obama is just another puppet of the ruling elite. he's got a nice smile, and can speak in complete sentences, but all those characteristics do is make him even more dangerous than his predecessor, because it allows more people to fall for the act.
meet the new boss. same as the old boss.
I've said the exact same thing! All it means is that he'll be better at lying and getting away with it. It means nothing without actions that bring some actual change to this country.
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Hey Sweetie.. Great to hear from you again!!!
Catching any of Ed's gig?
Hey there Cosmo! It's been a crazy last several months for me but I'm doing fine.
Nope, no Ed shows for me...to friggin' broke :P Maybe next time.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
hi abook, its been a long time. hope all is well with you.
ok back to this post . so I'm confused. you sound like you want these guys to go home and have a "better life". why?
sure there is a chance that one or two of these guys do not deserve to be in jail. but do you realize who you are talking about? they slice your childs throat in front of you and make you watch. they are sworn enemies of you. yes, specifically you.
Specifically me??? :shock: Are you sure?...I thought I was one of Al Qaeda's staunchest defenders here! How could they?! :P
Hi jlew, nice to see you here.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Closing Gitmo.... and sending all those detainees to one of the other detention camps we have scattered all over the globe. You guys act as if he's sending them all home. .
i see. So, we should close Gitmo, and... just send all the prisoners home!? What, give them a suit and a couple hundred bucks and release them? While we're at it why don't we close Angola and send all those guys home also. Fuck, there are all kinds of prisons in the United States filled with some pretty bad guys. In the name of prgress i say we free them all. :roll:
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The problem with Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is this... We are creating terrorists there. By picking up boatloads of people from the Middle East and holding them there... some of them were picked up on accusations or 'anonymous tips', we are converting them to the fanatical side of the fence. Imagine someone that doesn't like you... calls the cops and says you are a bank robber and the cops come and pick you up and lock you in Rikers Island based on that one piece of information. You are not charged with anything and are held for 8 years. Do you understand and agree with the cops and the court systems? Or you you grow dissent and hatred for them? What about your Family and friends? Will they understand and agree with the system and accept it? Or do they also build hatred towards the people responsible for your incarceration?
When we release them... do you think they will say... "No problem... I understand what yo are doing.". Or will they band up with terrorists... something they would probably not have done previously? So, what do we do? Hold them because they might (and probably will) seek vengence against us? We created their dissent and hatred. We created this situation. The longer we hold them, the more they will hate us. Wouldn't your hatred build if they continued to imprison you based on their belief that you might seek retribution?
And the ones we are able to identify as terrorists... they can be held at places like Pelican Bay or on U.S. military base prisons. We are America, not the Soviet Union, Iran, North Korea or Communist China. When we act like them, we stop becoming America.
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As for the inmates in the U.S... they were charged and convicted based upon the evidence against them. There's a difference.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
hi abook, its been a long time. hope all is well with you.
ok back to this post . so I'm confused. you sound like you want these guys to go home and have a "better life". why?
sure there is a chance that one or two of these guys do not deserve to be in jail. but do you realize who you are talking about? they slice your childs throat in front of you and make you watch. they are sworn enemies of you. yes, specifically you.
Specifically me??? :shock: Are you sure?...I thought I was one of Al Qaeda's staunchest defenders here! How could they?! :P
Hi jlew, nice to see you here.
yes you. you are a non muslim american. they would slice your throat without hesitation. I just really cant understand why you are defended them.
hi abook, its been a long time. hope all is well with you.
ok back to this post . so I'm confused. you sound like you want these guys to go home and have a "better life". why?
sure there is a chance that one or two of these guys do not deserve to be in jail. but do you realize who you are talking about? they slice your childs throat in front of you and make you watch. they are sworn enemies of you. yes, specifically you.
Specifically me??? :shock: Are you sure?...I thought I was one of Al Qaeda's staunchest defenders here! How could they?! :P
Hi jlew, nice to see you here.
yes you. you are a non muslim american. they would slice your throat without hesitation. I just really cant understand why you are defended them.
