Wine Connoisseurs - give me your secrets

CJMST3K

I like wine, but know nothing about what makes a good one, or a bad one. If you know what you're talking about with wine, please share with us your expertise... just realizing recently that 3 buck chuck (Charles Shaw) his horrible. I've been leaning towards merlot and shiraz, but that's about all I can think of.

...any advice on what's good, and price ranges?

Thanks!

sweet adeline

pinot noir is a good red, a good bottle will probably cost ~$20. everyone kind of got into pinot's because of that movie "sideways", but if you want a good alternative, i'd try a good zinfandel (red, not white like the boxes of franzia)

just start trying different kinds, everyone's palate is a little different. not sure where you live but if there are any wineries or tasting rooms near you, go check them out and see what you like. plus, you get to get drunk in the process.

milarso

Boone's Farm- $3.19

jimed14

I am not a connoisseur, but, I've been tasting more times than I can count since I moved out here.

First thing to note, wine critics are for wine snobs. Don't pay attention to them.

You like what you like, and the only way you're going to find out what you like is to get out there and taste.

I'd narrow down what kind of wines you like first ... red or white, heavy or light ... try several labels of each type ... trying one cab or one shiraz and thinking you don't like all cabs or all shirazes doesn't work. Grapes vary, age makes a difference, some vineyads age in oak, some age in metal ... you can never tell from vineyard to vineyard, year to year.

If you really want to get into it ... take notes.

You can start at your local stores ... I've found wines I like for as little as $10-12 ... you can get a good variety ranging from $15 - 30 at your local stores to start the process of finding what varietals you like.

Seriously, the best way to learn is to head out to wine country and talk with the folks ... and taste for yourself!

Heineken Helen

jimed14 wrote:

I am not a connoisseur, but, I've been tasting more times than I can count since I moved out here.

First thing to note, wine critics are for wine snobs. Don't pay attention to them.

You like what you like, and the only way you're going to find out what you like is to get out there and taste.

I'd narrow down what kind of wines you like first ... red or white, heavy or light ... try several labels of each type ... trying one cab or one shiraz and thinking you don't like all cabs or all shirazes doesn't work. Grapes vary, age makes a difference, some vineyads age in oak, some age in metal ... you can never tell from vineyard to vineyard, year to year.

If you really want to get into it ... take notes.

You can start at your local stores ... I've found wines I like for as little as $10-12 ... you can get a good variety ranging from $15 - 30 at your local stores to start the process of finding what varietals you like.

Seriously, the best way to learn is to head out to wine country and talk with the folks ... and taste for yourself!

agreed... i've tried some of the 'best' i.e. most expensive kinds of wine and they do nothing for me :oops: I think it just depends on what you like. e.g. I CANNOT go wrong with a South African white... I don't like the aussies, but i'll still drink em... i dunno why or what the fuck it's got to do with the grape or whatever... I just know that any SA white i've had, I've liked. Any other nationality is hit and miss for me... although I WAS getting into the whole snobbery of it at one time, then I realised I couldn't really give a fuck.

The Juggler

jimed14 wrote:

I am not a connoisseur, but, I've been tasting more times than I can count since I moved out here.

First thing to note, wine critics are for wine snobs. Don't pay attention to them.

You like what you like, and the only way you're going to find out what you like is to get out there and taste.

I'd narrow down what kind of wines you like first ... red or white, heavy or light ... try several labels of each type ... trying one cab or one shiraz and thinking you don't like all cabs or all shirazes doesn't work. Grapes vary, age makes a difference, some vineyads age in oak, some age in metal ... you can never tell from vineyard to vineyard, year to year.

If you really want to get into it ... take notes.

You can start at your local stores ... I've found wines I like for as little as $10-12 ... you can get a good variety ranging from $15 - 30 at your local stores to start the process of finding what varietals you like.

Seriously, the best way to learn is to head out to wine country and talk with the folks ... and taste for yourself!

i think you know more than you think man!

me, i'm a merlot guy myself. but i have never been wine tasting. we always talk about doing that but never have... :evil:

Heineken Helen

The Jeagler wrote:

i think you know more than you think man!

me, i'm a merlot guy myself. but i have never been wine tasting. we always talk about doing that but never have... :evil:

I was wine tasting once in south africa :oops: (note, NOT the link between why i mainly like south african whites... that was before i even WANTED to go to the country)

But that was stupid... there was a really big table FULL of open bottles of wine... and they let loose a load of Irish people on it :shock:

:shock: spit??? What??? Why??????????????????????????????????? You must be fucking joking!

The Juggler

Heineken Helen wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

i think you know more than you think man!

me, i'm a merlot guy myself. but i have never been wine tasting. we always talk about doing that but never have... :evil:

I was wine tasting once in south africa :oops: (note, NOT the link between why i mainly like south african whites... that was before i even WANTED to go to the country)

But that was stupid... there was a really big table FULL of open bottles of wine... and they let loose a load of Irish people on it :shock:

:shock: spit??? What??? Why??????????????????????????????????? You must be fucking joking!

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

vduboise

you are suppose to spit it out- eat some bread or neutral crackers and then try some more.

If you really want to know about wines- most culinary schools have wine classes for recreational purposes. I did one years ago when I left school. It was great and informative

Heineken Helen

The Jeagler wrote:

Heineken Helen wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

i think you know more than you think man!

me, i'm a merlot guy myself. but i have never been wine tasting. we always talk about doing that but never have... :evil:

I was wine tasting once in south africa :oops: (note, NOT the link between why i mainly like south african whites... that was before i even WANTED to go to the country)

But that was stupid... there was a really big table FULL of open bottles of wine... and they let loose a load of Irish people on it :shock:

:shock: spit??? What??? Why??????????????????????????????????? You must be fucking joking!

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

You're ALLOWED.. but not supposed to apparently... nobody fucking told the group of thirsty irish people on holiday though :oops:

jimed14

The Jeagler wrote:

Heineken Helen wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

i think you know more than you think man!

me, i'm a merlot guy myself. but i have never been wine tasting. we always talk about doing that but never have... :evil:

I was wine tasting once in south africa :oops: (note, NOT the link between why i mainly like south african whites... that was before i even WANTED to go to the country)

But that was stupid... there was a really big table FULL of open bottles of wine... and they let loose a load of Irish people on it :shock:

:shock: spit??? What??? Why??????????????????????????????????? You must be fucking joking!

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

fuck that, swallow the wine ... have fun.

a few tips I have for wine tasting. Take them, or leave them.

1) don't overdo it ... and I don't mean "don't get drunk" (although, that's a good idea as well) ... I mean, after a while, you (and your tongue) are just so numb to all the different wines you've tried ... it's impossible to tell what you like anymore. I usually go to no more than 4 vineyards in one trip (5 max), and a trip will last about 6 hours. (I usually do one or two, eat lunch, then, finish the rest)

2) Did you try something you don't like? Pour it out! Don't feel pressured to drink everything that's put in front of you. Again, save room (and your taste buds) to find what you do like.

3) If you KNOW you don't like something, DON'T try it. Don't be pressured into trying something you know you don't like ... save the room for something else. (If you're still forming opinions, then I suggest trying it)

4) See something in the vineyard's collection that you really might like that isn't being tasted that day? ASK TO TRY IT. More often than not, they probably have a bottle open and they'll let you have a taste, especially if you've said no to something else like I mentioned in #3 (but don't be pushy about it). I am not fond of Merlot (and it's NOT because of Sideways) ... but, if I see they have a zin, but it's not on the tasting menu, I'll try and see if they'll let me have some becuase I love the Zin. Also, I *always* ask to try the ports ... and because ports and desert wines are big ticket items, I get them to pour it at least 80% of the time, remember, they are trying to sell you wine, so, it's in their best interest to let you try what you like .. (oh, I'm a port/desert wine whore btw).

5) Take your time ... some people do spit out their wines, that's the 'proper' way of tasting ... but, I'm not one of them. But, beacuse I'm actually drinking, I take my time. Poke around the tasting room, chat with the pourer (if it's not busy), check out the scenery (Napa/Sonoma has some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever laid eyes on)

6) Make friends with the pourer ... man, a wine tasting day is SO much better when you have people with great personalities and a friendly dispositions to chat with.

hmm, did I miss anything?

decides2dream

The Jeagler wrote:

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

of course you're 'allowed'...however, to truly do a real in depth wine-tasting - supposedly, any way - one spits the wine out b/c you don't want to get drunk, b/c with impaired abilty, how can you truly compare wines? and also you spit it out, drink water and/or eat crackers, to clean your palate between tastings., obviously, all of this is if you are truly *serious* about tasting/comparing.

here on long island, it's a lot more laid back and casual. no one spits out the wine. every drinks up, but sure the water between tasting IS recommended...and you can order cheese/crackers/fruit to go with your tastings as well. hubby and i did a tasting 2 years ago, had a blast...and yes, really did help us see some flavors/varietals we like/dislike...and sure, overall, not a big fan of long island wines. :oops: i am all about the reds, really no palate at all for white - and i have tried! and over the course of trial and error, i most definitely favor pinot noirs above all else...altho a good cab or a nice shiraz is also welcome...but for my tastes...nothing compares to pinot. also like a good chianti. i seem to favor a lot of the cali pinots.....but there IS a particular aussie shiraz that me and the hubby both love.....really bold and fruity!

_Crazy_Mary_

Helen,
Have you ever had the Sincerely sauvignon blanc from South Africa? I was on a kick this summer where that was almost all I drank. It is so unlike any California SB and I really liked it. But I ended up drinking too much of it and stopped enjoying it. It just became too funky for me. Plus, with the change of season I've mostly been drinking red wine...


As far as what is a good wine to drink- It's like everyone else has said; we each have our own palate. Our own likes and dislikes.... I personally prefer red rhone wines; syrah, mouvedre & grenache.

jimed14

decides2dream wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

of course you're 'allowed'...however, to truly do a real in depth wine-tasting - supposedly, any way - one spits the wine out b/c you don't want to get drunk, b/c with impaired abilty, how can you truly compare wines? and also you spit it out, drink water and/or eat crackers, to clean your palate between tastings., obviously, all of this is if you are truly *serious* about tasting/comparing.

here on long island, it's a lot more laid back and casual. no one spits out the wine. every drinks up, but sure the water between tasting IS recommended...and you can order cheese/crackers/fruit to go with your tastings as well. hubby and i did a tasting 2 years ago, had a blast...and yes, really did help us see some flavors/varietals we like/dislike...and sure, overall, not a big fan of long island wines. :oops: i am all about the reds, really no palate at all for white - and i have tried! and over the course of trial and error, i most definitely favor pinot noirs above all else...altho a good cab or a nice shiraz is also welcome...but for my tastes...nothing compares to pinot. also like a good chianti. i seem to favor a lot of the cali pinots.....but there IS a particular aussie shiraz that me and the hubby both love.....really bold and fruity!

I dated a girl from Elmira, NY ... we went wine tasting in the Finger Lakes region ... there were actually a few decent vineyards up there.

Good call on the water! something I didn't mention.

(not being a dick, just being an educator here. ... "Aussie shiraz" is redundant ... if it's called Shiraz, it's Australian by nature, if it's made here in the US, it's Syrah. You can actually get Rosemont Shiraz in your local gorcery store for around $10-15, and honestly, I like it)

decides2dream

jimed14 wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

so you're not allowed to swallow the wine during the wine tasting?

of course you're 'allowed'...however, to truly do a real in depth wine-tasting - supposedly, any way - one spits the wine out b/c you don't want to get drunk, b/c with impaired abilty, how can you truly compare wines? and also you spit it out, drink water and/or eat crackers, to clean your palate between tastings., obviously, all of this is if you are truly *serious* about tasting/comparing.

here on long island, it's a lot more laid back and casual. no one spits out the wine. every drinks up, but sure the water between tasting IS recommended...and you can order cheese/crackers/fruit to go with your tastings as well. hubby and i did a tasting 2 years ago, had a blast...and yes, really did help us see some flavors/varietals we like/dislike...and sure, overall, not a big fan of long island wines. :oops: i am all about the reds, really no palate at all for white - and i have tried! and over the course of trial and error, i most definitely favor pinot noirs above all else...altho a good cab or a nice shiraz is also welcome...but for my tastes...nothing compares to pinot. also like a good chianti. i seem to favor a lot of the cali pinots.....but there IS a particular aussie shiraz that me and the hubby both love.....really bold and fruity!

I dated a girl from Elmira, NY ... we went wine tasting in the Finger Lakes region ... there were actually a few decent vineyards up there.

