"because they admire power and want to live forever"
that is, after all, what you're saying..
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I know a lot of Christians who thoroughly researched religions (atheism and Christianity included) before comming to their conclusions. They believe in Christianity as a result of their research. They believe there's a hell because they believe the Bible accurately represents the words Jesus spoke about the subject. They don't like the idea of eternal seperation from the loving God they've experienced throughout much of their lives. I'm sure the idea of escaping "eternal torment" is fine with them also.
..[/quote]It's just hard for a lot of people to act like decent human beings without being able to associate such behavior with something "greater" than just being a decent human being. That's why they need religion. ..[/quote]
In other words, it's hard for them to take credit for their good deeds. Genuine humility often has that effect on people. I see nothing wrong with it.
They lack a natural sense of morality. They are empty, belief-lacking shells of people they may have once been before being brainwashed by...whomever.
Or maybe they see themselves in hindsight and appreciate the positive changes God has brought to pass in them, without dwelling on themselves and those changes, but instead focus their attention on doing good for the benifit of others.
..[/quote]Religion is immoral.quote]
I don't know whether or not you were also speaking in general terms with that statement. I don't even need to argue on behalf of Christianity's world-wide outreach to the basic physical needs of millions.
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I know a lot of Christians who thoroughly researched religions (atheism and Christianity included) before comming to their conclusions. They believe in Christianity as a result of their research.
That's called an appeal to authority. You suggest that these people are right simply because they've done research. Very simplistic thinking....
They believe there's a hell because they believe the Bible accurately represents the words Jesus spoke about the subject. They don't like the idea of eternal seperation from the loving God they've experienced throughout much of their lives. I'm sure the idea of escaping "eternal torment" is fine with them also.
Evidence to god's power...as I was saying.
Also...you mention their wanting God's "love." The truth is that if God not was not an all-powerful being, they wouldn't care much for it. What they really want is acceptance from a perceived authority figure.
That's why I mention obedience theory. Statistically, it has been proven that people will value acceptance from an authority figure over their own personal beliefs.
God is that authority figure.
In other words, it's hard for them to take credit for their good deeds. Genuine humility often has that effect on people. I see nothing wrong with it.
Wow, you completely twisted my words. Well, that's your style of writing it seems.
My point is that they would not be committing those good deeds were it not for religion, and religion allows them to commit good deeds because it lends them the glory of the greatness of god, and also keeps them out of hell. That's not humility. That's fear and vanity.
After all, Christians believe that good deeds are the result of a belief in God...fear and vanity.
Or maybe they see themselves in hindsight and appreciate the positive changes God has brought to pass in them, without dwelling on themselves and those changes, but instead focus their attention on doing good for the benifit of others.
Like you said earlier...it's a fear of going to hell. Now you're changing your story. Again...it's what I'm beginning to expect from you.
I don't know whether or not you were also speaking in general terms with that statement. I don't even need to argue on behalf of Christianity's world-wide outreach to the basic physical needs of millions.
In the name of avoiding hell and living in the greatness of god.
Simply put, coerced moral deeds are not moral deeds no matter what the result.
Your logic is that the ends justify the means. Such logic is immature and lacking in a moral foundation. Such is the plight of those who find solace in religious doctrine.
Quote:
So are you arguing that a Christian (with God's help) isn't capable of actually being humble due to the fact that they've read about humility in the Bible?
The bible doesn't really address humility in its true form. You have delivered a loaded question.
You assume that the bible teaches compassion.
Jesus, during meetings with Pilate and others, had plenty of opportunities to avoid any kind of punishment. The humility He displayed in living a completely selfless life for strangers, being severely punished (having his flesh torn to shreds by a cat of nine tails, etc.), the extent of the mental torture, and an excruciating death was humility and compassion at it's best. The events were even documented in the work of well-known non-christian historians. I recall one of the names being Josephus. You can just say you don't believe any of it. That's fine.
Quote:
Our existance is anything but simple though. Ask any scientist, atheist or Christian. So if a person believes it's wise (benificial to himself and others) to ponder the origin of life, it's somehow his/her pround yet insecure crutch?
Your statement is in contradiction to the OP quote that I posted. The OP quote stated that an understanding of life should not be available to a select few who study for many years.
Deep theology isn't the topic we're on. Even a child can be influenced by reading simple acts of kindness. You didn't grow up in a bubble, so you were influenced by hundreds of people, directly and indirectly.
Also....you mention pondering the origin of life. Christians do not ponder the origin of life. Rather, they claim to know it. Huge difference...
Again, I personally know many Christians (and have heard testimonies of many I don't know) who have explained how they have researched atheism, christianity and other religions, which involved pondering science and the orgin of our existance. For them, their conclusion, which they're very confident about, is a case that has many aspects.
Quote:
Since you don't believe in God, who changes the heart which leads to change of behavior, then ok. I believe otherwise. Are there also instances of Christian immaturity and failure? Yes, of course.
This is what I'm talking about...you believe that a change for the better can only be derived from an outside influence.
My point was that through the reminders (I don't know how else to put it) of the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Triune God, Christians behave 'better' than 'they' otherwise would without Him. Christians are also given a new nature to work with, so not all good behavior is a result of the Holy Spirit's guidance.
Children become better sons and daughters, poor behaving students become better behaving students, dishonest employees become honest employees, etc. Various people, christian and non-cristian, go through various stages in life. And yes, I do believe pride toward acknowledging God can be an ultimate (eternal) stumbling block for many.
The truth is that morality lies within. We find our sense of morality by looking into our own ability to be compassionate human beings.
I guess in the end you'll find out whether compassion and humility toward God, encompassed by faith, was necessary.
Otherwise, it is a coerced behavior, and coerced moral behavior simply isn't moral.
I didn't say I was convinced that people were incapable of doing truly genuine good deeds before becoming Christians. I'm undecided on this.
Quote:
So are you arguing that a Christian (with God's help) isn't capable of actually being compassionate due to the fact that they've read about compassion in the Bible?
It teaches an obedience to God. That is the foundation for christianity, is it not?
No. Faith in Christ/God is the foundation of Christianity. The Bible teaches that we're not saved by good works but that good works result from our faith.
The concept is called Divine Command, and it represents a cold and immoral approach to acts of compassion.
It's not whether or not God's will is compassionate; it's that God will is the will of a being who created the universe, and therefore deserves our allegiance.
