not trying to be nit-picking, but what is the other interpretation? i instantly took it too be meant the way harmless read it too, is there a meaning ive missed?? (not trying to debate, just wana know what ive missed)
a culture of unhappy marriage can be even worse than a culture of divorce
I took it with a numeric interpretation. The percentage of divorce is getting higher (I don't know exact numbers, and in fact, don't know FOR A FACT that it's the highest it's ever been but I'm going that way..)
That's a culture of divorce.
The reasons for divorce, well that's it's own thread.
...especially after reading through this thread and seeing all of the underlying selfishness that i see in the posts. romanticized ideas of love & marriage leads to a culture of divorce that really is depressing for those of us who still hang onto the belief that marriage is forever...and a vow between two people to share their lives together for better or for worse.
i can't judge anyone for what they choose to do, and i did not say anything negative to offend those who have had to deal with the pain of a divorce. please don't put words in my mouth. thanks.
...especially after reading through this thread and seeing all of the underlying selfishness that i see in the posts. romanticized ideas of love & marriage leads to a culture of divorce that really is depressing for those of us who still hang onto the belief that marriage is forever...and a vow between two people to share their lives together for better or for worse.
i can't judge anyone for what they choose to do, and i did not say anything negative to offend those who have had to deal with the pain of a divorce. please don't put words in my mouth. thanks.
Yeah, see, that's what I thought, you were being fucking condescending...
You stand back and criticise the sad 'culture of divorce' because of your own higher moral values. I've got news for you, idiot... I have the same moral values as you. I believe marriage is forever and everything else is bullshit of the highest order.
She had other ideas, and now I'm fucked.
I'm not going to be fucking lumped into any 'culture of divorce' by you, or anyone. Divorce is a tragedy, not a moral depravation or epidemic.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I took it with a numeric interpretation. The percentage of divorce is getting higher (I don't know exact numbers, and in fact, don't know FOR A FACT that it's the highest it's ever been but I'm going that way..)
That's a culture of divorce.
The reasons for divorce, well that's it's own thread.
well maybe is enough people get divorced people will be more careful when they get married in the first place.
eh, besides, who cares if we have a "culture of divorce"? It's no skin of anyone's back if there are a lot of divorced people running around.
...especially after reading through this thread and seeing all of the underlying selfishness that i see in the posts. romanticized ideas of love & marriage leads to a culture of divorce that really is depressing for those of us who still hang onto the belief that marriage is forever...and a vow between two people to share their lives together for better or for worse.
i can't judge anyone for what they choose to do, and i did not say anything negative to offend those who have had to deal with the pain of a divorce. please don't put words in my mouth. thanks.
ahhh. thats fair. agree with all of that. good to see that there are still those who truly believe in marriage
BUT reality can intervene. and i still think that while its great to believe that you can spend a lifetime together with one person people can change so much that often it will become impossible. which is the depressing part.
edit: personally i dont think you should let what other people do in their private relationships affect/upset/depress you...its real life is all
well maybe is enough people get divorced people will be more careful when they get married in the first place.
eh, besides, who cares if we have a "culture of divorce"? It's no skin of anyone's back if there are a lot of divorced people running around.
I think it is to roar... I think it deeply upsets his moral code.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Yeah, see, that's what I thought, you were being fucking condescending...
You stand back and criticise the sad 'culture of divorce' because of your own higher moral values. I've got news for you, idiot... I had the same moral values as you. I believe marriage is forever and everything else is bullshit of the highest order.
She had other ideas... I'm not going to be fucking lumped into any 'culture of divorce' by you, or anyone.
i said the culture of divorce is depressing in my first post. then, i explained why i believe it is (in condensed form). with the divorce rate as high as it is, values clearly have changed in our society...and to me, that's depressing.
i'm not stupid. i do have high moral values, and i'm not going to apologize for them or for the feelings i had when i read through this thread.
i said the culture of divorce is depressing in my first post. then, i explained why i believe it is (in condensed form). with the divorce rate as high as it is, values clearly have changed in our society...and to me, that's depressing.
i'm not stupid. i do have high moral values, and i'm not going to apologize for them or for the feelings i had when i read through this thread.
I'm not getting what divorce has to do with morals.
and higher divorce rates have nothing to do with changing values. people would have been getting divorced since the beginning of time of time if they could have done it more easily (or at all, given the culture in question).
I'm not getting what divorce has to do with morals.
and higher divorce rates have nothing to do with changing values. people would have been getting divorced since the beginning of time of time if they could have done it more easily (or at all, given the culture in question).
Many people believe it has (I know his sort, trust me), but they've invariably never gone through it. I wonder if he'd be so happy if he was suddenly found living as one of his own statistics..
Edit: by the way, by 'sad', I'll bet you a fiver he means 'sinful'..
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
How can you say you have high morals? I mean aren't morals based on personal feelings of what is right or wrong? Can't I then say yours are actually quite low, or that your entire value system leads you to false assumptions?
By the way, I know what you mean, but this is where we all get into trouble talking about these things.
I happen to be in the latter stages of a divorce i initiated. Until you walk in my shoes, don't assume that every divorce is frivilous and I am morally bankrupt.
I would contend that Marraige is artificially overvalued by society and too many people get married. That is where the divorce rate comes from. That and it looks out of whack with our previous generations who couldnt divorce freely for many reasons good and bad.
don't assume that every divorce is frivilous and I am morally bankrupt.
Again, I didn't.
But apparently I can't stop you from putting words in my mouth. You're assuming that because I don't believe in divorce, that I'm judging each and every one of you for it. Not the case...and this is a touchy subject. I wanted to put my feelings out there on the matter...you all can, too.
Again, I didn't.
But apparently I can't stop you from putting words in my mouth. You're assuming that because I don't believe in divorce, that I'm judging each and every one of you for it. Not the case...and this is a touchy subject. I wanted to put my feelings out there on the matter...you all can, too.
I did put words in your mouth, and I apologize. I stand by my statement though that this is the problem with any conevrsation about morals. For some reason we all assume everyone else shares ours exactly and when they don't all hell breaks loose.
Again, I didn't.
But apparently I can't stop you from putting words in my mouth. You're assuming that because I don't believe in divorce, that I'm judging each and every one of you for it. Not the case...and this is a touchy subject. I wanted to put my feelings out there on the matter...you all can, too.
You don't believe in divorce... in the same sense as you don't believe in the tooth fairy?
Like I said, neither did I.... until I dropped my ignorance..
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
...
Honest, I've thought many times about leaving. What keeps me? That look on his face. The fact that we've been together for so long. That he knows me so well (I thought). That he was my best friend for so many years. The fact that he depends on me so much. That I'm scared that he'll go back to drinking (even though I KNOW that's not my fault. He's a big boy who makes his own decisions. But head and heart are 2 different things).
And honestly? The mess of a divorce. The splitting, the separation, the potential for him hating me. Having to deal with selling the house, watching all my hopes and dreams from so long ago go POOF! Up in smoke. The disappointment.
And, always wondering if I made the wrong decision. Either way, can I win?
I can completely understand where you are coming from...it's a look that you arent sure if it will haunt you or make you cry or make you gasp...it's the fact that you KNOW that man.
I think that the suggestion that you get all of the words from your first post, and add this quoted post of yours to a letter to your husband...is a golden idea. you don't have to throw in the towel, but you do have to make sure that as you have grown, he grows with you...I hope you can work through it because losing a best friend, lover, husband, and mate seems like exquisite torture...but then so is losing yourself.
god, I am so not helpful at all right here...I just wanted to point out that "the look" can keep you longer than you think, and it can pull you through some bad times...like the times when "the look" is all you have. Anyway, not so good with the advice...not enough info to make a judgment call...but that little part just really screamed out at me.
wish you peace!
IF YOU WANT A PLATE OF MY BEEF SWELLINGTON, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE COVERCHARGE.
If you go for one, I'd recommend getting it 'well done' rather than 'bloody as hell'....
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Let me say, I don't take my marriage lightly, as noted by the fact that I really want to save this, even when me hubby doesn't see it needs fixing.
We didn't jump into this marriage, or our relationship. 10 years is a long time to be together. We depend on one another, we have grown together and yet apart.
Nor do I take divorce lightly either. I come from parents married 27 years. Who still have that look of love in their eyes. I WANT that. I aspire to have a marriage like that. However, I don't let dreams cloud my reality.
I appreciate both sides - the "leave him" the "stay and try". I'm not sure what to do. I'm probably going to start counseling alone. To first try and find me again. And I'll go from there.
I've realized (in some ways known for a while) that I've outgrown the relationship. That I'm not the person I was 10, 7, 5, even 2 years ago. And not in a bad way. But when I'm the person growing and have a partner who is stagnant with no desire to grow too, it is very difficult. I just hope that I can properly express my feelings and get him to understand that I need someone on the same level, not the 19 year old stuck in time. And hopefully he can accept this, not hold it against me and gracefully learn to establish direction. A girl can dream?
But I refuse to lose my identity. It's easy to type, but I won't stay stuck. I have to remind myself that I'm worth more than that. Even if it means that I have to lose my marriage. A failure to some, a growing experience to others.
It's not over yet, I'm going to give it my all. Hopefully it's not a one person fight. I guess, I have to keep in mind the old saying "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all"
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. "
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Life is too short to be that displeased... if you are out there secluded from the world as you say, perhaps a fresh start is a good thing... new job, new surroundings... be strong and positive about the situation....i dont know if you have kids or not, but if the answer is not, then your situation is a lot easier...
if you truly want to try to salvage the relationship... try seeking some help... there are marriage couselors that can assist... they wont always try to make you get back together, but at least get to the root cause of what the issues are. in some cases they may actually tell you to seperate and see what life is like without one another... you may want to check out a book called Should I Stay or Should I Go by Lee Raffel... Really good book...
Good luck with your situation...
When the other person refuses to see there is a problem?
I know there are a lot of relationship threads on here, so I figure someone must have gone through something like this.
My hubby and I have been together for 10 years. Almost 1/3 of my life. But as time goes on, I realize that we really have nothing in common. Our goals, our dreams, our lifestyle. I do note that you don't have to be with your exact duplicate, but when it comes down to it, our futures just don't seem to be on the same path. And it makes me sad.
When I try and talk to him about anything, he just gets defensive. Or doesn't care. He doesn't see any problems. Life is "status quo". But I've grown, matured, "aged" if you will. And I still have hopes and dreams. And I see that he doesn't share them with me, is almost just along for the ride.
I've made a lot of sacrifices for him. And he doesn't see it. Past is past he says. There are too many things to list, and trust me, I'm willing to change. I have changed, that's probably part of the problem.
I've finally realized that I'm older, different than I was at 19. But it's almost like he's stuck. No goals, no ambition, never wants to grow up. And we don't align anymore. I'm not sure this is what I want anymore.
The biggest thing is, that I've totally alienated myself. We moved to where we live now about 6 years ago. And we never made any new friends, he never wanted to hang out with my friends or go anywhere with the people I met. So we ended up being alone. So I really don't have anyone. I feel alone.
If I left (what a mess that would be) I'd start 100% over. I'd probably move all by myself south. New job, new life, new place, alone. Which sounds liberating in theory, but I'm not sure I can handle it.
How do I fix this? Can it be fixed? Am I just coexsisting? Will I live the rest of my life wondering? How can I make him see that I'm unhappy with what our relationship has become? Do all relationships end up like this? Am I just in a rut?
You know the Dave Matthews Song "Grey Street"? That's me! The song brings me to tears because that's how I feel.
Oh there's an emptiness inside her
And she'll do anything to fill it in
And though it's red blood bleeding from her now
It's more like cold blue ice in her heart
She feels like kicking out all the windows
And setting fire to this life
She could change everything about her
Using colors bold and bright
But all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart
It breaks her heart
ahhhh I feel your pain. I was married for 9 years, got married young (not as young as you), and this happened to us. By the time I hit 29/30 I had changed immensely - really matured, had goals, knew what I wanted. he was still searching for the best happy hour to go to. Once we had a house and a child, ie responsibilities, the difference between us became tremendous. I was utterly miserable. Basically a single parent of an infant and someone who was irresponsible as a 14 year old. It was like having 2 kids. I did EVERYTHING, and felt like I had to play both roles. It was an emotional roller coaster. Eventually we split and it was the best thing. He is even more immature and irresponsible now. He filed for bankruptcy, lives w/his parents, gambles, goes to bars still, etc.
My only advice is to tell him how you are feeling and that you are on the verge of ending the marriage unless he can discuss this and grow up a bit. However, it sound slike your differences may be too big to even overcome. I am not sure if you have kids, but if you don't, please don't think of letting that happen until you figure out what is best for you. It only complicates things further. I hope you make the right decision. Good luck!
tell me about it. his friends used to tell me that I held him together, I never realized it until I saw what happened to him w/o me. yikes! divorced 4 years and he still calls me for advice...lol
tell me about it. his friends used to tell me that I held him together, I never realized it until I saw what happened to him w/o me. yikes! divorced 4 years and he still calls me for advice...lol
Wow, and I thought I was struggling to run my life.. thanks for the encouragement.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Comments
That's a culture of divorce.
The reasons for divorce, well that's it's own thread.
i said it was sad. to me, it is.
...especially after reading through this thread and seeing all of the underlying selfishness that i see in the posts. romanticized ideas of love & marriage leads to a culture of divorce that really is depressing for those of us who still hang onto the belief that marriage is forever...and a vow between two people to share their lives together for better or for worse.
i can't judge anyone for what they choose to do, and i did not say anything negative to offend those who have had to deal with the pain of a divorce. please don't put words in my mouth. thanks.
Yeah, see, that's what I thought, you were being fucking condescending...
You stand back and criticise the sad 'culture of divorce' because of your own higher moral values. I've got news for you, idiot... I have the same moral values as you. I believe marriage is forever and everything else is bullshit of the highest order.
She had other ideas, and now I'm fucked.
I'm not going to be fucking lumped into any 'culture of divorce' by you, or anyone. Divorce is a tragedy, not a moral depravation or epidemic.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
well maybe is enough people get divorced people will be more careful when they get married in the first place.
eh, besides, who cares if we have a "culture of divorce"? It's no skin of anyone's back if there are a lot of divorced people running around.
ahhh. thats fair.
BUT reality can intervene. and i still think that while its great to believe that you can spend a lifetime together with one person people can change so much that often it will become impossible. which is the depressing part.
edit: personally i dont think you should let what other people do in their private relationships affect/upset/depress you...its real life is all
I think it is to roar... I think it deeply upsets his moral code.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
i said the culture of divorce is depressing in my first post. then, i explained why i believe it is (in condensed form). with the divorce rate as high as it is, values clearly have changed in our society...and to me, that's depressing.
i'm not stupid. i do have high moral values, and i'm not going to apologize for them or for the feelings i had when i read through this thread.
I'm not getting what divorce has to do with morals.
and higher divorce rates have nothing to do with changing values. people would have been getting divorced since the beginning of time of time if they could have done it more easily (or at all, given the culture in question).
he said i had high moral values. i was just affirming that my "morals" are of high importance to me.
yeah I get that...they are important to me as well...but I don't think there is a link between morals and divorce.
Many people believe it has (I know his sort, trust me), but they've invariably never gone through it. I wonder if he'd be so happy if he was suddenly found living as one of his own statistics..
Edit: by the way, by 'sad', I'll bet you a fiver he means 'sinful'..
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
By the way, I know what you mean, but this is where we all get into trouble talking about these things.
I happen to be in the latter stages of a divorce i initiated. Until you walk in my shoes, don't assume that every divorce is frivilous and I am morally bankrupt.
I would contend that Marraige is artificially overvalued by society and too many people get married. That is where the divorce rate comes from. That and it looks out of whack with our previous generations who couldnt divorce freely for many reasons good and bad.
Again, I didn't.
But apparently I can't stop you from putting words in my mouth. You're assuming that because I don't believe in divorce, that I'm judging each and every one of you for it. Not the case...and this is a touchy subject. I wanted to put my feelings out there on the matter...you all can, too.
You don't believe in divorce... in the same sense as you don't believe in the tooth fairy?
Like I said, neither did I.... until I dropped my ignorance..
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I can completely understand where you are coming from...it's a look that you arent sure if it will haunt you or make you cry or make you gasp...it's the fact that you KNOW that man.
I think that the suggestion that you get all of the words from your first post, and add this quoted post of yours to a letter to your husband...is a golden idea. you don't have to throw in the towel, but you do have to make sure that as you have grown, he grows with you...I hope you can work through it because losing a best friend, lover, husband, and mate seems like exquisite torture...but then so is losing yourself.
god, I am so not helpful at all right here...I just wanted to point out that "the look" can keep you longer than you think, and it can pull you through some bad times...like the times when "the look" is all you have. Anyway, not so good with the advice...not enough info to make a judgment call...but that little part just really screamed out at me.
wish you peace!
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If you go for one, I'd recommend getting it 'well done' rather than 'bloody as hell'....
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Let me say, I don't take my marriage lightly, as noted by the fact that I really want to save this, even when me hubby doesn't see it needs fixing.
We didn't jump into this marriage, or our relationship. 10 years is a long time to be together. We depend on one another, we have grown together and yet apart.
Nor do I take divorce lightly either. I come from parents married 27 years. Who still have that look of love in their eyes. I WANT that. I aspire to have a marriage like that. However, I don't let dreams cloud my reality.
I appreciate both sides - the "leave him" the "stay and try". I'm not sure what to do. I'm probably going to start counseling alone. To first try and find me again. And I'll go from there.
I've realized (in some ways known for a while) that I've outgrown the relationship. That I'm not the person I was 10, 7, 5, even 2 years ago. And not in a bad way. But when I'm the person growing and have a partner who is stagnant with no desire to grow too, it is very difficult. I just hope that I can properly express my feelings and get him to understand that I need someone on the same level, not the 19 year old stuck in time. And hopefully he can accept this, not hold it against me and gracefully learn to establish direction. A girl can dream?
But I refuse to lose my identity. It's easy to type, but I won't stay stuck. I have to remind myself that I'm worth more than that. Even if it means that I have to lose my marriage. A failure to some, a growing experience to others.
It's not over yet, I'm going to give it my all. Hopefully it's not a one person fight. I guess, I have to keep in mind the old saying "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
if you truly want to try to salvage the relationship... try seeking some help... there are marriage couselors that can assist... they wont always try to make you get back together, but at least get to the root cause of what the issues are. in some cases they may actually tell you to seperate and see what life is like without one another... you may want to check out a book called Should I Stay or Should I Go by Lee Raffel... Really good book...
Good luck with your situation...
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."
ahhhh I feel your pain. I was married for 9 years, got married young (not as young as you), and this happened to us. By the time I hit 29/30 I had changed immensely - really matured, had goals, knew what I wanted. he was still searching for the best happy hour to go to. Once we had a house and a child, ie responsibilities, the difference between us became tremendous. I was utterly miserable. Basically a single parent of an infant and someone who was irresponsible as a 14 year old. It was like having 2 kids. I did EVERYTHING, and felt like I had to play both roles. It was an emotional roller coaster. Eventually we split and it was the best thing. He is even more immature and irresponsible now. He filed for bankruptcy, lives w/his parents, gambles, goes to bars still, etc.
My only advice is to tell him how you are feeling and that you are on the verge of ending the marriage unless he can discuss this and grow up a bit. However, it sound slike your differences may be too big to even overcome. I am not sure if you have kids, but if you don't, please don't think of letting that happen until you figure out what is best for you. It only complicates things further. I hope you make the right decision. Good luck!
blimey, talk about having no back bone!
tell me about it. his friends used to tell me that I held him together, I never realized it until I saw what happened to him w/o me. yikes! divorced 4 years and he still calls me for advice...lol
Wow, and I thought I was struggling to run my life.. thanks for the encouragement.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
you know where to find me if you ever need that