Wife and I pay 1000 combined a year extra in taxes for a health care premium,, and the on top of that we pay some of the highest taxes in the west for government run health (live in Ontario). But I'll bet most of you Americans get far better health services than we do.
i figure, overall....it probably evens out. people with universal healthcare more than likely pay a lot more in taxes to cover it, whereas we pay it out of pocket. i am truly amazed at the disparity in costs just amongst americans, hell even someone who has the same HMO as me, lives in the same geographic area, and pays soooo much less! so it's definitely what your employer kicks in that makes a big difference. me, i think universal healthcare is the way to go. make sure EVERYone has coverage at EVERY point in their life, while employed or not....and basically all share the same costs/burdens to fund it. i personally do find my healthcare to be excellent, overall....and i definitely don't wait for any needed services and such, but i know of others who do....and copays, etc, again....vary widely. i just think there has to be a better way to serve the needs of all, and for better costs/services, overall.
Thankfully, my employer pays for mine.....my wife pays for hers and the daughter's through her job.
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Thankfully, my employer pays for mine.....my wife pays for hers and the daughter's through her job.
in FULL?
damn lucky!
i never manage to score jobs like that....and i have worked for some damn fine companies. sheesh. :?
my sister gets her healthcare paid for 100% by her firm, AND for her husband as well! it's definitely a big added perquisite, right along with her car allowance. i just didn't realize how many people outside of the congress and senate anyway who got their health insurance paid in full. i c=say again, lucky, lucky!
Right now I pay $5 a week to my employer for insurance. That is about to go up to $20 a week I believe. No dental or vision. $1500 deductible and $4000 out of pocket. Does not cover birth control either unless you have a medical reason for it and you have to jump through hoops for that.
I went to the emergency room a few months back and paid about $1200 after all was said and done. I think my insurance paid about $500 total.
Luckily we pay $18 a week for the family through my wife's work. If we did it at my work it would be about $300 a month.
While we concentrate on what we actually pay, I'd like to see what the total cost of the monthly premium is. As of about a year ago, it was about $950 a month between employer and employee contribution at my work.
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I will begin getting health insurance through my work soon as I am about to be dropped from my step moms plan because she is retiring. Not sure how much it'll be
My g/f doesn't have health insurance...and we can't afford to buy it for her. She can't get on my plan at my work because we aren't eligible for domestic partnership benefits because we only have one form of proof that we've lived together for 12 months or longer...we don't have a second form...a bank account, same car insurance policy...it sucks.
We're in a serious bind, and she's a temporary employee @ GE Healthcare...
*sigh* fuck health insurance. I honestly don't mean that, cause it's nice that we actually can get it...but it's so difficult sometimes, and I'm overwhelmed with helping her look...and she seriously needs to go to the doctor, but we cant' continue to pay what it costs to go with no coverage.
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i figure, overall....it probably evens out. people with universal healthcare more than likely pay a lot more in taxes to cover it, whereas we pay it out of pocket.
i am truly amazed at the disparity in costs just amongst americans, hell even someone who has the same HMO as me, lives in the same geographic area, and pays soooo much less! so it's definitely what your employer kicks in that makes a big difference. me, i think universal healthcare is the way to go. make sure EVERYone has coverage at EVERY point in their life, while employed or not....and basically all share the same costs/burdens to fund it. i personally do find my healthcare to be excellent, overall....and i definitely don't wait for any needed services and such, but i know of others who do....and copays, etc, again....vary widely. i just think there has to be a better way to serve the needs of all, and for better costs/services, overall.
excellent point. it is a totally viable option. The NHS might get some stick over here but its the greatest social policy carried out by the UK ever... imo... doesnt matter if someone earns £100k a year or 10k a year... they can rest assured that if they break their leg they will get seen, treated, phsyio, etc and it's all 'free' to them.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i didnt realise you paid for it over in the land of Oz? i thought you had a NHS type system!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i didnt realise you paid for it over in the land of Oz? i thought you had a NHS type system!
What is NHS? Maybe I should read back....
Private health insurance costs money....public health system doesn't. I will (possibly) want an elective caesarean so I need private health insurance. And don't even START about the c-section, Dunk!
Wife and I pay 1000 combined a year extra in taxes for a health care premium,, and the on top of that we pay some of the highest taxes in the west for government run health (live in Ontario). But I'll bet most of you Americans get far better health services than we do.
i figure, overall....it probably evens out. people with universal healthcare more than likely pay a lot more in taxes to cover it, whereas we pay it out of pocket. i am truly amazed at the disparity in costs just amongst Americans, hell even someone who has the same HMO as me, lives in the same geographic area, and pays soooo much less! so it's definitely what your employer kicks in that makes a big difference. me, i think universal healthcare is the way to go. make sure EVERYone has coverage at EVERY point in their life, while employed or not....and basically all share the same costs/burdens to fund it. i personally do find my healthcare to be excellent, overall....and i definitely don't wait for any needed services and such, but i know of others who do....and copays, etc, again....vary widely. i just think there has to be a better way to serve the needs of all, and for better costs/services, overall.
I agree that overall it evens out, the advantage we have is that it follows us from job to job or you still have health coverage if unemployed. The disadvantages are that the government tells us what procedures and test they will cover, and if it is not covered we must pay of pocket, we have a Doctor shortage so a lot of people end up at the ER or walk in clinics, which are not the best if you are managing a chronic illness. Truthfully I would rather pay health insurance premiums if it insured me that I could choose a DR. that I am comfortable with and give me a choice of what I want covered and what I would rather pay for out of pocket.