How do you know all of this is true of the detainees in Gitmo?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How do you know all of this is true of the detainees in Gitmo?
it definitely doesn't apply to everyone there. like I said, some probably deserve to, at the very least, defend themselves. I've researched the names of many people there when the names were released. most were captured on the battle field in Afghanistan. those individuals should be given the rights of the geneva convention IMO. list of detainees..http://wid.ap.org/documents/detainees/list.html
i agree with the original poster's sentiment that real change requires a drastic overhaul of the system and in the past have said that obama will be like the others ... well, in the first few months - it's safe to say he isn't bush nor a lot of the others ... yes - some things are PR ... smoke and mirrors but understanding that he is working within a corrupt system to begin with - i will give him some kudos for doing something ...
some things i like and hope he has the courage to actually see through:
* cuba (he's talking to cuba)
* ditto for iran
* move to cleaner energy sources
* it's not my way or the highway approach
* a garden at the white house!
at the end of the day - real change has to start with the individual ... people have to educate themselves on the issues and be active participants in the democracy ... until then - all you will get are corporately financed candidates and for being one - obama isn't that bad ... it could be A LOT worse ... as we've seen ...
I recall reading an article about him ordering everyone in Gitmo to either be charged or released. If I'm wrong about that, my bad. So then... stem cells? Global gag rule? Any response to undoing some of the moronic Christian bullshit?
Sure, he is better than Bush but who wouldn't be, really? He's done a few things to pacify the masses and put forth the illusion of change and very little else. All the rest seems pretty 'business as usual' to me. I guess I just expect more from our leaders since we are the ones placing them in their positions. I view it to be very plausable that we could really turn this country around if we'd stop limiting our expectations and settling for this extremely minimal perspective of what is possible.
Or is it easier to just ignore those to prove your point that Obama is an evil warlord plotting world domination?
:roll:
I'm not gonna bother with addressing any of these over-the-top exagerations of what you assume I think. Comment on what I've said and stop sensationalizing this discussion by putting words in my mouth.
Comment on what YOU have said? How about you comment on my points about the global gag rule and stem cells eh?
Better than Bush is still a good thing. What you left-wing loons don't realize is that most of the country doesn't AGREE with your policies. Just like most of the country doesn't agree with the agenda of the Christian right. So no, Obama is not going to turn the US into a hippy, peace and love, socialist paradise in... how long has he been in office? THREE MONTHS? What exactly were you hoping to see him get done in 3 months?
This minimal perspective isn't about what's possible, it's about what the US people want. It's called compromise, which is a term I know you don't understand, but it's a fact of reality in any society. No one person gets their whole way 100% of the time. You listen to both sides, and chart a wise course somewhere in the middle. So far, Obama's been doing a decent job of this. Bush was the opposite of this... he refused to listen to any side but his own and refused to compromise. I was under the impression you hated him for it, but now I see you're ok with a narrow-minded president that ignores most of the country, as long as he's on your side.
I recall reading an article about him ordering everyone in Gitmo to either be charged or released. If I'm wrong about that, my bad. So then... stem cells? Global gag rule? Any response to undoing some of the moronic Christian bullshit?
Sure, he is better than Bush but who wouldn't be, really? He's done a few things to pacify the masses and put forth the illusion of change and very little else. All the rest seems pretty 'business as usual' to me. I guess I just expect more from our leaders since we are the ones placing them in their positions. I view it to be very plausable that we could really turn this country around if we'd stop limiting our expectations and settling for this extremely minimal perspective of what is possible.
Or is it easier to just ignore those to prove your point that Obama is an evil warlord plotting world domination?
:roll:
I'm not gonna bother with addressing any of these over-the-top exagerations of what you assume I think. Comment on what I've said and stop sensationalizing this discussion by putting words in my mouth.
Comment on what YOU have said? How about you comment on my points about the global gag rule and stem cells eh?
Better than Bush is still a good thing. What you left-wing loons don't realize is that most of the country doesn't AGREE with your policies. Just like most of the country doesn't agree with the agenda of the Christian right. So no, Obama is not going to turn the US into a hippy, peace and love, socialist paradise in... how long has he been in office? THREE MONTHS? What exactly were you hoping to see him get done in 3 months?
