This thread has gone off topic, the movie just points out that this is a reality, not something fabricated.
Lets back off a little here, there is no reason to turn this into a zoo.
Hasn't gone off topic...its about religious extremists right...then you have to include all religious extremists as they are all related and driven by same fear.
Cruised through central Texas listening to some religious stations...freakin scary.... :evil: :evil:
This thread has gone off topic, the movie just points out that this is a reality, not something fabricated.
Lets back off a little here, there is no reason to turn this into a zoo.
Hasn't gone off topic...its about religious extremists right...then you have to include all religious extremists as they are all related and driven by same fear.
Cruised through central Texas listening to some religious stations...freakin scary.... :evil: :evil:
True, but I don't see any Texas extremist groups killing people in Spain, UK, India, Pakistan, Somalia, Darfur, and all over SW and SE Asia. You can make a comparison for any religion, but none have as much ability, nor have demonstrated that ability with in recent history than violent Islamic Extremist.
I understand that many of you hate your parents for making you go to church as a kid and now hate any form of Religion, but don't compare it, its not the same now.
True, but I don't see any Texas extremist groups killing people in Spain, UK, India, Pakistan, Somalia, Darfur, and all over SW and SE Asia. You can make a comparison for any religion, but none have as much ability, nor have demonstrated that ability with in recent history than violent Islamic Extremist.
I understand that many of you hate your parents for making you go to church as a kid and now hate any form of Religion, but don't compare it, its not the same now.
actually that's not true at all. there are Texas extremists. more dangerous than al qaeda. its called the Bush family, a far more dangerous religious extremist.
God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."
how many died on 9/11?
how many died in Iraq? Afghanistan? Gaza?
What about the Christian fundamentalists who support Israel's actions, which include killing thousands of innocent Palestinians? It's driven by God... can't that be the same logic?
Also, I like how many people ignore the points brought up about Radical Islam and respond with things like "thanks" rather than logical arguments that support your sensationalistic claims.
Have fun spreading hate - it's the only way to stop hate.
Oh, and lest I forget the argument of "when was the last time we heard of an abortion clinic being blown up?"
who the fuck cares? it happened, didn't it?
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway. However, when the US government gives Arabs and Muslims reasons to support the terrorists' war against them, what can we really say? Perhaps if the US government weren't so ridiculous with the way they approached the Middle East with such aggressive and dehumanizing policies, we wouldn't see such complicity among Middle Easterners in regards to retaliation against the occupier. Just a thought - rational people tend to have those.
Oh, and lest I forget the argument of "when was the last time we heard of an abortion clinic being blown up?"
who the fuck cares? it happened, didn't it?
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway. However, when the US government gives Arabs and Muslims reasons to support the terrorists' war against them, what can we really say? Perhaps if the US government weren't so ridiculous with the way they approached the Middle East with such aggressive and dehumanizing policies, we wouldn't see such complicity among Middle Easterners in regards to retaliation against the occupier. Just a thought - rational people tend to have those.
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I agree. the number one cause of terrorism in the world is US foreign policy.
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
You know the same group of people you defend would have no problem cutting your head off and posting it on the internet just because you're American and Non-Muslim?
Right on? sure Commy what ever you say ......
I don't need to add anything .if you dumb fucks dont get it by now you never will. Maybe we'll get attacked again and you loose a loved one and maybe then you'll get it but I hope it doesn't come to that.
I see that you "get it", meaning you appear to have the same mindset of the extremists you moan about...wishing ill will on others just so you can make a point...
sadly, what you don't get is that you're as bad as those you are so fearful of...
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
Your entire argument is based on illegitimate assumptions and is invalid.
Right on? sure Commy what ever you say ......
I don't need to add anything .if you dumb fucks dont get it by now you never will. Maybe we'll get attacked again and you loose a loved one and maybe then you'll get it but I hope it doesn't come to that.