With the government program they try to create one plan to fit all, just doesn't work.
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Wife and I pay 1000 combined a year extra in taxes for a health care premium,, and the on top of that we pay some of the highest taxes in the west for government run health (live in Ontario). But I'll bet most of you Americans get far better health services than we do.
i figure, overall....it probably evens out. people with universal healthcare more than likely pay a lot more in taxes to cover it, whereas we pay it out of pocket. i am truly amazed at the disparity in costs just amongst Americans, hell even someone who has the same HMO as me, lives in the same geographic area, and pays soooo much less! so it's definitely what your employer kicks in that makes a big difference. me, i think universal healthcare is the way to go. make sure EVERYone has coverage at EVERY point in their life, while employed or not....and basically all share the same costs/burdens to fund it. i personally do find my healthcare to be excellent, overall....and i definitely don't wait for any needed services and such, but i know of others who do....and copays, etc, again....vary widely. i just think there has to be a better way to serve the needs of all, and for better costs/services, overall.
I agree that overall it evens out, the advantage we have is that it follows us from job to job or you still have health coverage if unemployed. The disadvantages are that the government tells us what procedures and test they will cover, and if it is not covered we must pay of pocket, we have a Doctor shortage so a lot of people end up at the ER or walk in clinics, which are not the best if you are managing a chronic illness. Truthfully I would rather pay health insurance premiums if it insured me that I could choose a DR. that I am comfortable with and give me a choice of what I want covered and what I would rather pay for out of pocket.
With the government program they try to create one plan to fit all, just doesn't work.
oh exactly...i agree.
and even looking within our own, flawed system...the disparity of costs, etc....it would make a bit more 'sense' for it to be universal costs. also, looking at some others who may pay less monthly, but then someone mentioned their deductible, out of pocket costs later.....BIG difference. it's all so convoluted at this point. :P i truly hope that obama works on it as i know it was something he's discussed, and also one of the myriad reasons i supported him for president. no one system is *perfect*...there will always be flaws, and while yes we DO have coverage for those who cannot afford it, you have to be destitute. for people like me, soldily middle-class....i'd have to lose everything before i'd truly get 'help'...and most especially hen i retire, when you are older is when you most need healthcare.....and i shudder think what would happen without. in my current employement i have a pretty sweet deal upon retirement - although who knows how much costs may rise in time - but also, who knows if i will BE in this job until retirement? and still, i know if people with healthcare for life for little to no cost...so yea.....why can't that work for all? :P it's a BIG job. anyhooo....it's really interesting/informative to see how much people pay for their healthcare, and i also have to say.....seems a LOT of people get some damn fine benefits from their employers - kudos!
edit - btw - even with 'private insurance'.....aka HMOs here, they too will tell you what will be covered and what won't. granted, you can fight em, etc...but none the less....unless you truly have serious $$$ to pay cash for anything you want, there will always be someone telling you what they will or won't cover. whether the govt or insurance.
Private health insurance costs money....public health system doesn't. I will (possibly) want an elective caesarean so I need private health insurance.
It's the same here. We have a public health system that our taxes contribute towards, but you can also take up your own private health insurance. It gets you into private hospitals, better and faster care too and is especially useful if you plan on having a family.
My sister is on private - will be getting a caesarean (medical reasons) but still has to pay her consultant (about 2-3k I think), but she gets scans every month or so, special 4-d scans, baby checks etc.. She will get her own private room in the hospital.
My sis-in-law is going public - only had one scan so far at 3 months, and won't have another till June. She will have to stay in the ward with 4-6 other women, but that will be all for free.
I think the NHS has a much better system than here in Ireland. You get cheaper meds, better care etc... in Ireland it is pretty basic - if you want more you'll have to pay for it and you'll still get the ambulance bill etc at the end of the day. It costs €60+ to go see a doctor, and you have to spend €90+ a month on meds to get any help from the government.
Right now I pay $5 a week to my employer for insurance. That is about to go up to $20 a week I believe. No dental or vision. $1500 deductible and $4000 out of pocket. Does not cover birth control either unless you have a medical reason for it and you have to jump through hoops for that.
I went to the emergency room a few months back and paid about $1200 after all was said and done. I think my insurance paid about $500 total.
:? so you pay all this insurance... and it doesn't even COVER stuff? They just give you SOME money back??????? :shock: so basically people are paying hundreds a month on the offchance that they MAY need a $100,000 operation at some stage in their lives? :? (how the hell do they come up with those costs anyway???)
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Right now I pay $5 a week to my employer for insurance. That is about to go up to $20 a week I believe. No dental or vision. $1500 deductible and $4000 out of pocket. Does not cover birth control either unless you have a medical reason for it and you have to jump through hoops for that.
I went to the emergency room a few months back and paid about $1200 after all was said and done. I think my insurance paid about $500 total.
:? so you pay all this insurance... and it doesn't even COVER stuff? They just give you SOME money back??????? :shock: so basically people are paying hundreds a month on the offchance that they MAY need a $100,000 operation at some stage in their lives? :? (how the hell do they come up with those costs anyway???)
notice she pays $5 a week,....so not 'hundreds' at all, annually anyway. even $20 a week = $1040...pretty damn cheap annual cost for insurance. i pay $100 a month for my insurance, just for me.....and i have co-pays of $25 to any doctor, $75 for the ER.....and i think maybe $100 if i stay overnight in the hospital, and $10 to $40 co-pays for meds depending on what type of meds, generic/brand name, etc. otherwise, my insurance covers EVERYthing. plans, and their expenses, vary widely.....government or private employee......fed or state govt employee......just how much your employer pays......what kind of plans your employer offers......and what plan you ultimately choose to use from those choices. there is no one size fits all answer to this, b/c as you can see from this thread....huge variety of prices and coverage of insurance here. oh and FYI - what we pay for our health insurance is not taxed, it is taken out of paychecks PRE-tax, like a few other things, so we actually do get more in our pocket paywise. also, if your out of pocket expenses after insurance = 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, that then is a tax deduction. how the hell they come up with these costs is anyone's guess....no feckin' clue!
last year when i had my fall before MSG 2 and went to the ER....was there for hours, had some x-rays, meds, exam, given crutches and an aircast, etc......i paid $75. the actual bill for services was i think almost a grand. and yes, my insurance covered it - no paperwork, nada, just covered.