God communicated in His Word that his instruction is what is truly best for us. God (the Father/The first person of the Trinity) does deserve reverence. I have no problem with that. Christ (Jesus, the 2nd person of the Trinity) deserves our allegiance because of who He is, but most importantly because of what He did on our behalf.
Do you honestly stop and question whether God's will is truly compassionate?
I did plenty when I was much younger. I don't now.
Quote:
What 'need' would there be to feel a sense of well-being after doing a good deed? Would there be pride and/or insecurity involved in that? Isn't the good deed all about the need of the person on the receiving end?
If that were true, then it wouldn't matter if a creature was that of God's making or not.
You would have to elaborate more on that. I missed your point.
According to the veterinarian in my example, the cat deserved to live not because there is a natural sense of well-being to be derived from doing a good deed, but because a supreme being commands it so.
I don't have a problem believing a non-christian, a pre-christian, and a christian can all help animals for completely genuine reasons.
Alas, I am disappointed once again in religion's ability to persuade me that God's will represents a true sense of morality.
There are different levels of Christian maturity. Some Christians do good deeds only (or partly) because they think they should. Some Christians do good deeds because it feels natural to them. Other Chrstians do good deeds because they are promted to by the Holy Spirit sometimes and other times it feels natural to them. There's too many variances to list.
It seems that you, mikesguitar, couldn't respond without loaded, rhetorical questions that side-stepped the points that I was making. Why am I not surprised?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
The answer is that religion is simply an instrument of control for people who lack a natural sense of morality.
I'm not trying to control anything. I created this thread with the hope that it would somehow benefit someone.
I'm very sorry to put it that way, but I do BELIEVE that it is in your best interests if there is any hope for you to eventually discover the good within you that exists without the crutch of religion.
At this point in life I don't seperate my faith from any good thing I might do. I don't bother keeping score. To be honest, I don't even think about the deed itself.
I doubt you will see God's face in the sun one day while hearing a ground shaking command to accept Christ as your savior. Here are some (not all) of the ways He has made Himself known:
Creation: The earth in all it's complexity has
design written all over it. If a basketball needed created
then how much more the earth and beyond? Put a
watch in a paper bag and then take a sledge hammer
to it. The pieces aren't going to go into place and
function no matter how much time passes. There is nearly an infinite amount of scientific creation evidence extant for anyone who's interested to check it out.
Darwinism is teetering and it's inevitable demise is
foreseen by a rapidly increasing number of scientists worldwide. Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era. Scientists
today know he had no clue of the complexity of a
single human cell (stretch one out and the genetic
information reaches for miles) when he spoke of
spontaneous generation. Why doesn't SG happen
today within or outside of a lab? Billions of normal
fossils and skeletons have been found but nothing at all
transitional. Darwin himself said if this missing
link wasn't soon found (which has long passed) then his theory would be debunked.
Gimme a break. If you want to believe that evolution is all tripppy science junk, have at it, but don't use your misinformation to prove a point to anyone else.
Archaeological evidence: Cities, specifics like
monuments, buildings, artifacts, etc. match O.T.
history.
Yes, and Star Wars was filmed in Death Valley, Texas. Are you saying Jawas exist?
Fulfilled Bible prophecy: The O.T. prophecy of the
temple to be destroyed was fulfilled in N.T. times.
There are many other similar examples.
A lot of Nostradamus' prophecies have come true too. Should I worship him as some sort of god? Or is it possible that if you make enough stabs in the dark, some of them happen eventually, in some form or another? Besides, when it comes to proving the Bible's points, another book of the Bible isn't where I'd turn.
Fulfilled messianic prophecy: More than a hundred were listed
in the O.T. and Jesus fulfilled them all, including
many he couldn't have possibly controlled: his leg was
not broken by Roman soldiers despite that being the
customary norm for anyone on a cross, a crown of
thorns was placed on his head, his clothes were
gambled for, etc. etc.
Bible harmony: There were close to a hundred authors involved
in writing the Bible who were from different races, linguistic barriers,
time periods, regions, and cultures, but a common
gospel theme and total harmony is found from cover to cover. Each book
totally harmonizes with the whole in each aspect. No
claimed Bible contradictions have ever been proven.
The empty tomb and evidence of the gospel accounts:
Jame's, the brother of Jesus, abrupt turn from his
pre-resurrection adamant rejection of Jesus' claims
of being the messiah to dying for his faith after
witnessing the resurrected Christ, Peter's and the
disciples' cowardice and rejection of Christ pre-resurrection
but post-rez being bold as lions and dying for their
faith (Peter, with humility, even requested to die upside down rather than be hung upright on a cross like Christ) , God choosing Mary Magdalene to be the first eye witness of the resurrected Christ despite the fact
that womens' testimonies weren't even allowed in
court in that day (she would have been the worst candidate
to be used for a hoax story. She was not only a
woman but a former prostitute), God's sovereignty which
insured the rise of Christianity despite severe
government persecution by both the Jewish and Roman
governments, etc. etc. See Lee Strobel's book "Case for Christ" for much more.
I think it's great that you're willing to put your faith in this. I really do.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I have no problem with that. I'll place my faith in the science and research of a highly educated individual over the Easter Bunny any day. Oh, and science isn't supposed to be open minded per se, so much as it focuses on facts and figures.
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I have no problem with that. I'll place my faith in the science and research of a highly educated individual over the Easter Bunny any day. Oh, and science isn't supposed to be open minded per se, so much as it focuses on facts and figures.
Fascist
"If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesguitar
I doubt you will see God's face in the sun one day while hearing a ground shaking command to accept Christ as your savior. Here are some (not all) of the ways He has made Himself known:
Creation: The earth in all it's complexity has
design written all over it. If a basketball needed created
then how much more the earth and beyond? Put a
watch in a paper bag and then take a sledge hammer
to it. The pieces aren't going to go into place and
function no matter how much time passes. There is nearly an infinite amount of scientific creation evidence extant for anyone who's interested to check it out.
Darwinism is teetering and it's inevitable demise is
foreseen by a rapidly increasing number of scientists worldwide. Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era. Scientists
today know he had no clue of the complexity of a
single human cell (stretch one out and the genetic
information reaches for miles) when he spoke of
spontaneous generation. Why doesn't SG happen
today within or outside of a lab? Billions of normal
fossils and skeletons have been found but nothing at all
transitional. Darwin himself said if this missing
link wasn't soon found (which has long passed) then his theory would be debunked.