I see that you "get it", meaning you appear to have the same mindset of the extremists you moan about...wishing ill will on others just so you can make a point...
sadly, what you don't get is that you're as bad as those you are so fearful of...
there you go again putting words in my mouth, I never wished any ill will on anybody
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
Your entire argument is based on illegitimate assumptions and is invalid.
Wow, well I guess this thread is over with huh?
I didn't know we can only post things here unless it meets the approval of Outlaw?
Next time I'll check with you before I post, because you obviously know what you're talking about.
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway.
No doubt the world wouldn't be a rosy place without religion but the simplicity of swaying the masses to go with those that use it as a means of control make it the most affective way to to reach their goal..and thus if we take away the illusion of this almighty god...improvement.
As an example, Commy pointed out Bush was a terrorist from Texas...well those stations in Central Texas pushed the idea that Bush was a savior and did the right things and thus the population supported this guy. The commoners supported the extremists...the "minority group".
If no one has anything constructive to say about the topic, don't post.
keep an open mind
are you saying we should check with you before posting...?
seriously, you posted a link to a 31 minute video that can be seen by some as enlightening and by others as propaganda....IMO, it was 30 minutes 30 seconds of fear...only 30 seconds were devoted to a solution...even then the solution was vague...I'll give you this, there are bad people who want to do bad things...some in the name of religion, some in the name of hate, some because the are just plain nuts...I see this as a fact of life...
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
actually, it makes more sense to go after the United States. For a couple of reasons. First of all, for those of us who live here, it is something we can change-theoretically through voting, and if that fails it is our responsibility to rise up and overthrow this government. as is written in the constitution. but the reason I focus on the US is that it is something I can do something about. it makes much more sense to focus on what we can change. what can I personally do about Islamic fundamentalism?
The reason anyone even knows about Darfur is because someone cares about those people. in the 70's it was east timor-which took local, grassroots movements that started with a few individuals and eventually led to the US government ending Indonesia's slaughter. that started from a few individuals.
you have to start somewhere. before Martin Luther King was even able to lead the non-violent civil rights movement it took 1 hundred years of people sitting around "bitching" about the status quo-as you put it. people need to know what's wrong before it can be fixed. that's where reasoned debate comes in.
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
Your entire argument is based on illegitimate assumptions and is invalid.
Wow, well I guess this thread is over with huh?
I didn't know we can only post things here unless it meets the approval of Outlaw?
Next time I'll check with you before I post, because you obviously know what you're talking about.
Thanks for correcting me.
Actually, he was right on that one. Your entire post was based upon completely arbitrary and unfounded supposition, thus your conclusions have no logical merit.
I strongly disagree. There are some who have a severely distorted views but you dont see them decapitating people and blowing up innocent people
I guess you've never heard of a Christian bombing an Abortion clinic... That would be blowing up innocent people.... Many did this in the name of god...[/quote]
when was the last time you heard of an abortion clinic being blown up? it's been a while[/quote]
It's been a while, but it goes to show radical christianity has certainly existed in my lifetime (and I'm 18). Radical forms of ALL religion need to be gotten rid of.
Actually, he was right on that one. Your entire post was based upon completely arbitrary and unfounded supposition, thus your conclusions have no logical merit.
I guess that depends on who you're asking....it goes both ways.
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
Your entire argument is based on illegitimate assumptions and is invalid.
Wow, well I guess this thread is over with huh?
I didn't know we can only post things here unless it meets the approval of Outlaw?
Next time I'll check with you before I post, because you obviously know what you're talking about.
Thanks for correcting me.
No, feel free to post when you want. The next time you make an assumption about me, however, I'd prefer to check with me first since it's most likely untrue/unfounded and a distraction from a real issue.
I don't care what religion it is...the sole problem is the violent nature of it, killing civilians. They want to fight it out, fight the military.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
actually, it makes more sense to go after the United States. For a couple of reasons. First of all, for those of us who live here, it is something we can change-theoretically through voting, and if that fails it is our responsibility to rise up and overthrow this government. as is written in the constitution. but the reason I focus on the US is that it is something I can do something about. it makes much more sense to focus on what we can change. what can I personally do about Islamic fundamentalism?
