our culture of divorce is really depressing. just sayin'.
And you're also 'just sayin' that it's people's own fault for not trying hard enough, right?
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I am the LAST person who should be giving advice, but here is my two cents.
If you are staying for him because you dont want to hurt him, you are cheating yourself. I know this scenario all too well. You will grow to resent him if things dont change and be the way you want or hope them to be. You will stay for the sake of staying and you will in turn start to hate yourself for it as well.
If you TRULY love him and want it to work...Tell him(dont suggest, TELL HIM) that if he doesnt go to counseling and try to make things better between you, that you are going to leave him. He will either tell you to get your happy pills again, (in which case, he will have made your decision for you), or he will stand up and "Holy, shit, I guess she is serious!" and he will put forth the effort as well if he wants it to work too.
You are young, and it sounds like you are a strong person who could make a new start on her own no matter what the decision. Dont wait, act now. It is very easy to become complacent and just learn to deal. No way to live, trust me.
Good Luck to you.
the part i bolded, that is IT imho. seriously. be sure you MEN it before you say it. doesn't mean you have to decide to move out tomorrow, but that you WILL follow through and let him know that. it is amazing what people in a relationship will do to avoid the 'reality' of their situation, or simply fail to see the seriousness of the issue. sounds like that may be what's up with your husband, but only you would know for sure. i truly think counseling is the *answer*...no it won't *fix* your marriage, but firstly, him agreeing would mean he too TRULY does love you and wants to stay married...and then simply counselling will help you BOTH see what's missing, and most importantly, COMMUNICATE it! it may not *save* your marriage...or it may...but what it will do is equip you for either scenario, and let you both think/feel you gave it your ALL. let's face it, you loved each other enough to get married and stay married 10 years....i think you owe it to yourselves to exhaust your options before walking away.
btw - i do have to say, anyone who thinks simply b/c children are NOT involved, that you don't owe your partner anything....well :mad: to me, first and foremost marriage is a COMMITMENT made between 2 people. if that also results in a family, sure, that adds to it and most definitely complicates things if you consider splitting. however, even withOUT children, i don't think anyone should take a cavalier and/or me first stance in regards to marriage. if ultimately it can't be fixed/saved/worked on....that's that....but i truly believe the commitment between 2 people deserves a bit more respect. it is NOT only about if children are involved, but also.....2 lives that have been bound together and what efforts are worth it, figuring out when it's time to keep at it, or time to walk away.
i wish you both the vesry BEST. it IS so important to reassess, and you absolutely deserve to be happy, as does your spouse.....so good to figure out sooner rather than later if you'll be happier staying together or going your seperate ways.
god will provide you with eternal love if you just ride the wave
pray about it , a lot of relationships end up in a rut because im not happy with myself, how could i ever be good enough for someone else
peace and love
set your laughter free
dreamer in my dream
we got the guns
i love you,but im..............callin out.........callin out
the part i bolded, that is IT imho. seriously. be sure you MEN it before you say it. doesn't mean you have to decide to move out tomorrow, but that you WILL follow through and let him know that. it is amazing what people in a relationship will do to avoid the 'reality' of their situation, or simply fail to see the seriousness of the issue. sounds like that may be what's up with your husband, but only you would know for sure. i truly think counseling is the *answer*...no it won't *fix* your marriage, but firstly, him agreeing would mean he too TRULY does love you and wants to stay married...and then simply counselling will help you BOTH see what's missing, and most importantly, COMMUNICATE it! it may not *save* your marriage...or it may...but what it will do is equip you for either scenario, and let you both think/feel you gave it your ALL. let's face it, you loved each other enough to get married and stay married 10 years....i think you owe it to yourselves to exhaust your options before walking away.
btw - i do have to say, anyone who thinks simply b/c children are NOT involved, that you don't owe your partner anything....well :mad: to me, first and foremost marriage is a COMMITMENT made between 2 people. if that also results in a family, sure, that adds to it and most definitely complicates things if you consider splitting. however, even withOUT children, i don't think anyone should take a cavalier and/or me first stance in regards to marriage. if ultimately it can't be fixed/saved/worked on....that's that....but i truly believe the commitment between 2 people deserves a bit more respect. it is NOT only about if children are involved, but also.....2 lives that have been bound together and what efforts are worth it, figuring out when it's time to keep at it, or time to walk away.
i wish you both the vesry BEST. it IS so important to reassess, and you absolutely deserve to be happy, as does your spouse.....so good to figure out sooner rather than later if you'll be happier staying together or going your seperate ways.
