brisk.

Its all about the ayotte.

Drum Machine89

Yeah i love Matt and I think hes a great drummer but im not that keen on the drum sound he had last year. The whole kit sounds very flat compared to what his kits usually sound like. His kit in 06 and even 07 sound so much more full of life. I dunno, think he needs to use different skins to be honest. I hope his kit sounds better this year .

CJMST3K

I like his tom sound, particularly on recordings of songs like LBC. Recently they seem to have lost some resonance. I don't think anyone makes real-skin heads. I believe his are just coated, as opposed to clear.

His snare though... I remember hearing someone say it sounded like hitting a wet log and on a number of bootlegs I kinda agree. Dave A's snare was about 10% too high in pitch, but Matt's is too low. I'd rather he spend time correcting his time signatures on the early catalog, and play some crashes more in time with the songs, but... he's gonna do whatever the F he wants. Who's gonna tell him he's wrong? He's Matt Cameron, right?

though they sound generally ok on this:
http://www.mtvmusic.com/pearl_jam/video ... _me_.jhtml

esacks23

yes, i agree, they sounded great on that vh1 WHO special, and matt was also playing very hard. but, his drums have never sounded very good except for the firt year he was with the band in '98... listen to how good they sounded then and how much harder he played and how much more precise he was. a very good example, and one of many, is "given to fly". listen to how he plays in on "live on 2 legs" and how he uses the entire kit. NOW, he plays it totally differently and, really, barely plays it all compared to how he used to. he plays "corduroy" differently.. i won't start, but the list goes on! and on! also, listen to how he plays "sleight of hand" and "come back" on the studio albums.. both songs have little drum rolls on the snare. when he plays it live it's just one single hit. he's NEVER played them live how he played in on the studio albums. i feel like he gets lazy and sloppy live. and let's be honest, his drum solo's during "even flow" are fun and decent to watch live, but they're for the most part sloppy, random, and lack any type of rhythm or consistent beat.. except when he starts "bringing it back" so to speak, for the rest of the song. i hate to pick the guy apart, but come on. at least he's better than jack irons. he can't hold a candle to dave a. though.. but then again, who can?

Space Monkey

esacks23 wrote:

he can't hold a candle to dave a. though.. but then again, who can?

Just about anyone.

CJMST3K

esacks23 wrote:

yes, i agree, they sounded great on that vh1 WHO special, and matt was also playing very hard. but, his drums have never sounded very good except for the firt year he was with the band in '98... listen to how good they sounded then and how much harder he played and how much more precise he was. a very good example, and one of many, is "given to fly". listen to how he plays in on "live on 2 legs" and how he uses the entire kit. NOW, he plays it totally differently and, really, barely plays it all compared to how he used to. he plays "corduroy" differently.. i won't start, but the list goes on! and on! also, listen to how he plays "sleight of hand" and "come back" on the studio albums.. both songs have little drum rolls on the snare. when he plays it live it's just one single hit. he's NEVER played them live how he played in on the studio albums. i feel like he gets lazy and sloppy live. and let's be honest, his drum solo's during "even flow" are fun and decent to watch live, but they're for the most part sloppy, random, and lack any type of rhythm or consistent beat.. except when he starts "bringing it back" so to speak, for the rest of the song. i hate to pick the guy apart, but come on. at least he's better than jack irons. he can't hold a candle to dave a. though.. but then again, who can?

I agree. On PJ stuff, MC (and Jack too) can't hold a candle to Dave A. I've found that mostly the only people who disagree are PJ fans who began listening to their live stuff after 1995. Kinda like people who thought Roger Moore was a better 007 than Sean Connery.

Matt has gotten sloppy. There's tons of instances of this, like the intro to grievance, or on S.O.H. there's an extra bass drum beat that seems out of place. Nothing major on MC's catalog, but on the Irons and Abbruzzese catalog it shows.

Oh well. I'd rather see the playing with MC rather than not at all.

Viva la Pearl Jam!

dustinpardue

I BrisK I wrote:

Its all about the ayotte.

This guy knows what he is talking about...............

justam

esacks23 wrote:

his drums sound like crap! i don't know much about drums other than i know a good drummer when i hear one.

^^^ Read the red print.

esacks23

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

Brisk.

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

Umm, you ever listened to Soundgarden???

facepollution

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

That's a matter of opinion.......

CJMST3K

facepollution wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

That's a matter of opinion.......

It certainly is.

I'm a drummer of almost 25 years, and I agree with his opinion.

Matt however can definitely stand on his own material he's written with Soundgarden, and most of what he's written with PJ. Just not the songs PJ wrote with other drummers. He's boring and uninspired on the early 1/2 of PJ's material.

