Pregnant 13-year-old

BamaPJFan

angelica wrote:

In your opinion, apparently. Psychological, sociological and evolutionary study says otherwise.

Dude, we've gotta stop meeting like this...

I'm all about evolution since anthropology was my major in college, but from a practical standpoint regarding what I'm talking about, it's a cultural thing. These 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old girls get pregnant so they can get that "check" every month. It's a status thing.

Angelica, you need to leave the cozy confines of Canada and come spend about a month with me in the Heart of Dixie and you'll see what I'm talking about.

angelica

BamaPJFan wrote:

I'm all about evolution since anthropology was my major in college, but from a practical standpoint regarding what I'm talking about, it's a cultural thing. These 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year old girls get pregnant so they can get that "check" every month. It's a status thing.

Opinion.

Angelica, you need to leave the cozy confines of Canada and come spend about a month with me in the Heart of Dixie and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I was a pregnant teen. Many of my friends were pregnant teens. I paid huge consequences for my actions. My experience also sent me to learn to understand these cycles, where they stem from, and towards creating practical, healthy change for myself and for others. Ignorance and lack of understanding fuels/perpetuates these cycles. I'm interested in adaptive choices, and ending the cycles.

Cosmo

BamaPJFan wrote:

Welcome to my world in the South where it's the norm for low-income, middle school and junior high aged girls to have more than one baby. And then it's us, the American taxpayers, who have to foot the entire bill to take care of these unwanted children.

My mom was a school nurse in the mid-80's to early 90's and during the 1986/1987 school year, 34 (yes, that's not a typo) eighth and ninth grade girls at her school were pregnant that year, with several of the girls on their second or third child. And these are the type of people who get pregnant so that they have a government welfare check; they don't won't an abortion.

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

And is it possible that they were much earlier sexually assaulted by uncle so-and-so as a 5 year old, or by good ole neighbour such and such?

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder...

One can be highly well-educated academically and ethically and also believe abortion is murder.

Fahka

godpt3 wrote:

If she's 13 and pregnant, she needs to be removed from her home, IMMEDIATELY. And then the courts need to get involved.

This is a very ignorant comment. First off, you apparently have never been in custody of "the state" - it is no place for ANY child much less a pregnant one.(unless of course that child was in immediate danger or someone in the family was hurting them) A pregnant 13 year old isnt all that shocking. Hell , a few years back it was a way of life. Many of your grandmothers or great grandmothers probably started their families around the same age.

Cosmo

angelica wrote:

One can be highly well-educated academically and ethically and also believe abortion is murder.

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

angelica

Cosmo wrote:

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

I understand.

BamaPJFan

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is it possiblre that they (and the guys that knock them up) are completely ignorant and believe Abortion is Murder... so, the consequence is to go ahead and have the kid and get in the Welfare Row?

Not in the case of the folks who I'm referring to. These are folks who live in the housing projects who have sex instilled into them at an early age and who are led to believe that if you get pregnant at an early age, then it's more than exceptable because "Uncle Sam" will take care of everything. And then it's cyclical; their children turn around and have babies at age 13 and so on and so forth. Children having children. Obama should make this one of his top priorities in his campaign, but I haven't heard him mention anything related to teenage pregnancy and the burden it places on all those involved, including us taxpayers. He should put his money where his mouth is. If he claims to be a former community activist, then he needs to step up to the plate on this issue.

It's quite obvious angelica isn't in the category of people who I'm referring in the paragraph above.

Bottomline, a 13 year old isn't mature enough to make abortion decisions. A parent or guardian must be involved in order to assist in that situation.

BamaPJFan

Cosmo wrote:

...
I meant to say, "... completely ignorant about Birth Control and... ".
Remember, we're talking about the Bible Belt, here. Sex Education is as evil as Abortion and homosexuality.

You're on the right track about the Bible Belt statement, but it's not a blanket statement to be applied to everyone. When my mom taught sex ed, the schools received criticism primarily from lower-middle class/rural white people. Black parents and higher educated/higher income white parents supported sex ed being taught in the classrooms.

Cosmo

BamaPJFan wrote:

Not in the case of the folks who I'm referring to. These are folks who live in the housing projects who have sex instilled into them at an early age and who are led to believe that if you get pregnant at an early age, then it's more than exceptable because "Uncle Sam" will take care of everything. And then it's cyclical; their children turn around and have babies at age 13 and so on and so forth. Children having children. Obama should make this one of his top priorities in his campaign, but I haven't heard him mention anything related to teenage pregnancy and the burden it places on all those involved, including us taxpayers. He should put his money where his mouth is. If he claims to be a former community activist, then he needs to step up to the plate on this issue.

It's quite obvious angelica isn't in the category of people who I'm referring in the paragraph above.

Bottomline, a 13 year old isn't mature enough to make abortion decisions. A parent or guardian must be involved in order to assist in that situation.

...
Then... whose to blame? The State that continues to feed the cycle... or the people who see the system as a non-stop flow of cash that no one is willing to stop? You almost can't blame poor people from grabbing handfuls of cash from a barrel that some idiot keeps filling... right?

Cosmo

BamaPJFan wrote:

You're on the right track about the Bible Belt statement, but it's not a blanket statement to be applied to everyone. When my mom taught sex ed, the schools received criticism primarily from lower-middle class/rural white people. Black parents and higher educated/higher income white parents supported sex ed being taught in the classrooms.

...
and i'm going out on a limb here... I bet the excuse that, 'The parents should be the ones teaching their kids' was the most commonly heard, right? That whole 'Family Values' crap that only exists in black and white sit-coms from the 50s.
Well... what if the Parent is a complete idiot? More often than not.. Father Knows Diddly-Squat. What does an idiot parent teach a kid?
Answer: How to become an idiot.