This minimal perspective isn't about what's possible, it's about what the US people want. It's called compromise, which is a term I know you don't understand, but it's a fact of reality in any society. No one person gets their whole way 100% of the time. You listen to both sides, and chart a wise course somewhere in the middle. So far, Obama's been doing a decent job of this. Bush was the opposite of this... he refused to listen to any side but his own and refused to compromise. I was under the impression you hated him for it, but now I see you're ok with a narrow-minded president that ignores most of the country, as long as he's on your side.
moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.
moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.
Yes, pretty much. The stem cell thing is moronic.
Agreed.
Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.
I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.
Yes, pretty much. The stem cell thing is moronic.
Agreed.
Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.
I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but........
Our govt was founded on judeo christian philosophy. But maybe guys think we shouldn't have values,morals,or any kind of standards .This is one of the reasons why the country is in the shape it's in. Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.
Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.
I agree with this (except for singling out gangsta rap, people said the same about rock and roll back in the day, it's absurd)... however, what does any of that have to do with Christianity?
ps. Our government was NOT founded on Judeo-Christian principles. In fact, many of the founding fathers were adamantly opposed to any Christian or religious influences on governance. This whole "this is a Christian country" crap was all magically invented in the 1950's.
Agreed.
Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.
I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but........
Our govt was founded on judeo christian philosophy. But maybe guys think we shouldn't have values,morals,or any kind of standards .This is one of the reasons why the country is in the shape it's in. Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.
you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.
as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
you really think gangsta rap doesn't have an affect on young black kids or white kids ? Rock music doesn't glorify violence or degrade women or brag about how much crack their selling.
you really think gangsta rap doesn't have an affect on young black kids or white kids ? Rock music doesn't glorify violence or degrade women or brag about how much crack their selling.
Of course it does, so did rock music. You're joking with that last sentence right? Did you listen to any 70s-80s metal? It was all about doing drugs and screwing women. People freaked out in the 50's when Elvis shaking his hips, they thought it would be the downfall of our whole society the way he was acting all sexual. Gangsta rap is nothing new.
Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.
Families can't rely on the government to provide their censorship for them. Parents have to teach their kids right and wrong, and stop using the TV and the internet as the babysitter for their children. FUCK CENSORSHIP.
Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.
Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?
As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.
But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
Well it might have been about gettin high and laid but they sure as hell didn't sing about blasting some one and they didn't sing about treating women like whores. It's not even close to what the music was in the 50's or 70's. And I don't even think it's music for that matter.
Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?
As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.
But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?
Families can't rely on the government to provide their censorship for them. Parents have to teach their kids right and wrong, and stop using the TV and the internet as the babysitter for their children. FUCK CENSORSHIP.
Im with you on that V.G. It comes down to the parents, but sometimes the parents can't always be there.
Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?
As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.
But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?
Standards that you want to set based on your interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I'm comparing 50 to LZ. Every major music genre that has been popular with youth has been decried by old farts like you as a sign of the decay of our moral values. It's nonsense. But please, tell me how banning research that could cure diabetes and alzheimer's is somehow going to fix our inner cities or the fact that we have vacuous tv programming?
Im with you on that V.G. It comes down to the parents, but sometimes the parents can't always be there.
That's my beef with it all. Not that parents can always be there anyway, but they are around a lot less because it costs so much to live anymore, and responsible parents have to pick between their second job and spending time with their children. Who raises the kids then? Strangers and the state. Day care, schools, television, etc...
How do you stop this vicious cycle from happening? Reduce the size of government at all levels, and lower taxes. Then we can take care of ourselves without paying for it.
Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?
As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.
But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?
Standards that you want to set based on your interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I'm comparing 50 to LZ. Every major music genre that has been popular with youth has been decried by old farts like you as a sign of the decay of our moral values. It's nonsense. But please, tell me how banning research that could cure diabetes and alzheimer's is somehow going to fix our inner cities or the fact that we have vacuous tv programming?
ther you go again putting words in my mouth. I dont recall even mentioning the bible in my o.p do you even read my post or do you just assume thats what I said what If I was assume you were a dork just by looking at your facebook photo ? would that be fair to assume? Oh and Im only 34 hardly an old fart :roll: I just happen to think gangsta rap is harmful to kids. If adults want to listen to that shit I could fucking care less. Let me ask you this , Would you let your 13 year old listen to 50, Juvenile, Lil Wayne, M&M, or Snoop Dog ?
Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
"In God We Trust" was NOT on our currency from day one....nor was "under God" in the pledge of allegiance from day one.....etc. all of this occurred in the 1950s. interesting eh?
our country is to be based on religious FREEDOM...and the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
so yes, judeo-christian morals or whatever else.....no place in our governement. IF sonme of our laws follow similar standards, that may well simply be b/c we as a collective society deem them good standards, but in NO way should any one relgiiob hold sway over how laws are made in this country. this is just common sense. i believe many of the northern european countries are fairly secular, and yet as far as standards and morals...pretty high imo. caring for the good of your citizens, preserving their personal freedoms while providing care and safe-guards for their overall well-being...pretty damn fine standards to me.
you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.
as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
They were so religious they supported the "seperation of church and state"???? Would you support that today if it were only being proposed now? Or would you rally against it and say that the founding fathers never would have supported such a thing?
Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
"In God We Trust" was NOT on our currency from day one....nor was "under God" in the pledge of allegiance from day one.....etc. all of this occurred in the 1950s. interesting eh?
our country is to be based on religious FREEDOM...and the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
so yes, judeo-christian morals or whatever else.....no place in our governement. IF sonme of our laws follow similar standards, that may well simply be b/c we as a collective society deem them good standards, but in NO way should any one relgiiob hold sway over how laws are made in this country. this is just common sense. i believe many of the northern european countries are fairly secular, and yet as far as standards and morals...pretty high imo. caring for the good of your citizens, preserving their personal freedoms while providing care and safe-guards for their overall well-being...pretty damn fine standards to me.
you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.
as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
actually it first appeared on our currency in 1864 but was not passed into congress until 1956. Interesting eh?
Our country was indeed founded on Judeo-christian principles.Just look at our currency "IN God WE TRUST' The founding fathers were for the most part believing Christians and that the future strength and unique meaning of the country profoundly depend on how these principles impact on the way we presently govern and live. America is the strongest,freest,most Generous country in the world but our experience of freedom is a direct outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian religious structure.This religious dimension is foundational to our liberties Our Liberty is in peril if the Judeo-Christian consensus weakens.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
They were so religious they supported the "seperation of church and state"???? Would you support that today if it were only being proposed now? Or would you rally against it and say that the founding fathers never would have supported such a thing?
Of course I support the seperation of church and state. No govt should impose religion on one. thats what it means in a nut shell.
Comments
Hey there Cosmo! It's been a crazy last several months for me but I'm doing fine.
Nope, no Ed shows for me...to friggin' broke :P Maybe next time.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Specifically me??? :shock: Are you sure?...I thought I was one of Al Qaeda's staunchest defenders here! How could they?! :P
Hi jlew, nice to see you here.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The problem with Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is this... We are creating terrorists there. By picking up boatloads of people from the Middle East and holding them there... some of them were picked up on accusations or 'anonymous tips', we are converting them to the fanatical side of the fence. Imagine someone that doesn't like you... calls the cops and says you are a bank robber and the cops come and pick you up and lock you in Rikers Island based on that one piece of information. You are not charged with anything and are held for 8 years. Do you understand and agree with the cops and the court systems? Or you you grow dissent and hatred for them? What about your Family and friends? Will they understand and agree with the system and accept it? Or do they also build hatred towards the people responsible for your incarceration?
When we release them... do you think they will say... "No problem... I understand what yo are doing.". Or will they band up with terrorists... something they would probably not have done previously? So, what do we do? Hold them because they might (and probably will) seek vengence against us? We created their dissent and hatred. We created this situation. The longer we hold them, the more they will hate us. Wouldn't your hatred build if they continued to imprison you based on their belief that you might seek retribution?
