Looking for details about PJ's previous live taping and sharing policy

hbrowne

Hi guys,

I am looking for some info about concrete policies that PJ has shared over the years as it relates to live taping and sharing of their music by the fans.

It seems to me that in keeping with the punk rock DIY ethic that PJ has always seemed to espouse and embody for me that they never minded fans sharing and trading live boots.

Recently the Ten Club has twice contacted me to remove live EV solo recording mp3s off my blog, which were posted in such an open spirit of excitement as to what he was doing, as part of reviews. This leaves me with a really negative, sour taste in my mouth, so much so that it makes me consider not writing about him anymore. I've been a fan for so SO long, a vocal fanclub member, and one of the only folks in the indie music blogging world still repping for the boys. It seems EV may be leading up for a commercial release of his current touring, and as such they are actively expunging the web of all traces of fan recordings.

Can anyone cite for me concrete examples of a more liberal sharing policy in the past (non-commercial recordings, just wondering about fan recordings)?
Or is this sea change all in my mind?

Thanks guys. Rock on.
Heather Browne
Fuel/Friends
http://fuelfriends.blogspot.com

Dissident67

I don't know all the rules but here are some:
Ed Ved solo shows are not to be shared at all, so don't post links here
DVDs are not to be shared at all, so don't post links here
Any boot that is currently being sold can not be shared this includes all 2008 recordings both officially released and audience recordings, benaroya hall, and live on two legs.

hbrowne

--

red mos

The pj trading policy has always worked liked this:

Fans are allowed to bring hand held taping devices and record the shows. All "Unoffical" pj boots are allowed to be traded openly on the boards via the fanbase.

Official recordings such as Benaroya hall, and official boots (IE 2008 shows) are NOT to be traded because they can be purchased through 10 club and retail (Benaroya Hall for retail). Once the 2008 boots go off of the market and out of stock, they may be posted here and traded freely. Same goes for all the previous years. To my knowledge, Boots 2000-2007 are now out of print and may be traded freely.

For EV solo tour:

It was clearly indicated via tenclub that Ed's solo boots were not to be recorded, not even camera were permitted, but people still find ways to get the stuff in.
The sharing of Ed's solo stuff is strictly a no no on this board. People have been banned for even inquiring about obtaining a recording.

Some others things I can remember:

No profit from recording trading and no two for one trade.
Blanks and postage trades are fine and an even trade a show for a show is A- OK.
DVD trades are not permitted I don't believe, but I'm not completely sure. They are not permitted, but people have traded them on here in the past. So, I'm not sure on that one.

Hope this helps.

hbrowne

red mos wrote:

The pj trading policy has always worked liked this: Fans are allowed to bring hand held taping devices and record the shows. All "Unoffical" pj boots are allowed to be traded openly on the boards via the fanbase.

////

For EV solo tour:
It was clearly indicated via tenclub that Ed's solo boots were not to be recorded ///
The sharing of Ed's solo stuff is strictly a no no on this board. People have been banned for even inquiring about obtaining a recording.

Thanks red mos. That kind off thing is exactly what I was wondering about, to see if my memory was correct.

How do you guys feel about this shift? From such an open, liberal, fan-friendly policy that encouraged fandom to a discouraging, blatantly commercial one?

I think it really makes me sad.

HB

Dissident67

The Eddie shows were meant to be very intimate personal and special shows, i was at one and was totally blown away. it was one of the greatest concert experiences of my life but I still am not really sad that the boots can't be as freely exchanged because it was a personal experience i will never forget, so i guess i don't really mind that the boots can't be shared. That doesn't mean you can't find them though, you just have to look hard enough if you really want them.

hbrowne

Dissident67 wrote:

The Eddie shows were meant to be very intimate personal and special shows....

I strongly question the logic that says recording a show makes it less special.

I feel like that's what they tell us to make us a) feel special for "getting to go" so we won't complain and b) primed to open our wallets when the "Very Special Evening With Eddie Vedder" is released on CD. What about the folks who can't travel to the shows but still love the music? It seemed to me like that's what fan-recorded boots were always for, and did well.

