Should Ms Cali have lost?

Brain of J.Lo

Jimmydean55 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

sure is funny how now if you say you favor traditional marriage it's considered controversial. :? Not long ago if a contestant said she was for gay marriage that would have been controversial :shock:

It's evolution baby!

Damn dirty liberals...ruining my country! :shock:

Prince Of Dorkness

jlew24asu wrote:

whats the difference between a civil union and marriage?

about 1012 extra rights. And it's the most important ones, too.

jlew24asu

Jasunmark wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

whats the difference between a civil union and marriage?

about 1012 extra rights. And it's the most important ones, too.

I wasn't asking in a sarcastic way. I really dont know. I'll look it up

Fahka

it really bothers me that they even waste time or money on these things anymore.. i mean really? i never got the point

WaveCameCrashin

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

Ok, I'll bite.

It wasn't that she's against gay marriage. 50% of her state is against gay marriage. It was that her answer was a very divisive one. Beauty Queens are supposed to be fence sitters on political issues. Her answer should have been about how we should try to find common ground. Not about how the homos aren't as good as her.

You think that Miss America really wants to be friends with Hugo Chavez when she says "I want world peace?" Don't be silly. They're supposed to give "feel good" answers to tough questions and stay away from controversy. THAT's what she was being tested on... if she could answer a tough question without taking a side.

But instead her answer was "In MY America..." pretty much telling the majority of the audience "Get out of my country, faggot."

When you have to follow up an answer at a beauty pageant with "no offense but that's how I was raised," you've given an answer not fitting of a Beauty Queen.




And you know what? When Britney Spears can stagger drunk into a wedding chapel in Vegas and get more rights that I have with my husband after 17 years together, there's something very wrong with the way things are.

I like your answer! I agree, wholeheartedly...especially with the last sentence. (I'm really fucking sick of assholes, like my married-4-times brother, whining about the sanctity of marriage and what god intended... Ugh.) Furthermore, Miss Whateverthefuck...USA or America or whatever she is called is supposed to be a goodwill figurehead of sorts, regardless of her personal feelings on controversial issues. I recognize that people aren't always going to agree on everything, but she could have given her answer in a more diplomatic way.

In a more diplomatic way ? WTF... SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE. :roll: They should have asked all of the finalist the same questions.

fugawzi

Should she have lost based on her answer to the gay marriage question? No. Is that what happened, and if so how do we really know that's why she lost?

There were a couple things that bothered me about her answer. Hilton mentioned VT becoming the fourth state to legalize same sex marriage and asked her if the rest of the states should follow suit. Her immediate response sounded rehearsed and didn't really make sense. she said:

"Well I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. Umm, we live in a land that you can choose...same sex marriage or...opposite marriage."

Well actually we don't live in a land where you can choose. In fact in 46 of our 50 states there's only one choice including HER HOME STATE CALIFORNIA! Man and woman. Only the people in those 4 states actually live in a land where they can choose. She goes on to say:

"And, you know what? In MY country and in in in my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there…but that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be between a man and a woman. Thank you."

So even though she never said “no the other states should not follow suit” we can gather that she would be opposed to it. What I don’t understand is why she used the words “MY country” and why she accented the “my”. Does that mean people in the U.S. who don’t agree are part of some other country?

Brain of J.Lo

prfctlefts wrote:

In a more diplomatic way ? WTF... SHE'S NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE. :roll: They should have asked all of the finalist the same questions.

Exactly, she's not running for office...so why choose this moment to take a hard stance on a controversial issue? The purpose of Miss USA or whatever is to be a smiling, nodding empty dress that represents the good of "America".

If they were all asked the same question, they would probably all give the same answer. But that's fine. It doesn't matter either way, since it's all meaningless bullshit.

jlew24asu

I really think her words came out too fast and she was going to say in my family, but my country came out. I mean think about it, she was nervous and stuttering a bit....and she cant be that stupid to say "my country" and mean it. thats just my hunch.

decides2dream

redrock wrote:

D2D - this is what she said : ""Well I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. Um, we live in a land that you can choose same sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and in, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman," Carrie said to a mix of boos and applause. "No offense to anybody out there. But that's how I was raised and that's how I think that it should be between a man and a woman.""

I think it's fair.

it is.
although perhaps the question *cost* her, NOT b/vc she's anti gay marriage, but b/c obviously she doesn't know the laws of her own country? there is no federal law saying gay marriage is legal, and only a handful of states, sadly, have made it legal.....so really, it might not be her personal ideals, but her lack of knowledge of her country that cost her. just a thought......



btw - wtf is opposite marriage?
these pageants are such a joke.......


playing catch-up here, just got back to this thread

Jasunmark wrote:

Ok, I'll bite.

It wasn't that she's against gay marriage. 50% of her state is against gay marriage. It was that her answer was a very divisive one. Beauty Queens are supposed to be fence sitters on political issues. Her answer should have been about how we should try to find common ground. Not about how the homos aren't as good as her.

You think that Miss America really wants to be friends with Hugo Chavez when she says "I want world peace?" Don't be silly. They're supposed to give "feel good" answers to tough questions and stay away from controversy. THAT's what she was being tested on... if she could answer a tough question without taking a side.

But instead her answer was "In MY America..." pretty much telling the majority of the audience "Get out of my country, faggot."

When you have to follow up an answer at a beauty pageant with "no offense but that's how I was raised," you've given an answer not fitting of a Beauty Queen.




And you know what? When Britney Spears can stagger drunk into a wedding chapel in Vegas and get more rights that I have with my husband after 17 years together, there's something very wrong with the way things are.

excellent post. kinda what i was trying to say in my first post...the idea about representing the country and being open to and respecting the equal rights amendment, and this issue IS an equal rights issue.....and yes, she does not know wtf she is talking about. ok to express your personal beliefs....but should counter with you do agree that the right to choose should be left to the individual.

