It was taught in biology when we were 11 and 12 and maybe up till 14 (after that I didn't have biology anymore). From then on, it was usually a theme week. A doctor would come to our school to talk, or a woman who got pregnant when she was 14, or a guy with aids. There was lots of information...
that sounds cool... we just got a really embarrassed science teacher
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
ASSIST in the decision, or MAKE the decision? That's my primary question.
my personal belief here is that the decision has already been made... when the 13 year old had sex. while it is very true that it likely could have been an ill-informed and immature decision, it still is the ultimate decision that mattered.
i am one of those well-educated folks that believes abortion is murder that someone spoke of in this thread. i have to say that i don't agree with the "it's a woman's body, it's a woman's choice" pro-choice argument. IT IS a woman's choice whether or not to have sex with no birth control, yes. but in making that choice, you should be considering the consequences of that choice. once you are pregnant, you are no longer making choices about only your own body, you are choosing what to do with someone else's body, even though the baby's body may be temporarily inside of you. i think birth control consists of the things that you do to prevent pregnancy BEFORE pregnancy, not stop a pregnancy that's already underway. i just don't believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. i think that the responsibility for birth control needs to be taken earlier, when you're deciding whether or not to be sexually active.
but before you totally jump down my neck, i am also a lot more realistic than many pro-lifers because i understand that things like rape, and horrific birth defects that are detected before birth, etc, bring in a whole new set of problems. if you are raped, should you immediately take steps to abort a pregnancy (abortion pill, etc) whether you know you are pregnant or not? i dont know because i haven't been there. i dont know what options would be best in those situations, but in a situation where a woman was not allowed to choose whether or not to use proper birth control before conception, then i understand why abortion becomes an option.
when should birth control be taught? i know that when i was in elementary school, we had a girl in class who started her period before she was 9 years old. i see no problem with starting sex ed classes in the 3rd or 4th grade, and continuing it all the way through high school. i also see no problem with making condoms available to school kids, because kids are going to have sex if they really want to. but the biggest part of these sex ed classes still needs to be the consequences of what a newborn child, or some STDs will create in their lives.
but perhaps the strongest point of my beliefs is this. i am only telling you what is right FOR ME. i am not that guy that forces my beliefs on anyone. i am happy to give my opinion when asked (like this thread openly asked) but i would never walk up to any of you and tell you that you did wrong in these situations. why? because you are the one that lives with your own decisions, and you will hopefully do what is best for YOU, not anyone else. personally, i don't think that i could make that decision to abort a baby. that is what is right for me. now what's right for you? that's for each of you to choose. and that's why it's great to live in a society where we can each have our own beliefs and openly discuss them.
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
my personal belief here is that the decision has already been made... when the 13 year old had sex. while it is very true that it likely could have been an ill-informed and immature decision, it still is the ultimate decision that mattered.
i am one of those well-educated folks that believes abortion is murder that someone spoke of in this thread. i have to say that i don't agree with the "it's a woman's body, it's a woman's choice" pro-choice argument. IT IS a woman's choice whether or not to have sex with no birth control, yes. but in making that choice, you should be considering the consequences of that choice. once you are pregnant, you are no longer making choices about only your own body, you are choosing what to do with someone else's body, even though the baby's body may be temporarily inside of you. i think birth control consists of the things that you do to prevent pregnancy BEFORE pregnancy, not stop a pregnancy that's already underway. i just don't believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. i think that the responsibility for birth control needs to be taken earlier, when you're deciding whether or not to be sexually active.
but before you totally jump down my neck, i am also a lot more realistic than many pro-lifers because i understand that things like rape, and horrific birth defects that are detected before birth, etc, bring in a whole new set of problems. if you are raped, should you immediately take steps to abort a pregnancy (abortion pill, etc) whether you know you are pregnant or not? i dont know because i haven't been there. i dont know what options would be best in those situations, but in a situation where a woman was not allowed to choose whether or not to use proper birth control before conception, then i understand why abortion becomes an option.
when should birth control be taught? i know that when i was in elementary school, we had a girl in class who started her period before she was 9 years old. i see no problem with starting sex ed classes in the 3rd or 4th grade, and continuing it all the way through high school. i also see no problem with making condoms available to school kids, because kids are going to have sex if they really want to. but the biggest part of these sex ed classes still needs to be the consequences of what a newborn child, or some STDs will create in their lives.
but perhaps the strongest point of my beliefs is this. i am only telling you what is right FOR ME. i am not that guy that forces my beliefs on anyone. i am happy to give my opinion when asked (like this thread openly asked) but i would never walk up to any of you and tell you that you did wrong in these situations. why? because you are the one that lives with your own decisions, and you will hopefully do what is best for YOU, not anyone else. personally, i don't think that i could make that decision to abort a baby. that is what is right for me. now what's right for you? that's for each of you to choose. and that's why it's great to live in a society where we can each have our own beliefs and openly discuss them.