Gimme a break. If you want to believe that evolution is all tripppy science junk, have at it, but don't use your misinformation to prove a point to anyone else.
I'm not claiming to be a genius in regards to science, but I feel like I understand it. What part was misinformation? For starters, can you mention a source of orininal matter and motion or a legitimate transitional missing link? What exactly then are you putting your faith in?
Quote:
Archaeological evidence: Cities, specifics like
monuments, buildings, artifacts, etc. match O.T.
history.
Yes, and Star Wars was filmed in Death Valley, Texas. Are you saying Jawas exist?
Archaeological evidence is one small peice of the puzzle. Specific cities and artifacts have been unearthed from specific depths, which have lead scientists to believe in the miraculous. If a person has trouble believing an all powerful God wasn't able to perform miracles then at least the cities, buildings, artifacts, etc. being the same as described in the Bible should be worth something.
Quote:
Fulfilled Bible prophecy: The O.T. prophecy of the
temple to be destroyed was fulfilled in N.T. times.
There are many other similar examples.
A lot of Nostradamus' prophecies have come true too. Should I worship him as some sort of god? Or is it possible that if you make enough stabs in the dark, some of them happen eventually, in some form or another? Besides, when it comes to proving the Bible's points, another book of the Bible isn't where I'd turn.
Bible prophecy is specific. There wasn't any stabbing in the dark before getting it right. Nostradaumus' prophecies were generalized to the max. I studied the Nostradaumus prophecies. Can you name a Nostradaumus prophecy that you believe is legitimate? Non-Biblical sources (Josephus, etc.) have some of the prophecies and miracles of the Bible recorded.
The Bible teaches a gospel that is totally at odds with the messages of the other religions you mentioned.
...
So?
My point is that there are many paths towards God... not just yours. You happen to choose the path as outlined in the Bible as interpreted by the doctrine of the Church. It works for you... which I happy for.
It does not mean your way is the only way and it does not mean anyone else has to follow you.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Is that all it takes to be considered a fascist these days. Awesome! I thought I might have to actually initiate a dictatorial philosophy that placed nation and race above the individual... or something. I didn't know it was so easy. Woo-hoo! I'm a fascist! This whole time I thought I was heavily armed environmental nut job. Who knew?
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Is that all it takes to be considered a fascist these days. Awesome! I thought I might have to actually initiate a dictatorial philosophy that placed nation and race above the individual... or something. I didn't know it was so easy. Woo-hoo! I'm a fascist! This whole time I thought I was heavily armed environmental nut job. Who knew?
I so love getting under people's skin. It's like my hobby. Some time, for fun, get a couple of friends to get in their cars, get on the highway so each of you are in a lane of your own and line up next to each other. Then ride at the speed limit with the cruise control set so no one can pass and watch the fun.
"If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
I don't have time for a long technical discussion, but I'll explain a bit of where I'm comming from. I use the law of probability for an understanding of why the earth is in this one optimum position in the milky way with the corresponding laws of the universe supporting it. I can't consider this obvious, pinpoint accurate design for sustenance of life as a mere coincidence. When asked about this subject, most Darwinists sidestep the issue with 'there must be millions of planets like this out there somewhere'. The DVD, ThePrivileged Planet: The Search for Purpose in the Universe by
Jay W. Richards, is a good place to start on this topic, IMO. It can be found at http://www.equip.org/store/topical.asp?Div=Types&Da=y&Author=&TopID=&Keyword=&K2=&DeptID=204&SubID=&List=all .
I have no real problem with the idea of an old earth, as many Christians hold to a day/age, old-earth belief. It's spontaneous generation and macro-evolution that I see no shred of evidence anywhere for. It's a shame those two doctrines were forced upon students for a number of years. The DVD Unlocking the Mystery of Life (can be found at http://www.equip.org is excellent. The DVD does a great job in showing how evolution gives no account for the origin of genetic info for either protein or the flagellar motor assembly. It seems clear to me that a law of probability points to creation being the cause of such sophisticated life. I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind.
...
The Earth at the right distance... orbiting around the right sized star... at this time. This was not always the case... and it will not be in the future.
At some point in time... our Sun is going to die. When it does... Earth will cease to exist. Life on Earth will disapper long before that when the internal engine (the Earth's core) cools.
There is no design here... it is a random occurance of objects moving about in space. We don't know about life on other planets in the whole expanse of time... but, there is a good probability that somewgere else in the Universe, there is a right sized planet orbiting around a right sized star at some time in the future or the past that has the right ingredients for life to occur.
ADD: "The DVD does a great job in showing how evolution gives no account for the origin of genetic info for either protein or the flagellar motor assembly. It seems clear to me that a law of probability points to creation being the cause of such sophisticated life. I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind."
...
That entire Intelligent Design theory about the flagellar motor was dispelled in the case where I.D. went on trial in Dover, PA. Remember? That's the place that Pat Robertson said the people should suffer the wrath of God for their decision. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/wm/3416_08_220.html
...
"I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind."
I suggest that you take your own advice here.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I so love getting under people's skin. It's like my hobby. Some time, for fun, get a couple of friends to get in their cars, get on the highway so each of you are in a lane of your own and line up next to each other. Then ride at the speed limit with the cruise control set so no one can pass and watch the fun.
You are so not under my skin. I find you laughable.
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Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
this thread wouldnt bug me if mikesguitar had posted here on other occassions rather than to simply peddle his religion (and thats not pulling the elite post count BS)... no different than a solicitor in the middle of dinner... my problem is not as much with religion itself as it is obviously a source of hope for many people... but why the fuck do they always feel the need to share it with and persuade everyone??
Matt. 6:5-6
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
i had a friend and bandmate who believed jesus wanted him to quit playing guitar... which he was INCREDIBLE at... so he left the band and literally started talking like he had been brainwashed... he would say how worried he was about my soul and get all self righteous about religious and how glad he was he found jesus... :rolleyes:
mikesguitar... you started this thread asking for OPINIONS... dont turn it into a debate... use it as an opportunity to see something beyond your narrow little POV
if not then take your show over to Africa where you and your missionary friends can continue the christian cultural crusades
Whats the point of arguing about something we know nothing about?.. its cool to discuss and bring up theories, but people who argue about faith are idiots. It even says it in the name, FAITH. Not fact, faith.. that goes for athiests too. If you argue, you are guilty.