While I'm not disagreeing with you, OP might not want to put the counselling on him in the form of an ultimatum.
While I'm not disagreeing with you, OP might not want to put the counselling on him in the form of an ultimatum.
if she is at the point of simply walking away, why not? personally, i think it's an excellent idea. i don't know how/what will work in her personal situation, i DO know of couples that it DID come down to that....and yea....it 'saved' their marriage, was just the impetus they needed, better/happier than ever....and sure, conversely, other couopes who after counseling realized, yea...time to walk away. to me it really clarifies/resolves the issue for both parties. to me, it sounds like her husband is ignoring/avoiding the seriousness of the issues/her feelings....and is simply not dealing. THIS would make him see, clear as day, it really IS that serious...and here is your chance to either try, or say fine....and walk away. just my 2 cents.
our culture of divorce is really depressing. just sayin'.
Yes it is, and it's also depressing for those who do it. It's not as easy as it sounds, despite how often it happens. Sometimes people just grow apart.
if she is at the point of simply walking away, why not? personally, i think it's an excellent idea. i don't know how/what will work in her personal situation, i DO know of couples that it DID come down to that....and yea....it 'saved' their marriage, was just the impetus they needed, better/happier than ever....and sure, conversely, other couopes who after counseling realized, yea...time to walk away. to me it really clarifies/resolves the issue for both parties. to me, it sounds like her husband is ignoring/avoiding the seriousness of the issues/her feelings....and is simply not dealing. THIS would make him see, clear as day, it really IS that serious...and here is your chance to either try, or say fine....and walk away. just my 2 cents.
I am not disagreeing that poster's husband and the marriage would benefit from counselling, nor am I saying he shouldn't be told to do it. I'm just saying that the ultimatum approach could have the reverse effect if OP wants to save the marriage. Get him into counselling, but don't tell him "do it or I'm leaving".
Know what I mean, Vern?
I am not disagreeing that poster's husband and the marriage would benefit from counselling, nor am I saying he shouldn't be told to do it. I'm just saying that the ultimatum approach could have the reverse effect if OP wants to save the marriage. Get him into counselling, but don't tell him "do it or I'm leaving".
Know what I mean, Vern?
i do.
however, i am saying sometimes such tactics are necessary. from the little i can gather here, it appears as if the husband is blind to/ignoring/avoiding the real issues at hand. it sounds like it's been 'discussed' and dismissed, many times over with little to no effect. i also think there are ways of offering the 'ultimatum' that makes it feel much less like an actual ultimatum, and much more like 'hey! wake-up call! things really ARE this desperate, you have been disregarding my feelings, my attempts to work it out and communicate...so this is it! we NEED an objective third-party to help us back on track or there is nothing left, no other choice but to leave." i will add that obviously, only the OP knows or can imagine how her husband will react and the best way of approaching it all.
it DOES sound like while seriously considering leaving, that she also seriously would like to save her marriage. the fact that the title of this thread is "HOW do you save a relationship" speaks volumes to me. sounds pro-active and a true desire. hopefully, her husband WILL see just how dire the situation is, and that HE needs to act/participate in the salvage efforts. either way, i hope all involved find what they need/want. life is too short to be unhappy, but i also believe the commitment of marriage deserves every effort before giving up. once every effort is exhausted and it is STILL evident needs are unmet, someone is dissatisified/unhappy, time to go and find happiness elsewhere. however, counseling could be just the ticket back to why they fell in love and stayed together, and give them new tools to take with them to keep their marriage happy and satisfying. bottomline, it takes BOTH in the couple to own up to the issues, their part in em and the TRUE desire to work through it.
*i will add the caveat, IF she can suggest counseling without the ultimatum and get him there, GREAT! but if it really is so desperately far gone and he is so avoiding the reality, sometimes it 'the ultimatum' IS the last change/effort. as i said though, you have to KNOW that's what you'll do and follow through...so don't 'go there' until you are absolutely ready/aware that it really IS counseling or it's over.
*i will add the caveat, IF she can suggest counseling without the ultimatum and get him there, GREAT! but if it really is so desperately far gone and he is so avoiding the reality, sometimes it 'the ultimatum' IS the last change/effort. as i said though, you have to KNOW that's what you'll do and follow through...so don't 'go there' until you are absolutely ready/aware that it really IS counseling or it's over.
You've just been living in the ashes of your shattered dreams.
Wow dude, that sounds so depressingly romantic.:)
If it was me i'd leave him, and i'd leave everything, because once the feeling is gone,its gone....any relationship after that is living together in a lie.
but that's just me.
i'm leaving my job soon, i've cut out majority of my fake friends....sure if i'd stay i would have moved on with my life and i would've appeared to have it all resonably paid job, maybe my own flat later on, lots of friends......but it would've been all on the outside. i'm also deciding whether to stay or not in my new relationship, but frankly my heart tells me i've made my mind up on that one too.
sure i'm loosing lots of things, but with it i will gain freedom and happiness.
and these are two things in my life i'm not willing so sacrifce.
my boyfriend has done some really nice things for people/animals too, but should this be the only reason for me to stay with him?
the way i figure it out is like this:
if my heart doesn't beat faster or if i'm not happy to speak with my bf on the phone,
if i don't miss him,
if i don't think about him lots during the day, and so on.
i'm glad you are with your husband, and the story you've written is interesting.but i'd like to discuss this, in this post you basically said that your husband is sweet and kind man. But is the kindness of his heart all that you need?
my boyfriend has done some really nice things for people/animals too, but should this be the only reason for me to stay with him?
the way i figure it out is like this:
if my heart doesn't beat faster or if i'm not happy to speak with my bf on the phone,
if i don't miss him,
if i don't think about him lots during the day, and so on.
then i shouldn't be in this kind of relationship.
How do you know that someone even exists that will fulfill that criteria anyway?
I am not disagreeing that poster's husband and the marriage would benefit from counselling, nor am I saying he shouldn't be told to do it. I'm just saying that the ultimatum approach could have the reverse effect if OP wants to save the marriage. Get him into counselling, but don't tell him "do it or I'm leaving".
Know what I mean, Vern?
some people are really against counseling. sadly some see it as a weakness.
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
some people are really against counseling. sadly some see it as a weakness.
I didn't mean it against counselling, just that the blunt delivery might cause the husband to overlook the meaning and see it as a desire to separate - no if's, and's or but's.
If he's against counselling and won't do it, that is a different scenario.
Ok, well there you go.
I would think that someone like this doesn't exist for everyone.
actually my response to you was slightly wrong. you are talking about criteria, and i was talking about my feeling towards the person.
now:
i would consider a criteria to be, hair colour, type of music, height, weight..etc.
what i was talking about should not be called "criteria". i have different feelings towards different people. there were at least 3 people in my life to whom i felt this way.
oh, and btw, heart beating faster is a bit of my exaguration, so people don't take the heart comment to seriously.
actually my response to you was slightly wrong. you are talking about criteria, and i was talking about my feeling towards the person.
now:
i would consider a criteria to be, hair colour, type of music, height, weight..etc.
what i was talking about should not be called "criteria". i have different feelings towards different people. there were at least 3 people in my life to whom i felt this way.
oh, and btw, heart beating faster is a bit of my exaguration, so people don't take the heart comment to seriously.
Sorry, I just referred to what you listed as 'criteria'.
Sorry, I just referred to what you listed as 'criteria'.
that's alright, but i know a person like this exists, trust me i don't ask much from a guy, i turn a blind eye to certain things. but if i notice there is not "chemistry" a word people like to use these days, than i'm not going to bother wasting my time and leading the guy on to thinking we can live happily for long time. i don't think it's fair for both.
that's alright, but i know a person like this exists, trust me i don't ask much from a guy, i turn a blind eye to certain things. but if i notice there is not "chemistry" a word people like to use these days, than i'm not going to bother wasting my time and leading the guy on to thinking we can live happily for long time. i don't think it's fair for both.
I don't think you would've done, no... you were trying to be subtle. You referred to a 'culture of divorce' to which you obviously turn up your nose... Funny thing is, I only recognise it because I was the same... before my wife walked out. And look, I've just joined this 'culture of divorce' of which you speak...
You're right. People have no commitment these days, huh. :rolleyes:
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I don't think you would've done, no... you were trying to be subtle. You referred to a 'culture of divorce' to which you obviously turn up your nose... Funny thing is, I only recognise it because I was the same... before my wife walked out. And look, I've just joined this 'culture of divorce' of which you speak...
You're right. People have no commitment these days, huh. :rolleyes:
You're putting meaning in there due to your own interpretation of his post, doode.
You're putting meaning in there due to your own interpretation of his post, doode.
If I'm wrong, I'm prepared to stand corrected.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Well he/she said he/she didn't mean it that way.
I can understand that, given rising divorce rates and such. Doesn't mean everyone who gets divorced is taking an 'easy way out'. It just means more people are getting divorced nowadays than ever before (that's a generalization, I know, but it's true, isn't it?).
You're putting meaning in there due to your own interpretation of his post, doode.
not trying to be nit-picking, but what is the other interpretation? i instantly took it too be meant the way harmless read it too, is there a meaning ive missed?? (not trying to debate, just wana know what ive missed)
a culture of unhappy marriage can be even worse than a culture of divorce
Comments
And you're also 'just sayin' that it's people's own fault for not trying hard enough, right?
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
the part i bolded, that is IT imho. seriously. be sure you MEN it before you say it. doesn't mean you have to decide to move out tomorrow, but that you WILL follow through and let him know that. it is amazing what people in a relationship will do to avoid the 'reality' of their situation, or simply fail to see the seriousness of the issue. sounds like that may be what's up with your husband, but only you would know for sure. i truly think counseling is the *answer*...no it won't *fix* your marriage, but firstly, him agreeing would mean he too TRULY does love you and wants to stay married...and then simply counselling will help you BOTH see what's missing, and most importantly, COMMUNICATE it! it may not *save* your marriage...or it may...but what it will do is equip you for either scenario, and let you both think/feel you gave it your ALL. let's face it, you loved each other enough to get married and stay married 10 years....i think you owe it to yourselves to exhaust your options before walking away.
btw - i do have to say, anyone who thinks simply b/c children are NOT involved, that you don't owe your partner anything....well :mad: to me, first and foremost marriage is a COMMITMENT made between 2 people. if that also results in a family, sure, that adds to it and most definitely complicates things if you consider splitting. however, even withOUT children, i don't think anyone should take a cavalier and/or me first stance in regards to marriage. if ultimately it can't be fixed/saved/worked on....that's that....but i truly believe the commitment between 2 people deserves a bit more respect. it is NOT only about if children are involved, but also.....2 lives that have been bound together and what efforts are worth it, figuring out when it's time to keep at it, or time to walk away.
i wish you both the vesry BEST.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
pray about it , a lot of relationships end up in a rut because im not happy with myself, how could i ever be good enough for someone else
peace and love
dreamer in my dream
we got the guns
i love you,but im..............callin out.........callin out
While I'm not disagreeing with you, OP might not want to put the counselling on him in the form of an ultimatum.
if she is at the point of simply walking away, why not? personally, i think it's an excellent idea. i don't know how/what will work in her personal situation, i DO know of couples that it DID come down to that....and yea....it 'saved' their marriage, was just the impetus they needed, better/happier than ever....and sure, conversely, other couopes who after counseling realized, yea...time to walk away. to me it really clarifies/resolves the issue for both parties. to me, it sounds like her husband is ignoring/avoiding the seriousness of the issues/her feelings....and is simply not dealing. THIS would make him see, clear as day, it really IS that serious...and here is your chance to either try, or say fine....and walk away. just my 2 cents.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Know what I mean, Vern?
i do.
however, i am saying sometimes such tactics are necessary. from the little i can gather here, it appears as if the husband is blind to/ignoring/avoiding the real issues at hand. it sounds like it's been 'discussed' and dismissed, many times over with little to no effect. i also think there are ways of offering the 'ultimatum' that makes it feel much less like an actual ultimatum, and much more like 'hey! wake-up call! things really ARE this desperate, you have been disregarding my feelings, my attempts to work it out and communicate...so this is it! we NEED an objective third-party to help us back on track or there is nothing left, no other choice but to leave." i will add that obviously, only the OP knows or can imagine how her husband will react and the best way of approaching it all.
it DOES sound like while seriously considering leaving, that she also seriously would like to save her marriage. the fact that the title of this thread is "HOW do you save a relationship" speaks volumes to me. sounds pro-active and a true desire. hopefully, her husband WILL see just how dire the situation is, and that HE needs to act/participate in the salvage efforts. either way, i hope all involved find what they need/want. life is too short to be unhappy, but i also believe the commitment of marriage deserves every effort before giving up. once every effort is exhausted and it is STILL evident needs are unmet, someone is dissatisified/unhappy, time to go and find happiness elsewhere. however, counseling could be just the ticket back to why they fell in love and stayed together, and give them new tools to take with them to keep their marriage happy and satisfying. bottomline, it takes BOTH in the couple to own up to the issues, their part in em and the TRUE desire to work through it.
*i will add the caveat, IF she can suggest counseling without the ultimatum and get him there, GREAT! but if it really is so desperately far gone and he is so avoiding the reality, sometimes it 'the ultimatum' IS the last change/effort. as i said though, you have to KNOW that's what you'll do and follow through...so don't 'go there' until you are absolutely ready/aware that it really IS counseling or it's over.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i hope you all get counseling and work it out. (my first husband would not)
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Wow dude, that sounds so depressingly romantic.:)
If it was me i'd leave him, and i'd leave everything, because once the feeling is gone,its gone....any relationship after that is living together in a lie.
but that's just me.
i'm leaving my job soon, i've cut out majority of my fake friends....sure if i'd stay i would have moved on with my life and i would've appeared to have it all resonably paid job, maybe my own flat later on, lots of friends......but it would've been all on the outside. i'm also deciding whether to stay or not in my new relationship, but frankly my heart tells me i've made my mind up on that one too.
sure i'm loosing lots of things, but with it i will gain freedom and happiness.
and these are two things in my life i'm not willing so sacrifce.
the way i figure it out is like this:
if my heart doesn't beat faster or if i'm not happy to speak with my bf on the phone,
if i don't miss him,
if i don't think about him lots during the day, and so on.
then i shouldn't be in this kind of relationship.
How do you know that someone even exists that will fulfill that criteria anyway?
everyone has different needs. I sent you a PM.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
my ex did! and my current friend does who is much older than me and i'm not physically attracted to him.
a trial separation could be a way for you to tell.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
I would think that someone like this doesn't exist for everyone.
some people are really against counseling. sadly some see it as a weakness.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
If he's against counselling and won't do it, that is a different scenario.
actually my response to you was slightly wrong. you are talking about criteria, and i was talking about my feeling towards the person.
now:
i would consider a criteria to be, hair colour, type of music, height, weight..etc.
what i was talking about should not be called "criteria". i have different feelings towards different people. there were at least 3 people in my life to whom i felt this way.
oh, and btw, heart beating faster is a bit of my exaguration, so people don't take the heart comment to seriously.
no...i would have said it if that's what i meant.
that's alright, but i know a person like this exists, trust me i don't ask much from a guy, i turn a blind eye to certain things. but if i notice there is not "chemistry" a word people like to use these days, than i'm not going to bother wasting my time and leading the guy on to thinking we can live happily for long time. i don't think it's fair for both.
I don't think you would've done, no... you were trying to be subtle. You referred to a 'culture of divorce' to which you obviously turn up your nose... Funny thing is, I only recognise it because I was the same... before my wife walked out. And look, I've just joined this 'culture of divorce' of which you speak...
You're right. People have no commitment these days, huh. :rolleyes:
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
If I'm wrong, I'm prepared to stand corrected.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I can understand that, given rising divorce rates and such. Doesn't mean everyone who gets divorced is taking an 'easy way out'. It just means more people are getting divorced nowadays than ever before (that's a generalization, I know, but it's true, isn't it?).
not trying to be nit-picking, but what is the other interpretation? i instantly took it too be meant the way harmless read it too, is there a meaning ive missed?? (not trying to debate, just wana know what ive missed)
a culture of unhappy marriage can be even worse than a culture of divorce