Ooh, I'm getting so jaded! Eddie, I never thought this would happen to me and you!

HB

washedinblack91

ugh. all the bad talk about ed and his policy of not sharing any video or audio is kind of annoying me. no one knows why he did this. who's to say it was even his idea to do it? what if it was some legal thing he couldn't avoid? him of all people shouldn't and wouldn't care about such things as sharing boots. maybe the fact that he was playing mostly covers and pj songs he didn't want anyone having videos of songs he can't take full credit for? and the songs that WERE his was part of a movie soundtrack. who's to say that maybe there's some legal issues with that? or, maybe he thought it was too intimate an experience and that it would take away from those who went. who knows...
now, im not saying i know anything about legal stuff or that i know what i'm talking about. i just know that people should give him the benefit of the doubt because we're not him and don't know his reasoning for his policy. i also know that just because he has his policy, it shouldn't take it away how you or anyone feels about his music and etc. and that you should still write about him in your blog if inspiration strikes you

hbrowne

washedinblack91 wrote:

no one knows why he did this. who's to say it was even his idea to do it? what if it was some legal thing he couldn't avoid? /// maybe the fact that he was playing mostly covers and pj songs he didn't want anyone having videos of songs he can't take full credit for?

It is an interesting theory, washedinblack, and I do really appreciate your optimism and looking for the good in people. It's heartening and I wish I weren't getting jaded.

But. Pearl Jam has always played cover songs of all stripes in their live repertoire, right? He's EV. i think he can kind of do what he wants? It's not like we're talking about some fledgling naive artist who is mercilessly at the behest of The Music Industry. Right? I'd bet on him having say over this one, based on my correspondence with the Ten Club.

HB

the wolf

washedinblack91 wrote:

ugh. all the bad talk about ed and his policy of not sharing any video or audio is kind of annoying me. no one knows why he did this. who's to say it was even his idea to do it? what if it was some legal thing he couldn't avoid? him of all people shouldn't and wouldn't care about such things as sharing boots. maybe the fact that he was playing mostly covers and pj songs he didn't want anyone having videos of songs he can't take full credit for? and the songs that WERE his was part of a movie soundtrack. who's to say that maybe there's some legal issues with that? or, maybe he thought it was too intimate an experience and that it would take away from those who went. who knows...
now, im not saying i know anything about legal stuff or that i know what i'm talking about. i just know that people should give him the benefit of the doubt because we're not him and don't know his reasoning for his policy. i also know that just because he has his policy, it shouldn't take it away how you or anyone feels about his music and etc. and that you should still write about him in your blog if inspiration strikes you

pretty close to my exact thoughts.

as to the OP. i dig ur blog. dont stop writing about the boys.

red mos

Also regarding the EV solo tour policy:

I remember Kat had come in and reponded to the thread saying that, " It is possible that Ed just wanted these shows to be an intimate special event".

I'm not sure on copyright and legal issues for the EV shows. I really believe honestly that Kat's answer was the best reponse.

As stated before, PJ has covered songs and legally had them on boots, so I'm not really sure copyright is an issue. However, going back to Gorge 2005, the download version of Gorge 2005 bought via 10 club did not contain "I won't back down" by Tom Petty. By the time the box set was released the physical show discs did.

Congrats to all that got to attend an EV solo show. I am so jealous. I wish I could have attended. It's just to hard for me to travel financially, and well when the band doesn't like playing here, I am left out in the cold. Oh well, I got the soundtrack.

washedinblack91

red mos wrote:

I'm not sure on copyright and legal issues for the EV shows.

me neither, but after reading a bit of 5 vs 1 i realized theres more to their shows and what not than i ever realized. i didnt think people had to watch their backs so much! :eek: everything's a legal issue!

and watch all the nay-sayers get all shocked when the 10c announces some fricken awesome thing with the eV solo shows and all the questions about the policy will be answered *hopes desperately!*

bazzer

hbrowne wrote:

How do you guys feel about this shift? From such an open, liberal, fan-friendly policy that encouraged fandom to a discouraging, blatantly commercial one?

How is it blatantly commercial? I haven't seen Ed's shows for sale?

PJ_Lukin

In my humble opinion.

Ed did not allow any recording of any kind, no pictures, audio or video for a reason. I think it is possible he was trying to make these shows intimate, between his audience and him. More of a one of a kind experience for both.

However, if Ed or anyone else in the band, decides that now is the time to maybe, reap some benefit from their 20+ years of work, so be it. Who are we to say it is wrong?

Niko80

Things have definately changed..

hbrowne

PJ_Lukin wrote:

//....If Ed or anyone else in the band, decides that now is the time to maybe, reap some benefit from their 20+ years of work, so be it. Who are we to say it is wrong?

Maybe reap some benefit? Remember how they are gazillionaires? I mean, I know they aren't in it for that, but they've been reaping benefits from me and hundreds of thousands of other fans for years and years. The fan bootlegs always seemed like an open-hearted way of giving back to the die-hard crazies (like I have been). It has seemed consistent with what I considered to be their overall philosophy in the past. I've been told that the Ten Club can "neither confirm nor deny" a commercial release in the making for the Ed solo shows. I could be wrong, but to me that sounds like they are planning to release it commercially at some point, and that their vigorous efforts to wipe all traces of boots from the market (I mean, down to contacting your smallest joe schmoe) are to that end. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I will be happily so if that turns out not to be the case.

HB

hbrowne

Niko80 wrote:

Things have definately changed..

Yeah, Niko. I think they have.
Sad.

HB

augustwest

who knows why ev decided to have 10c send out cease and desist orders...it's rather harsh if you ask me...especially sending two to the OP of this thread. guess ev just doesn't want the publicity?

said before and ill say it again...this whole situation has nothing to do with ev doing cover tunes and/or rights to itw songs...and no one will be able to convince me otherwise(go ahead and try)

also worth noting is that ev shows and pj shows are a different thing completely...last i checked 10c was not sending cease and desist orders to audio pj 2008 shows posted on dime and other torrents sites...UNLIKE ev shows that got posted to the www

this slight adjustment hasn't made me any less of a ev fan but it has made me come to realize that if anyone owns a full recording of montreal nite#2 ill gladly pay for it...if i have to...bring back the old days...i've paid for bootlegs before and i'll do it again.

iamica

I can't remember which show it was, but I remember Ed in one of the early '90s shows saying something like, "Our next album is coming out, just record it and make copies and pass them out to your friends, we don't care." I'm sure he was probably being sarcastic, but it seems like the recording policy was different back then, more of a free trade kind of thing. I think bootlegs for profit were still looked down upon, but it was OK to record for personal use and/or trade. Not so much anymore.
Still, they have more of a lenient policy than most bands. Who else puts out official recordings of practically every show for the past 4 tours?

Niko80

hbrowne wrote:

Yeah, Niko. I think they have.
Sad.

HB

Yes, it is sad.
I feel it started when the pj management shut down TVM. A friend of mine was a driving force in that team and their goal was to have all pj shows available on video for fans around the world. This initiative was taken straight out of the punk rock ethics book that Eddie held by his heart and lived by.

My buddy got a court warning and they shut it down.. That was that. When this happened my buddy was extremely sad. All they had to do was ask, he said. He didnt understand the sudden court warning and experienced it as a really unpleasant attack.

These guys put their lives into making these shows available for us and pj did support it. Why couldn't they have said 'thanks for the years of hard work boys, and thanks for helping fans all over the world getting their hands on the good shit. Sorry to tell you this but we are changing our policies and you from now on you guys needs to stop'. But no, just a cease and decease letter and a cold shoulder.

Maybe I am being to harsh, but I feel this was a change from day to night. Still love the music and the band though. Things change, people change, but things could definately have been handled a bit better.

wolfbear

Things are definitely different with the EV boots/shows, but it certainly was well publicized. No recordings, no cameras, period. We may never know why.
I'm with others here though, that I love your blog and hope you continue it.