Pregnant 13-year-old

angelica

godpt3 wrote:

So does that make rape acceptable?

The situation is exactly what it is, independent of my opinion, of your opinion, or of anyone's opinion. My concern would be in finding ways to deal with the situation to the greatest good for all involved.

mammasan

angelica wrote:

Oh, as I said, hopefully she is provided support, unbiased information, etc.

What to you constitutes the 'say in the decision making process' that you think the parents of this girl should have?

In my view, I can see that the parents need to make it clear to the girl what they can and will offer in terms of financial and other support through the pregnancy and birth etc. And to also let her know what they will not/can not support. And that contributes to the decision the girl makes, just like as if I were making such a decision as a grown adult...I need to understand my choices and the outcome of my decisions.

Well the "say" that I am speaking of is advice and laying down some ground rules. If I have to raise and support my 13 year old daughters child she can bet her ass that she is not going to be living the carefree lifestyle that many 13 year olds live. Then again I really don't have to worry about this, I'm only speaking in hypothetical, since I don't have a daughter. If any of my boys came to me and told me that they got their girlfriend pregnant they would be doing some hard labor to repay any financial obligations I would have to cover until they where old enough.

angelica

mammasan wrote:

Well the "say" that I am speaking of is advice and laying down some ground rules. If I have to raise and support my 13 year old daughters child she can bet her ass that she is not going to be living the carefree lifestyle that many 13 year olds live.

And that's fair.

I don't think anyone 'has to' support their 13 year old daughter's child. I think they have the option to do so, or not to do so. And I agree, if I were making such a decision, I would be clear what my contribution would be.

Ultimately, we don't need to "force" the parents of the 13 year old to be accountable, as they already are...they will live with the consequences of how they cope with the pregnancy, including how that affects the situation. Whether positively or negatively.

Ultimately, her decisions, given all the variables are always hers, and I would support that, and encourage her as best I could.

blackredyellow

angelica wrote:

And that's fair.

I don't think anyone 'has to' support their 13 year old daughter's child. I think they have the option to do so, or not to do so. And I agree, if I were making such a decision, I would be clear what my contribution would be.

Ultimately, we don't need to "force" the parents of the 13 year old to be accountable, as they already are...they will live with the consequences of how they cope with the pregnancy, including how that affects the situation. Whether positively or negatively.

Ultimately, her decisions, given all the variables are always hers, and I would support that, and encourage her as best I could.

But someone does have to support a 13-year-old's child... a 13-year-old cannot, in our society, support a child. The vast majority of the time, the ones who support that child are the grand parents.

Cosmo

DixieN wrote:

What makes you think the parents didn't talk about birth control? Parents can talk to kids 'til they're blue in the face, but kids will do whatever they want to do. Hopefully they'll be sensible, but there are no guarantees. When a 13-year-old decides to have sex, that 13-year-old is very likely to end up pregnant for at least two reasons: no method is 100% AND 13-year-olds can't remember to brush their teeth correctly, no less use birth control correctly.

In my circle of immediate friends, I had several friends who decided to have sex at a young, young age. Every single one of them ended up having to have an abortion at some point. Every one of them. That says something about 13-year-olds and birth control. And even if it did not, my friends said it aloud themselves. They were wild, crazy and not very bright about birth control because pregnancy, at 13, is something that doesn't happen to you--it happens to "someone else."

Should the 13-year-old be taken from the home? Maybe. Was it an abusive home? The fact the kid decided to have sex has nothing to do with whether she has a good home or not.

Should the 13-year-old decide by herself what to do? If she's independently wealthy. Should a 13-year-old be free to saddle her parents with, essentially, another baby they never asked for? I'm not sure what the answer is to that. Not much in life is fair. Going strictly by fairness, no. But, I think that parents must realize when they decide to have a baby that that baby could end up saddling them with other babies--and in about 12 to 13 years--that they don't even have the pleasure of making themselves. Parenthood means that life makes choices for you that you have very little say in. It's why some people choose to remain childless. They want the control over their lives that having a child really does take from you.

...
*Some* kids will do whatever they want to do. Others listen to their parents because their parents don't only tell them what they should and shouldn't do... they are examples of what they preach. Kids aren't stupid... they can detect bullshit when they see it spewing from the mouth of a bullshitter. Honesty from an honest parent will probably go a lot further with a young kid, than orders and rules. Kids shouldn't be told they can 'Be whatever they want to be when they grow up'. They need to know that whatever their plans are... they can all disappear if they make bad decisions along the way.
The parents cannot wash their hands of this. They did play some role in this. Someone has to talk to the kids about birth control... and it seems like the age to talk about it gets younger and younger. It doesn't do a 13 year old any good to tell her about birth control if she is already pregnant. The parents need to be honest here and give her all of the options open to her and support her, whatever she decides to do. If they are strict anti-abortionists, they need to explain the full consequences of adoption or parenthood. If she decides to abort the pregnancy... they need explain the consequences of that decision. Either way, they need to support her.
Honesty and truth are not always easy and are not always pretty. And Yes... it is possible that the parents warned the girl from age 11. But, you need to keep up on them. They are kids... the parent is supposed to be the adult in this situation. My guess, when this girl is 24... she is going to drill birth control into the head of her 11 year old. At least, I hope she does.
...
As for your friends... you said, "They were wild, crazy and not very bright about birth control because pregnancy". That sums it all up right there. They weren't very bright about birth control because the adults in their lives failed to be honest with them and explain the full consequences of unprotected sex.

angelica

blackredyellow wrote:

But someone does have to support a 13-year-old's child... a 13-year-old cannot, in our society, support a child. The vast majority of the time, the ones who support that child are the grand parents.

