Memphis 1994 New Orleans 1995 Fort Lauderdale 1996 Atlanta & Birmingham 1998 New Orleans 2000 Tampa 2003 Kissimmee 2004 New York City (x 2) 2008 East Troy (x 2) 2011 Chicago & New Orleans 2013 Hampton, Raleigh, Boston 2016 Baltimore2020 Louisville 2022 Philadelphia & Baltimore 2024
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Did one of the Reps reference that player representatives and the Players' Union have been bargaining with Owners over the issue of steroids/perfromance-enhancer testing since the years McNamee was in Toronto?
Was that an issue that contributed to the '94 strike?
.
Memphis 1994 New Orleans 1995 Fort Lauderdale 1996 Atlanta & Birmingham 1998 New Orleans 2000 Tampa 2003 Kissimmee 2004 New York City (x 2) 2008 East Troy (x 2) 2011 Chicago & New Orleans 2013 Hampton, Raleigh, Boston 2016 Baltimore2020 Louisville 2022 Philadelphia & Baltimore 2024
What happened to David Justice in all of this? Mcnamme claimed to have injected him, Justice denied it vehemently. Today, McNamee, and a few congressman made it seem like everyone McNamee named in the report admitted to doing it. But noone ever mentioned Justice.
You mean to tell me someone who describes himself as the ultimate competitor had no idea about the capabilities of HGH and steroid use. When:
(1) His own personal trainer was giving it to other clients.
(2) His own wife knew about it and used it.
(3) His best friend and travel buddy used it.
(4) He knew Jose Canseco.
(5) And in large for the past decade, he was playing in an era where there was infinite whispers about who was using and who wasn't.
If he's half the competitor he says he is, how come he didn't know? And what exactly did him and Andy talk about all that time on the road together? How could it not come up once? I just don't get it.
Somebody explain why he's remotely innocent other than he is until proven otherwise. Personally, I think this matter should be dropped. The problem is out in the open now. We know it was there. You can't just go after one person when it was embedded in the baseball culture. It's not fair to Clemens. Other than people widely being entertained under false pretenses, what was the damage really? No point in making Roger an example. Or Barry.
What happened to David Justice in all of this? Mcnamme claimed to have injected him, Justice denied it vehemently. Today, McNamee, and a few congressman made it seem like everyone McNamee named in the report admitted to doing it. But noone ever mentioned Justice.
Sometimes, even with a congressional hearing, there is no Justice.
I said it before this whole case will get worse for Clemens before it gets better.
To avoid all of this all he had to do was say I took something for some made up reason, injury whatever. This had to be done though at the very beginning when this first came out.
To me he's sold his soul now and there's no turning back.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
now that Roger has ruined his legacy....Who would you say is the best RIGHT-handed pitcher in the last 50-60 years?
My vote would have to be Greg Maddux. Looking at how Clemens got his numbers now(96 to present), makes what Maddux has done even MORE impressive to me considering he isnt a power picther.. I would put him on the list as one of the top pitchers of all time. I think it is safe to say that Maddux has never taken steroids of any sort.....discuss...:)
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
now that Roger has ruined his legacy....Who would you say is the best RIGHT-handed pitcher in the last 50-60 years?
My vote would have to be Greg Maddux. Looking at how Clemens got his numbers now(96 to present), makes what Maddux has done even MORE impressive to me considering he isnt a power picther.. I would put him on the list as one of the top pitchers of all time. I think it is safe to say that Maddux has never taken steroids of any sort.....discuss...:)
Hard to say. Maddux has pitched in the NL for his whole career. It's hard to know what he would've done in the AL. Especially during these last few years.
Hard to say. Maddux has pitched in the NL for his whole career. It's hard to know what he would've done in the AL. Especially during these last few years.
There are lots of guys in his era that have only pitched in one league and havent had near the success. I personally think he would have done well in the AL because of his control. The AL has a much bigger strikezone(imo) and it would have given him even more places to make people look frustrated. I know what you mean though. I just wouldnt take anything away from him for that reason alone.
347 wins
3200+ k's (not bad since I am not sure he has EVER hit 90mph)
105 complete games
35 shutouts
17 consecutive years of 15+wins and 20 straight 13+wins
LESS than 1000 walks
3.10 lifetime era
Yes, he hasnt been top notch in a few years, but these numbers are still very impressive to me. Shoe in for the all and one of the GREATS imho...:)
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
There are lots of guys in his era that have only pitched in one league and havent had near the success. I personally think he would have done well in the AL because of his control. The AL has a much bigger strikezone(imo) and it would have given him even more places to make people look frustrated. I know what you mean though. I just wouldnt take anything away from him for that reason alone.
342 wins
3200+ k's (not bad since I am not sure he has EVER hit 90mph)
105 complete games
35 shutouts
17 consecutive years of 15+wins
LESS than 1000 walks
3.10 lifetime era
Yes, he hasnt been top notch in a few years, but these numbers are still very impressive to me. Shoe in for the all and one of the GREATS imho...:)
I agree with many here, if Clemens couldve owned up at the start, he would be making even me a fan (I cant stand the guy) right now. I may have even forgiven him for signing with the Yanks instead of coming back to the Sox.
He is good, but I dont think he is AS good as Maddux. He is consistent for sure.
Granted he has 4+ less years in, but has about 100 less wins, and era .60 higher. The walks are low, and he is gonna give you the starts every year, but I dont think he gets to 300. And like Maddux, he is struggling more and more each year. Era going higher, less innings, k's and giving up alot of hits. He is Good, but imo, wouldnt be in a conversation as one of the all-time greats and Maddux would. Just me though.
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
He is good, but I dont think he is AS good as Maddux. He is consistent for sure.
Granted he has 4+ less years in, but has about 100 less wins, and era .60 higher. The walks are low, and he is gonna give you the starts every year, but I dont think he gets to 300. And like Maddux, he is struggling more and more each year. Era going higher, less innings, k's and giving up alot of hits. He is Good, but imo, wouldnt be in a conversation as one of the all-time greats and Maddux would. Just me though.
But what if he (Mussina) played in the NL from the start?
Did anyone noticed how the Congressman and women were broken into patry lines as to those questioning Macnamee and Clemens?
Repubs for Clemens and Dems for MaCnamee, but the words unheard and misremembered are as bogus as Clemens testimony.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
it sounds dumb to me though
perhaps it is some 'legal-ese' his lawyers advised him to say? I misremember anyone ever using that word
and I would trust Andy before I'd trust Roger's 'memory' Andy is a God fearing man. He better not try to come back to the Bx now!
to answer the RHP question, what about Nolan Ryan?
I googled "misremember," and understandably most of the results are from the Clemens hearing, but there are also uses in random other sites and articles.
And didn't Pettitte earlier say that he only took HGH in 2002? And then today it came out that he took it in 2004 as well? I guess we could say that atleast Pettitte is honest when he lies...
to answer the RHP question, what about Nolan Ryan?
No.
What about Mike Mussina?
Mike Mussina gets mentioned before Pedro Martinez? Or Tom Seaver?
I googled "misremember," and understandably most of the results are from the Clemens hearing, but there are also uses in random other sites and articles.
And didn't Pettitte earlier say that he only took HGH in 2002? And then today it came out that he took it in 2004 as well? I guess we could say that atleast Pettitte is honest when he lies...
No.
Mike Mussina gets mentioned before Pedro Martinez? Or Tom Seaver?
No Nolan? Why?
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Because Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, and Greg Maddux are all better, and probably by a significant margin. Nolan is closer to Bert Blyleven(who deserves a spot in the HOF) than he is to Seaver.
Because Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, and Greg Maddux are all better, and probably by a significant margin. Nolan is closer to Bert Blyleven(who deserves a spot in the HOF) than he is to Seaver.
ok. But Pedro doesn't get a spot on my list. I don't like him. I'll take Tom and Greg though.
and we didn't specify starters or relievers. If we can include relievers, Mo is the best hands down
"...like a word misplaced, nothing said, what a waste.."
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
ok. But Pedro doesn't get a spot on my list. I don't like him. I'll take Tom and Greg though.
and we didn't specify starters or relievers. If we can include relievers, Mo is the best hands down
If we aren't counting people we don't like, then let's just wipe your franchise off the map
Rivera might be best for 1 inning, but innings pitched has to be factored in when talking about the best of all-time in general. If we ignored longevity for SP's, your beloved Pedro Martinez might be the best ever
I googled "misremember," and understandably most of the results are from the Clemens hearing, but there are also uses in random other sites and articles.
And didn't Pettitte earlier say that he only took HGH in 2002? And then today it came out that he took it in 2004 as well? I guess we could say that atleast Pettitte is honest when he lies...
No.
Mike Mussina gets mentioned before Pedro Martinez? Or Tom Seaver?
yea i forgot about them. i still think Clemens is still in the discussion. And we don't know what Pedro is gonna do these next few years.
okay, i'll be the first to say, i have only half followed this. baseball kinda died for me during the last strike. i try every year to get back into it, but man. IDK, that last strike killed it for me.
anywho, has there been any reason given as to why McNamme kept the syringes and gauze all these years?
i find that odd myself.
also, if i were on the stand, and they asked me about a party i went to in early 2000's or 199? whatever, i would not remember shit, so maybe RC is not really "lying" about some of this stuff. maybe he's the one "misremembering" things. who knows. i barely care to tell you the truth.
and finally, after this is all said and done, i think this will just go away, and nobody will do any time for lying under oath.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Mussina is a quality pitcher, but not sure I'd put him in the top 20 right handers of the last 50-60 years.
How about Bob Gibson.
I'd say Maddux, Seaver, Gibson, Pedro and Ryan deserve some argument.
And there's lots of others who come into play before Mussina's name should ever come up.
Forgot about these guys. Def in my top 10. Pedros durability knocks him out for me. He is a great pitcher, dont get me wrong, but durability is another thing I personally take into consideration. That is just me.
As for relievers go...That is TOUGH for me to say Mo is the best....Saves(and picthing in general) has changed alot over the years. Mo has alot of saves, but how many of those were one inning or less? Put a gun to my head and make me pick RIGHT NOW and I would say Goose Gossage or Eck or Hoffman. Mo would be a close 3rd...Lee Smith?? All of these guys would be in my top 5.
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
But what if he (Mussina) played in the NL from the start?
I am only talking about what we KNOW...What ifs are always hard. Just like I *think* Maddux would have done well in the AL but we dont know that for certain. We can only speculate. I am going off of what we have before us, and in my opinion, Mussina doesnt make my discussion.
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Comments
-- Darrell E. Issa, R-CA
Very funny!
.
New Orleans 1995
Fort Lauderdale 1996
Atlanta & Birmingham 1998
New Orleans 2000
Tampa 2003
Kissimmee 2004
New York City (x 2) 2008
East Troy (x 2) 2011
Chicago & New Orleans 2013
Hampton, Raleigh, Boston 2016
Baltimore 2020
Louisville 2022
Philadelphia & Baltimore 2024
That's why she spells it with two x's...
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
McNamee,Pettite,Pettite's Wife,Knobloch and the Nanny are all lying
Clemens is the only one telling the truth ?
SUUUUUUUUUURE
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
Was that an issue that contributed to the '94 strike?
.
New Orleans 1995
Fort Lauderdale 1996
Atlanta & Birmingham 1998
New Orleans 2000
Tampa 2003
Kissimmee 2004
New York City (x 2) 2008
East Troy (x 2) 2011
Chicago & New Orleans 2013
Hampton, Raleigh, Boston 2016
Baltimore 2020
Louisville 2022
Philadelphia & Baltimore 2024
but "misremembered?" is that a word?
I believe Andy over Clemens any day!
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
I thought it sounded off, but I looked it up and it appears to be a real word. I guess I 'misremembered' the validity of 'misremembered'.
(1) His own personal trainer was giving it to other clients.
(2) His own wife knew about it and used it.
(3) His best friend and travel buddy used it.
(4) He knew Jose Canseco.
(5) And in large for the past decade, he was playing in an era where there was infinite whispers about who was using and who wasn't.
If he's half the competitor he says he is, how come he didn't know? And what exactly did him and Andy talk about all that time on the road together? How could it not come up once? I just don't get it.
Somebody explain why he's remotely innocent other than he is until proven otherwise. Personally, I think this matter should be dropped. The problem is out in the open now. We know it was there. You can't just go after one person when it was embedded in the baseball culture. It's not fair to Clemens. Other than people widely being entertained under false pretenses, what was the damage really? No point in making Roger an example. Or Barry.
To avoid all of this all he had to do was say I took something for some made up reason, injury whatever. This had to be done though at the very beginning when this first came out.
To me he's sold his soul now and there's no turning back.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
now that Roger has ruined his legacy....Who would you say is the best RIGHT-handed pitcher in the last 50-60 years?
My vote would have to be Greg Maddux. Looking at how Clemens got his numbers now(96 to present), makes what Maddux has done even MORE impressive to me considering he isnt a power picther.. I would put him on the list as one of the top pitchers of all time. I think it is safe to say that Maddux has never taken steroids of any sort.....discuss...:)
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Hard to say. Maddux has pitched in the NL for his whole career. It's hard to know what he would've done in the AL. Especially during these last few years.
There are lots of guys in his era that have only pitched in one league and havent had near the success. I personally think he would have done well in the AL because of his control. The AL has a much bigger strikezone(imo) and it would have given him even more places to make people look frustrated. I know what you mean though. I just wouldnt take anything away from him for that reason alone.
347 wins
3200+ k's (not bad since I am not sure he has EVER hit 90mph)
105 complete games
35 shutouts
17 consecutive years of 15+wins and 20 straight 13+wins
LESS than 1000 walks
3.10 lifetime era
Yes, he hasnt been top notch in a few years, but these numbers are still very impressive to me. Shoe in for the all and one of the GREATS imho...:)
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
What about Mike Mussina?
He is good, but I dont think he is AS good as Maddux. He is consistent for sure.
Granted he has 4+ less years in, but has about 100 less wins, and era .60 higher. The walks are low, and he is gonna give you the starts every year, but I dont think he gets to 300. And like Maddux, he is struggling more and more each year. Era going higher, less innings, k's and giving up alot of hits. He is Good, but imo, wouldnt be in a conversation as one of the all-time greats and Maddux would. Just me though.
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
But what if he (Mussina) played in the NL from the start?
perhaps it is some 'legal-ese' his lawyers advised him to say? I misremember anyone ever using that word
and I would trust Andy before I'd trust Roger's 'memory' Andy is a God fearing man. He better not try to come back to the Bx now!
to answer the RHP question, what about Nolan Ryan?
also, is this starter or reliever? For reliever it has to be Mo, without a doubt
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Repubs for Clemens and Dems for MaCnamee, but the words unheard and misremembered are as bogus as Clemens testimony.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I googled "misremember," and understandably most of the results are from the Clemens hearing, but there are also uses in random other sites and articles.
And didn't Pettitte earlier say that he only took HGH in 2002? And then today it came out that he took it in 2004 as well? I guess we could say that atleast Pettitte is honest when he lies...
No.
Mike Mussina gets mentioned before Pedro Martinez? Or Tom Seaver?
No Nolan? Why?
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
Because Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, and Greg Maddux are all better, and probably by a significant margin. Nolan is closer to Bert Blyleven(who deserves a spot in the HOF) than he is to Seaver.
ok. But Pedro doesn't get a spot on my list. I don't like him. I'll take Tom and Greg though.
and we didn't specify starters or relievers. If we can include relievers, Mo is the best hands down
"Sometimes life should be consumed in measured doses"
6-01-06
6/25/08
Free Speedy
and Metsy!
If we aren't counting people we don't like, then let's just wipe your franchise off the map
Rivera might be best for 1 inning, but innings pitched has to be factored in when talking about the best of all-time in general. If we ignored longevity for SP's, your beloved Pedro Martinez might be the best ever
yea i forgot about them. i still think Clemens is still in the discussion. And we don't know what Pedro is gonna do these next few years.
anywho, has there been any reason given as to why McNamme kept the syringes and gauze all these years?
i find that odd myself.
also, if i were on the stand, and they asked me about a party i went to in early 2000's or 199? whatever, i would not remember shit, so maybe RC is not really "lying" about some of this stuff. maybe he's the one "misremembering" things. who knows. i barely care to tell you the truth.
and finally, after this is all said and done, i think this will just go away, and nobody will do any time for lying under oath.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
How about Bob Gibson.
I'd say Maddux, Seaver, Gibson, Pedro and Ryan deserve some argument.
And there's lots of others who come into play before Mussina's name should ever come up.
Forgot about these guys. Def in my top 10. Pedros durability knocks him out for me. He is a great pitcher, dont get me wrong, but durability is another thing I personally take into consideration. That is just me.
As for relievers go...That is TOUGH for me to say Mo is the best....Saves(and picthing in general) has changed alot over the years. Mo has alot of saves, but how many of those were one inning or less? Put a gun to my head and make me pick RIGHT NOW and I would say Goose Gossage or Eck or Hoffman. Mo would be a close 3rd...Lee Smith?? All of these guys would be in my top 5.
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
I am only talking about what we KNOW...What ifs are always hard. Just like I *think* Maddux would have done well in the AL but we dont know that for certain. We can only speculate. I am going off of what we have before us, and in my opinion, Mussina doesnt make my discussion.
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12