Blue Cross Blue Shield roughly $50 every paycheck including dental and vision. $20 dollar copays...it's good i guess. I'd like to try the canadian way for a little bit though.
last year when i had my fall before MSG 2 and went to the ER....was there for hours, had some x-rays, meds, exam, given crutches and an aircast, etc......i paid $75. the actual bill for services was i think almost a grand. and yes, my insurance covered it - no paperwork, nada, just covered.
i wonder what the above scenario would be like for someone who had no insurance...
i remember that fall i had just around the same time... went to ER.. got seen in 45 minutes... paid ZERO... no forms, or anything... just went home.
personally i think its shameful that the worlds richest country doesnt offer a decent health service to its citizens.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
last year when i had my fall before MSG 2 and went to the ER....was there for hours, had some x-rays, meds, exam, given crutches and an aircast, etc......i paid $75. the actual bill for services was i think almost a grand. and yes, my insurance covered it - no paperwork, nada, just covered.
i wonder what the above scenario would be like for someone who had no insurance...
i remember that fall i had just around the same time... went to ER.. got seen in 45 minutes... paid ZERO... no forms, or anything... just went home.
personally i think its shameful that the worlds richest country doesnt offer a decent health service to its citizens.
just an FYI - an ER CANNOT refuse service to ANYone, regardless of insurance, or not.
also, the reason i waited is b/c i actually live in an area with a LOT of people, and even at 1 AM...there were a lot of people in the ER besides me, with much more serious injuries - thus they were attended to first. i got a bed to rest until i could be attended to fully. overall, as a well employed individual i am quite satisified with what i pay for health insurance, copays, and what i pay in taxes.....overall seems quite reasonable for what i receive in return/ my only real beef is my property taxes :evil: but that is a whole other scenario, and determined on the state/county level.....and yes, i live in one of the top 10 most expensive places to live. i
however, i've said often enough i think we should adopt our own version of universal healthcare but luckily i DO corrently have excellent health service and coverage. it definitely would be nice to see that for all citizens, at all stages of life and employment. THAT is the real issue, and where many gaps come into play. the really poor and the really rich, are always set....it's all those in the middle class that have the true worries of inadequate or no insurance.
just an FYI - an ER CANNOT refuse service to ANYone, regardless of insurance, or not.
well to be fair i never said they wouldnt refuse anyone... just wondered what level of care they would receive? come on... i've read one waitress on here who gives a shitty service to a family just because they dont tip... if a doctor knows an uninsured person is waiting to see him with a twisted ankle then he'll be at the end end end of a very long line.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
last year when i had my fall before MSG 2 and went to the ER....was there for hours, had some x-rays, meds, exam, given crutches and an aircast, etc......i paid $75. the actual bill for services was i think almost a grand. and yes, my insurance covered it - no paperwork, nada, just covered.
i wonder what the above scenario would be like for someone who had no insurance...
i remember that fall i had just around the same time... went to ER.. got seen in 45 minutes... paid ZERO... no forms, or anything... just went home.
personally i think its shameful that the worlds richest country doesnt offer a decent health service to its citizens.
Once, due to a misunderstanding, my parents were directed to the ER instead of urgent care for a strep throat swab. This was in Ohio. We were there for hours. I had the exam too because my son was sick. My insurance covered my visit. My parents, since they were visiting from Italy, didn't have insurance. When I looked at the bills, I noticed that my insurance got all sorts of discounts, and the bill ended up being (for them) about one tenth of what it ended up being for my parents. So, the way it works: insurance companies pay a fraction; uninsured people pay a ton. Makes sense, no?
I received a few calls from the hospital asking for my parents' payment. I told them we specified about a hundred times that we wanted to go to the urgent care department, and that they were just not going to pay 7000 dollars for a strep throat exam. In fact, after the exam came back negative, the doctor didn't even take the time to find out why my mother was not feeling well.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
just an FYI - an ER CANNOT refuse service to ANYone, regardless of insurance, or not.
well to be fair i never said they wouldnt refuse anyone... just wondered what level of care they would receive? come on... i've read one waitress on here who gives a shitty service to a family just because they dont tip... if a doctor knows an uninsured person is waiting to see him with a twisted ankle then he'll be at the end end end of a very long line.
dunky, i know how you love to 'argue' about all things american .....but i am not arguing, or evening debating you...at all. if you notice, i said "FYI"...you know, for your information? so i wasn't countering any point, i was merely making the point....in case you didn't know. i am not 'defending' our system.....but it also is not as hideous for most citizens as you may believe either, that's all.
same with tipping.
at least healthcare IS an extremely important issue, thus why it also was a big issue in the forefront of the presidental election b/c a LOT of people want to see reform. as for tipping, while many of us agree it's a dumb system.....as i've said often enough, it just isn't even important enough to care about. most waitstaff LIKE our system b/c they definitely make far more $$$ than if they were simply paid a decent wage....and most diners simply don't give a shit. pay for it up front off the menu, or pay it in your tip...same difference...no one really cares. :P health insurance, THAT most care about.
