modern art = shit

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  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Even more simply, anyone who's ever designed a hotel lobby in relaxing pure white with splashes of other colours, can thank Rothko for his influence.

    indirectly i assume... i asked 43 hotel lobby designers about Rothko earlier on and they all said "shit"

    i then asked the baker around the corner... he has bad cataracts... "hey, paint me a sponge cake?"

    i got this
    http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/2006summer/ISP213H/art/ModernImages/abstractionists/ROTHKO03.JPG

    its a battenburg apparently :)


    i then showed him this:-
    http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/picture-of-month/graphics/large/hockney.jpg


    he liked it.. but was too busy with trying to lck the battenburg to comment.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    Last night I went to the Flight to Mars show and since it was a CCFA benefit, I decided a little potty humor would be fitting so I wore my 'Toilet Festival' t-shirt.

    It had me thinking back to the festival which was a celebration of the grand opening of a new public comfort station in a very small town. They had this toilet paper ART contest.

    Maybe some would refuse to say that art was shit, but it was for it. :D

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-63401069.html
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    dunkman wrote:
    indirectly i assume... i asked 43 hotel lobby designers about Rothko earlier on and they all said "shit"

    And so did 100 rockstars when I played them the blues of Robert Johnson. :p
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    And so did 100 rockstars when I played them the blues of Robert Johnson. :p

    but those 100 rockstars didnt claim it was 'art' nor did they flounce it up with words so long they beat everyone else at scrabble... all 100 of those rockstars would also express their debt to the early blues...

    Jimmy Page did.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    dunkman wrote:
    but those 100 rockstars didnt claim it was 'art' nor did they flounce it up with words so long they beat everyone else at scrabble... all 100 of those rockstars would also express their debt to the early blues...

    Jimmy Page did.

    I know but the fact is, they still might call it 'shit'.. as was your point. Any great interior designer, especially on the scale of a hotel lobby designer, would recognise their debt to the New York school of artists (even I hate that term!)
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I know they are :) I wanted them to be judged for how they look, not for the fact that one is a crappy mass-produced evangelist pile of poopoo and the other is a crucifix in wee. And Jamie fell for it :p

    Oh and also, I wanted to show that, though you couldn't have painted the Kinkade one, that is a good thing, since it is horrific and as far from art as you can get.
    Bravo to you..you tried to make someone look stupid. There are a handful of people on here that try to do that and they wind up making themselves look like pretentious windbags.
    Kincade is as far from art as you can get? I don't care for his work but that is a ridiculous statement, don't you think.
    And you knowing the story of him and his work and how it is in shopping malls all over the world doesn't influence your opinion of the work??? I don't think so. You seem pretty whipped up about it.
    Golf clap for you.
    I suppose if it were discovered that Rothko enjoyed the work of Kincade or the lovely paint-by-numbers clown I showed yesterday, some opinions would change.
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    I've only seen the first Saw movie, and I never bothered seeing Hostel. We really are all on the same page on this one. ;)
    So, next question: by subverting the meaning of the clown - from happy to sad - have we made him into a piece of conceptual art? :p
    Well since some of the earliest clowns were court jesters and mimes...even as far back as the Romans...I would think their original intent was not to be portrayed as the sad, drunk, mean clowns of the early Barnum and Bailey era.
    So, no dice on the conceptual art theory Rhino. :p;)

    One for you:
    http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/24/the_sad_clown.jpg
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Bravo to you..you tried to make someone look stupid. There are a handful of people on here that try to do that and they wind up making themselves look like pretentious windbags.
    Kincade is as far from art as you can get? I don't care for his work but that is a ridiculous statement, don't you think.
    And you knowing the story of him and his work and how it is in shopping malls all over the world doesn't influence your opinion of the work??? I don't think so. You seem pretty whipped up about it.
    Golf clap for you.
    I suppose if it were discovered that Rothko enjoyed the work of Kincade or the lovely paint-by-numbers clown I showed yesterday, some opinions would change.
    I already said, my opinions on his works in themselves and his reasons for creating them are seperate but related. Clearly a few people here don't seem to realise that appreciation of art is subjective here and I am not one of those people and as such, am not the one indulging in pretension. No, I don't think my statement was ridiculous. For ME, Kinkade's work is exploitative trash. Did you see the painting I posted of the soldier coming home from Iraq? It's republican, middle-American propaganda, not art. In my opinion. As for your angered reaction to my "trying to make someone look stupid", read the following posts. I wasn't trying to do that at all, I just wanted to see if Jamie would appreciate the picture on it's own merits before he formed an opinion when he heard that it was a photo of a crucifix in a jar of urine. I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid here, I'm just trying to voice my opinions without being called "pretentious", "elitist", "pseudo-intellectual" and a bunch of other terms that have been directed at people in this thread just because they don't agree with the original post. Please accept my humblest apologies if I have made an error in thinking I have the right to do that, otherwise, quit stirring shit up. Jamie knew I meant no offence.

    And yes, if Rothko liked Kinkade, my opinions would change. My opinions of Rothko, not Kinkade. The idea that I would buy that bullshit because some hipster, fashionable artist liked him is pretty offensive to me. I think Kinkade's work is more grotesque and shallow than any Turner-nominated conceptual crap involving dead things in embalming fluid. Only Damien Hirst's latest comes anywhere near.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    jamie uk wrote:
    Clowns have generally been accepted, in our modern age, as being scarey, terrifying murderous characters, perverted, twisted lunatics. Quite how we, as a society, eventually accepted that portrayal is not clear to me, I remember them riding around in tiny cars, doors falling off, buckets of water...oh they were the greatest. Charlie Carolie, what happened to your legacy ?
    Why do we now fear, and hold in general suspicion, that which we once embraced, and fell about laughing at? When did the change come?
    Indeed, was it a change in the clowns.....or just our perception of them?
    Sideshow Bob, Crusty.......you have some answers to give.
    It was John Wayne Gacy Jr's fault.

    Him in clown costume which he wore at children's parties. Whether he wore it while committing his murders, I do not know. By the way, anyone who has a fear of clowns, this is a disturbing photo when you think of the context.

    http://www.crimesceneforum.com/images/pogo.jpg

    And this is one of the paintings he made in prison.
    http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2008-01/john-wayne-gacy-clown-art.jpg
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Why ironic?
    Did the artist sketch the paint by number board and then fill it in to be funny?
    That is funny.

    Of course it's ironic.. a famous artist exhibiting a painting by numbers piece. How is that not ironic? Please don't try to pick completely unnecessary arguments.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    jamie uk wrote:
    I......oh, I'm staying out of this :o

    You were going to have a go because I didn't remember an Andy Warhol piece, right?
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Of course it's ironic.. a famous artist exhibiting a painting by numbers piece. How is that not ironic? Please don't try to pick completely unnecessary arguments.
    :confused:

    nevermind...
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    TrixieCat wrote:
    :confused:

    nevermind...

    Sorry.. I guess you were genuinely wanting to know the answer right? :o

    Man this board is causing me problems lately of a psychological nature.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    I know but the fact is, they still might call it 'shit'.. as was your point. Any great interior designer, especially on the scale of a hotel lobby designer, would recognise their debt to the New York school of artists (even I hate that term!)

    hotel lobby designer = shit job

    i couldnt give two fucks if they think something is art or isnt... its what i think that counts... like a hotel lobby designer has studied art :D ... they watched 14 episodes of Changing Rooms and that was it... delusions of Grand(eur) Designs ... p.s. see what i did there ;)

    and a cock in a bear suit and a sheep in formaldehyde does not take any talent... Gordon Ramsay creates a more beautiful piece of 'art' every single night of his cooking career.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    dunkman wrote:
    hotel lobby designer = shit job

    i couldnt give two fucks if they think something is art or isnt... its what i think that counts... like a hotel lobby designer has studied art :D ...

    Of course a hotel lobby designer has studied art, and usually has a decent enough knowledge of it; we're not talking the Premier Inn here. Anyone who designs/constructs interiors for swanky public spaces has degrees and shit, no? :confused: I'd happily be proven wrong.
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • TrixieCat
    TrixieCat Posts: 5,756
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I already said, my opinions on his works in themselves and his reasons for creating them are seperate but related. Clearly a few people here don't seem to realise that appreciation of art is subjective here and I am not one of those people and as such, am not the one indulging in pretension. No, I don't think my statement was ridiculous. For ME, Kinkade's work is exploitative trash. Did you see the painting I posted of the soldier coming home from Iraq? It's republican, middle-American propaganda, not art. In my opinion. As for your angered reaction to my "trying to make someone look stupid", read the following posts. I wasn't trying to do that at all, I just wanted to see if Jamie would appreciate the picture on it's own merits before he formed an opinion when he heard that it was a photo of a crucifix in a jar of urine. I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid here, I'm just trying to voice my opinions without being called "pretentious", "elitist", "pseudo-intellectual" and a bunch of other terms that have been directed at people in this thread just because they don't agree with the original post. Please accept my humblest apologies if I have made an error in thinking I have the right to do that, otherwise, quit stirring shit up. Jamie knew I meant no offence.

    And yes, if Rothko liked Kinkade, my opinions would change. My opinions of Rothko, not Kinkade. The idea that I would buy that bullshit because some hipster, fashionable artist liked him is pretty offensive to me. I think Kinkade's work is more grotesque and shallow than any Turner-nominated conceptual crap involving dead things in embalming fluid. Only Damien Hirst's latest comes anywhere near.
    Explain yourself any way you like, but you set that up. A plastic Jesus in urine and a sheep in formaldehyde. Ok. You knew one person didn't appreciate the sheep. And then you put up a photograph of a jesus in urine and sit back and wait for an opinion. If someone sees the urine jesus as a painting it may be appreciated more than if someone stuck a plastic jesus in a jar of urine.
    I know you get what I am saying.
    Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
    And I don't feel right when you're gone away
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Of course a hotel lobby designer has studied art, and usually has a decent enough knowledge of it; we're not talking the Premier Inn here. Anyone who designs/constructs interiors for swanky public spaces has degrees and shit, no? :confused: I'd happily be proven wrong.

    big fucking deal :)

    one of my best friends has no degree whatsoever and has sold his company (along with his 2 brothers) for £32 million.

    my other best friend is a teacher of business studies at a Secondary School here... he's never owned nor run a business.


    having a degree in something doesnt constitute expert knowledge of another field... my wife has an honours degree in Scottish History.... she has no fucking idea on this earth where Vikings settled in Scotland
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • harmless_little_f***
    harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    dunkman wrote:
    big fucking deal :)

    one of my best friends has no degree whatsoever and has sold his company (along with his 2 brothers) for £32 million.

    my other best friend is a teacher of business studies at a Secondary School here... he's never owned nor run a business.


    having a degree in something doesnt constitute expert knowledge of another field... my wife has an honours degree in Scottish History.... she has no fucking idea on this earth where Vikings settled in Scotland

    OK, you're right of course.

    But this is sort of going in circles... Robert Plant doesn't have a degree in guitar either.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is, I'd hazzard a guess that degree or not, anyone with healthy knowledge and experience of the kind of work I'm talking about is going to know who the Abstract Expressionists/New York school were, and what they did for their line of work... They'll also know about Art Deco, Bauhaus... all that. Hopefully. You get my drift? :o
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    TrixieCat wrote:
    Explain yourself any way you like, but you set that up. A plastic Jesus in urine and a sheep in formaldehyde. Ok. You knew one person didn't appreciate the sheep. And then you put up a photograph of a jesus in urine and sit back and wait for an opinion. If someone sees the urine jesus as a painting it may be appreciated more than if someone stuck a plastic jesus in a jar of urine.
    I know you get what I am saying.
    Of course I get what you are saying. What I am disagreeing with is that I was doing it to make a fool of someone. I wasn't, I was doing it to support my point.

    Somewhere along the line in this thread, disagreeing with you, Dunk and Jamie has become equated with being an asshole and I don't quite understand why.

    Oh, and I don't see why it would make a difference if Piss Christ was a photo or a painting. I have already said that I don't believe technical skill holds any particular relevance in my appreciation of art and therefore if the image is artistic or not artistic, it shouldn't make a difference if the creation involved painstaking detail and skill or the click of a button. If the image looks the same, the effect should be the same. That is why I "set that up". So that the two pieces might be appraised visually before they were appraised conceptually. Exactly why I am now being treated as some snide, manipulative conman is beyond me. This thread is really not that important :o:p
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    OK, you're right of course.

    But this is sort of going in circles... Robert Plant doesn't have a degree in guitar either.

    Anyway, what I'm saying is, I'd hazzard a guess that degree or not, anyone with healthy knowledge and experience of the kind of work I'm talking about is going to know who the Abstract Expressionists/New York school were, and what they did for their line of work... They'll also know about Art Deco, Bauhaus... all that. Hopefully. You get my drift? :o

    robert plant is a singer... what on earth would he do with a guitar degree ;)



    as for your other point... well i dont actually... :o

    i could go into Jamie Olivers restaurant... p.s. he has no degree in cooking ;) and if his food was shit then i'd say it was shit... same with Blumenthal, Stein, Ramsay, etc... i'd hope that an artist or someone viewong art could stand alone regardless of peer pressure and decide if something worthy of their appraisal.... i could look at a Hockney painting not knowing it was his and go either YES or NO... someone tells me its a Hockney and i;d still be YES or NO..

    i sense, and i may be wrong, that you and J might be inclined to change that view? if you uncovered a rare and long lost Rothko in your attic, with no knowledge of its creator then you might be more inclined to think... "its a bit shit this.." .. rather than... ".... *gasp*.. 3 merged colours of greatness!!! " i could be wrong... :o
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.

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