The reason anyone even knows about Darfur is because someone cares about those people. in the 70's it was east timor-which took local, grassroots movements that started with a few individuals and eventually led to the US government ending Indonesia's slaughter. that started from a few individuals.
you have to start somewhere. before Martin Luther King was even able to lead the non-violent civil rights movement it took 1 hundred years of people sitting around "bitching" about the status quo-as you put it. people need to know what's wrong before it can be fixed. that's where reasoned debate comes in.
People have the power.
the end. back to bashing arabs.
I don't think there is a lot the average person in America can do to stop it, but all is being proposed here is not to loose track of it. Its still a serious issue that has taken a back seat in the last couple of years, and its only getting worse.
And when I mean keep an open mind, I mean keep an open mind that there could be the possibility that this won't go away, even if we reverse our foreign policies and dissolve Israel.
People have lost focus on what got us here, 8 years later and most people have already forgotten whats at stake. This isn't a lie our government came up with to scare us, its a reality.
I agree with you, people do have the power, and if people decide to tune out and ignore important issues that face us, we will repeat the past all over again.
With things hopefully rapping up in Iraq, a lot of talk has turned to Afghanistan, and now Pakistan. Something that needed our attention from day one, but over the recent years has taken a back seat. Keep this issue on the forefront of people's minds is important, it informs them as to why we are there, and in turn will focus our effort to deal with the issue.
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway.
No doubt the world wouldn't be a rosy place without religion but the simplicity of swaying the masses to go with those that use it as a means of control make it the most affective way to to reach their goal..and thus if we take away the illusion of this almighty god...improvement.
As an example, Commy pointed out Bush was a terrorist from Texas...well those stations in Central Texas pushed the idea that Bush was a savior and did the right things and thus the population supported this guy. The commoners supported the extremists...the "minority group".
What needs to be understood, in my opinion, is this:
Islamic fundamentalism is not the REASON for violence. It's a use. In other words, these people have a reason for the use of Islamic fundamentalism. Often, it's the same way for many other cases. People see a problem with a situation, not purely because of religion, but because they actually see something wrong. Whether it's occupation, oppression, killing, discrimination, or even abortion, people can easily see things wrong with all of those without having to see it through a fundamentalists' eyes. This is what creates fundamentalism. Even if religion weren't around, humans would find something to turn to. I'm not very articulate right now because I haven't had any sleep for the past two days, so I hope you understood what I'm trying to say.
No, feel free to post when you want. The next time you make an assumption about me, however, I'd prefer to check with me first since it's most likely untrue/unfounded and a distraction from a real issue.
Actually, he was right on that one. Your entire post was based upon completely arbitrary and unfounded supposition, thus your conclusions have no logical merit.
I guess that depends on who you're asking....it goes both ways.
Not really. There is absolutely no factual basis for:
"none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye."
- If that were true, these people would be encouraging more terrorist attacks, not discussing their views on how best to reduce them... just because you disagree with them does not mean they hate America
"If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here."
- You haven't been reading then. It's often on here. There's just not much to discuss because on these issues we all agree what the appropriate response is.
"Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it?"
- I get the impression many on here do as much as they can. Of course, it all starts with convincing people our current approach isn't working.
You have no factual basis for any of those statements, they are just your efforts to demonize everyone that disagrees with you by making sweeping and unfounded generalizations about their motives. It's a weak and lazy debate tactic and does nothing to support your points.
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway.
No doubt the world wouldn't be a rosy place without religion but the simplicity of swaying the masses to go with those that use it as a means of control make it the most affective way to to reach their goal..and thus if we take away the illusion of this almighty god...improvement.