I've seen underage children have babies without the support of their families, financial and otherwise. I was one myself.

meme

godpt3 wrote:

What amazes me is how far we have slipped as a moral society... to the point where some people would see a pregnant 13 year old as anything other than completely unacceptable.

What does it mean "unacceptable"? Force an abortion? Kill the girl? Kill the parents? Surely there are better ways to face such an unfortunate situation. And no, taking the girl from her family without any knowledge of context is not one of them.

erickvazdel

godpt3 wrote:

If she's 13 and pregnant, she needs to be removed from her home, IMMEDIATELY. And then the courts need to get involved.

Their parents can be the greatest parents in the world, probably they talked to her about birth control and all that stuff , anyway the girl can do anything she wants to do.

Come on , we all had 13 years old ! At that age you just don't care about the world, and your parents are always wrong for you.

BamaPJFan

scb wrote:

Who should have the final say in her pregnancy decision (parenthood, adoption, or abortion)? Her? Her parents? A doctor? A judge? The "father" of the "baby"? Does her gestational age change your answer? What if she were 15? 17? 11?

Welcome to my world in the South where it's the norm for low-income, middle school and junior high aged girls to have more than one baby. And then it's us, the American taxpayers, who have to foot the entire bill to take care of these unwanted children.

My mom was a school nurse in the mid-80's to early 90's and during the 1986/1987 school year, 34 (yes, that's not a typo) eighth and ninth grade girls at her school were pregnant that year, with several of the girls on their second or third child. And these are the type of people who get pregnant so that they have a government welfare check; they don't won't an abortion.

angelica

BamaPJFan wrote:

And these are the type of people who get pregnant so that they have a government welfare check; they don't won't an abortion.

In your opinion, apparently. Psychological, sociological and evolutionary study says otherwise.

Dude, we've gotta stop meeting like this...

BamaPJFan

angelica wrote:

In your opinion, apparently. Psychological, sociological and evolutionary study says otherwise.

Dude, we've gotta stop meeting like this...

I'm all about evolution since anthropology was my major in college, but from a practical standpoint regarding what I'm talking about, it's a cultural thing. These 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old girls get pregnant so they can get that "check" every month. It's a status thing.

Angelica, you need to leave the cozy confines of Canada and come spend about a month with me in the Heart of Dixie and you'll see what I'm talking about.

angelica

BamaPJFan wrote:

I'm all about evolution since anthropology was my major in college, but from a practical standpoint regarding what I'm talking about, it's a cultural thing. These 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old girls get pregnant so they can get that "check" every month. It's a status thing.

Opinion.

Angelica, you need to leave the cozy confines of Canada and come spend about a month with me in the Heart of Dixie and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I was a pregnant teen. Many of my friends were pregnant teens. I paid huge consequences for my actions. My experience also sent me to learn to understand these cycles, where they stem from, and towards creating practical, healthy change for myself and for others. Ignorance and lack of understanding fuels/perpetuates these cycles. I'm interested in adaptive choices, and ending the cycles.

Cosmo

BamaPJFan wrote:

Welcome to my world in the South where it's the norm for low-income, middle school and junior high aged girls to have more than one baby. And then it's us, the American taxpayers, who have to foot the entire bill to take care of these unwanted children.

My mom was a school nurse in the mid-80's to early 90's and during the 1986/1987 school year, 34 (yes, that's not a typo) eighth and ninth grade girls at her school were pregnant that year, with several of the girls on their second or third child. And these are the type of people who get pregnant so that they have a government welfare check; they don't won't an abortion.

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

And is it possible that they were much earlier sexually assaulted by uncle so-and-so as a 5 year old, or by good ole neighbour such and such?

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder...

One can be highly well-educated academically and ethically and also believe abortion is murder.

Fahka

godpt3 wrote:

If she's 13 and pregnant, she needs to be removed from her home, IMMEDIATELY. And then the courts need to get involved.

This is a very ignorant comment. First off, you apparently have never been in custody of "the state" - it is no place for ANY child much less a pregnant one.(unless of course that child was in immediate danger or someone in the family was hurting them) A pregnant 13 year old isnt all that shocking. Hell , a few years back it was a way of life. Many of your grandmothers or great grandmothers probably started their families around the same age.

Cosmo

angelica wrote:

One can be highly well-educated academically and ethically and also believe abortion is murder.

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

I understand.

BamaPJFan

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

Not in the case of the folks who I'm referring to. These are folks who live in the housing projects who have sex instilled into them at an early age and who are led to believe that if you get pregnant at an early age, then it's more than exceptable because "Uncle Sam" will take care of everything. And then it's cyclical; their children turn around and have babies at age 13 and so on and so forth. Children having children. Obama should make this one of his top priorities in his campaign, but I haven't heard him mention anything related to teenage pregnancy and the burden it places on all those involved, including us taxpayers. He should put his money where his mouth is. If he claims to be a former community activist, then he needs to step up to the plate on this issue.

It's quite obvious angelica isn't in the category of people who I'm referring in the paragraph above.

Bottomline, a 13 year old isn't mature enough to make abortion decisions. A parent or guardian must be involved in order to assist in that situation.

BamaPJFan

Cosmo wrote:

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

You're on the right track about the Bible Belt statement, but it's not a blanket statement to be applied to everyone. When my mom taught sex ed, the schools received criticism primarily from lower-middle class/rural white people. Black parents and higher educated/higher income white parents supported sex ed being taught in the classrooms.