And the ones we are able to identify as terrorists... they can be held at places like Pelican Bay or on U.S. military base prisons. We are America, not the Soviet Union, Iran, North Korea or Communist China. When we act like them, we stop becoming America.
...
As for the inmates in the U.S... they were charged and convicted based upon the evidence against them. There's a difference.
Hail, Hail!!!
yes you. you are a non muslim american. they would slice your throat without hesitation. I just really cant understand why you are defended them.
How do you know all of this is true of the detainees in Gitmo?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
it definitely doesn't apply to everyone there. like I said, some probably deserve to, at the very least, defend themselves. I've researched the names of many people there when the names were released. most were captured on the battle field in Afghanistan. those individuals should be given the rights of the geneva convention IMO. list of detainees..http://wid.ap.org/documents/detainees/list.html
but others do not...like this guy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Abdalla_Hassan
"The detainee affirmed that if a leader of his tribe ordered an attack on America, he would be bound by duty to obey."
you want to give this guy a "better life" ?
some things i like and hope he has the courage to actually see through:
* cuba (he's talking to cuba)
* ditto for iran
* move to cleaner energy sources
* it's not my way or the highway approach
* a garden at the white house!
at the end of the day - real change has to start with the individual ... people have to educate themselves on the issues and be active participants in the democracy ... until then - all you will get are corporately financed candidates and for being one - obama isn't that bad ... it could be A LOT worse ... as we've seen ...
Comment on what YOU have said? How about you comment on my points about the global gag rule and stem cells eh?
Better than Bush is still a good thing. What you left-wing loons don't realize is that most of the country doesn't AGREE with your policies. Just like most of the country doesn't agree with the agenda of the Christian right. So no, Obama is not going to turn the US into a hippy, peace and love, socialist paradise in... how long has he been in office? THREE MONTHS? What exactly were you hoping to see him get done in 3 months?
This minimal perspective isn't about what's possible, it's about what the US people want. It's called compromise, which is a term I know you don't understand, but it's a fact of reality in any society. No one person gets their whole way 100% of the time. You listen to both sides, and chart a wise course somewhere in the middle. So far, Obama's been doing a decent job of this. Bush was the opposite of this... he refused to listen to any side but his own and refused to compromise. I was under the impression you hated him for it, but now I see you're ok with a narrow-minded president that ignores most of the country, as long as he's on your side.
moronic christian bullshit? So If anybody disagrees with you on stem cell research were morons ? That's real nice soulsinging way to go.
Yes, pretty much. The stem cell thing is moronic.
Pushing Christian Values into government = also moronic.
I don't care if you believe in a flying spaghetti monster at home, stay the hell out of government!
Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it but........
Our govt was founded on judeo christian philosophy. But maybe guys think we shouldn't have values,morals,or any kind of standards .This is one of the reasons why the country is in the shape it's in. Have any of you guys seen some of these reality shows on MTV or VH1? PARENTAL CONTROL or ROCK OF LOVE. I cant believe some of the stuff they show and kids are watching this crap and their parents could care less.Not to mention the effect GANGSTA RAP has on a lot of kids and the Internet allows people to say whatever they want about someone and not have to be held accountable.People would think twice about what they post sometimes if the other person was in the same room as them. I think we have become desensitized to a lot of this stuff or if it doesn't affect us personally then we could care less. I don't expect everyone to live their life like an episode of Leave it to Beaver but people need to start caring more and take thier eyes off them selves.
I agree with this (except for singling out gangsta rap, people said the same about rock and roll back in the day, it's absurd)... however, what does any of that have to do with Christianity?
ps. Our government was NOT founded on Judeo-Christian principles. In fact, many of the founding fathers were adamantly opposed to any Christian or religious influences on governance. This whole "this is a Christian country" crap was all magically invented in the 1950's.
you think w/o judeo-christian 'values'....that there can be NO values/standards/morals? seriously? religion didn't invent morals and values, if anything...i'd say religions grew out of specific morals, values and standards. for a country with a major tenet for religious freedom and seperation of church and state.....it still seems like a whole lotta people seemed to miss that memo.
as to obama....differing perspectives. i still see him as an agent of change. overall, i am impressed with almost all he has set in motion since taking office, and i think it bodes well for what else he may plan to accomplish, and thus for our country.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Of course it does, so did rock music. You're joking with that last sentence right? Did you listen to any 70s-80s metal? It was all about doing drugs and screwing women. People freaked out in the 50's when Elvis shaking his hips, they thought it would be the downfall of our whole society the way he was acting all sexual. Gangsta rap is nothing new.