Prince Of Dorkness

jlew24asu wrote:

I wasn't asking in a sarcastic way. I really dont know. I'll look it up

oh, I know, you've been very respectful in this thread.

My point is that all the rights we REALLY need.. inheritance, pension benefits, sponsoring a foreign spouse... those all come with marriage. Civil Unions are a scrap tossed our way which don't have many of the rights that are really important.


OK.. I'll tell you a story.

I was in a motorcycle accident last year. I broke and dislocated my arm and was in agonizing pain. Just after the accident, it was my husband who gave my medical information to the hospital, stayed with me in the emergency room as I begged for morphine.

Technically... he's just my "room mate." He doesn't have any legal standing and the doctors didn't have to let him in. I shouldn't be at the mercy of doctors to be "nice" and let him in. If I had died in that accident, Carlo would have been taxed 50% on anything I left him in my will. He wouldn't be given survivor benefits from the pension I've paid into.

And we live under the constant spectre that he could have his work Visa refused and we'd have to leave our life here in America that we've made. He isn't a part-time floor staff, he's an architect with a thriving practice.

We just want things to be fair. And I'm so tired of having to try to "meet in the middle' with people who want me dead or at the very least, without any rights at all. You know many people still think it should be legal to fire me or evict me just for being gay?

decides2dream

absolutely.....i don't think you or anyone should have to *settle* for a civil union, or your current circumstance. legal marriage SHOULD be a right for consenting adults everywhere...regardless of race, creed, culture...and yes...sexual orientation. marriage offers a plethora of protections and rights, and all should be entitled. legal marriage is a legal contract, period. religious marriage is something else entirely. nor do i think legal marriages should have to change the term, simply to appease the religious either.




btw- we are the same age, and 'married' the same amount of time. sad that i am 'allowed' to be married, and you are not. that is just all kinds of wrong.

Anon

Perez Hilton is a grandstanding loser. She has my respect for standing her ground.

Prince Of Dorkness

Oh Perez knows how to grab a headline and he knows how to play the game.

In private he's always been very nice to me, very business-like. When he's in the public eye, he knows his job is to be big and loud and scandalous. It' why they hired him to be a judge.

But I don't see how she stood her ground.. I mean.. she even said "no offense.." in her response. Not exactly standing your ground.

She gave a very ham-fisted answer to a hard to answer political question in a beauty contest. The winner was asked about the bank bailouts... there were a lot of political questions and Miss California's was the only answer that didn't have a "feel good" slant to it.

jlew24asu

Jasunmark wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

I wasn't asking in a sarcastic way. I really dont know. I'll look it up

oh, I know, you've been very respectful in this thread.

My point is that all the rights we REALLY need.. inheritance, pension benefits, sponsoring a foreign spouse... those all come with marriage. Civil Unions are a scrap tossed our way which don't have many of the rights that are really important.


OK.. I'll tell you a story.

I was in a motorcycle accident last year. I broke and dislocated my arm and was in agonizing pain. Just after the accident, it was my husband who gave my medical information to the hospital, stayed with me in the emergency room as I begged for morphine.

Technically... he's just my "room mate." He doesn't have any legal standing and the doctors didn't have to let him in. I shouldn't be at the mercy of doctors to be "nice" and let him in. If I had died in that accident, Carlo would have been taxed 50% on anything I left him in my will. He wouldn't be given survivor benefits from the pension I've paid into.

And we live under the constant spectre that he could have his work Visa refused and we'd have to leave our life here in America that we've made. He isn't a part-time floor staff, he's an architect with a thriving practice.

We just want things to be fair. And I'm so tired of having to try to "meet in the middle' with people who want me dead or at the very least, without any rights at all. You know many people still think it should be legal to fire me or evict me just for being gay?

I hear ya man. gays are not treated equal in this country and its wrong. like I said, its very unAmerican.

I think this incident hurts your cause however. had perez acted differently, you would have many more people who on the fence about the issue, come to your side. Perez just gave them more firepower by a) not allowing her to win based on her personal choice b) say the outrageous things on his blog about her.

its unfortunate.

ajedigecko

JB811 wrote:

Perez Hilton is a grandstanding loser. She has my respect for standing her ground.

what the hell........are my eyes screwed, is that a picture of bush/obama hybrid?

thread integrity: she won more with her answer, than any pc bullshit answer she could have stated.

Anon

It is. IMO they are much the same.

WaveCameCrashin

JB811 wrote:

It is. IMO they are much the same.

DUDE!! THAT SHIT IS CREEPY :shock:

WaveCameCrashin

ajedigecko wrote:

JB811 wrote:

Perez Hilton is a grandstanding loser. She has my respect for standing her ground.

what the hell........are my eyes screwed, is that a picture of bush/obama hybrid?

thread integrity: she won more with her answer, than any pc bullshit answer she could have stated.

+1

Prince Of Dorkness

1) Except that's the job of a title holder... to give "PC Bullshit" answers that say nothing and offend no one.

2) Why is not saying that your marriage is better than mine "PC Bullshit?" To me it's just common sense. I mean.. why am *I* always the one who has to respect everyone else and their two-bit opinions when that two-bit opinion is "You're not legally as good as me, faggot, get out of my country."

WaveCameCrashin

Jasunmark wrote:

1) Except that's the job of a title holder... to give "PC Bullshit" answers that say nothing and offend no one.

2) Why is not saying that your marriage is better than mine "PC Bullshit?" To me it's just common sense. I mean.. why am *I* always the one who has to respect everyone else and their two-bit opinions when that two-bit opinion is "You're not legally as good as me, faggot, get out of my country."

so when gay marriage is legal in all 50 states then what ? Will you be happy ?