***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

The Fixer

gonna be a lot of quick games this summer. not looking forward to watching this offense. get well chase



I think we have a pretty good idea of Manuel's intentions for the first month or so of the schedule:

1. Play Jim Thome twice per week at first base with Mayberry playing the other three or four games.

2. Rotate Juan Pierre and Laynce Nix in left field, with Pierre getting the bulk of the starts against lefties.

3. On occasion, against certain lefties, start John Mayberry Jr. in left and Ty Wigginton at first base.

In other words, I see Thome and Nix both getting two starts per week and Mayberry and Pierre both getting four. Mayberry will pick up a start every now and then in center field in relief of Shane Victorino, while Wigginton could work in at third on occasion. That puts Mayberry in position to reach 500 plate appearances, should he continue to earn the opportunity. But it is going to take a lot more than last night to convince anybody that the Galvis-Pitcher-Pierre-Polanco portion of the lineup is going to produce anything more than a convenient opportunity to grab beer, hot dogs and a bathroom break.

The Fixer

prime example of how the howard deal will kill this franchise for next 5-6 years


Now the Phillies' decision about Hamels has been clearly framed for them by the Cain contract. The market value has been defined.

Hamels is about the same age as Cain, and he could be eligible for free agency in the fall, as Cain was. The only real difference is that Hamels is left-handed and Cain is a righty, and typically, lefties have gotten the largest deals, from CC Sabathia to Cliff Lee to Johan Santana to Barry Zito.

The talks between the Phillies and Hamels have been dormant in recent weeks but can be rekindled with a single phone call. It's hard to imagine, though, that any offer markedly less than what Cain got would have a chance for a deal.

The Phillies have been asking themselves this: Do they want to commit about $70 million annually to three starting pitchers -- and $95 million to four players, if you include Ryan Howard? Can that be a framework that will create success?

If the Phillies don't want to pay Hamels market value, someone else will.

The Yankees will be in a better position to make a pitch for pitchers in a couple of years, writes Joel Sherman.

The Juggler

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

Empty Glass

The Fixer wrote:

prime example of how the howard deal will kill this franchise for next 5-6 years

I get blood boiling pissed off at each reference of this contract. This Achilles rehab better make him a .280 hitter. That's all I ask for is .280. Just bat your weight.

The Fixer

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

yeah, salisbury is the phils puppet

The Fixer

Empty Glass wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

prime example of how the howard deal will kill this franchise for next 5-6 years

I get blood boiling pissed off at each reference of this contract. This Achilles rehab better make him a .280 hitter. That's all I ask for is .280. Just bat your weight.

would be nice, but it's not gonna happen. dude isn't worth 15 mill a year, let alone 25

JK_Livin

The Fixer wrote:

Now the Phillies' decision about Hamels has been clearly framed for them by the Cain contract. The market value has been defined.

Cain's deal has zero effect on Hamels. Cain doesn't shop in Hamels' market. Hamels' value is clearly higher than Cain's. Even if the both went into FA, Hamels was going to get more per year. He's better and we all new this before Cain's deal.

Johnny Abruzzo

JK_Livin wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Now the Phillies' decision about Hamels has been clearly framed for them by the Cain contract. The market value has been defined.

Cain's deal has zero effect on Hamels. Cain doesn't shop in Hamels' market. Hamels' value is clearly higher than Cain's. Even if the both went into FA, Hamels was going to get more per year. He's better and we all new this before Cain's deal.

If you take away W-L record it's pretty close. And anyone who uses W-L record as a criteria is an idiot.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

wishful thinking maybe, clifford? lil bit?

most people would agree that salisbury isn't a puppet for the phils though. matty gelb said they were getting close this past weekend too. i don't think anybody knows for sure. but cain signing this soon sucks.


did you seet this? http://www.thegoodphight.com/2012/4/3/2 ... -mattingly

harball talk linked to it too. good read. i despise the yankees but was a big donnie baseball fan growing up (the yankees were more tolerable when they were losing ). pretty good comparison

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

JK_Livin wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Now the Phillies' decision about Hamels has been clearly framed for them by the Cain contract. The market value has been defined.

Cain's deal has zero effect on Hamels. Cain doesn't shop in Hamels' market. Hamels' value is clearly higher than Cain's. Even if the both went into FA, Hamels was going to get more per year. He's better and we all new this before Cain's deal.

If you take away W-L record it's pretty close. And anyone who uses W-L record as a criteria is an idiot.

cain is actually younger than hamels. and one could argue more durable.

hamels avg WAR per year - 3.75
cain avg WAR per year - 3.57

I think hamels is better, but cain is no slouch. they're both really, really good pitchers.

why do you think hamels is 'clearly better'?