Good call on the water! something I didn't mention.

(not being a dick, just being an educator here. ... "Aussie shiraz" is redundant ... if it's called Shiraz, it's Australian by nature, if it's made here in the US, it's Syrah. You can actually get Rosemont Shiraz in your local gorcery store for around $10-15, and honestly, I like it)

long island isn't the finger lakes...and i'll agree...i liked a couple wines we bought up there. we didn't go do a tasting, just went and bought a few bottles while on a trip up there. amongst some of the long island wines we tried there was one that nice in comparison to the rest...but when i compare it to wines from other regions, long island wines are just too earthy for my tastes.


hmmm...i thought i've bought a shiraz from another country besides oz...interesting. i did know the shiraz/syrah thing, basically the same, just did not know 'shiraz' was soley used for aussie wine only. and no, i don't see it as dickish to point out ...information is always a good thing. and btw - i've had the rosemont...and yea, not a big fan at all. my fave shiraz is "archetype"...bold and full, quite fruity, but a lot more smooth than a lot of the aussies. opening up more to chianti and cabs will always be acceptible.....but pinot is just where it's at for me. and as i said, i can pretty much enjoy just about any cali pinot...tho really like coppolla's director's cut and also the diamond label...and for a truly inexpesive pinot, mirrasou. i try to avoid very expensive wines...afraid i might like them too much.


btw -long island does have decent vineyards, in particular, pindar...it's just overall, not my taste is all.
oh, and we can't get wine in our local grocers...only beer and wine coolers. wine and alcohol, liquor stores only in NY....well at least on long island, anyway.

jimed14

Chianti ... there's something I've never "tasted" ... and I'm Italian! I usually get the house chianti when I'm at a restaurant ... I usually like the Rufina Chianti the most.

figured I'd post what I'm a fan of ...

Reds -
Zinfindel ... nothing beats a thick beefy Zin with a big steak, I like it smoky ... Ridge and Ledson are two of my favorites.
Pinot ... the anti-zin for me ... meaning, I can have it without a meal, when I want a nice light and fruity red, this is where I turn
Carmenere ... someone mentioned South American wines, this is usually from Chile, I think. Just got turned onto this recently ... it can be smoky, probably why I like it.

Blend -
Murietta's Well is located in Livermore, CA (up and coming wine region) has a great blend called Zarzuela, it's mostly Touriga and Tempranillo

White -
Souv Blanc - afore mentioned Ledson makes one that tastes like grapefruit, great wine in the summer
Guwertztraminer - light, sweet ... goes great with spicy thai food ... tougher to find so, I could settle for a Reisling.
Chardonnay - I like them aged in oak and super buttery. There are far more Chards I don't like than I like, but the ones I like, I love.


Desert -
Ports ... come in many forms ... 20 year tawny is the way I like to go.
Tokaji ... Hungarian ... dark yellow in color ... sweet, thick, syrupy. delicious.
Botrytis Semillon - (I think it's the same as Sauternes) ... Botrytis = rotted ... semillon grapes left on the vine far past ripeness ... makes it super sweet.

_Crazy_Mary_

well, ok, if we're name-dropping:
Reds: I like Rombauer and Ridge Zinfandel. Holly's Hill Grenache, Blue Rock Syrah, Lavendar Ridge Mouvedre, Sheldon Pinot Noir, Frick Cinsaut

Whites:
It's hard for me to think of a white I like but the Albarino by Bonny Doon is dry and crisp and perfect on a hot summer day.
Sparkling wine goes with anything and I like Argyle Brut and Brundlmayer Brut


Dessert:
Infantado Portugal 14 year old port... yummmmy
Vouvray Deux, Heidi Schrock

Heineken Helen

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

Helen,
Have you ever had the Sincerely sauvignon blanc from South Africa? I was on a kick this summer where that was almost all I drank. It is so unlike any California SB and I really liked it. But I ended up drinking too much of it and stopped enjoying it. It just became too funky for me. Plus, with the change of season I've mostly been drinking red wine...


As far as what is a good wine to drink- It's like everyone else has said; we each have our own palate. Our own likes and dislikes.... I personally prefer red rhone wines; syrah, mouvedre & grenache.