Hmm... lots to think about in this post.
I'm not going to turn this into an abortion debate. But here are my comments/questions for you:
1. Just for the record, you can't take the abortion pill unless you're sure you're pregnant.
2. I think it's mighty big of you to not force your beliefs on anyone.
3. Given your understanding of why abortion becomes an option when the pregnancy is a result of rape, and also your statement that it's up to others to choose whether or not abortion is an option for them, that seems to leave abortion on the table (since the girl in question is not you and since she may have been raped). With that option still on the table, who do you think should ultimately make the decision as to whether she has an abortion or continues the pregnancy?
4. Even if abortion were off the table, who should ultimately decide whether or not she places the child for adoption or keeps it?
but perhaps the strongest point of my beliefs is this. i am only telling you what is right FOR ME. i am not that guy that forces my beliefs on anyone. i am happy to give my opinion when asked (like this thread openly asked) but i would never walk up to any of you and tell you that you did wrong in these situations. why? because you are the one that lives with your own decisions, and you will hopefully do what is best for YOU, not anyone else. personally, i don't think that i could make that decision to abort a baby. that is what is right for me. now what's right for you? that's for each of you to choose. and that's why it's great to live in a society where we can each have our own beliefs and openly discuss them.
that's very very well said. I wish more people (on both sides) would have that opinion. I'm pro choice (not pro abortion) and I can understand why people ARE pro life but, until you know what someone's going through, none of us can judge.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm not going to turn this into an abortion debate. But here are my comments/questions for you:
1. Just for the record, you can't take the abortion pill unless you're sure you're pregnant.
2. I think it's mighty big of you to not force your beliefs on anyone.
3. Given your understanding of why abortion becomes an option when the pregnancy is a result of rape, and also your statement that it's up to others to choose whether or not abortion is an option for them, that seems to leave abortion on the table (since the girl in question is not you and since she may have been raped). With that option still on the table, who do you think should ultimately make the decision as to whether she has an abortion or continues the pregnancy?
4. Even if abortion were off the table, who should ultimately decide whether or not she places the child for adoption or keeps it?
1. i dont know much about the abortion pill. the only experience i have with that is a friend in college told me that his girlfriend took one after a night in which they had a condom break, and never took a pregnancy test. is a "morning after" pill and an abortion pill the same thing? i just assumed they were, i could be wrong.
2. thanks for the compliment. a big part of being christian that many christians seem to not understand sometimes is not to judge others. i think not judging others includes not trying to force someone to think the same way that you do. share your beliefs... sure. but don't get upset when someone disagrees, everyone is allowed to do that!
3. man... see that's the decision that would be tough. if the 13 year old had every chance to use a condom, birth control, etc, and chose not to, then i would hope that she would have a supportive family that would help her raise the kid, since she made the decision already to not use birth control. if she was raped, then hopefully she still has a support system around her who would help her to to be totally informed and help her make a decision whether or not to keep the baby. i dont think there's any way to say that one person, considering her age, has the ultimate go-or-no-go power. it's gotta be between her and her parents i would think.
4. i think the 13 year old and her parents have the rights to make this decision, since the reality is that her parents will be the one supporting this child for quite some time.
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
What is the saying? If you have a son you have to worry about one person's dick, if you have a daughter, you have to worry about everyone else's.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
1. i dont know much about the abortion pill. the only experience i have with that is a friend in college told me that his girlfriend took one after a night in which they had a condom break, and never took a pregnancy test. is a "morning after" pill and an abortion pill the same thing? i just assumed they were, i could be wrong.
Lot's of people think they're the same but they're actually completely different. The morning after pill is to prevent pregnancy, which is why you should take it as soon as possible (up to 5 days) after the condom breaks or whatever - before you get pregnant. (But since it's not always effective, you should always still take a pregnancy test a few weeks later.) The abortion pill is to actually end a confirmed pregnancy, up to 9 weeks of gestation.
2. thanks for the compliment. a big part of being christian that many christians seem to not understand sometimes is not to judge others. i think not judging others includes not trying to force someone to think the same way that you do. share your beliefs... sure. but don't get upset when someone disagrees, everyone is allowed to do that!
I think this is one of the most important things I have ever read on this message board. Thank you!