The Fixer

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

wishful thinking maybe, clifford? lil bit?

most people would agree that salisbury isn't a puppet for the phils though. matty gelb said they were getting close this past weekend too. i don't think anybody knows for sure. but cain signing this soon sucks.


did you seet this? http://www.thegoodphight.com/2012/4/3/2 ... -mattingly

harball talk linked to it too. good read. i despise the yankees but was a big donnie baseball fan growing up (the yankees were more tolerable when they were losing ). pretty good comparison

salisbury has no sources outside of the organization. he's the definition of a puppet. I'll believe olney and rosenthal over gleb/salisbury every single time

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

wishful thinking maybe, clifford? lil bit?

most people would agree that salisbury isn't a puppet for the phils though. matty gelb said they were getting close this past weekend too. i don't think anybody knows for sure. but cain signing this soon sucks.


did you seet this? http://www.thegoodphight.com/2012/4/3/2 ... -mattingly

harball talk linked to it too. good read. i despise the yankees but was a big donnie baseball fan growing up (the yankees were more tolerable when they were losing ). pretty good comparison

salisbury has no sources outside of the organization. he's the definition of a puppet

well, like i said, most people disagree with this for the most part. i know jp's a fan. never heard him referred to as a puppet (including all the times he has been refernced in this thread). heard that about stark. not salisbury.

The Fixer

The Juggler wrote:

well, like i said, most people disagree with this for the most part. i know jp's a fan. never heard him referred to as a puppet (including all the times he has been refernced in this thread). heard that about stark. not salisbury.

well I don't know what most people even means here. like I said, I'll put more worth in the reporters who have industry connections over the guy that only gets his news from the phillies. I don't mind salisbury, but I don't think he's anything special. He's a solid beat writer...good at reporting what news the phils give him. If the phils want people to believe that they are close to a deal with hamels, then that's what he's going to report. guys like olney and rosenthal are more in the know (and not reliant on the phils to give them news), so if they are saying talks have stalled then that's what I'm going to believe since they are the ones talking to organizational people, players, agents, etc.

stark is a clown with his dumb stats. salisbury is a puppet

anyway, does anyone have any confidence in amaro to sign hamels to a reasonable deal at this point? I wouldn't be shocked if hamels gets a larger contract than votto

Cliffy6745

The Juggler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Juggler wrote:

"dormant in recent weeks?" i don't buy that.

salisbury said a deal was close as recently as 5 days ago. hamels hinted that they needed to wait until after the season starts so it won't affect the luxury tax this year or something. i guess the cain deal may have thrown a wrench in the plans a bit though...still think a deal gets done. both sides sound like they want it.

I don't think it was(is) as close as you think it was. Rosenthal said right after the Salisbury article that they hadn't spoken in weeks.

wishful thinking maybe, clifford? lil bit?

most people would agree that salisbury isn't a puppet for the phils though. matty gelb said they were getting close this past weekend too. i don't think anybody knows for sure. but cain signing this soon sucks.


did you seet this? http://www.thegoodphight.com/2012/4/3/2 ... -mattingly

harball talk linked to it too. good read. i despise the yankees but was a big donnie baseball fan growing up (the yankees were more tolerable when they were losing ). pretty good comparison

Not really, anymore. I don't think the Yanks go after him anymore even if he does get there if they are serious about the $189 mil and the Pineda trade. I thought the Salisbury thing sounded like a bunch of assumptions then Rosenthal said that, so I was a bit skeptical. We'll see soon.

I did see that. I made this comparsion a few times over the past few weeks. Donnie got hurt a lot earlier and was pretty much done by Utley's age but it's a good comparsion. Mattingly is the man. My favorite player as a kid, obviously.

The Juggler

i was talking about most people in general. i've just never heard anyone refer to salisbury as a puppet before...same in here everytime his name has been mentioned.

obviously rosenthal and olney have more sources since they're national. but i feel salisbury knows this team better than most.



amaro's had a solid track record thus far assembling this staff. i think a deal gets done.....

Johnny Abruzzo

It sounded like they were close to a deal from the comments of one Cole Hamels, himself. At least to my ears.

The Fixer

The Juggler wrote:

amaro's had a solid track record thus far assembling this staff. i think a deal gets done.....

amaro would be a fantastic GM if success was based on starting rotations

I think they sign him too. I'm just paranoid to see what the contract looks like. just another misread market...this time instead of jumping the gun he waited too long. hamels price tag is going to go up after every 2012 start he makes. unlike howard, who would have no big market suitors for his potential free agency, hamels will have LAD, cubs, yanks, red sox, blue jays all waiting for him to hit the market

I have no confidence in the guy

Ledbetterman10

The Fixer wrote:

anyway, does anyone have any confidence in amaro to sign hamels to a reasonable deal at this point? I wouldn't be shocked if hamels gets a larger contract than votto

I think it'll be something like Halladay's contract.

The Fixer

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

anyway, does anyone have any confidence in amaro to sign hamels to a reasonable deal at this point? I wouldn't be shocked if hamels gets a larger contract than votto

I think it'll be something like Halladay's contract.

I think that's wishful thinking. Halladay was the rare exception where the player picked a team and came here for less than he would have received on the open market. His contract is an absolute steal

Hamels is going to get paid. 3 years, 60 mill would be awesome, but I don't think that's anywhere near enough years or loot.

Crazy that hamels is still only 28. Seems like he's been here forever