:shock: no I haven't... but will keep an eye out for it. My favourite is usually Arniston Bay... i've known a few people who generally don't drink whites to really really like that one.

Heineken Helen

oh also I really really like chablis... it's usually a bit more expensive though so I don't get it too often but it's yum

Get_Right

been getting into wine more and more recently
I generally like california cabernets and italian san genovese wines
recently I have been enjoying
quail ridge and leaping lizard cabs, along with an italian wine called bivio
all around $20 at my overpriced wine shop which means you should be able to find them for $15 at a discount seller

also been enjoying french pinot
Bouchard Aine & Fils Bourgogne Pinot Noir
Les Champans Bourgogne Pinot Noir

for me its trial and error

jamie uk

I'm no expert...far from it, but I know what I like.
A fella once told me to stick to the 'traditional' countries i.e. Italian, French. It's a good tip, they're usually good.
But then some of the Aussie reds are nice, Rosemount Estate is one brand I reccomend, obviously they do different reds, cabs, merlots, sauv.....usual.

Dear me I love red wine
What am I talking about? at the moment I have a Chilean Cab' in my hand...and it's awesome

decides2dream

jimed14 wrote:

(not being a dick, just being an educator here. ... "Aussie shiraz" is redundant ... if it's called Shiraz, it's Australian by nature, if it's made here in the US, it's Syrah. You can actually get Rosemont Shiraz in your local gorcery store for around $10-15, and honestly, I like it)

hey there!
i KNEW it wasn't just oz that referred to shiraz as shiraz. i was just out to dinner the other night, got a bottle of cali wine....and yes, it was labelled SHIRAZ. as i said earlier, i've known about the syrah/shiraz, being interchangeable...but never heard that the term 'shiraz' was aussie-only. so someone better inform delicato wineries.



btw - tried a malbec from coppolla and it was delish! bold and deep...with chocolate undertones....sooo good! i didn't know any cali wineries even produced malbecs - it is new for coppolla, thought it was pretty much the domain of SA.

wolfbear

vduboise wrote:

you are suppose to spit it out- eat some bread or neutral crackers and then try some more.

If you really want to know about wines- most culinary schools have wine classes for recreational purposes. I did one years ago when I left school. It was great and informative

We once took a class with another couple at a community college. It was really fun and informative. We got to try many different wines from all over. We've also visited many different wineries, which is something we love to do while traveling. The one thing I learned about me is that I love them all. I guess my palate isn't very discriminating.

BinFrog

Without getting into my favorites or what I know about wines, one piece of advice: Find a local liquor store and ask if they have someone there who knows about wines. If so, have them walk you around the store and pick out 5-6 of their recommendations in your price range. Be honest about what you are willing to spend. Tell the guy you want wines in the $10-20 range, or no more than $12, or go crazy and say you want a few in the $20 range and 1 or 2 in the $30-40 range to try some of the less expensive of the higher end wines. Do this a few times a year and keep a notebook of your favorites. If you find a $15 bottle you love, inquire about buying a case so you always have some around for guests and nice dinners.

decides2dream

BinFrog wrote:

Without getting into my favorites or what I know about wines, one piece of advice: Find a local liquor store and ask if they have someone there who knows about wines. If so, have them walk you around the store and pick out 5-6 of their recommendations in your price range. Be honest about what you are willing to spend. Tell the guy you want wines in the $10-20 range, or no more than $12, or go crazy and say you want a few in the $20 range and 1 or 2 in the $30-40 range to try some of the less expensive of the higher end wines. Do this a few times a year and keep a notebook of your favorites. If you find a $15 bottle you love, inquire about buying a case so you always have some around for guests and nice dinners.

excellent advice!


i think too, simply paying attention to what you drink at a friends house, out to dinner...making note of what you seemingly enjoy, or not....especially differing varietals...and then using such info as a guideline in the wine hop when making choices. when we first started buying, i focused on a few varietals we enjoyed and price ranges we were willing to spend in. also, recommendations of friends helped expand what to try as well. it's such a fun and enjoyable process, trying new wines! i especially enjoy finding wines that i really like that are inexpensive. i've tried just about ever pinot noir our local store carries under $30, many shirazes, malbecs, etc....using this same system...trying different vairetals from different regions, etc. whatever criteria you choose can make it fun to experiement!

sennin

There are no rules to what is good...and what is bad. Drink what tastes good to you. Try them with different foods....try wines that 'compliment' the food.....try wines that 'contrast' with the food. Talk to the 'wine person' at your local grocery store.