...
It becomes an issue when someone wants to legislate faith onto me... on to any other American.
When Christian (or any other religion) wants to force a voodoo science, such as 'Intelligent Design' (a.k.a. 'Creationism'), as a legitimate science in our schools... then, it becomes an issue with me.
The same goes when one religion tries to legislate a law based upon their religious affiliation that we all must obey. It becomes an issue with me. And if you are an American, it should become and issue with you. Any theocracy is not welcomed here... we have several examples of theocracies in this world. You need not look any further than the Middle East.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I doubt you will see God's face in the sun one day while hearing a ground shaking command to accept Christ as your savior. Here are some (not all) of the ways He has made Himself known:
Creation: The earth in all it's complexity has
design written all over it. If a basketball needed created
then how much more the earth and beyond? Put a
watch in a paper bag and then take a sledge hammer
to it. The pieces aren't going to go into place and
function no matter how much time passes. There is nearly an infinite amount of scientific creation evidence extant for anyone who's interested to check it out.
It has design written all over it?
That's a highly subjective view, you start from the assumption that complexity equals divine creation. Why?
I sincerely hope you're not actually comparing physical cosmology to putting a watch in a bag and banging on it with a hammer. Because if you do you might as well admit that you aren't knowledgable about the creation of planets from a scientific view. So again, why can complexity only be a attribute of god?
Darwinism is teetering and it's inevitable demise is
foreseen by a rapidly increasing number of scientists worldwide. Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era. Scientists
today know he had no clue of the complexity of a
single human cell (stretch one out and the genetic
information reaches for miles) when he spoke of
spontaneous generation. Why doesn't SG happen
today within or outside of a lab? Billions of normal
fossils and skeletons have been found but nothing at all
transitional. Darwin himself said if this missing
link wasn't soon found (which has long passed) then his theory would be debunked.
Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era.
No one claims Darwin proved something, that his work is a finished one. Of course, scientists will discover new things about human cells, or basically about mankind. That doesn't dismiss the theory of evolution at all. Furthermore, what exactly would replace the theory of evolution? Creationism? Intelligent Design? Hate to burst your bubble but those are not even considered science. Not because of what their theories are but how they came to their theories, how they research their theories... They go against the scientific method. They start from an idea (the bible, creation) and then find evidence (or simply make up evidence) to support their theory. They dismiss what doesn't fit in.
Archaeological evidence: Cities, specifics like
monuments, buildings, artifacts, etc. match O.T.
history.
So? Evidence of what exactly? The only thing that is evidence of; is exactly that. Some cities, buildings etc. really existed. There are millions of works of fiction which have actual places or buildings in them. Doesn't prove anything.
Fulfilled Bible prophecy: The O.T. prophecy of the
temple to be destroyed was fulfilled in N.T. times.
There are many other similar examples.
Fulfilled messianic prophecy: More than a hundred were listed
in the O.T. and Jesus fulfilled them all, including
many he couldn't have possibly controlled: his leg was
not broken by Roman soldiers despite that being the
customary norm for anyone on a cross, a crown of
thorns was placed on his head, his clothes were
gambled for, etc. etc.
You're actually using this as an example? Explain to me how that proves anything or can even be considered evidence.
Bible harmony: There were close to a hundred authors involved
in writing the Bible who were from different races, linguistic barriers,
time periods, regions, and cultures, but a common
gospel theme and total harmony is found from cover to cover. Each book
totally harmonizes with the whole in each aspect. No
claimed Bible contradictions have ever been proven.
No contradictions have been proven, but the point of proving them anyway? Has the bible been proven?
I could go on and will if you want me too.
Anyway, glad you're still posting. I was afraid that all of us atheists might have scared you away
...
For starters, can you mention ... a legitimate transitional missing link? What exactly then are you putting your faith in?
...
...
I can. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/transitional.html
"In 2004, a field crew digging in the Canadian Arctic unearthed the fossil remains of a half-fish, half-amphibian that would all but confirm paleontologists' theories about how land-dwelling tetrapods (four-limbed animals, including us) evolved from their fish ancestors. The animal was a so-called lobe-finned fish that lived about 375 million years ago. Named Tiktaalik rosae by its discoverers, it is a classic example of a transitional form, one that bridges the evolutionary gap between two quite different types of animal. In this slide show, see this and four other well-known fossil transitions, which clearly indicate Darwinian evolution in action.—Rima Chaddha
Add: http://www.devoniantimes.org/Order/re-tiktaalik.html
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Here is the 'Creationists' (Intelligent Design) explanation of the existance of Dinosaurs:
"DINOSAURS - Every natural history museum in the world today displays large dinosaur models. Their defensive teeth, spikes and claws are often shown extended. As evidence of the prior existence of these kinds of creatures we have a myriad of bones found on multiple continents, footprints buried in sedimentary layers and ... legends. All over the world people remember the dangerous dragons of old. But they slowly went extinct. Men feared and hated them. Stories of ancient encounters with dinosaurs/dragons are found in China, Thailand, including other parts of Asia, and in Roman, Russian, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, North, South, and Central America, and across Africa too. Are we so much smarter and more academically inclined than all of our ancestors that we should reject all of their historical records - just to prop up temporary evolutionary theory?
Carbon-14 dating of carbon buried in the same layer with dragon bones helps to confirm that they are really only thousands of years old. The myth-ions and myth-ions of years never happened; only in the past 200 years has it become fashionable to forget our true ancient history (of thousands of years) in favor of God-hating (or: "bumbling-inherently-weak-god") evolution. Evolution requires the belief in long epochs of supposed time and chance improvements.
Dragons and sea monsters have become mostly extinct prior to our modern era. By the way, there is evidence that they grew much larger prior to the Great Flood. Just as humans lived much longer (Genesis records ages of some people to have reached over 900 years!) so a reptile ... living much longer then could have grown much larger before the Flood - which is indeed what we see in the fossil record of the pre-Flood world.
Humans and lions live on Earth at the same time today. But we live in different places. Porpoises will ram sharks that come into their waters. So naturally then they also live in different places - while living at the same time. Why couldn't humans and dinosaurs have lived at the same time? They'd probably keep mostly separate and then get buried separately if there was a catastrophe, but this could be theoretically possible, correct? There are at least two places known today with human and dinosaur tracks in the same sedimentary layer: one is in Paluxy, Texas, the other in Eastern Turkmenistan. Plus we have the legends, from all inhabited continents mind you, which should not be automatically discounted. (text by P.A.) "
There's one simple question that
atheists probably hear on a regular basis in one form
or another. If a god didn't 'initially' create matter
and motion, who or what did? In other words, how did
the initial motion and matter begin to exist? That's
the question the arguments all seem to come down to in
the end. Technical arguments about the earth could be made all day by either
side, but unless an atheist at least has an explanation
about the very beginning of matter and motion, then what's the
point in even trying to make a case against creationism?
It seems clear to me that God didn't create a
truth so technically sophisticated that it would take
half a lifetime of text book research to catch a
glimpse of it, even if that was possible. If that was
the case then only the
most scientifically-oriented, intelligent few would be
saved by His gospel (the gospel is the story of
Christ's death and the explanation of it's saving purpose)
and the gospel itself (the thread of the entire
Bible) would be of little importance. Instead, as the
Bible states it, God simply exists and His creation
makes it obvious to all. I believe the Bible teaches
that knowing the truth is only possible by having the
desire to know God (the truth). Being of the Calvinist
persuasion, I believe having this desire is only
possible when God gives it, and gives it only to some.
I can't advocate the Calvinism aspect of the Bible
with total confidence and I could even be wrong about
it. People having this desire to know God and humility
toward God seem to be an intertwining process.
According to the Bible, pride is one of the seven
abominations which God hates, the sin that ushered in
the initial fall (the angelic fall) as well as the
initial fall of man, and is the sin that most often
snared men throughout the Bible. It's no wonder then,
God choosing to unfold a creation story in Genesis
filled with so much wild, almost fantasy-like symbolic
imagery for the proud to scoff at and stumble upon.
I'm not trying to accuse you of being proud. I'm
trying to explain to you a mental pic of God's ways in
relation to mankind and creation.
Opinion...?
At first I'd be pissed a friend would send this to me...then I'd hit the delete button....
I have no problem with that. I'll place my faith in the science and research of a highly educated individual over the Easter Bunny any day. Oh, and science isn't supposed to be open minded per se, so much as it focuses on facts and figures.
Creation: The earth in all it's complexity has
design written all over it. If a basketball needed created
then how much more the earth and beyond? Put a
watch in a paper bag and then take a sledge hammer
to it. The pieces aren't going to go into place and
function no matter how much time passes. There is nearly an infinite amount of scientific creation evidence extant for anyone who's interested to check it out.
Why is it always argument by analogy on this topic? Why not address the specifics of what we are talking about?
The origin of the universe, not the tendancy of a watch to remain in a non-functional state over time. The two things are not even closely comparable.
The origin of the universe:
Tough to figure out? Yes.
Likely to be completely solved by physics? Probably not, unless we can exist for a very long time, and even then... who knows?
Resolved by introducing a divine creator? Absolutely not. A creator is inherently more complex than the created. The question just becomes bigger. And if you assign an 'infinity clause' to the creator, why not apply Occam's Razor and apply the same clause to the universe (or some cyclic form of it). Cuts an entire concept out of the equation creating a far more parsimonious explanation.
Believe what you want, just don't assume that your explanation is somehow simpler or more elegant than others.
Darwinism is teetering and it's inevitable demise is
foreseen by a rapidly increasing number of scientists worldwide. Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era. Scientists
today know he had no clue of the complexity of a
single human cell (stretch one out and the genetic
information reaches for miles) when he spoke of
spontaneous generation. Why doesn't SG happen
today within or outside of a lab? Billions of normal
fossils and skeletons have been found but nothing at all
transitional. Darwin himself said if this missing
link wasn't soon found (which has long passed) then his theory would be debunked.
You are propagating one of the most common misconceptions about 'missing link' fossils. That they are not normal fossils. They are. Every one of those billions of normal fossils that you mention are missing links.
Natural selection rarely favours major changes. Instead the theory of evolution describes a very long and gradual series of small changes. Nautilus shells are thought to be currently undergoing a period of rapid evolutionary diversification. And trust me... It aint that exciting! Come back in a few thousand years and you won't be able to see any difference.
It is simplistic and naive to expect fossils to be found that are half way between all of the major groups of organisms. It is also naive to imagine that, given what we know about the low probability of fossil formation, a complete fossil record actually exists, let alone can be found. But enough exists for an accurate, albeit improving understanding of life's history, especially when coupled with genetic evidence. And more specimens will be found, and our understanding of previous evolutionary pathways will continue to improve.
By all means, be happy in your own beliefs about evolution. But I hope that you find the time to do some reading so that you are no longer sprouting misconceptions. After all, evolution is entirely falsifiable. As biologist J.B.S. Haldane once argued, all it would take to disprove evolution is a 'fossilised rabit in the Precambriun'.
...
So?
My point is that there are many paths towards God... not just yours. You happen to choose the path as outlined in the Bible as interpreted by the doctrine of the Church. It works for you... which I happy for.
It does not mean your way is the only way and it does not mean anyone else has to follow you.
I do my own interpreting of the Bible. I don't rely on the Church. Anyway, if you take the time to throroughly study the other religions you'll find they have irreconcilable contradictions. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm not trying to have an attitude. I'm just putting some info out there in case someone wants to check it out, which I believe would benefit them.
...
The Earth at the right distance... orbiting around the right sized star... at this time. This was not always the case... and it will not be in the future.
At some point in time... our Sun is going to die. When it does... Earth will cease to exist. Life on Earth will disapper long before that when the internal engine (the Earth's core) cools.
There is no design here...
The Bible tells of an end of the world.
That entire Intelligent Design theory about the flagellar motor was dispelled in the case where I.D. went on trial in Dover, PA. Remember? That's the place that Pat Robertson said the people should suffer the wrath of God for their decision. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/wm/3416_08_220.html
...
"I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind."
I suggest that you take your own advice here.
I don't really see how the info in the DVD could be disproved but I'll check that link out when I get some time.
Hate to burst your bubble but those are not even considered science. Not because of what their theories are but how they came to their theories, how they research their theories...
They go against the scientific method. They start from an idea (the bible, creation) and then find evidence (or simply make up evidence) to support their theory. They dismiss what doesn't fit in.
The info in the DVD, Unlocking the Mysteries of Life, doesn't start with that presupposition at all. Rather, those scientists came to the point of being open minded to a creator after research which lead them to believe the earth and life were created.
I'm just putting some info out there in case someone wants to check it out, which I believe would benefit them.
awfully bold to assume whats best for a group of people you have never met... its people like you that turn people off of religion in the first place... so if your purpose is to recruit id say youre having the opposite effect
That's a highly subjective view, you start from the assumption that complexity equals divine creation. Why?
I sincerely hope you're not actually comparing physical cosmology to putting a watch in a bag and banging on it with a hammer. Because if you do you might as well admit that you aren't knowledgable about the creation of planets from a scientific view. So again, why can complexity only be a attribute of god?
Let's simplify things. Even if matter and motions somehow 'always existed', how did the particles from the big bang form, and more importantly, form such sophistication?
Here is the 'Creationists' (Intelligent Design) explanation of the existance of Dinosaurs:
"DINOSAURS - Every natural history museum in the world today displays large dinosaur models. Their defensive teeth, spikes and claws are often shown extended. As evidence of the prior existence of these kinds of creatures we have a myriad of bones found on multiple continents, footprints buried in sedimentary layers and ... legends. All over the world people remember the dangerous dragons of old. But they slowly went extinct. Men feared and hated them. Stories of ancient encounters with dinosaurs/dragons are found in China, Thailand, including other parts of Asia, and in Roman, Russian, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, North, South, and Central America, and across Africa too. Are we so much smarter and more academically inclined than all of our ancestors that we should reject all of their historical records - just to prop up temporary evolutionary theory?
Carbon-14 dating of carbon buried in the same layer with dragon bones helps to confirm that they are really only thousands of years old. The myth-ions and myth-ions of years never happened; only in the past 200 years has it become fashionable to forget our true ancient history (of thousands of years) in favor of God-hating (or: "bumbling-inherently-weak-god") evolution. Evolution requires the belief in long epochs of supposed time and chance improvements.
Dragons and sea monsters have become mostly extinct prior to our modern era. By the way, there is evidence that they grew much larger prior to the Great Flood. Just as humans lived much longer (Genesis records ages of some people to have reached over 900 years!) so a reptile ... living much longer then could have grown much larger before the Flood - which is indeed what we see in the fossil record of the pre-Flood world.
Humans and lions live on Earth at the same time today. But we live in different places. Porpoises will ram sharks that come into their waters. So naturally then they also live in different places - while living at the same time. Why couldn't humans and dinosaurs have lived at the same time? They'd probably keep mostly separate and then get buried separately if there was a catastrophe, but this could be theoretically possible, correct? There are at least two places known today with human and dinosaur tracks in the same sedimentary layer: one is in Paluxy, Texas, the other in Eastern Turkmenistan. Plus we have the legends, from all inhabited continents mind you, which should not be automatically discounted. (text by P.A.) "
Comments
Originally Posted by mikesguitar
because of who He is and the eternal life they have through Him
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I know a lot of Christians who thoroughly researched religions (atheism and Christianity included) before comming to their conclusions. They believe in Christianity as a result of their research. They believe there's a hell because they believe the Bible accurately represents the words Jesus spoke about the subject. They don't like the idea of eternal seperation from the loving God they've experienced throughout much of their lives. I'm sure the idea of escaping "eternal torment" is fine with them also.
..[/quote]It's just hard for a lot of people to act like decent human beings without being able to associate such behavior with something "greater" than just being a decent human being. That's why they need religion. ..[/quote]
In other words, it's hard for them to take credit for their good deeds. Genuine humility often has that effect on people. I see nothing wrong with it.
They lack a natural sense of morality. They are empty, belief-lacking shells of people they may have once been before being brainwashed by...whomever.
Or maybe they see themselves in hindsight and appreciate the positive changes God has brought to pass in them, without dwelling on themselves and those changes, but instead focus their attention on doing good for the benifit of others.
..[/quote]Religion is immoral.quote]
I don't know whether or not you were also speaking in general terms with that statement. I don't even need to argue on behalf of Christianity's world-wide outreach to the basic physical needs of millions.
That's called an appeal to authority. You suggest that these people are right simply because they've done research. Very simplistic thinking....
Evidence to god's power...as I was saying.
Also...you mention their wanting God's "love." The truth is that if God not was not an all-powerful being, they wouldn't care much for it. What they really want is acceptance from a perceived authority figure.
That's why I mention obedience theory. Statistically, it has been proven that people will value acceptance from an authority figure over their own personal beliefs.
God is that authority figure.
Wow, you completely twisted my words. Well, that's your style of writing it seems.
My point is that they would not be committing those good deeds were it not for religion, and religion allows them to commit good deeds because it lends them the glory of the greatness of god, and also keeps them out of hell. That's not humility. That's fear and vanity.
After all, Christians believe that good deeds are the result of a belief in God...fear and vanity.
Like you said earlier...it's a fear of going to hell. Now you're changing your story. Again...it's what I'm beginning to expect from you.
In the name of avoiding hell and living in the greatness of god.
Simply put, coerced moral deeds are not moral deeds no matter what the result.
Your logic is that the ends justify the means. Such logic is immature and lacking in a moral foundation. Such is the plight of those who find solace in religious doctrine.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Gimme a break. If you want to believe that evolution is all tripppy science junk, have at it, but don't use your misinformation to prove a point to anyone else.
Yes, and Star Wars was filmed in Death Valley, Texas. Are you saying Jawas exist?
A lot of Nostradamus' prophecies have come true too. Should I worship him as some sort of god? Or is it possible that if you make enough stabs in the dark, some of them happen eventually, in some form or another? Besides, when it comes to proving the Bible's points, another book of the Bible isn't where I'd turn.
I think it's great that you're willing to put your faith in this. I really do.
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/
http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
I have no problem with that. I'll place my faith in the science and research of a highly educated individual over the Easter Bunny any day. Oh, and science isn't supposed to be open minded per se, so much as it focuses on facts and figures.