DewieCox

How can a song as amazing as GTF sound kinda crappy live?

What was Matt doin at the beginning of Who You Are last year?

How can a band take a song as sweet as In My Tree and rearrange it, just b/c their singer's favorite person in the world can't really hang(on that song) with a pretty average drummer?

TheRiotAct

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

This has got to be the stupidest post I've read on this board. Again, have you ever listened to Soundgarden?? Odd time signtures, shifts in time mid song, mid verse, singing backup while drumming. Matt Cameron is an immensely talented drummer, and Dave A could nver hold a candle talent wise to Matt C. Debate whether you think one drummer is better suited for Pearl Jam, but do not debate drumming merits of Matt C to Dave A.

benjs

TheRiotAct wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

This has got to be the stupidest post I've read on this board. Again, have you ever listened to Soundgarden?? Odd time signtures, shifts in time mid song, mid verse, singing backup while drumming. Matt Cameron is an immensely talented drummer, and Dave A could nver hold a candle talent wise to Matt C. Debate whether you think one drummer is better suited for Pearl Jam, but do not debate drumming merits of Matt C to Dave A.

Can we just agree that they're different? You're essentially comparing a rock drummer (Dave A.) with a jazz drummer (what I consider Matt to be).. they both have different qualities to their playing in my opinion... Dave was a freaking POWERFUL drummer... Matt's drumming is definitely not nearly as powerful, but has a lot of interesting things going on with it. Matt also has the ability to deal with odd time signatures, as you just said. To be honest, I think I preferred Dave, as Matt's drumming really doesn't add a whole lot to their sound like I found Dave (and Jack specifically) were able to. Nonetheless, they are both quite talented drummers, and put their own unique 'something' on the table.

Brisk.

Dave A is my 2nd fave drummer, totally love him but can he do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jssjO5WtIsY

EBowie

Matt is the most talented drummer that has ever been in Pearl Jam! The folks who think they're pointing out mistakes are really just demonstrating that their ear for drumming just isn't there.

Snoopy Died For Our Sins

justam wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

his drums sound like crap! i don't know much about drums other than i know a good drummer when i hear one.

^^^ Read the red print.

Amen!

hitman

TheRiotAct wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

what i should have said was, i don't know how to play the drums. and you certainly don't have to know how to play the drums in order to know an amazing drummer(dave a.) from a lesser talented one (matt c.). it's pretty obvious.

This has got to be the stupidest post I've read on this board. Again, have you ever listened to Soundgarden?? Odd time signtures, shifts in time mid song, mid verse, singing backup while drumming. Matt Cameron is an immensely talented drummer, and Dave A could nver hold a candle talent wise to Matt C. Debate whether you think one drummer is better suited for Pearl Jam, but do not debate drumming merits of Matt C to Dave A.

JESUS CHRIST POSE... nuff' said.

CJMST3K

I BrisK I wrote:

Dave A is my 2nd fave drummer, totally love him but can he do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jssjO5WtIsY

I'd rather hear MC play PJ stuff correctly, rather than hear DA play SG stuff. And yes, I think with some practice, DA can play JCP better than MC plays most early PJ stuff.

12345AGNST1

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

OceansJenny

Space Monkey wrote:

esacks23 wrote:

he can't hold a candle to dave a. though.. but then again, who can?

Just about anyone.

AGREE. Can't we ever talk about Matt without someone bringing up their eternal love for Dave A? It's been a long time since 1994 - get over it!

CJMST3K

EBowie wrote:

Matt is the most talented drummer that has ever been in Pearl Jam! The folks who think they're pointing out mistakes are really just demonstrating that their ear for drumming just isn't there.

Yeah... that must be it. :roll:



Anywho, since I spent a good amount of time recently on this same topic, I'm going to post my response from another similar thread. Feel free to read it, see the youtube comparisons, and judge for yourself.

dreamweaver wrote:

matt is a better player than dave, imo... and pearl jam has played/ put on much better shows in the past decade than most shows in the early nineties. their sound is warmer and they play together much much better. I can understand why people jump on that stupid fuckin dave a. bandwagon though.. only because he set up his cymbals to look cool while he bashes on them the whole time.

...sigh...

How about we do an "apples to apples" comparison, and just base this on the music... deal?

Dave just posted new video of Blood.

I actually don't like how he has all the splashes and such, so for me your assessment of "only because he set up his cymbals to look cool" is way off. Frankly I think he looks a little too "metal" when he plays... but then again, i'm not judging by looks, as you are suggesting. I'm judging strictly by the music.

Dave just posted this video camera footage of him playing. From this angle, you can't see the cymbals very well, so you'll just have to pay attention to the actual playing.


Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoclgBmo ... annel_page

Dave's timing was great. It lined up with the guitar changes. The right hand is playing the china and/or crashes with the guitar changes, and his left hand is keeping a straight snare beat. The snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure as the count restarts each go-around. It has a great musicality to it. Dave also did great, tight rudiments on a tight hihat during this song.



Here's Jack playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsP0TQvKniQ

Jack's timing was pretty much identical with Dave's. Jack's right hand was striking the cymbals and his left was keeping a straight snare beat, once again the snare and cymbal hits only line up once per measure. He used different cymbals (a ride many times), but Jack "got it" as far as how the cymbals interlocked with the guitar changes, while keeping a steady on the snare. Jack couldn't do the rudiments (imho as a drummer), so he just did a simple beat on the hihat, and his fills were a bit loose. Seeing as how he got the rest of the song right, I won't begrudge him this difference. Dave's "thing" was rudiments, so it's hard for most drummers to compare on that part.



Here's Matt playing Blood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO_B2pMTCEw

I chose this audience video because it sounded a little less muddy than the pro-shot stuff, and on the latter-half of the video you can see Matt playing more at the 2:00 mark, than the pro-shot stuff. Matt's timing on cymbals is a basic beat - he's not hitting the crashes in timing with the music. Matt's just kinda playing a generic beat and slamming the crashes in time with himself, regardless of how the rest of the song goes. His cymbal hits and snare hits line up twice per measure.


Now I know my description may be lost on some... if you can't hear the difference, I truly envy you. This song used to be a favorite because of how intertwined the cymbal hits and guitar intertwined, plus the rudiments, and now with all the changes, it is no longer.

For those who complain that "Dave played cymbals too much", then where are you now on this? If you count, every measure, Matt is hitting the cymbals 6 times. Dave is only hitting them 4 times. This makes it muddy sounding when Matt is playing (plus not in time with the guitar changes), whereas Dave's cymbal hits were spaced out, so you could hear each one.

In order of my preference on Blood: Dave, Jack, Matt



edit: However dreamweaver, I will agree that on new records, I enjoy Matt's approach. Even simple songs like Light Years sound better with Matt than they probably would have with Dave. I'm commenting strictly on the pre-Matt material, particularly Vs & Vitalogy... and some of Ten and No Code.

Gary Carter

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I thought he changed his drum kit after the 00 tour.

12345AGNST1

metsfan wrote:

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I thought he changed his drum kit after the 00 tour.

He did, but hes been using the same setup since 03. His drums sound "like shit" on boots but sounded good on VH1 because of better recording, not different tuning/drums.

oh and the ending of "Blood" is ten times better now then it used to be. Those fills at the end are freakin awesome.

CJMST3K

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Its not his set so much, its really just the recording. I cant believe no one really realizes this. Of course Matts drums are going to sound good on the VH1 THE WHO special. If you didn't notice, the entire band sounded amzing from that performance, jeffs bass stood out perfectly, the drums, vocals, everything was mixed perfect. they arent going to skimp on recording when they are doing a special on The Who.

His drums arent any different on that performance then they are at the concerts, they sound the same no matter what. Its the recording they use, obviously they arent going to mic up the drums perfectly for a concert bootleg they record every concert VS a Concert TV special on VH1.

I'd think of it the other way around though.

At a TV broadcast, they're probably not using their particular choice of microphone set-up for the drums as they do for their own tour, nor their preferred sound company and board engineer.

Wouldn't their own tour have the "best" set-up, based specifically on their preferences? Wouldn't they prefer to use the best setup? TV probably had one sound company handle all of the mic needs, and it wouldn't be as specific for MC's needs as "Rat Sound" uses, and they would have a separate sound engineer that is not PJ's person, to handle the sound mix for TV.

As far as mixing goes, there may lay the difference.

CJMST3K

12345AGNST1 wrote:

oh and the ending of "Blood" is ten times better now then it used to be. Those fills at the end are freakin awesome.

I respectfully disagree 110%.... though the ending 7 seconds worth of fills were kind of fun (I know you've said you don't like it when a song is played the same way on drums twice), I'm referring to the 2 minutes and 37 seconds which precede it, which make up 98% of the song.

dreamweaver

To the poster, you have no idea what your talking about.

mattosborne

I think Matt is great, but I do agree that the way he plays some of the back catalog sucks.

I can't stand to listen to Hail Hail or Corduroy live because of him.

esacks23

dreamweaver wrote:

To the poster, you have no idea what your talking about.

WAKE UP DREAMWEAVER! that dream you're having is matt cameron sounding like he's good. ENJOY! you must be a fan of the fixer too.