3. man... see that's the decision that would be tough. if the 13 year old had every chance to use a condom, birth control, etc, and chose not to, then i would hope that she would have a supportive family that would help her raise the kid, since she made the decision already to not use birth control. if she was raped, then hopefully she still has a support system around her who would help her to to be totally informed and help her make a decision whether or not to keep the baby. i dont think there's any way to say that one person, considering her age, has the ultimate go-or-no-go power. it's gotta be between her and her parents i would think.
See, this is the problem I'm asking about. Sometimes the girl and the parents disagree. When that happens, someone has to have the ultimate go-or-no-go power. And even though the law (where I am, at least) says it's the girl's decision, in reality the parents or other caregivers oftentimes still have the control. So really, the parents have a LOT of say in even who gets to make the decisions, regardless of what the decision is.
I once knew a pregnant 12-year-old who was in the custody of her adult sisters. They decided she would get an abortion and she didn't even realize that she had any choice.
I've also known a pregnant 13-year-old who was sure she wanted to have an abortion and didn't plan to even tell her parents. Once she was convinced to tell her mom, the mom decided that she would make the pregnancy decision herself and her decision was that the girl would have the baby.
What's particularly intersting to me are how people's reactions about who should decide changed based on each girl's decision. I knew people who were outraged that the 12-year-old was being made to have an abortion and said it should be her decision. But then when the 13-year-old came along in the opposite situation, those same people said it should be the mom's choice since the girl wasn't mature enough to make the decision. Personally, I think that if one believes the girl should have the final say - or if they believe the parents/caregivers should have the final say - then they shouldn't change their minds based on the decision that is made.
Of course, I've kind of strayed away from the main point now, which is the question of who should have the final say.
4. i think the 13 year old and her parents have the rights to make this decision, since the reality is that her parents will be the one supporting this child for quite some time.
For the adoption vs. parenthood decision, we still have the question of what to do when the girl and the parents disagree. I'm not too sure about what the law says regarding this and I'd be curious to find out. (I still think parents have powers over their children - if they choose to use them - regardless of what the law says though.)
For the adoption vs. parenthood decision, we still have the question of what to do when the girl and the parents disagree. I'm not too sure about what the law says regarding this and I'd be curious to find out. (I still think parents have powers over their children - if they choose to use them - regardless of what the law says though.)
check into emancipated minors. i would but i'm really late on a project. i think it may vary by state and in some cases pregnancy makes one an emancipated minor.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
check into emancipated minors. i would but i'm really late on a project. i think it may vary by state and in some cases pregnancy makes one an emancipated minor.
Good point - thanks!
Although, now that I think about it and sorry to split hairs, but if pregnancy or parenthood made one an emancipated minor, would that mean they were no longer emancipated if/when they had an abortion or placed the child for adoption? I don't think they could un-emancipate someone. Hmm... it's all so complicated! I'm gonna take a workshop on adoption in a couple of months and I'll ask about that.
Comments
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
my personal belief here is that the decision has already been made... when the 13 year old had sex. while it is very true that it likely could have been an ill-informed and immature decision, it still is the ultimate decision that mattered.
i am one of those well-educated folks that believes abortion is murder that someone spoke of in this thread. i have to say that i don't agree with the "it's a woman's body, it's a woman's choice" pro-choice argument. IT IS a woman's choice whether or not to have sex with no birth control, yes. but in making that choice, you should be considering the consequences of that choice. once you are pregnant, you are no longer making choices about only your own body, you are choosing what to do with someone else's body, even though the baby's body may be temporarily inside of you. i think birth control consists of the things that you do to prevent pregnancy BEFORE pregnancy, not stop a pregnancy that's already underway. i just don't believe that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. i think that the responsibility for birth control needs to be taken earlier, when you're deciding whether or not to be sexually active.
but before you totally jump down my neck, i am also a lot more realistic than many pro-lifers because i understand that things like rape, and horrific birth defects that are detected before birth, etc, bring in a whole new set of problems. if you are raped, should you immediately take steps to abort a pregnancy (abortion pill, etc) whether you know you are pregnant or not? i dont know because i haven't been there. i dont know what options would be best in those situations, but in a situation where a woman was not allowed to choose whether or not to use proper birth control before conception, then i understand why abortion becomes an option.
when should birth control be taught? i know that when i was in elementary school, we had a girl in class who started her period before she was 9 years old. i see no problem with starting sex ed classes in the 3rd or 4th grade, and continuing it all the way through high school. i also see no problem with making condoms available to school kids, because kids are going to have sex if they really want to. but the biggest part of these sex ed classes still needs to be the consequences of what a newborn child, or some STDs will create in their lives.
but perhaps the strongest point of my beliefs is this. i am only telling you what is right FOR ME. i am not that guy that forces my beliefs on anyone. i am happy to give my opinion when asked (like this thread openly asked) but i would never walk up to any of you and tell you that you did wrong in these situations. why? because you are the one that lives with your own decisions, and you will hopefully do what is best for YOU, not anyone else. personally, i don't think that i could make that decision to abort a baby. that is what is right for me. now what's right for you? that's for each of you to choose. and that's why it's great to live in a society where we can each have our own beliefs and openly discuss them.