meme, you've lived in italy and here in the states....i assume you had universal healthcare in italy? i AM curious....do you think you pay more here or there? pay in your taxes or pay out of pocket....is there a big difference in what you outlay? i am curious...
it IS so difficult to determine our individual costs, b/c outside of what we pay in for our insurance - which as i mentioned comes out of your pay PREtax, so actually saves you more....plus out of pocket expenses can also be tax deductible at times, etc. and YES, insurance companies do pay LESS for care, they have the docotrs/hospitals by the balls.....so all the more reason if they pay less, the governement could do so as well....so same difference, insurance companies or the governement.......it could be done! a flat rate every employed person pays in, probably the same as what we do now - although definitely may be more/less for some. looking at this thread tho, a great # seem to pay around $50 a paycheck for an individual....so only those who pay a lot more or less would truly see a difference - and that would probably be enough to support all, at least overall. i think it would cut a lot of waste, but it will also piss off the health insurance industry and that seems the 'issue.' :evil: :roll: :? eh, i am sure the lot of em could go and take the same jobs, overall.....just for the govt.
btw - funny......while i lived in london i got strep throat, twice....and i hear that is rare. mostly b/c the doctor who attended to me didn't actually treat the strep throat, just the symptoms. so yea, i took really good drugs that made me feel great .....but then i suffered even more when the strep throat came right back a month or so later.
meme, you've lived in italy and here in the states....i assume you had universal healthcare in italy? i AM curious....do you think you pay more here or there? pay in your taxes or pay out of pocket....is there a big difference in what you outlay? i am curious...
I wasn't working in Italy, so it really was awesomely cheap
What everyone pays of course depends on what everyone makes, in a universal healthcare system, since taxation is progressive, and that's how health care is paid for. In terms of the overall costs of care there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the US system is more expensive. Doctors make A LOT more money here, so there's that. But also, if you think about it, when you have a health insurance industry you don't pay for care only, but for that industry as well. Millions of jobs. Also, it is unthinkable for a medical office in the US to not have AT LEAST one person whose job is doing the billing/insurance work. In Italy, docs only need scheduling help.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
meme, you've lived in italy and here in the states....i assume you had universal healthcare in italy? i AM curious....do you think you pay more here or there? pay in your taxes or pay out of pocket....is there a big difference in what you outlay? i am curious...
I wasn't working in Italy, so it really was awesomely cheap
What everyone pays of course depends on what everyone makes, in a universal healthcare system, since taxation is progressive, and that's how health care is paid for. In terms of the overall costs of care there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the US system is more expensive. Doctors make A LOT more money here, so there's that. But also, if you think about it, when you have a health insurance industry you don't pay for care only, but for that industry as well. Millions of jobs. Also, it is unthinkable for a medical office in the US to not have AT LEAST one person whose job is doing the billing/insurance work. In Italy, docs only need scheduling help.
hahahahaha.....that'll make a big difference. :P
and sure, i kinda figured.
yes, i think it's difficult b/c just like the sneiorty system in the 10c ....once expecations are in place, it's difficult to change. doctors DO make enormous salaries here....tho i kinds do believe they deserve it. i think the BIGGEST issue is the health insurance industry, itself.......absolutely. it is an insane amount of jobs, and a HUGE overhaul to change the system....but i think it CAN be done, it just has to be really well planned.
question for ya tho - i understand w/o health insurance it would be easier/more direct for the doctors to get paid....but don't they have to do ANY paperwork for the governement? file forms showing who they treat, what they do, costs and such, to get paid? obviously, it would be a lot LESS work....but i would think they still need more help than scheduling. and i do also wonder, with so many who say their universal healthcare is so fabulous....why do so many have private insurance too? i have a few friends overseas.....and they have private insurance anyway. i don't get it. i do understand it still is a VAST improvement that EVERYone gets healthcare, period......i just wonder what is the 'need' for private insurance if you have full coverage publicly thru taxes.
btw - i realize our SYTEM would definitely be more expensive..i was simply curious about what you thought/experienced on an INDIVIDUAL level, which cost YOU more. but you don't know. well now that you're going back home...take notes...and give a full report when you return to NY!
i think in the US, rightly or wrongly....and this covers a lot more than simply health insurance...but it's almost a national attitude of being independent, everyone fends for themselves, be self-supportive, etc. obviously, we DO have government programs, public education, etc.......but many were fought for a long time too. i think it IS changing, and people are realizing it Is for the greater good, the benefit of all....to have a national healthcare service, to provide services to protect citizens, etc. but you bet, there are always people afraid of the cheats, those who abuse the system, etc, etc. hell, i'll even admit it kinda pisses me off that 65% of my insane property taxes goes to support my school system and i don't even have kids. now, ifully agree with supporting the school systems, i think it's important as a society......but it annoys me that we carry this burden, and it is quite a lot......whereas others who don't own property yet have 5 kids in the system pay nothing. so yes...i think relating the stories, there are people who don't want to foot the bill for others healthcare, or think they will be supporting 'free-loaders' or what have you. not saying it's right, just saying why i think on some level....ithere still are people against the system. me, i do think education and healthcare for all citizens, regardless, is of paramount importance....so yea...i may be pissed about my property taxesm :P and i think it could be done more fairly there...i totally support healthcare reform, even if i help pay for others rugrats. hahaha.
Regarding "why have private insurance in a country with universal health care"
I only know the Italian system. In Italy, there are vast disparities in how health care works across regions. I have never had bad experiences, but I am also only familiar with regions that notoriously have excellent systems: Val d'Aosta, Lombardia, Toscana, Piemonte. So, if you live in a region with historically bad hospitals, perhaps you want to integrate your coverage. Also, there can be long waits to see specialists, if your condition does not require immediate assistance. Or you may want to be hospitalized in a private clinic instead of a hospital, if you want privacy and fancy rooms, or you want your surgery to be scheduled pronto.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
the Finnish health care system strongly resembles those in other Nordic countries. It offers universal coverage for a comprehensive range of health services delivered primarily by publicly owned and operated providers funded mainly through general taxation. However, the Finnish system is more decentralized and mixed in its funding than other Nordic countries are.
The national administration does not organize services itself, but defines general health policy guidelines and directs the health care system at the state level. Policy guidance in social security, social welfare and health services fall under the responsibility of the national Ministry of Social Affairs and Health. The ministry sets broad development goals, prepares legislation and other keyreforms and oversees their implementation, and it engages in dialogue with political decision-makers.The majority of Finnish health care services are organized and provided by the municipal health care system. Municipalities are legally required to organize adequate health services for their residents.
Regarding "why have private insurance in a country with universal health care":
Voluntary (private) sickness insurance is pretty uncommon in Finland. Most individuals who purchase voluntary health insurance do so to limit their out-of-pocket payments for private care and the portion of outpatient drug charges not covered by the NHI. Additional reasons include shorter waiting times, the ability to choose a physician, direct access to a specialist, and the perception of better quality services. Patients do not need referrals to private hospitals if they intend to pay for their care with partial reimbursement from the NHI. Private providers can also offer patients shortcuts to municipality run hospitals, as private providers may be more willing to refer patients for specialty care. In contrast, public health centres may be more conservative about referrals because they are run by the municipalities that also pay for specialty care delivered by public hospitals.
.....
So.. over here everyone has the right to health and medical care. Local authorities provide health services at health centres, maternity and child welfare clinics, at schools, rehabilitation clinics and dental clinics. It is the duty of local authorities to make sure that residents have access to care if they become ill. Everyone also has the right to municipal dental care, or health insurance compensation for private dental care. Employers arrange preventative occupational health care for their employees.
All regular residents in Finland are entitled to sickness insurance compensation. When someone is ill and unable to go to work, loss of earnings is covered by a daily sickness allowance. If the employer pays wages or salary for the period of sickness, Kela will pay the daily sickness allowance for the corresponding period to the employer. Part of the cost of prescription medicines is reimbursed by national health insurance.
.... As for me. I'm a full time student in college - occasionally I work too, to get some extra money (in addition to the money I get from the government --> the Finnish society pays different allowances and benefits to guarantee that everyone has an equal opportunity to participate in working life and society. Financial support is given for studying, having a family, unemployment and many other situations.)... If I need to see a doctor for some reason I make an appointment to my doc in my local health care center (obviously) - it costs me about 20$ to see a doctor and that payment includes EVERYTHING (blood-tests.. xrays..ct.. mri..etc. everything!) - If i need to spend a night in the hospital, one day of hospital care costs around 20$ too - and that also includes everything.. If for some reason I'd want to see a private doc in a private hospital.. I can do that.. if I have the money to spend - just to see a private doctor it costs around 50 euros and that does not include anything else but seeing the doctor and him perhaps writing a prescription. - everything else costs more.
awesome information...thanks! i did/do know a decent amount on how universal healthcare, works, overall...but always great to get a bigger picture. funny tho, one of my very best friends is finnish, she was born and raised, ad still lives in helisinki...and it's she and her mother who i was referring to as to having private medical insurance...and she told me most people do opt for it. :P hahaha. i guess it's all who you know and their individual experiences......
awesome information...thanks! i did/do know a decent amount on how universal healthcare, works, overall...but always great to get a bigger picture. funny tho, one of my very best friends is finnish, she was born and raised, ad still lives in helisinki...and it's she and her mother who i was referring to as to having private medical insurance...and she told me most people do opt for it. :P hahaha. i guess it's all who you know and their individual experiences......
What I wrote on my previous post was from a study made a few years ago..
It really does depend on the people... Helsinki is propably one of the richest (and its the biggest) cities in Finland (well.. at least there's lots of really rich people) - so chances that people over there have more private med. insurances is much greater than if we think the whole country in general... or just about any other parts of this country..
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This is every other week, so a bit more than $250 per month. Family plan, low deduct, higher co-pay. At least $15 co-pay for everyone, every visit, any where. Some co-pays more (out of network).
I have a family of 4 and it is good insurance, but there are always the runarounds that come with BC/BS just being our administrator and my employer actually being self insured.
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i figure, overall....it probably evens out. people with universal healthcare more than likely pay a lot more in taxes to cover it, whereas we pay it out of pocket. i am truly amazed at the disparity in costs just amongst americans, hell even someone who has the same HMO as me, lives in the same geographic area, and pays soooo much less! so it's definitely what your employer kicks in that makes a big difference. me, i think universal healthcare is the way to go. make sure EVERYone has coverage at EVERY point in their life, while employed or not....and basically all share the same costs/burdens to fund it. i personally do find my healthcare to be excellent, overall....and i definitely don't wait for any needed services and such, but i know of others who do....and copays, etc, again....vary widely. i just think there has to be a better way to serve the needs of all, and for better costs/services, overall.
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in FULL?
damn lucky!
i never manage to score jobs like that....and i have worked for some damn fine companies. sheesh. :?
my sister gets her healthcare paid for 100% by her firm, AND for her husband as well! it's definitely a big added perquisite, right along with her car allowance. i just didn't realize how many people outside of the congress and senate anyway
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I went to the emergency room a few months back and paid about $1200 after all was said and done. I think my insurance paid about $500 total.
While we concentrate on what we actually pay, I'd like to see what the total cost of the monthly premium is. As of about a year ago, it was about $950 a month between employer and employee contribution at my work.
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My g/f doesn't have health insurance...and we can't afford to buy it for her. She can't get on my plan at my work because we aren't eligible for domestic partnership benefits because we only have one form of proof that we've lived together for 12 months or longer...we don't have a second form...a bank account, same car insurance policy...it sucks.
We're in a serious bind, and she's a temporary employee @ GE Healthcare...
*sigh* fuck health insurance. I honestly don't mean that, cause it's nice that we actually can get it...but it's so difficult sometimes, and I'm overwhelmed with helping her look...and she seriously needs to go to the doctor, but we cant' continue to pay what it costs to go with no coverage.
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not true.
excellent point. it is a totally viable option. The NHS might get some stick over here but its the greatest social policy carried out by the UK ever... imo... doesnt matter if someone earns £100k a year or 10k a year... they can rest assured that if they break their leg they will get seen, treated, phsyio, etc and it's all 'free' to them.
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i didnt realise you paid for it over in the land of Oz? i thought you had a NHS type system!
What is NHS? Maybe I should read back....
Private health insurance costs money....public health system doesn't. I will (possibly) want an elective caesarean so I need private health insurance. And don't even START about the c-section, Dunk!
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I agree that overall it evens out, the advantage we have is that it follows us from job to job or you still have health coverage if unemployed. The disadvantages are that the government tells us what procedures and test they will cover, and if it is not covered we must pay of pocket, we have a Doctor shortage so a lot of people end up at the ER or walk in clinics, which are not the best if you are managing a chronic illness. Truthfully I would rather pay health insurance premiums if it insured me that I could choose a DR. that I am comfortable with and give me a choice of what I want covered and what I would rather pay for out of pocket.
With the government program they try to create one plan to fit all, just doesn't work.
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oh exactly...i agree.
and even looking within our own, flawed system...the disparity of costs, etc....it would make a bit more 'sense' for it to be universal costs. also, looking at some others who may pay less monthly, but then someone mentioned their deductible, out of pocket costs later.....BIG difference. it's all so convoluted at this point. :P i truly hope that obama works on it as i know it was something he's discussed, and also one of the myriad reasons i supported him for president. no one system is *perfect*...there will always be flaws, and while yes we DO have coverage for those who cannot afford it, you have to be destitute. for people like me, soldily middle-class....i'd have to lose everything before i'd truly get 'help'...and most especially hen i retire, when you are older is when you most need healthcare.....and i shudder think what would happen without. in my current employement i have a pretty sweet deal upon retirement - although who knows how much costs may rise in time - but also, who knows if i will BE in this job until retirement? and still, i know if people with healthcare for life for little to no cost...so yea.....why can't that work for all? :P it's a BIG job. anyhooo....it's really interesting/informative to see how much people pay for their healthcare, and i also have to say.....seems a LOT of people get some damn fine benefits from their employers - kudos!
edit - btw - even with 'private insurance'.....aka HMOs here, they too will tell you what will be covered and what won't. granted, you can fight em, etc...but none the less....unless you truly have serious $$$ to pay cash for anything you want, there will always be someone telling you what they will or won't cover. whether the govt or insurance.
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It's the same here. We have a public health system that our taxes contribute towards, but you can also take up your own private health insurance. It gets you into private hospitals, better and faster care too and is especially useful if you plan on having a family.
My sister is on private - will be getting a caesarean (medical reasons) but still has to pay her consultant (about 2-3k I think), but she gets scans every month or so, special 4-d scans, baby checks etc.. She will get her own private room in the hospital.
My sis-in-law is going public - only had one scan so far at 3 months, and won't have another till June. She will have to stay in the ward with 4-6 other women, but that will be all for free.
I think the NHS has a much better system than here in Ireland. You get cheaper meds, better care etc... in Ireland it is pretty basic - if you want more you'll have to pay for it and you'll still get the ambulance bill etc at the end of the day. It costs €60+ to go see a doctor, and you have to spend €90+ a month on meds to get any help from the government.
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notice she pays $5 a week,....so not 'hundreds' at all, annually anyway. even $20 a week = $1040...pretty damn cheap annual cost for insurance. i pay $100 a month for my insurance, just for me.....and i have co-pays of $25 to any doctor, $75 for the ER.....and i think maybe $100 if i stay overnight in the hospital, and $10 to $40 co-pays for meds depending on what type of meds, generic/brand name, etc. otherwise, my insurance covers EVERYthing. plans, and their expenses, vary widely.....government or private employee......fed or state govt employee......just how much your employer pays......what kind of plans your employer offers......and what plan you ultimately choose to use from those choices. there is no one size fits all answer to this, b/c as you can see from this thread....huge variety of prices and coverage of insurance here. oh and FYI - what we pay for our health insurance is not taxed, it is taken out of paychecks PRE-tax, like a few other things, so we actually do get more in our pocket paywise. also, if your out of pocket expenses after insurance = 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, that then is a tax deduction. how the hell they come up with these costs is anyone's guess....no feckin' clue!
last year when i had my fall before MSG 2 and went to the ER....was there for hours, had some x-rays, meds, exam, given crutches and an aircast, etc......i paid $75. the actual bill for services was i think almost a grand. and yes, my insurance covered it - no paperwork, nada, just covered.
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i wonder what the above scenario would be like for someone who had no insurance...
i remember that fall i had just around the same time... went to ER.. got seen in 45 minutes... paid ZERO... no forms, or anything... just went home.
personally i think its shameful that the worlds richest country doesnt offer a decent health service to its citizens.
just an FYI - an ER CANNOT refuse service to ANYone, regardless of insurance, or not.
also, the reason i waited is b/c i actually live in an area with a LOT of people, and even at 1 AM...there were a lot of people in the ER besides me, with much more serious injuries - thus they were attended to first. i got a bed to rest until i could be attended to fully. overall, as a well employed individual i am quite satisified with what i pay for health insurance, copays, and what i pay in taxes.....overall seems quite reasonable for what i receive in return/ my only real beef is my property taxes :evil: but that is a whole other scenario, and determined on the state/county level.....and yes, i live in one of the top 10 most expensive places to live. i
however, i've said often enough i think we should adopt our own version of universal healthcare but luckily i DO corrently have excellent health service and coverage. it definitely would be nice to see that for all citizens, at all stages of life and employment. THAT is the real issue, and where many gaps come into play. the really poor and the really rich, are always set....it's all those in the middle class that have the true worries of inadequate or no insurance.
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well to be fair i never said they wouldnt refuse anyone... just wondered what level of care they would receive? come on... i've read one waitress on here who gives a shitty service to a family just because they dont tip... if a doctor knows an uninsured person is waiting to see him with a twisted ankle then he'll be at the end end end of a very long line.
Once, due to a misunderstanding, my parents were directed to the ER instead of urgent care for a strep throat swab. This was in Ohio. We were there for hours. I had the exam too because my son was sick. My insurance covered my visit. My parents, since they were visiting from Italy, didn't have insurance. When I looked at the bills, I noticed that my insurance got all sorts of discounts, and the bill ended up being (for them) about one tenth of what it ended up being for my parents. So, the way it works: insurance companies pay a fraction; uninsured people pay a ton. Makes sense, no?
I received a few calls from the hospital asking for my parents' payment. I told them we specified about a hundred times that we wanted to go to the urgent care department, and that they were just not going to pay 7000 dollars for a strep throat exam. In fact, after the exam came back negative, the doctor didn't even take the time to find out why my mother was not feeling well.
dunky, i know how you love to 'argue' about all things american
same with tipping.
at least healthcare IS an extremely important issue, thus why it also was a big issue in the forefront of the presidental election b/c a LOT of people want to see reform. as for tipping, while many of us agree it's a dumb system.....as i've said often enough, it just isn't even important enough to care about. most waitstaff LIKE our system b/c they definitely make far more $$$ than if they were simply paid a decent wage....and most diners simply don't give a shit. pay for it up front off the menu, or pay it in your tip...same difference...no one really cares. :P health insurance, THAT most care about.
meme, you've lived in italy and here in the states....i assume you had universal healthcare in italy? i AM curious....do you think you pay more here or there? pay in your taxes or pay out of pocket....is there a big difference in what you outlay? i am curious...
it IS so difficult to determine our individual costs, b/c outside of what we pay in for our insurance - which as i mentioned comes out of your pay PREtax, so actually saves you more....plus out of pocket expenses can also be tax deductible at times, etc. and YES, insurance companies do pay LESS for care, they have the docotrs/hospitals by the balls.....so all the more reason if they pay less, the governement could do so as well....so same difference, insurance companies or the governement.......it could be done! a flat rate every employed person pays in, probably the same as what we do now - although definitely may be more/less for some. looking at this thread tho, a great # seem to pay around $50 a paycheck for an individual....so only those who pay a lot more or less would truly see a difference - and that would probably be enough to support all, at least overall. i think it would cut a lot of waste, but it will also piss off the health insurance industry and that seems the 'issue.' :evil: :roll: :? eh, i am sure the lot of em could go and take the same jobs, overall.....just for the govt.
btw - funny......while i lived in london i got strep throat, twice....and i hear that is rare. mostly b/c the doctor who attended to me didn't actually treat the strep throat, just the symptoms. so yea, i took really good drugs that made me feel great
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I wasn't working in Italy, so it really was awesomely cheap
What everyone pays of course depends on what everyone makes, in a universal healthcare system, since taxation is progressive, and that's how health care is paid for. In terms of the overall costs of care there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the US system is more expensive. Doctors make A LOT more money here, so there's that. But also, if you think about it, when you have a health insurance industry you don't pay for care only, but for that industry as well. Millions of jobs. Also, it is unthinkable for a medical office in the US to not have AT LEAST one person whose job is doing the billing/insurance work. In Italy, docs only need scheduling help.
hahahahaha.....that'll make a big difference. :P
and sure, i kinda figured.
yes, i think it's difficult b/c just like the sneiorty system in the 10c
question for ya tho - i understand w/o health insurance it would be easier/more direct for the doctors to get paid....but don't they have to do ANY paperwork for the governement? file forms showing who they treat, what they do, costs and such, to get paid? obviously, it would be a lot LESS work....but i would think they still need more help than scheduling. and i do also wonder, with so many who say their universal healthcare is so fabulous....why do so many have private insurance too? i have a few friends overseas.....and they have private insurance anyway. i don't get it. i do understand it still is a VAST improvement that EVERYone gets healthcare, period......i just wonder what is the 'need' for private insurance if you have full coverage publicly thru taxes.
