the most solid proof that obama isn't a real agent of change
DPrival78
CT Posts: 2,263
.. is that he is president of this country.
if he was a real proponent of real change, and was a real threat to the establishment and the status quo, he would never have been promoted in the media the way he was, or he would be dead.
see martin luther king, jfk, or lincoln, to name a few.
obama is just another puppet of the ruling elite. he's got a nice smile, and can speak in complete sentences, but all those characteristics do is make him even more dangerous than his predecessor, because it allows more people to fall for the act.
meet the new boss. same as the old boss.
if he was a real proponent of real change, and was a real threat to the establishment and the status quo, he would never have been promoted in the media the way he was, or he would be dead.
see martin luther king, jfk, or lincoln, to name a few.
obama is just another puppet of the ruling elite. he's got a nice smile, and can speak in complete sentences, but all those characteristics do is make him even more dangerous than his predecessor, because it allows more people to fall for the act.
meet the new boss. same as the old boss.
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
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I've said the exact same thing! All it means is that he'll be better at lying and getting away with it. It means nothing without actions that bring some actual change to this country.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You, too, DPrival!
The question will be whether or not the lefties will blindly support his actions as we saw happen in the first four years from the Bushies OR will they stand behind their beliefs and principles and stop justifying all these things such as our foreign policy in the middle east?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well let's see.. we aren't leaving iraq. we're ramping up the war in afgahnistan. we started bombing pakistan the first week of his administration. we've kept up the harsh rhetoric with iran. add to that the complete looting of the country with these "bailouts".. this dude has been in office for a couple months and he's already as bad as bush. and we've got 3 and a half years left! god, if you exist, help us..
jfk was a media darling too. and the last 2 were killed AFTER they got elected. there's hope for your theory yet! :roll:
Troops are being withdrawn from Iraq. He's already gone to Europe to apologize for our harsh rhetoric. He talks to to Iran, but not as tough as the cowboy. He's closing Gitmo. Reversing the global gag rule. Undoing Dubya's stem cell ban. He's nowhere near as bad as Bush. He's not perfect, and the bailouts are an atrocity, but he's a step in the right direction.
Closing Gitmo.... and sending all those detainees to one of the other detention camps we have scattered all over the globe. You guys act as if he's sending them all home. Life's not getting any better for these guys anytime soon. It's purely a PR move or else he'd be talking about closing all of those other torture filled prisons, as well.
Gitmo is too talked about for him to keep it open and still appear to be not completely full of shit.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well maybe "they" have perfected their game. look at jfk's record.. he was against escalating vietman, wanted nothing to do with cuba, and, maybe most importantly, made a move against the federal reserve. that may have been the last straw, as six months after signing an executive order granting (or re-granting) the power of coining money to the us treasury, he was shot dead.
you mention troops being withdrawn from iraq.. ok, but where are they going? home? no.. they're going to afgahnistan. and we're still leaving at least 50000 troops in iraq.. 50000. that is still an occupation.
the bailouts, as you said, are an atrocity indeed. are we at the point where we condone atrocities now?? this admininstration is not only continuing, but accelerating the bankruptcy of this country, and the people who are going to have to pay the price are you and me, and our kids and grandkids. that's ok with you?
well shit, the gov't says they closed down the prisons. i guess we have to believe them, since they've always been so forthright with us.
I would just like to clarify some facts here...
Regarding John F. Kennedy and Viet Nam...
"Burma, Thailand, India, Japan, the Philippines and obviously Laos and Cambodia are among those whose security would be threatened if the Red Tide of Communism overflowed into Vietnam.".
Sen. John F. Kennedy. "America's Stakes in Vietnam". Speech to the American Friends of Vietnam, June 1956.
Kennedy expanded U.S. involvement in SouthEast Asia. The number of 'advisors' went from 900 under Eisenhower to 16,000 in Kennedy's abbreviated term. Kennedy's 'Best And Brightest' think tanks worked out senarios about fighting and winning a guerilla war using special forces, such as Marine Green Berets. Kennedy was determined to keep the Soviet Union from military victory... and Viet Nam was the proving ground.