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
Hmm... lots to think about in this post.
I'm not going to turn this into an abortion debate. But here are my comments/questions for you:
1. Just for the record, you can't take the abortion pill unless you're sure you're pregnant.
2. I think it's mighty big of you to not force your beliefs on anyone.
3. Given your understanding of why abortion becomes an option when the pregnancy is a result of rape, and also your statement that it's up to others to choose whether or not abortion is an option for them, that seems to leave abortion on the table (since the girl in question is not you and since she may have been raped). With that option still on the table, who do you think should ultimately make the decision as to whether she has an abortion or continues the pregnancy?
4. Even if abortion were off the table, who should ultimately decide whether or not she places the child for adoption or keeps it?
~D.K.S.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
1. i dont know much about the abortion pill. the only experience i have with that is a friend in college told me that his girlfriend took one after a night in which they had a condom break, and never took a pregnancy test. is a "morning after" pill and an abortion pill the same thing? i just assumed they were, i could be wrong.
2. thanks for the compliment. a big part of being christian that many christians seem to not understand sometimes is not to judge others. i think not judging others includes not trying to force someone to think the same way that you do. share your beliefs... sure. but don't get upset when someone disagrees, everyone is allowed to do that!
3. man... see that's the decision that would be tough. if the 13 year old had every chance to use a condom, birth control, etc, and chose not to, then i would hope that she would have a supportive family that would help her raise the kid, since she made the decision already to not use birth control. if she was raped, then hopefully she still has a support system around her who would help her to to be totally informed and help her make a decision whether or not to keep the baby. i dont think there's any way to say that one person, considering her age, has the ultimate go-or-no-go power. it's gotta be between her and her parents i would think.
4. i think the 13 year old and her parents have the rights to make this decision, since the reality is that her parents will be the one supporting this child for quite some time.
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
What is the saying? If you have a son you have to worry about one person's dick, if you have a daughter, you have to worry about everyone else's.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I think this is one of the most important things I have ever read on this message board. Thank you!
See, this is the problem I'm asking about. Sometimes the girl and the parents disagree. When that happens, someone has to have the ultimate go-or-no-go power. And even though the law (where I am, at least) says it's the girl's decision, in reality the parents or other caregivers oftentimes still have the control. So really, the parents have a LOT of say in even who gets to make the decisions, regardless of what the decision is.
I once knew a pregnant 12-year-old who was in the custody of her adult sisters. They decided she would get an abortion and she didn't even realize that she had any choice.
I've also known a pregnant 13-year-old who was sure she wanted to have an abortion and didn't plan to even tell her parents. Once she was convinced to tell her mom, the mom decided that she would make the pregnancy decision herself and her decision was that the girl would have the baby.
What's particularly intersting to me are how people's reactions about who should decide changed based on each girl's decision. I knew people who were outraged that the 12-year-old was being made to have an abortion and said it should be her decision. But then when the 13-year-old came along in the opposite situation, those same people said it should be the mom's choice since the girl wasn't mature enough to make the decision. Personally, I think that if one believes the girl should have the final say - or if they believe the parents/caregivers should have the final say - then they shouldn't change their minds based on the decision that is made.
Of course, I've kind of strayed away from the main point now, which is the question of who should have the final say.
For the adoption vs. parenthood decision, we still have the question of what to do when the girl and the parents disagree. I'm not too sure about what the law says regarding this and I'd be curious to find out. (I still think parents have powers over their children - if they choose to use them - regardless of what the law says though.)
check into emancipated minors. i would but i'm really late on a project. i think it may vary by state and in some cases pregnancy makes one an emancipated minor.
cross the river to the eastside
Good point - thanks!
Although, now that I think about it and sorry to split hairs, but if pregnancy or parenthood made one an emancipated minor, would that mean they were no longer emancipated if/when they had an abortion or placed the child for adoption? I don't think they could un-emancipate someone. Hmm... it's all so complicated! I'm gonna take a workshop on adoption in a couple of months and I'll ask about that.
Hope all goes well with your project!