btw - i realize our SYTEM would definitely be more expensive..i was simply curious about what you thought/experienced on an INDIVIDUAL level, which cost YOU more. but you don't know.
i think in the US, rightly or wrongly....and this covers a lot more than simply health insurance...but it's almost a national attitude of being independent, everyone fends for themselves, be self-supportive, etc. obviously, we DO have government programs, public education, etc.......but many were fought for a long time too. i think it IS changing, and people are realizing it Is for the greater good, the benefit of all....to have a national healthcare service, to provide services to protect citizens, etc. but you bet, there are always people afraid of the cheats, those who abuse the system, etc, etc. hell, i'll even admit it kinda pisses me off that 65% of my insane property taxes goes to support my school system and i don't even have kids. now, ifully agree with supporting the school systems, i think it's important as a society......but it annoys me that we carry this burden, and it is quite a lot......whereas others who don't own property yet have 5 kids in the system pay nothing. so yes...i think relating the stories, there are people who don't want to foot the bill for others healthcare, or think they will be supporting 'free-loaders' or what have you. not saying it's right, just saying why i think on some level....ithere still are people against the system. me, i do think education and healthcare for all citizens, regardless, is of paramount importance....so yea...i may be pissed about my property taxesm :P and i think it could be done more fairly there...i totally support healthcare reform, even if i help pay for others rugrats.
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I only know the Italian system. In Italy, there are vast disparities in how health care works across regions. I have never had bad experiences, but I am also only familiar with regions that notoriously have excellent systems: Val d'Aosta, Lombardia, Toscana, Piemonte. So, if you live in a region with historically bad hospitals, perhaps you want to integrate your coverage. Also, there can be long waits to see specialists, if your condition does not require immediate assistance. Or you may want to be hospitalized in a private clinic instead of a hospital, if you want privacy and fancy rooms, or you want your surgery to be scheduled pronto.
the Finnish health care system strongly resembles those in other Nordic countries. It offers universal coverage for a comprehensive range of health services delivered primarily by publicly owned and operated providers funded mainly through general taxation. However, the Finnish system is more decentralized and mixed in its funding than other Nordic countries are.
The national administration does not organize services itself, but defines general health policy guidelines and directs the health care system at the state level. Policy guidance in social security, social welfare and health services fall under the responsibility of the national Ministry of Social Affairs and Health. The ministry sets broad development goals, prepares legislation and other keyreforms and oversees their implementation, and it engages in dialogue with political decision-makers.The majority of Finnish health care services are organized and provided by the municipal health care system. Municipalities are legally required to organize adequate health services for their residents.
Regarding "why have private insurance in a country with universal health care":
Voluntary (private) sickness insurance is pretty uncommon in Finland. Most individuals who purchase voluntary health insurance do so to limit their out-of-pocket payments for private care and the portion of outpatient drug charges not covered by the NHI. Additional reasons include shorter waiting times, the ability to choose a physician, direct access to a specialist, and the perception of better quality services. Patients do not need referrals to private hospitals if they intend to pay for their care with partial reimbursement from the NHI. Private providers can also offer patients shortcuts to municipality run hospitals, as private providers may be more willing to refer patients for specialty care. In contrast, public health centres may be more conservative about referrals because they are run by the municipalities that also pay for specialty care delivered by public hospitals.
.....
So.. over here everyone has the right to health and medical care. Local authorities provide health services at health centres, maternity and child welfare clinics, at schools, rehabilitation clinics and dental clinics. It is the duty of local authorities to make sure that residents have access to care if they become ill. Everyone also has the right to municipal dental care, or health insurance compensation for private dental care. Employers arrange preventative occupational health care for their employees.
All regular residents in Finland are entitled to sickness insurance compensation. When someone is ill and unable to go to work, loss of earnings is covered by a daily sickness allowance. If the employer pays wages or salary for the period of sickness, Kela will pay the daily sickness allowance for the corresponding period to the employer. Part of the cost of prescription medicines is reimbursed by national health insurance.
.... As for me. I'm a full time student in college - occasionally I work too, to get some extra money (in addition to the money I get from the government --> the Finnish society pays different allowances and benefits to guarantee that everyone has an equal opportunity to participate in working life and society. Financial support is given for studying, having a family, unemployment and many other situations.)... If I need to see a doctor for some reason I make an appointment to my doc in my local health care center (obviously) - it costs me about 20$ to see a doctor and that payment includes EVERYTHING (blood-tests.. xrays..ct.. mri..etc. everything!) - If i need to spend a night in the hospital, one day of hospital care costs around 20$ too - and that also includes everything.. If for some reason I'd want to see a private doc in a private hospital.. I can do that.. if I have the money to spend - just to see a private doctor it costs around 50 euros and that does not include anything else but seeing the doctor and him perhaps writing a prescription. - everything else costs more.
for more info about Finland --> http://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/english/index.html
...about finnish health care system: http://www.isc.hbs.edu/pdf/Finnish_Heal ... RA2009.pdf
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What I wrote on my previous post was from a study made a few years ago..
It really does depend on the people... Helsinki is propably one of the richest (and its the biggest) cities in Finland (well.. at least there's lots of really rich people) - so chances that people over there have more private med. insurances is much greater than if we think the whole country in general... or just about any other parts of this country..
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This is every other week, so a bit more than $250 per month. Family plan, low deduct, higher co-pay. At least $15 co-pay for everyone, every visit, any where. Some co-pays more (out of network).
I have a family of 4 and it is good insurance, but there are always the runarounds that come with BC/BS just being our administrator and my employer actually being self insured.