On Cuba, remember the 'Bay Of Pigs' where U.S. funded and trainned Cuban exiles attempted to overthrow the Castro regime? That was 1961. And 1962 was the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' ... the closest the world came to a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union.
...
Regarding Iraq...War is easy to start, dificult to end. A military occupation is ever tougher.
Right now, the U.S. is in control of Command and Control, Logistic Support, Medical and Air Support. We either leave and take all of that, leaving Iraq vulnerable to Iranian influence. We leave and what do the Iraq's have regarding military hardware, spare parts, supply lines and forward Combat Surgical Hospitals and med evac? Or do we leave them the tanks, armoured personel carriers, HMMWVs, attack helicopters and fighter bombers?
We need support personel for our combat troops and combat troops to protect the support personel. These are the things that the Bush crew should have considered when going in in 2003. If our airmen have to fly C-17 Cargo planes in and out of Baghdad Airport delivering supplies and picking up the serverly wounded... I... personally, want their safety in the hands of well trainned and well armed military personel... not the proven inept Iraqi military types.
...
Regarding the bailouts... what is the alternative? Let the banks fail? That was a major factor that lead to the Great Depression. And bailing out AIG... the major insurer of global banks.. is necessary because if it fails, banks are not left with any insurance. That would leave you kids and your grandkids a much worse fate than higher tax rates. They will be more concerned about eating, than paying more in taxes. The problem is.. AIG to too great... too big and too powerful to allow to die. There is no option. If there is... I'd like to hear what it is.
...
And please, do not label me a Kool-Aid drinking Obama lover... I am not. I am just trying to clarify things with factual data. Regarding the economic situation, something MUST be done because doing nothing would risk catostrophic results. Allowing unregulated Financial corporation to grow into these TicketMaster like monsterous institutions that become too important to the global economy to fail, didn't start on January 20, 2009. For me.. the jury is still out on Obama. I do not believe that ten weeks is ample time to judge any President... especially one who has inhierited such a major clusterfuck from the previous administration. It's going to take a much longer time to fix all he shit that Bush/Cheney did to us.
Hail, Hail!!!
Hey Sweetie.. Great to hear from you again!!!
Catching any of Ed's gig?
Hail, Hail!!!
hi abook, its been a long time. hope all is well with you.
ok back to this post
sure there is a chance that one or two of these guys do not deserve to be in jail. but do you realize who you are talking about? they slice your childs throat in front of you and make you watch. they are sworn enemies of you. yes, specifically you.
I recall reading an article about him ordering everyone in Gitmo to either be charged or released. If I'm wrong about that, my bad. So then... stem cells? Global gag rule? Any response to undoing some of the moronic Christian bullshit? Or is it easier to just ignore those to prove your point that Obama is an evil warlord plotting world domination?
Do you know anything about JFK? The man was every bit as much of a hawk as any other president. He was talking tougher to Russia, Cuba and Vietnam than Obama is talking to Iran now. I love how Oliver Stone's little fictional "bio" made all you nutters think the man was Ghandi or something. RFK, maybe. But JFK was escalating Vietnam long before LBJ took over and he took a harder line with Cuba than Obama has with N Korea or Iran right now.
Some of those Iraq troops are coming home, some are going to Afghanistan. Is that worse than if they all stayed in Iraq?
No, condoning atrocity is not ok. But what are your options? You think we'd be better off with McCain?
Since most of you brain dead burnouts can only comprehend ideas spoon fed to you by moveon or rock stars, here's a quote for you: "Change don't come at once, it's a wave building before it breaks." So yes, a step back in the right direction is the sign of a good start. I'm not going to start crying about the fact that he hasn't turned the white house into a homeless shelter and sold our entire military to Iran to feed poor people. I know if you do enough acid, that seems like a beautiful, realistic world. But, you know, I guess I stopped before that point.
What the hell is this shit? Facts and reason have no place in here! Don't you realize JFK was The Savior?! Not this upstart pretender Obama *wipes patriotic hippy liberal tear from eye*
Hmmmmm... Obama isn't an agent of real change, according to you, first and foremost, because he is president of this country. Then , you go on to list 3 "real" change agents, 2 of which were, um... PRESIDENTS OF THIS COUNTRY! Absolutely, breathtakingly, absurd. i'm speechless.
I don't know about that... I think the fact that you avoid getting mixed up in this nonsense anymore means you're the one with the common sense
i see. So, we should close Gitmo, and... just send all the prisoners home!? What, give them a suit and a couple hundred bucks and release them? While we're at it why don't we close Angola and send all those guys home also. Fuck, there are all kinds of prisons in the United States filled with some pretty bad guys. In the name of prgress i say we free them all. :roll:
To be fair to her and her legit point, I think all but a fraction of the people in US prisons were arrested based on probable cause, charged with crimes, given a trial, and convicted. The people they rounded up and tossed in Gitmo have often been held for years without even being told why they were taken in the first place. I think it's pretty shitty. Either you've got some reason for grabbing them and should thus charge them based on that and give them some sort of chance to respond, or you shouldn't have picked them up.
Point taken. i still can't quite see just freeing them all. i seriously doubt Gitmo is filled with Cat Stevens and his buddies strumming guitars and singing "Father and Son".
--In order for Obama to have been creditable in his quest for the position of President of the United States he had to DIE.
--In order for Obama's message of Change to be taken as creditable, he had to DIE.
--If Obama's run's for the President was seen as a real threat to the 'establishment' he would have to DIE.
Well guess what, Obama, is President of the United States and whatever changes and success he is having must be making some people in the so called 'establishment' crazy.
So who's this 'establishment'!
--the Teabaggers. I wonder how many parents have explained to their 'children' the alternate
meaning of teabagging before they allowed them to hold up those I SUPPORT TEABAGGING
signs.
--the Republican congress that has all day to twitter on the job (on your tax dollar) because
the only thing they do is vote NO.
--the hate groups and the selective media haters.
--the God fearing people who believe whatever spiteful, evil, hateful wrong they do, it can be
justified because they believe Jesus will forgive their wick, sinful ways.
Are these the people you believe are the real ' establishment', the the same people who were used, then discarded like the joker in a deck of cards as the Republican party fell apart. Only the District of Columbia has the right to call foul when it comes to taxation without representation. Anyone else who has a problem with their taxation needs to tell their congressman or senator to stop twittering and do some real work.
So is it a call for a revolution against Democracy or is it a call for those who have become the extremists to call for the assassination of the President of the United States. - because I'm trying to understand the logic behind the -why- this President of the United States has to DIE if he doesn't fulfill a campaign promise.
Sure, Obama's not perfect. Yes, some decisions and actions have been questionable. And by all means, question them. But it's far too early to be ableto judge just yet. Don't be too quick to curse the action when you don't know the outcome. Very much more of what he has done has been (to me, at least)deeply welcome and very encouraging.
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"?
I don't think so.
Not by a long shot.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
No doubt. But that's why I like Obama's order to either charge or release them. If they've got reason to hold them, they can prove it. The only ones getting out will be those that didn't belong in the first place.
I um, uh, um think that um uh yes um I agree.
Same as the old boss, indeed.
Let's close Gitmo and release them here, and pay them to get set up.
And while we're at it, to equate Guantánamo with Angola is absolute nonsense.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Sure, he is better than Bush but who wouldn't be, really? He's done a few things to pacify the masses and put forth the illusion of change and very little else. All the rest seems pretty 'business as usual' to me. I guess I just expect more from our leaders since we are the ones placing them in their positions. I view it to be very plausable that we could really turn this country around if we'd stop limiting our expectations and settling for this extremely minimal perspective of what is possible.
:roll:
I'm not gonna bother with addressing any of these over-the-top exagerations of what you assume I think. Comment on what I've said and stop sensationalizing this discussion by putting words in my mouth.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde