I don't deny that it happened, just that certain aspects seem to have been exaggerated beyond what actually did happen. That;s all
Unfortunately asking a question still seems to be illegal for some people though. Many small minded people on this forum have launched racist attacks towards me for it.
I am certainly not small minded.
I was asking about the Revisionists and their idea of what really happened during the holocaust...oh sorry the JEWISH holocaust to them.
They are denying that 6 million jews were murdered. They estimate it to be about 1 million and not because they were gassed and burned.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
I am certainly not small minded.
I was asking about the Revisionists and their idea of what really happened during the holocaust...oh sorry the JEWISH holocaust to them.
They are denying that 6 million jews were murdered. They estimate it to be about 1 million and not because they were gassed and burned.
That! I will agree on. Right from the start you said you're all for finding the truth and I'd never forgotten it.
I don't think it has anything to do with anti semitism... just a different perspective. :(
I don't deny that it happened, just that certain aspects seem to have been exaggerated beyond what actually did happen. That;s all
Unfortunately asking a question still seems to be illegal for some people though. Many small minded people on this forum have launched racist attacks towards me for it.
If you can show me some proof of exaggerations I'd love to take a look at that, but from everything I've seen and read on the subject I'm not sure how open-minded I'd be about it.
Unfortunately for you, Holocaust denial is primarily associated with antisemitism and it always will be. It's not right for people to make racist accusations towards you for just asking a question, but I hope you understand why they get so defensive about the subject.
“Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It’s hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It’s round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you’ve got about a hundred years here. There’s only one rule that I know of, babies — ‘God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.’” - Kurt Vonnegut
I am certainly not small minded.
I was asking about the Revisionists and their idea of what really happened during the holocaust...oh sorry the JEWISH holocaust to them.
They are denying that 6 million jews were murdered. They estimate it to be about 1 million and not because they were gassed and burned.
They all know who they are already....lots in the moving train.
There does seem to be an somewhat of issue with the numbers killed. I think it's off by a about a million is the common understanding that is easily seen....some may claim more discrepancy than that.
I think in situations like this, everything gets a little bit embellished somewhat, and it happens just as a matter of how people are in recanting stories.
Nobody could question anything at the time, so it was all about accept what you're told or else. That situation alone is prime breeding ground for misinformation.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If you can show me some proof of exaggerations I'd love to take a look at that, but from everything I've seen and read on the subject I'm not sure how open-minded I'd be about it.
Unfortunately for you, Holocaust denial is primarily associated with antisemitism and it always will be. It's not right for people to make racist accusations towards you for just asking a question, but I hope you understand why they get so defensive about the subject.
I do, unfortunately it's easier to slander someone than have to think about it, and many choose this route.....even still..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If you can show me some proof of exaggerations I'd love to take a look at that, but from everything I've seen and read on the subject I'm not sure how open-minded I'd be about it.
that's my feeling too. and as with anything, one must consider the source. just as information provided by a jewish organization could be construed as exaggerated, then the same must be applied to other groups that have other motives.
and i'm far from small-minded. i'm open to hearing facts based in science and objectivity.
Well, I never claimed to be an expert I only know what I've been told and led to believe, a bit like you lot actually....maybe your books and documentaries were superior to the ones I saw
tis not really about just believing what were told. if something sounds fantastic, as in the case of 6 million jews and others being slaughtered, and no one knowing, then thats something that has to be questioned. you think how is it possible that this was going on and no one knew. hitler was being watched but no one knew what he was actually doing. i couldnt accept that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
tis not really about just believing what were told. if something sounds fantastic, as in the case of 6 million jews and others being slaughtered, and no one knowing, then thats something that has to be questioned. you think how is it possible that this was going on and no one knew. hitler was being watched but no one knew what he was actually doing. i couldnt accept that.
Well as long as you don't accept it then.
I guess maybe I was led to believe the man in the street maybe wasn't aware, or maybe wasn't aware of the full horror until it was revealed to them. Sure I understand that the governments knew, people only know what they're told though.....whatever, I'm not nearly genned up enough for you to nit pick an argument with on this, so stop stressing.
Seriously....wtf?
I am all for finding the truth and sorting through propaganda, but these folks are loco.
I would like to wrangle them all up and take them through a tour of the Holocaust Museum in DC and then tell me what happened during WWII is being exaggerated.
have them go to Dachau outside of Munich, Germany. It has 100,000 pictures posted all over showing the inhuman testing they did the stoves....never forget the day I spend there or at Auschwitz when I was in Poland.
I could care less the numbers, 6 million, 4 million, 10, the shit they did to other human beings was beyond sick, beyond description, beyond imagination...
freakin cowards
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
edit: nevermind in general haha i don't feel like arguing about this...
it seems very obvious to me that the holocaust DID happen, and to say otherwise is pretty ignorant.
It's like the wicked witch thing cooking hansel and gretl.
How much wood would be required to cremate hundreds of thousands of people? (per site) totally insane amounts...
There would be axes, and saws littering the camps unless they used their teeth like beavers.
besides that...it's slow as heck (many many times longer?) compared to just dropping a person in a pit. If that was the plan to "speed it up"...well...
Not to mention there wouldn't be a tree left standing around the place for several miles...and where's all the tree stumps left over? Did they uproot the trees as well?
It's things like this that get people wondering, and rightly so.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
So?
Seriously?
These people are claiming there were no crematoriums, no torture and that life was pretty cool at the old Birkenau. Why those crazy Jews had variety shows, were smiling while they did their chores and even went to the swimming pool afterwards for a quick cool down.
And there certainly were not Nazis throwing babies in the air and shooting them down like Elie tells us he saw. He is just a lying sack of deluded garbage.
Yeah, so? And yes, I'm serious.
They are asking questions. These questions have answers. Either the revisionists are right or wrong. If they can provide evidence for their claims that things were exxagerated, I think more people should look into it.
If they can't back up their claims, nothing changes.
So, really, I don't see the big deal here. This is a fringe group, a small minority that are not taken seriously by the majority of the world.
If they have proof of their claims I can only hope the world will look at it. This issue is so controversial investigation has become illegal unless you agree with the consensus. That's just plain wrong. On top of that, everyone who has valid questions is being called nazi, racist...
And that's my problem with this whole thing. The holocaust, whether 10 million or a million people were killed, is an historic event. It should be open to investigation like any other historic event. There's absolutely no harm in that. There's no harm in asking questions, posing theories... No harm. It can only be good, it can only help us understand what happened better. But no, in several countries revisionism is illegal. That is insane. There's no other word for it. Why the hell would anyone make it illegal to question the holocaust?
Seriously, can you give me an answer to that question?
How can we ever find out more about the holocaust when the minute you express doubt about certain aspects you are labelled nazi, racist, fascist, anti-semite... and on top of that, you may even risk jail time. It takes a brave historian to put his reputation and career on the line like that. Especially because many revisionists are anti-semite.
I don't think we know everything about the holocaust there is to know and sadly enough the complete truth may never be revealed because people judge revisionists simply because they do what any historian does, the subject of their study is, however, a controversial one.
So what did they cremate all the people with anyways?
what was the combustible?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
on the last page you'll find actual letters from Churchill from 1942 where he has sent Eisenhower pics of a concentration camp.
well, you say 'they knew', and gave me your homework on Winston Churchill addressing parliament and other allied leaders on the subject of Jews being deported and families being separated. I'm far away from being able to rub shoulders intellectually with you guys but the point I was making was that the actual full horror of the Holocaust wasn't really realised until the liberation, at least not to the vast majority of people. And now that I've had half an hour spare to look into it more, it seems my point isn't quite as preposterous as yourself and Cate seem to find it (wow, good job your head didn't 'actually' explode eh Cate :rolleyes: ). In the article I've posted underneath you can read about a member of the SS who was an allied spy who worked on developing the Zyklon B from June 1942, and visited one of the camps in August the same year and witnessed for the first time the full extent of what was happening to people. He was shocked beyond comprehension, and tried to contact the allies but became frustrated that nothing was done, and this was half way through WWII.
So, I guess it seems that the full extent of what was actually happening may not have actually been known to everyone throughout Europe and the world at that time, then again maybe I'm wrong.
Comments
I was asking about the Revisionists and their idea of what really happened during the holocaust...oh sorry the JEWISH holocaust to them.
They are denying that 6 million jews were murdered. They estimate it to be about 1 million and not because they were gassed and burned.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
That! I will agree on. Right from the start you said you're all for finding the truth and I'd never forgotten it.
I don't think it has anything to do with anti semitism... just a different perspective. :(
If you can show me some proof of exaggerations I'd love to take a look at that, but from everything I've seen and read on the subject I'm not sure how open-minded I'd be about it.
Unfortunately for you, Holocaust denial is primarily associated with antisemitism and it always will be. It's not right for people to make racist accusations towards you for just asking a question, but I hope you understand why they get so defensive about the subject.
They all know who they are already....lots in the moving train.
There does seem to be an somewhat of issue with the numbers killed. I think it's off by a about a million is the common understanding that is easily seen....some may claim more discrepancy than that.
I think in situations like this, everything gets a little bit embellished somewhat, and it happens just as a matter of how people are in recanting stories.
Nobody could question anything at the time, so it was all about accept what you're told or else. That situation alone is prime breeding ground for misinformation.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I do, unfortunately it's easier to slander someone than have to think about it, and many choose this route.....even still..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
and i'm far from small-minded. i'm open to hearing facts based in science and objectivity.
tis not really about just believing what were told. if something sounds fantastic, as in the case of 6 million jews and others being slaughtered, and no one knowing, then thats something that has to be questioned. you think how is it possible that this was going on and no one knew. hitler was being watched but no one knew what he was actually doing. i couldnt accept that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well as long as you don't accept it then.
I guess maybe I was led to believe the man in the street maybe wasn't aware, or maybe wasn't aware of the full horror until it was revealed to them. Sure I understand that the governments knew, people only know what they're told though.....whatever, I'm not nearly genned up enough for you to nit pick an argument with on this, so stop stressing.
have them go to Dachau outside of Munich, Germany. It has 100,000 pictures posted all over showing the inhuman testing they did the stoves....never forget the day I spend there or at Auschwitz when I was in Poland.
I could care less the numbers, 6 million, 4 million, 10, the shit they did to other human beings was beyond sick, beyond description, beyond imagination...
freakin cowards
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
it seems very obvious to me that the holocaust DID happen, and to say otherwise is pretty ignorant.
It's like the wicked witch thing cooking hansel and gretl.
How much wood would be required to cremate hundreds of thousands of people? (per site) totally insane amounts...
There would be axes, and saws littering the camps unless they used their teeth like beavers.
besides that...it's slow as heck (many many times longer?) compared to just dropping a person in a pit. If that was the plan to "speed it up"...well...
Not to mention there wouldn't be a tree left standing around the place for several miles...and where's all the tree stumps left over? Did they uproot the trees as well?
It's things like this that get people wondering, and rightly so.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Yeah, so? And yes, I'm serious.
They are asking questions. These questions have answers. Either the revisionists are right or wrong. If they can provide evidence for their claims that things were exxagerated, I think more people should look into it.
If they can't back up their claims, nothing changes.
So, really, I don't see the big deal here. This is a fringe group, a small minority that are not taken seriously by the majority of the world.
If they have proof of their claims I can only hope the world will look at it. This issue is so controversial investigation has become illegal unless you agree with the consensus. That's just plain wrong. On top of that, everyone who has valid questions is being called nazi, racist...
And that's my problem with this whole thing. The holocaust, whether 10 million or a million people were killed, is an historic event. It should be open to investigation like any other historic event. There's absolutely no harm in that. There's no harm in asking questions, posing theories... No harm. It can only be good, it can only help us understand what happened better. But no, in several countries revisionism is illegal. That is insane. There's no other word for it. Why the hell would anyone make it illegal to question the holocaust?
Seriously, can you give me an answer to that question?
How can we ever find out more about the holocaust when the minute you express doubt about certain aspects you are labelled nazi, racist, fascist, anti-semite... and on top of that, you may even risk jail time. It takes a brave historian to put his reputation and career on the line like that. Especially because many revisionists are anti-semite.
I don't think we know everything about the holocaust there is to know and sadly enough the complete truth may never be revealed because people judge revisionists simply because they do what any historian does, the subject of their study is, however, a controversial one.
naděje umírá poslední
naděje umírá poslední
what was the combustible?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
And human fat according to this article.
http://www.mazal.org/archive/documents/Tauber/Tauber01.htm
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
So, I guess it seems that the full extent of what was actually happening may not have actually been known to everyone throughout Europe and the world at that time, then again maybe I'm wrong.
http://history1900s.about.com/od/holocaust/a/gerstein.htm