As an example, Commy pointed out Bush was a terrorist from Texas...well those stations in Central Texas pushed the idea that Bush was a savior and did the right things and thus the population supported this guy. The commoners supported the extremists...the "minority group".
What needs to be understood, in my opinion, is this:
Islamic fundamentalism is not the REASON for violence. It's a use. In other words, these people have a reason for the use of Islamic fundamentalism. Often, it's the same way for many other cases. People see a problem with a situation, not purely because of religion, but because they actually see something wrong. Whether it's occupation, oppression, killing, discrimination, or even abortion, people can easily see things wrong with all of those without having to see it through a fundamentalists' eyes. This is what creates fundamentalism. Even if religion weren't around, humans would find something to turn to. I'm not very articulate right now because I haven't had any sleep for the past two days, so I hope you understood what I'm trying to say.
I see your point, but their view of how the world works violates basic human rights. They need to come to the 21 century, there is no reason why someone can't practice their religion with out oppressing people and using violence.
We no longer have an oppressive Christian Puritan Government here in the US. Some may say different, but we are free to do what we want here. They are no different then the Puritans of early America or the Catholic Church in Europe during its hay day, spreading religion and controlling people by violence and intimidation, but we are in 2009, there is no reason why we should let it go on.
Actually, he was right on that one. Your entire post was based upon completely arbitrary and unfounded supposition, thus your conclusions have no logical merit.
I guess that depends on who you're asking....it goes both ways.
Not really. There is absolutely no factual basis for:
"none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye."
- If that were true, these people would be encouraging more terrorist attacks, not discussing their views on how best to reduce them... just because you disagree with them does not mean they hate America
"If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here."
- You haven't been reading then. It's often on here. There's just not much to discuss because on these issues we all agree what the appropriate response is.
"Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it?"
- I get the impression many on here do as much as they can. Of course, it all starts with convincing people our current approach isn't working.
You have no factual basis for any of those statements, they are just your efforts to demonize everyone that disagrees with you by making sweeping and unfounded generalizations about their motives. It's a weak and lazy debate tactic and does nothing to support your points.
I don't think there is a lot the average person in America can do to stop it, but all is being proposed here is not to loose track of it. Its still a serious issue that has taken a back seat in the last couple of years, and its only getting worse.
And when I mean keep an open mind, I mean keep an open mind that there could be the possibility that this won't go away, even if we reverse our foreign policies and dissolve Israel.
People have lost focus on what got us here, 8 years later and most people have already forgotten whats at stake. This isn't a lie our government came up with to scare us, its a reality.
I agree with you, people do have the power, and if people decide to tune out and ignore important issues that face us, we will repeat the past all over again.
You're right... we CANNOT tune out and forget the past. That is why people point out that this did NOT begin 8 years ago... it began 30-40 years ago when we used fundamentalist Islam as a weapon against the Soviets and then hung them out to dry. They remember that, we try to forget it ever happened. No, maybe it won't go away if Israel is dissolved tomorrow. But it will only get worse if we continue to pretend we are utterly blameless here and make no effort whatsoever to right the past wrongs we have done.
Compare it to the civil rights movement. For years we turned a blind eye to racism, pretending that since slavery ended, all was well. Not until 100 years later and the civil rights movement of the 1960's did we actually acknowledge the wrongs done and try to address them. Today we see the fruits of that work in a nation that has made enormous progress towards racial harmony. We need this same approach to the Middle East and Islam, but it starts by acknowledging that our actions have not always been fair and that we need to change that.
Comments
But arent we dealing with animals?
Cruised through central Texas listening to some religious stations...freakin scary.... :evil: :evil:
Yep the human animal.....so simple.
True, but I don't see any Texas extremist groups killing people in Spain, UK, India, Pakistan, Somalia, Darfur, and all over SW and SE Asia. You can make a comparison for any religion, but none have as much ability, nor have demonstrated that ability with in recent history than violent Islamic Extremist.
I understand that many of you hate your parents for making you go to church as a kid and now hate any form of Religion, but don't compare it, its not the same now.
actually that's not true at all. there are Texas extremists. more dangerous than al qaeda. its called the Bush family, a far more dangerous religious extremist.
God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."
how many died on 9/11?
how many died in Iraq? Afghanistan? Gaza?
Also, I like how many people ignore the points brought up about Radical Islam and respond with things like "thanks" rather than logical arguments that support your sensationalistic claims.
Have fun spreading hate - it's the only way to stop hate.
who the fuck cares? it happened, didn't it?
and no, religion is NOT solely the problem. People who simply make the argument that without religion, we'd be a peaceful people have no substance to support such an assertion. By facts, it has been a minority group, usually, who interprets or sees religion as something that supports such actions, but it's never really backed up with anything anyway. However, when the US government gives Arabs and Muslims reasons to support the terrorists' war against them, what can we really say? Perhaps if the US government weren't so ridiculous with the way they approached the Middle East with such aggressive and dehumanizing policies, we wouldn't see such complicity among Middle Easterners in regards to retaliation against the occupier. Just a thought - rational people tend to have those.
I agree. the number one cause of terrorism in the world is US foreign policy.
Commy...your pushing it with that comparison...thats a reach.
Lets be honest here, none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye. If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here. Why? Because Israel and the US isn't openly involved in those areas for you to bitch about. You just use it as weak point to paint the US as an evil government hell bent on destroying innocent lives.
Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it? I couldn't live in a country that I thought was inherently evil.
I have a hard time seeing eye to eye here.
I see that you "get it", meaning you appear to have the same mindset of the extremists you moan about...wishing ill will on others just so you can make a point...
sadly, what you don't get is that you're as bad as those you are so fearful of...
there you go again putting words in my mouth, I never wished any ill will on anybody
Wow, well I guess this thread is over with huh?
I didn't know we can only post things here unless it meets the approval of Outlaw?
Next time I'll check with you before I post, because you obviously know what you're talking about.
Thanks for correcting me.
If no one has anything constructive to say about the topic, don't post.
keep an open mind
No doubt the world wouldn't be a rosy place without religion but the simplicity of swaying the masses to go with those that use it as a means of control make it the most affective way to to reach their goal..and thus if we take away the illusion of this almighty god...improvement.
As an example, Commy pointed out Bush was a terrorist from Texas...well those stations in Central Texas pushed the idea that Bush was a savior and did the right things and thus the population supported this guy. The commoners supported the extremists...the "minority group".
then this...
are you saying we should check with you before posting...?
seriously, you posted a link to a 31 minute video that can be seen by some as enlightening and by others as propaganda....IMO, it was 30 minutes 30 seconds of fear...only 30 seconds were devoted to a solution...even then the solution was vague...I'll give you this, there are bad people who want to do bad things...some in the name of religion, some in the name of hate, some because the are just plain nuts...I see this as a fact of life...
it's the way she goes...
actually, it makes more sense to go after the United States. For a couple of reasons. First of all, for those of us who live here, it is something we can change-theoretically through voting, and if that fails it is our responsibility to rise up and overthrow this government. as is written in the constitution. but the reason I focus on the US is that it is something I can do something about. it makes much more sense to focus on what we can change. what can I personally do about Islamic fundamentalism?
The reason anyone even knows about Darfur is because someone cares about those people. in the 70's it was east timor-which took local, grassroots movements that started with a few individuals and eventually led to the US government ending Indonesia's slaughter. that started from a few individuals.
you have to start somewhere. before Martin Luther King was even able to lead the non-violent civil rights movement it took 1 hundred years of people sitting around "bitching" about the status quo-as you put it. people need to know what's wrong before it can be fixed. that's where reasoned debate comes in.
People have the power.
the end. back to bashing arabs.
when was the last time you heard of an abortion clinic being blown up? it's been a while[/quote]
It's been a while, but it goes to show radical christianity has certainly existed in my lifetime (and I'm 18). Radical forms of ALL religion need to be gotten rid of.
I guess that depends on who you're asking....it goes both ways.
I don't think there is a lot the average person in America can do to stop it, but all is being proposed here is not to loose track of it. Its still a serious issue that has taken a back seat in the last couple of years, and its only getting worse.
And when I mean keep an open mind, I mean keep an open mind that there could be the possibility that this won't go away, even if we reverse our foreign policies and dissolve Israel.
People have lost focus on what got us here, 8 years later and most people have already forgotten whats at stake. This isn't a lie our government came up with to scare us, its a reality.
I agree with you, people do have the power, and if people decide to tune out and ignore important issues that face us, we will repeat the past all over again.
With things hopefully rapping up in Iraq, a lot of talk has turned to Afghanistan, and now Pakistan. Something that needed our attention from day one, but over the recent years has taken a back seat. Keep this issue on the forefront of people's minds is important, it informs them as to why we are there, and in turn will focus our effort to deal with the issue.
Arabs are not the issue
Islamic fundamentalism is not the REASON for violence. It's a use. In other words, these people have a reason for the use of Islamic fundamentalism. Often, it's the same way for many other cases. People see a problem with a situation, not purely because of religion, but because they actually see something wrong. Whether it's occupation, oppression, killing, discrimination, or even abortion, people can easily see things wrong with all of those without having to see it through a fundamentalists' eyes. This is what creates fundamentalism. Even if religion weren't around, humans would find something to turn to. I'm not very articulate right now because I haven't had any sleep for the past two days, so I hope you understood what I'm trying to say.
Will do
Not really. There is absolutely no factual basis for:
"none of you give a fuck about the people in Palestine or Iraq, you use it as a jabbing point to poke the US in the eye."
- If that were true, these people would be encouraging more terrorist attacks, not discussing their views on how best to reduce them... just because you disagree with them does not mean they hate America
"If you really cared about human suffering, you would point out about all the needless waste of life all over the world. I never here any one talk about Chechnya, or Darfur, or Somalia here."
- You haven't been reading then. It's often on here. There's just not much to discuss because on these issues we all agree what the appropriate response is.
"Mean while, you live in the same country that apprently does all these atrocities but you do nothing but bitch, or to stop it?"
- I get the impression many on here do as much as they can. Of course, it all starts with convincing people our current approach isn't working.
You have no factual basis for any of those statements, they are just your efforts to demonize everyone that disagrees with you by making sweeping and unfounded generalizations about their motives. It's a weak and lazy debate tactic and does nothing to support your points.
I see your point, but their view of how the world works violates basic human rights. They need to come to the 21 century, there is no reason why someone can't practice their religion with out oppressing people and using violence.
We no longer have an oppressive Christian Puritan Government here in the US. Some may say different, but we are free to do what we want here. They are no different then the Puritans of early America or the Catholic Church in Europe during its hay day, spreading religion and controlling people by violence and intimidation, but we are in 2009, there is no reason why we should let it go on.
Your right, it was just my opinion,
I'm really sorry, please forgive me.
You're right... we CANNOT tune out and forget the past. That is why people point out that this did NOT begin 8 years ago... it began 30-40 years ago when we used fundamentalist Islam as a weapon against the Soviets and then hung them out to dry. They remember that, we try to forget it ever happened. No, maybe it won't go away if Israel is dissolved tomorrow. But it will only get worse if we continue to pretend we are utterly blameless here and make no effort whatsoever to right the past wrongs we have done.
Compare it to the civil rights movement. For years we turned a blind eye to racism, pretending that since slavery ended, all was well. Not until 100 years later and the civil rights movement of the 1960's did we actually acknowledge the wrongs done and try to address them. Today we see the fruits of that work in a nation that has made enormous progress towards racial harmony. We need this same approach to the Middle East and Islam, but it starts by acknowledging that our actions have not always been fair and that we need to change that.