the most solid proof that obama isn't a real agent of change

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  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    soulsinging wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.

    Yes, pretty much. The stem cell thing is moronic.
    Agreed.
    Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.

    I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    keeponrockin wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.

    Yes, pretty much. The stem cell thing is moronic.
    Agreed.
    Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.

    I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!

    Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but........
    Our govt was founded on judeo christian philosophy. But maybe guys think we shouldn't have values,morals,or any kind of standards .This is one of the reasons why the country is in the shape it's in. Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.

    I agree with this (except for singling out gangsta rap, people said the same about rock and roll back in the day, it's absurd)... however, what does any of that have to do with Christianity?

    ps. Our government was NOT founded on Judeo-Christian principles. In fact, many of the founding fathers were adamantly opposed to any Christian or religious influences on governance. This whole "this is a Christian country" crap was all magically invented in the 1950's.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    prfctlefts wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Agreed.
    Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.

    I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!

    Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but........
    Our govt was founded on judeo christian philosophy. But maybe guys think we shouldn't have values,morals,or any kind of standards .This is one of the reasons why the country is in the shape it's in. Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.


    you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.



    as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    you really think gangsta rap doesn't have an affect on young black kids or white kids ? Rock music doesn't glorify violence or degrade women or brag about how much crack their selling.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prfctlefts wrote:
    you really think gangsta rap doesn't have an affect on young black kids or white kids ? Rock music doesn't glorify violence or degrade women or brag about how much crack their selling.

    Of course it does, so did rock music. You're joking with that last sentence right? Did you listen to any 70s-80s metal? It was all about doing drugs and screwing women. People freaked out in the 50's when Elvis shaking his hips, they thought it would be the downfall of our whole society the way he was acting all sexual. Gangsta rap is nothing new.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    Families can't rely on the government to provide their censorship for them. Parents have to teach their kids right and wrong, and stop using the TV and the internet as the babysitter for their children. FUCK CENSORSHIP.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.

    Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?

    As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.

    But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    edited April 2009
    soulsinging wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.

    Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?

    As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.

    But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.

    I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
    you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?
    Post edited by WaveCameCrashin on
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Families can't rely on the government to provide their censorship for them. Parents have to teach their kids right and wrong, and stop using the TV and the internet as the babysitter for their children. FUCK CENSORSHIP.

    Im with you on that V.G. It comes down to the parents, but sometimes the parents can't always be there.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    prfctlefts wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?

    As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.

    But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.

    I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
    you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?

    Standards that you want to set based on your interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I'm comparing 50 to LZ. Every major music genre that has been popular with youth has been decried by old farts like you as a sign of the decay of our moral values. It's nonsense. But please, tell me how banning research that could cure diabetes and alzheimer's is somehow going to fix our inner cities or the fact that we have vacuous tv programming?
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Im with you on that V.G. It comes down to the parents, but sometimes the parents can't always be there.

    That's my beef with it all. Not that parents can always be there anyway, but they are around a lot less because it costs so much to live anymore, and responsible parents have to pick between their second job and spending time with their children. Who raises the kids then? Strangers and the state. Day care, schools, television, etc...

    How do you stop this vicious cycle from happening? Reduce the size of government at all levels, and lower taxes. Then we can take care of ourselves without paying for it.
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    edited April 2009
    Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
    Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
    Post edited by WaveCameCrashin on
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    soulsinging wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    soulsinging wrote:
    Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?

    As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.

    But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.

    I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
    you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?

    Standards that you want to set based on your interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I'm comparing 50 to LZ. Every major music genre that has been popular with youth has been decried by old farts like you as a sign of the decay of our moral values. It's nonsense. But please, tell me how banning research that could cure diabetes and alzheimer's is somehow going to fix our inner cities or the fact that we have vacuous tv programming?

    ther you go again putting words in my mouth. I dont recall even mentioning the bible in my o.p do you even read my post or do you just assume thats what I said what If I was assume you were a dork just by looking at your facebook photo ? would that be fair to assume? Oh and Im only 34 hardly an old fart :roll: I just happen to think gangsta rap is harmful to kids. If adults want to listen to that shit I could fucking care less. Let me ask you this , Would you let your 13 year old listen to 50, Juvenile, Lil Wayne, M&M, or Snoop Dog ?
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
    Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.




    "In God We Trust" was NOT on our currency from day one....nor was "under God" in the pledge of allegiance from day one.....etc. all of this occurred in the 1950s. interesting eh?


    our country is to be based on religious FREEDOM...and the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
    so yes, judeo-christian morals or whatever else.....no place in our governement. IF sonme of our laws follow similar standards, that may well simply be b/c we as a collective society deem them good standards, but in NO way should any one relgiiob hold sway over how laws are made in this country. this is just common sense. i believe many of the northern european countries are fairly secular, and yet as far as standards and morals...pretty high imo. caring for the good of your citizens, preserving their personal freedoms while providing care and safe-guards for their overall well-being...pretty damn fine standards to me.


    i sad as much earlier:

    decides2dream wrote:
    you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.



    as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
    Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.

    They were so religious they supported the "seperation of church and state"???? Would you support that today if it were only being proposed now? Or would you rally against it and say that the founding fathers never would have supported such a thing?
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    decides2dream wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
    Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.




    "In God We Trust" was NOT on our currency from day one....nor was "under God" in the pledge of allegiance from day one.....etc. all of this occurred in the 1950s. interesting eh?


    our country is to be based on religious FREEDOM...and the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
    so yes, judeo-christian morals or whatever else.....no place in our governement. IF sonme of our laws follow similar standards, that may well simply be b/c we as a collective society deem them good standards, but in NO way should any one relgiiob hold sway over how laws are made in this country. this is just common sense. i believe many of the northern european countries are fairly secular, and yet as far as standards and morals...pretty high imo. caring for the good of your citizens, preserving their personal freedoms while providing care and safe-guards for their overall well-being...pretty damn fine standards to me.


    i sad as much earlier:

    decides2dream wrote:
    you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.



    as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.

    actually it first appeared on our currency in 1864 but was not passed into congress until 1956. Interesting eh?
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    ledvedderman wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
    Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.

    They were so religious they supported the "seperation of church and state"???? Would you support that today if it were only being proposed now? Or would you rally against it and say that the founding fathers never would have supported such a thing?

    Of course I support the seperation of church and state. No govt should impose religion on one. thats what it means in a nut shell.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    prfctlefts wrote:
    America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world....
    FUCK YEAH!


    :roll:

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