....and 3 buck chuck isn't bad wine. The Shiraz and Chard have won many awards....including "double golds" for their respective classes. It kind of turn the wine industry on it's ear. A wine that scores 97+....for $3??? Wine snobs everywhere are probably in a panic!
http://www.napavalleyregister.com/artic ... 254801.txt

You can't judge a wine by it's price.


Some basics.....

Reds w/ hearty meals....try a Bogel Cabernet (Or Chuck) w/ some lamb....or even pasta or a nice pizza!

Whites w/ lighter meals....BV Carneros Chard w/ some fish.....or fish tacos But some whites can really stand up to heavier stuff too!

Grey areas....spicy foods, I like a gewurstraminer or a reisling (sweet white wines). I think you can go white or red w/ salmon or tomato based dishes.


and oh...last tip....pick up the glass by the stem. <maybe a slight bit snobby?

ok...one more tip....don't let anyone tell you what to like!

decides2dream

this reminds me, just watched the flick bottle shock over the weekend. while it's no sideways...it's a good little flick and pretty interesting, and true. anything with alan rickman always gets me watching no matter what.

jimed14

decides2dream wrote:

jimed14 wrote:

(not being a dick, just being an educator here. ... "Aussie shiraz" is redundant ... if it's called Shiraz, it's Australian by nature, if it's made here in the US, it's Syrah. You can actually get Rosemont Shiraz in your local gorcery store for around $10-15, and honestly, I like it)

hey there!
i KNEW it wasn't just oz that referred to shiraz as shiraz. i was just out to dinner the other night, got a bottle of cali wine....and yes, it was labelled SHIRAZ. as i said earlier, i've known about the syrah/shiraz, being interchangeable...but never heard that the term 'shiraz' was aussie-only. so someone better inform delicato wineries.

There is a vineyard out here named Loxton, they are from Australia ... they actually borught out Shiraz grapes, grow them here and call one of their wines "Shiraz" ... but, they note it's a Shiraz "clone" ... check them out if you can ...

http://www.loxtonwines.com/index.html

decides2dream

jimed14 wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

jimed14 wrote:

(not being a dick, just being an educator here. ... "Aussie shiraz" is redundant ... if it's called Shiraz, it's Australian by nature, if it's made here in the US, it's Syrah. You can actually get Rosemont Shiraz in your local gorcery store for around $10-15, and honestly, I like it)

hey there!
i KNEW it wasn't just oz that referred to shiraz as shiraz. i was just out to dinner the other night, got a bottle of cali wine....and yes, it was labelled SHIRAZ. as i said earlier, i've known about the syrah/shiraz, being interchangeable...but never heard that the term 'shiraz' was aussie-only. so someone better inform delicato wineries.

There is a vineyard out here named Loxton, they are from Australia ... they actually borught out Shiraz grapes, grow them here and call one of their wines "Shiraz" ... but, they note it's a Shiraz "clone" ... check them out if you can ...

http://www.loxtonwines.com/index.html

my only *point* was....there ARe winemakers outside of oz calling their syrahs/shirazes....shiraz. :P even sennin above refers to yet another cali winemaker and their shiraz. that was all. whether they are 'incorrect' to do so or not, point is....they ARe putting it on the bottle label....so indeed, there ARE wines not from oz that are called shiraz. whether they note it's a 'clone' or not.....still using the name. a rose by any other name would still smell just as sweet.

sennin

decides2dream wrote:

my only *point* was....there ARe winemakers outside of oz calling their syrahs/shirazes....shiraz. :P even sennin above refers to yet another cali winemaker and their shiraz. that was all. whether they are 'incorrect' to do so or not, point is....they ARe putting it on the bottle label....so indeed, there ARE wines not from oz that are called shiraz. whether they note it's a 'clone' or not.....still using the name. a rose by any other name would still smell just as sweet.

and Syrah.....is named for a region in France....where it originally came from. I'm not sure where 'shiraz' came from.

Something_More

I really like Cabs... but they can be really bold.
Try Ménage à Trois Red blend... VERY good and you can find it for about $10.