Read a bio on Led Zep and how they treated their groupies, then come back and tell me they weren't singing about treating women like whores. Have you heard the Lemon Song? Whole Lotta Love? You think those are about monogamous relationships with their wives?
As to blasting someone, have you heard inner city murder stats? There was violence in the city long before hip hop. They were rapping about what life was like for them there, the 80s in the ghetto was pretty awful. Since hip hop has become more popular, that kind of gang violence has actually decreased... they have an outlet now.
But none of this has anything to do with your ridiculous insinuation that if we somehow pass the Bible into law everything will be ok. Banning life-saving stem cell research is not going to stop young poor urban youth from getting shot.
I never said there wasn't violence in the inner city before crap I mean rap. :roll:
you sure are good at putting words in my mouth.typical of someone in law school ,just what this country needs more lawyers. I never said we should pass the bible in to law and if we dont we are going to go down the drain, What I said was we have to have standards. I think you are confusing hip hop with gangsta rap there's a difference, G.RAP GLORIFYS SELLING DRUGS, VIOLENCE, AND DEGRADING WOMEN. There's nothing Positive about gangsta rap. You're comparing 50cent to led zepplin ? Are you nuts ?
Im with you on that V.G. It comes down to the parents, but sometimes the parents can't always be there.
Standards that you want to set based on your interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I'm comparing 50 to LZ. Every major music genre that has been popular with youth has been decried by old farts like you as a sign of the decay of our moral values. It's nonsense. But please, tell me how banning research that could cure diabetes and alzheimer's is somehow going to fix our inner cities or the fact that we have vacuous tv programming?
That's my beef with it all. Not that parents can always be there anyway, but they are around a lot less because it costs so much to live anymore, and responsible parents have to pick between their second job and spending time with their children. Who raises the kids then? Strangers and the state. Day care, schools, television, etc...
How do you stop this vicious cycle from happening? Reduce the size of government at all levels, and lower taxes. Then we can take care of ourselves without paying for it.
Secular systems boggle and weave with high sounding phrases,but ultimately slip into ambiguity trying to find a lasting reason for universal respect and equality.
ther you go again putting words in my mouth. I dont recall even mentioning the bible in my o.p do you even read my post or do you just assume thats what I said what If I was assume you were a dork just by looking at your facebook photo ? would that be fair to assume? Oh and Im only 34 hardly an old fart :roll: I just happen to think gangsta rap is harmful to kids. If adults want to listen to that shit I could fucking care less. Let me ask you this , Would you let your 13 year old listen to 50, Juvenile, Lil Wayne, M&M, or Snoop Dog ?
"In God We Trust" was NOT on our currency from day one....nor was "under God" in the pledge of allegiance from day one.....etc. all of this occurred in the 1950s. interesting eh?
our country is to be based on religious FREEDOM...and the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
so yes, judeo-christian morals or whatever else.....no place in our governement. IF sonme of our laws follow similar standards, that may well simply be b/c we as a collective society deem them good standards, but in NO way should any one relgiiob hold sway over how laws are made in this country. this is just common sense. i believe many of the northern european countries are fairly secular, and yet as far as standards and morals...pretty high imo. caring for the good of your citizens, preserving their personal freedoms while providing care and safe-guards for their overall well-being...pretty damn fine standards to me.
i sad as much earlier:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
They were so religious they supported the "seperation of church and state"???? Would you support that today if it were only being proposed now? Or would you rally against it and say that the founding fathers never would have supported such a thing?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
actually it first appeared on our currency in 1864 but was not passed into congress until 1956. Interesting eh?
Of course I support the seperation of church and state. No govt should impose religion on one. thats what it means in a nut shell.
:roll: