Russia at it again

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Comments

  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    spyguy wrote:
    do you have or have seen solid proof of this or you believe it simply because alex told you to? I love facts. show me one.

    sure.
    How about SIGINT sources?

    or do you need something with "CNN" plastered all over it?
    :rolleyes:

    here,
    even this Pro-Georgian article in the IrishTimes admits it was a sneak attack by GEORGIA, and not Russia that was the immediate cause of this conflict.

    and one more source for you to pick apart.

    hell.
    one more, even.

    You may want to start realizing that while Alex Jones is as sensationalistic as possible,
    he is also largely accurate.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Nevermind
    Nevermind Posts: 1,006
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    sure.
    How about SIGINT sources?

    or do you need something with "CNN" plastered all over it?
    :rolleyes:

    here,
    even this Pro-Georgian article in the IrishTimes admits it was a sneak attack by GEORGIA, and not Russia that was the immediate cause of this conflict.

    and one more source for you to pick apart.

    hell.
    one more, even.

    You may want to start realizing that while Alex Jones is as sensationalistic as possible,
    he is also largely accurate.
    Your not going to get that info at Hareetz.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    sure.
    How about SIGINT sources?

    or do you need something with "CNN" plastered all over it?
    :rolleyes:

    here,
    even this Pro-Georgian article in the IrishTimes admits it was a sneak attack by GEORGIA, and not Russia that was the immediate cause of this conflict.

    and one more source for you to pick apart.

    hell.
    one more, even.

    You may want to start realizing that while Alex Jones is as sensationalistic as possible,
    he is also largely accurate.

    listen guy, this specific region has been fucked up for a very long time. I dont care what source you have, its very hard to tell exactly what is going on. you seem to jump at the chance to blame the US for this. all I'm saying is take in as much information as you and understand not all of it may be correct.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    spyguy wrote:
    listen guy, this specific region has been fucked up for a very long time. I dont care what source you have, its very hard to tell exactly what is going on. you seem to jump at the chance to blame the US for this. all I'm saying is take in as much information as you and understand not all of it may be correct.
    I don't care what source you have?

    :rolleyes:
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    _outlaw wrote:
    I don't care what source you have?

    :rolleyes:

    you again. whats your question?
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    do you have or have seen solid proof of this or you believe it simply because alex told you to? I love facts. show me one.
    spyguy wrote:
    I dont care what source you have, its very hard to tell exactly what is going on. you seem to jump at the chance to blame the US for this.
    I disagree with drifting here (obviously Georgia struck first but that's not a reason for Russia to start an occupation, especially after agreeing with a ceasefire) but at least he has the curtesy to use arguments and sources.
    So what exactly do you want, facts or no facts?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    I disagree with drifting here (obviously Georgia struck first but that's not a reason for Russia to start an occupation, especially after agreeing with a ceasefire) but at least he has the curtesy to use arguments and sources.
    So what exactly do you want, facts or no facts?

    thats my point, its very difficult to discern fact from fiction. we are talking about a region that is technically within Georgian borders but have russian citizens and russian "peacekeepers". driftin (aka alex jones) seem a little quick to blame georgia in this mess simply because Georgia is a US/Israel "puppet". how about taking into account Russia's history in the region. or the fact that drunken russian militias seemingly do what they please. its a fucked up place to say the least.
  • JordyWordy
    JordyWordy Posts: 2,261
    spyguy wrote:
    thats my point, its very difficult to discern fact from fiction. we are talking about a region that is technically within Georgian borders but have russian citizens and russian "peacekeepers". driftin (aka alex jones) seem a little quick to blame georgia in this mess simply because Georgia is a US/Israel "puppet". how about taking into account Russia's history in the region. or the fact that drunken russian militias seemingly do what they please. its a fucked up place to say the least.

    ah here, make a fucking effort.
    Discerning opinions from facts is difficult, and up to individuals. What you just did was disregard the information provided by drifting as fictional bullshit without giving it a chance. do you believe that all information on the internet is flawed or something? all articles have somewhat of a bias, its up to you to make up your mind. if you read driftings links and didnt agree, fair enough.

    responding to the links with petulant insults doesnt make any sense.

    Im not picking sides in this, but seeing as you raised the issue of the copmlicated history of the area, heres a question; why are the US there? Russia obviously has a history with the area because Ossetia is on Russian borders. Why are the US putting such an effort to supporting a government in Georgia as opposed to say....anywhere in Africa? countries that do not have vast natural resources yet to be developed?

    Also, if Russia used its historical interest as a reason to have troops in Ossetia, then by that logic, it could send troops into all former Soviet countries! ....the role of the Georgian government deserves to be in the spotlight. Ossetia (& Abkhazia) didnt just suddenly not want to be part of Georgia. The Georgians have been (not) dealing with that problem for 17 years, so i think its perfectly fair for the government to come under scrutiny
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    JordyWordy wrote:
    ah here, make a fucking effort.
    Discerning opinions from facts is difficult, and up to individuals. What you just did was disregard the information provided by drifting as fictional bullshit without giving it a chance. do you believe that all information on the internet is flawed or something? all articles have somewhat of a bias, its up to you to make up your mind. if you read driftings links and didnt agree, fair enough.

    calm down. I didnt disregard anything of the information alex jones posted. I just said to be very careful when discerning any information in this particular situation because of the complexity of it.

    JordyWordy wrote:
    Im not picking sides in this, but seeing as you raised the issue of the copmlicated history of the area, heres a question; why are the US there?

    where in Georgia? we're not really. we support a democratic free country. so what?
    JordyWordy wrote:
    Russia obviously has a history with the area because Ossetia is on Russian borders. Why are the US putting such an effort to supporting a government in Georgia as opposed to say....anywhere in Africa?

    I'd say we put a shitload more effort into Africa then georgia.
    JordyWordy wrote:
    Also, if Russia used its historical interest as a reason to have troops in Ossetia, then by that logic, it could send troops into all former Soviet countries!

    no, dont think so. South Ossetia has mostly russian citizens. I'm not sure of many areas outside this small region that is similar in complexity in regards to former soviet countries.

    JordyWordy wrote:
    ....the role of the Georgian government deserves to be in the spotlight. Ossetia (& Abkhazia) didnt just suddenly not want to be part of Georgia. The Georgians have been (not) dealing with that problem for 17 years, so i think its perfectly fair for the government to come under scrutiny

    I agree! I didn't say otherwise
  • JordyWordy
    JordyWordy Posts: 2,261
    spyguy wrote:
    I just said to be very careful when discerning any information in this particular situation because of the complexity of it.

    i didnt see that post.
    spyguy wrote:
    where in Georgia? we're not really. we support a democratic free country. so what?

    a democratic free country that happens to be on the border with Russia AND have ethnic dissent issues AND a major oil pipeline through it AND
    "So what" doesnt make that an alright thing to do. Its like a political middle finger to Russia.
    spyguy wrote:
    I'd say we put a shitload more effort into Africa then georgia.
    Do you mean for aid, or for securing democratic presidents and funding their military?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    JordyWordy wrote:
    a democratic free country that happens to be on the border with Russia AND have ethnic dissent issues AND a major oil pipeline through it AND
    "So what" doesnt make that an alright thing to do. Its like a political middle finger to Russia.

    backing a small country that has been bullied (and owned) by russia in the past is not such a bad thing. sometimes russia deserves the middle finger. (as do we)

    JordyWordy wrote:
    Do you mean for aid, or for securing democratic presidents and funding their military?

    both
  • JordyWordy
    JordyWordy Posts: 2,261
    spyguy wrote:
    backing a small country that has been bullied (and owned) by russia in the past is not such a bad thing. sometimes russia deserves the middle finger. (as do we)

    uhhh, that would sound like someone accepting that the US role here is antagonistic and flawed... which was what you were rejecting when drifting suggested it.
    im not trying to antagonise you, but your posts are totally inconsistent
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    JordyWordy wrote:
    uhhh, that would sound like someone accepting that the US role here is antagonistic and flawed... which was what you were rejecting when drifting suggested it.
    im not trying to antagonise you, but your posts are totally inconsistent

    I wasnt rejecting what drifting was saying.

    I see no problem with us supporting Georgia. we shouldn't stop doing so just because russia doesnt approve.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    o boy here we go

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html

    MOSCOW — Developing Story: Russia says its response to U.S. missile shield development will go beyond diplomacy. Russia's Foreign Ministry says the U.S. plan is part of an "extremely dangerous bundle" of military projects.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    spyguy wrote:
    o boy here we go
    that's what I said when I found out the U.S. was putting military systems in Eastern Europe.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    " And with Israel and the US providing military backing to Georgia, Russia appears set to respond in kind by supporting Syria."

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4573599.ece

    another 'cold war' coming?

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