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Fascist
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/
http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
Originally Posted by mikesguitar
I doubt you will see God's face in the sun one day while hearing a ground shaking command to accept Christ as your savior. Here are some (not all) of the ways He has made Himself known:
Creation: The earth in all it's complexity has
design written all over it. If a basketball needed created
then how much more the earth and beyond? Put a
watch in a paper bag and then take a sledge hammer
to it. The pieces aren't going to go into place and
function no matter how much time passes. There is nearly an infinite amount of scientific creation evidence extant for anyone who's interested to check it out.
Darwinism is teetering and it's inevitable demise is
foreseen by a rapidly increasing number of scientists worldwide. Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era. Scientists
today know he had no clue of the complexity of a
single human cell (stretch one out and the genetic
information reaches for miles) when he spoke of
spontaneous generation. Why doesn't SG happen
today within or outside of a lab? Billions of normal
fossils and skeletons have been found but nothing at all
transitional. Darwin himself said if this missing
link wasn't soon found (which has long passed) then his theory would be debunked.
Gimme a break. If you want to believe that evolution is all tripppy science junk, have at it, but don't use your misinformation to prove a point to anyone else.
I'm not claiming to be a genius in regards to science, but I feel like I understand it. What part was misinformation? For starters, can you mention a source of orininal matter and motion or a legitimate transitional missing link? What exactly then are you putting your faith in?
Quote:
Archaeological evidence: Cities, specifics like
monuments, buildings, artifacts, etc. match O.T.
history.
Yes, and Star Wars was filmed in Death Valley, Texas. Are you saying Jawas exist?
Archaeological evidence is one small peice of the puzzle. Specific cities and artifacts have been unearthed from specific depths, which have lead scientists to believe in the miraculous. If a person has trouble believing an all powerful God wasn't able to perform miracles then at least the cities, buildings, artifacts, etc. being the same as described in the Bible should be worth something.
Quote:
Fulfilled Bible prophecy: The O.T. prophecy of the
temple to be destroyed was fulfilled in N.T. times.
There are many other similar examples.
A lot of Nostradamus' prophecies have come true too. Should I worship him as some sort of god? Or is it possible that if you make enough stabs in the dark, some of them happen eventually, in some form or another? Besides, when it comes to proving the Bible's points, another book of the Bible isn't where I'd turn.
Bible prophecy is specific. There wasn't any stabbing in the dark before getting it right. Nostradaumus' prophecies were generalized to the max. I studied the Nostradaumus prophecies. Can you name a Nostradaumus prophecy that you believe is legitimate? Non-Biblical sources (Josephus, etc.) have some of the prophecies and miracles of the Bible recorded.
So?
My point is that there are many paths towards God... not just yours. You happen to choose the path as outlined in the Bible as interpreted by the doctrine of the Church. It works for you... which I happy for.
It does not mean your way is the only way and it does not mean anyone else has to follow you.
Hail, Hail!!!
Is that all it takes to be considered a fascist these days. Awesome! I thought I might have to actually initiate a dictatorial philosophy that placed nation and race above the individual... or something. I didn't know it was so easy. Woo-hoo! I'm a fascist! This whole time I thought I was heavily armed environmental nut job. Who knew?
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I so love getting under people's skin. It's like my hobby. Some time, for fun, get a couple of friends to get in their cars, get on the highway so each of you are in a lane of your own and line up next to each other. Then ride at the speed limit with the cruise control set so no one can pass and watch the fun.
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/
http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
The Earth at the right distance... orbiting around the right sized star... at this time. This was not always the case... and it will not be in the future.
At some point in time... our Sun is going to die. When it does... Earth will cease to exist. Life on Earth will disapper long before that when the internal engine (the Earth's core) cools.
There is no design here... it is a random occurance of objects moving about in space. We don't know about life on other planets in the whole expanse of time... but, there is a good probability that somewgere else in the Universe, there is a right sized planet orbiting around a right sized star at some time in the future or the past that has the right ingredients for life to occur.
ADD: "The DVD does a great job in showing how evolution gives no account for the origin of genetic info for either protein or the flagellar motor assembly. It seems clear to me that a law of probability points to creation being the cause of such sophisticated life. I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind."
...
That entire Intelligent Design theory about the flagellar motor was dispelled in the case where I.D. went on trial in Dover, PA. Remember? That's the place that Pat Robertson said the people should suffer the wrath of God for their decision.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/wm/3416_08_220.html
...
"I challenge any evolutionist to view the DVD with an open mind."
I suggest that you take your own advice here.
Hail, Hail!!!
You are so not under my skin. I find you laughable.
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My work here is done.
Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.
Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.
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Matt. 6:5-6
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
i had a friend and bandmate who believed jesus wanted him to quit playing guitar... which he was INCREDIBLE at... so he left the band and literally started talking like he had been brainwashed... he would say how worried he was about my soul and get all self righteous about religious and how glad he was he found jesus... :rolleyes:
mikesguitar... you started this thread asking for OPINIONS... dont turn it into a debate... use it as an opportunity to see something beyond your narrow little POV
if not then take your show over to Africa where you and your missionary friends can continue the christian cultural crusades
http://seanbriceart.com/
It becomes an issue when someone wants to legislate faith onto me... on to any other American.
When Christian (or any other religion) wants to force a voodoo science, such as 'Intelligent Design' (a.k.a. 'Creationism'), as a legitimate science in our schools... then, it becomes an issue with me.
The same goes when one religion tries to legislate a law based upon their religious affiliation that we all must obey. It becomes an issue with me. And if you are an American, it should become and issue with you. Any theocracy is not welcomed here... we have several examples of theocracies in this world. You need not look any further than the Middle East.
Hail, Hail!!!
It has design written all over it?
That's a highly subjective view, you start from the assumption that complexity equals divine creation. Why?
I sincerely hope you're not actually comparing physical cosmology to putting a watch in a bag and banging on it with a hammer. Because if you do you might as well admit that you aren't knowledgable about the creation of planets from a scientific view. So again, why can complexity only be a attribute of god?
Darwinism is outdated in an advanced scientific era.
No one claims Darwin proved something, that his work is a finished one. Of course, scientists will discover new things about human cells, or basically about mankind. That doesn't dismiss the theory of evolution at all. Furthermore, what exactly would replace the theory of evolution? Creationism? Intelligent Design? Hate to burst your bubble but those are not even considered science. Not because of what their theories are but how they came to their theories, how they research their theories... They go against the scientific method. They start from an idea (the bible, creation) and then find evidence (or simply make up evidence) to support their theory. They dismiss what doesn't fit in.
So? Evidence of what exactly? The only thing that is evidence of; is exactly that. Some cities, buildings etc. really existed. There are millions of works of fiction which have actual places or buildings in them. Doesn't prove anything.
You're actually using this as an example? Explain to me how that proves anything or can even be considered evidence.
No contradictions have been proven, but the point of proving them anyway? Has the bible been proven?
I could go on and will if you want me too.
Anyway, glad you're still posting. I was afraid that all of us atheists might have scared you away
naděje umírá poslední
I can.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/transitional.html
"In 2004, a field crew digging in the Canadian Arctic unearthed the fossil remains of a half-fish, half-amphibian that would all but confirm paleontologists' theories about how land-dwelling tetrapods (four-limbed animals, including us) evolved from their fish ancestors. The animal was a so-called lobe-finned fish that lived about 375 million years ago. Named Tiktaalik rosae by its discoverers, it is a classic example of a transitional form, one that bridges the evolutionary gap between two quite different types of animal. In this slide show, see this and four other well-known fossil transitions, which clearly indicate Darwinian evolution in action.—Rima Chaddha
Add:
http://www.devoniantimes.org/Order/re-tiktaalik.html
Hail, Hail!!!
http://static.flickr.com/26/104902902_f620c5ebd2_o.jpg
http://seanbriceart.com/
"DINOSAURS - Every natural history museum in the world today displays large dinosaur models. Their defensive teeth, spikes and claws are often shown extended. As evidence of the prior existence of these kinds of creatures we have a myriad of bones found on multiple continents, footprints buried in sedimentary layers and ... legends. All over the world people remember the dangerous dragons of old. But they slowly went extinct. Men feared and hated them. Stories of ancient encounters with dinosaurs/dragons are found in China, Thailand, including other parts of Asia, and in Roman, Russian, Germanic, Anglo-Saxon, North, South, and Central America, and across Africa too. Are we so much smarter and more academically inclined than all of our ancestors that we should reject all of their historical records - just to prop up temporary evolutionary theory?
Carbon-14 dating of carbon buried in the same layer with dragon bones helps to confirm that they are really only thousands of years old. The myth-ions and myth-ions of years never happened; only in the past 200 years has it become fashionable to forget our true ancient history (of thousands of years) in favor of God-hating (or: "bumbling-inherently-weak-god") evolution. Evolution requires the belief in long epochs of supposed time and chance improvements.
Dragons and sea monsters have become mostly extinct prior to our modern era. By the way, there is evidence that they grew much larger prior to the Great Flood. Just as humans lived much longer (Genesis records ages of some people to have reached over 900 years!) so a reptile ... living much longer then could have grown much larger before the Flood - which is indeed what we see in the fossil record of the pre-Flood world.
Humans and lions live on Earth at the same time today. But we live in different places. Porpoises will ram sharks that come into their waters. So naturally then they also live in different places - while living at the same time. Why couldn't humans and dinosaurs have lived at the same time? They'd probably keep mostly separate and then get buried separately if there was a catastrophe, but this could be theoretically possible, correct? There are at least two places known today with human and dinosaur tracks in the same sedimentary layer: one is in Paluxy, Texas, the other in Eastern Turkmenistan. Plus we have the legends, from all inhabited continents mind you, which should not be automatically discounted. (text by P.A.) "
Ref. http://www.creationism.org/topbar/dinosaurs.htm
Hail, Hail!!!
Opinion...?
At first I'd be pissed a friend would send this to me...then I'd hit the delete button....
It would be interesting to find out what the friend had done to deserve a lecture like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5qOS4Q39sg
Why is it always argument by analogy on this topic? Why not address the specifics of what we are talking about?
The origin of the universe, not the tendancy of a watch to remain in a non-functional state over time. The two things are not even closely comparable.
The origin of the universe:
Tough to figure out? Yes.
Likely to be completely solved by physics? Probably not, unless we can exist for a very long time, and even then... who knows?
Resolved by introducing a divine creator? Absolutely not. A creator is inherently more complex than the created. The question just becomes bigger. And if you assign an 'infinity clause' to the creator, why not apply Occam's Razor and apply the same clause to the universe (or some cyclic form of it). Cuts an entire concept out of the equation creating a far more parsimonious explanation.
Believe what you want, just don't assume that your explanation is somehow simpler or more elegant than others.
You are propagating one of the most common misconceptions about 'missing link' fossils. That they are not normal fossils. They are. Every one of those billions of normal fossils that you mention are missing links.
Natural selection rarely favours major changes. Instead the theory of evolution describes a very long and gradual series of small changes. Nautilus shells are thought to be currently undergoing a period of rapid evolutionary diversification. And trust me... It aint that exciting! Come back in a few thousand years and you won't be able to see any difference.
It is simplistic and naive to expect fossils to be found that are half way between all of the major groups of organisms. It is also naive to imagine that, given what we know about the low probability of fossil formation, a complete fossil record actually exists, let alone can be found. But enough exists for an accurate, albeit improving understanding of life's history, especially when coupled with genetic evidence. And more specimens will be found, and our understanding of previous evolutionary pathways will continue to improve.
By all means, be happy in your own beliefs about evolution. But I hope that you find the time to do some reading so that you are no longer sprouting misconceptions. After all, evolution is entirely falsifiable. As biologist J.B.S. Haldane once argued, all it would take to disprove evolution is a 'fossilised rabit in the Precambriun'.
I do my own interpreting of the Bible. I don't rely on the Church. Anyway, if you take the time to throroughly study the other religions you'll find they have irreconcilable contradictions. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm not trying to have an attitude. I'm just putting some info out there in case someone wants to check it out, which I believe would benefit them.
I don't really see how the info in the DVD could be disproved but I'll check that link out when I get some time.
They go against the scientific method. They start from an idea (the bible, creation) and then find evidence (or simply make up evidence) to support their theory. They dismiss what doesn't fit in.
The info in the DVD, Unlocking the Mysteries of Life, doesn't start with that presupposition at all. Rather, those scientists came to the point of being open minded to a creator after research which lead them to believe the earth and life were created.
http://seanbriceart.com/
I'm just curious what your refutation of this is.