ForestBrain

IMO.....


It's nobody's freakin' business but the girl's, the baby's father's, and the parents' of the kids.

That said, a pregnant 13 year old is sad news. People have no self-control.

BamaPJFan

Cosmo wrote:

...
Then... whose to blame? The State that continues to feed the cycle... or the people who see the system as a non-stop flow of cash that no one is willing to stop? You almost can't blame poor people from grabbing handfuls of cash from a barrel that some idiot keeps filling... right?

Before long, there won't be enough tax dollars to fund government programs like welfare.... unless we substantially increase taxes across the board on virtually everybody (not just the wealthy).

angelica

BamaPJFan wrote:

Before long, there won't be enough tax dollars to fund government programs like welfare.... unless we substantially increase taxes across the board on virtually everybody (not just the wealthy).

If you are saying the whole system could use a complete overhaul, I agree.

This is independant of the children in question.

angelica

BamaPJFan wrote:

Not in the case of the folks who I'm referring to. These are folks who live in the housing projects who have sex instilled into them at an early age and who are led to believe that if you get pregnant at an early age, then it's more than exceptable because "Uncle Sam" will take care of everything. And then it's cyclical; their children turn around and have babies at age 13 and so on and so forth. Children having children. Obama should make this one of his top priorities in his campaign, but I haven't heard him mention anything related to teenage pregnancy and the burden it places on all those involved, including us taxpayers. He should put his money where his mouth is. If he claims to be a former community activist, then he needs to step up to the plate on this issue.

It's quite obvious angelica isn't in the category of people who I'm referring in the paragraph above.

It in part due to Canada's amazing social programs that I was enabled to break the cycles, including preventing my daughter from perpetuating these cycles. Still, I know first hand what ignorance, blame etc. caused me day in and out for the middle years where I grappled as a single mother, living in poverty, with horrifying mental illness. I know what "society" and the "good (but ignorant) opinions of others" did to exacerbate my situation, with stigma. What I do know is that it was never, ever my goal to get pregnant to get that monthly check. I deliberately got pregnant at age 17, with my 15 year old boyfriend, and naively believed that we would be together forever...as he believed. (fortunately, and ironically maybe, both he and I are supposedly above average in intelligence and both skipped a grade in school, even though we both eventually dropped out. We were fortunate enough to have enough healthy supports and understanding that we were enabled to turn our lives around later in life. We did not stem from the unwed parent/poverty cycles to begin with. And yet, family dysfunctional patterns took us down that road anyway. There but for the Grace of God go I... or you....or anyone)

just tina

godpt3 wrote:

regardless of the age of the father, the child needs to be removed from the home and placed into protective custody.

just curious, are you a parent?

_

godpt3 wrote:

I don't need to know anything about the situation. The fact that the child is only 13 is enough. Obviously, the parent(s) aren't capable of doing their jobs properly. Determine the father via a DNA test and then charge the bastard with rape/incest.

What if the girl is already a ward of the state?

What if she's 15? Or 17? Or 14?

_

mammasan wrote:

Well the decision should be left in the hands of the pregnant girl, the father, and their parents. I definitely think the parents should be involved because chances are they will be the one's responsible for raising and providing for the baby.

But what should happen when the girl and her parents disagree about what to do?

_

BamaPJFan wrote:

Bottomline, a 13 year old isn't mature enough to make abortion decisions. A parent or guardian must be involved in order to assist in that situation.

ASSIST in the decision, or MAKE the decision? That's my primary question.

Heineken Helen

Cosmo wrote:

...
It all depends on the girl... and the father.
They *might* need guidence from the parents... although, the parents need to take on some of the responsibility for not talking to the kids about birth control.

AT 13? :eek: what age are we suggesting now that we start talking to kids about birth control?

Heineken Helen

godpt3 wrote:

I don't need to know anything about the situation. The fact that the child is only 13 is enough. Obviously, the parent(s) aren't capable of doing their jobs properly. Determine the father via a DNA test and then charge the bastard with rape/incest.

don't be ridiculous... you have to allow kids some freedom. Kids have plenty of influences other than their parents that their parents may not be aware of. What if it happened at school? Or if she was raped? You're being far too insistent on this. In a lot of cases it could be that she was just badly brought up... but there are plenty of other scenarios that could happen. Don't take a kid away from her home and family just cos of a communication breakdown.

Heineken Helen

mammasan wrote:

Well the decision should be left in the hands of the pregnant girl, the father, and their parents. I definitely think the parents should be involved because chances are they will be the one's responsible for raising and providing for the baby.

but do you think they should have the right to force her into having an abortion? :eek:

Heineken Helen

DixieN wrote:

What makes you think the parents didn't talk about birth control? Parents can talk to kids 'til they're blue in the face, but kids will do whatever they want to do. Hopefully they'll be sensible, but there are no guarantees. When a 13-year-old decides to have sex, that 13-year-old is very likely to end up pregnant for at least two reasons: no method is 100% AND 13-year-olds can't remember to brush their teeth correctly, no less use birth control correctly.

In my circle of immediate friends, I had several friends who decided to have sex at a young, young age. Every single one of them ended up having to have an abortion at some point. Every one of them. That says something about 13-year-olds and birth control. And even if it did not, my friends said it aloud themselves. They were wild, crazy and not very bright about birth control because pregnancy, at 13, is something that doesn't happen to you--it happens to "someone else."

Should the 13-year-old be taken from the home? Maybe. Was it an abusive home? The fact the kid decided to have sex has nothing to do with whether she has a good home or not.

VERY well said.

Heineken Helen

BamaPJFan wrote:

Not in the case of the folks who I'm referring to. These are folks who live in the housing projects who have sex instilled into them at an early age and who are led to believe that if you get pregnant at an early age, then it's more than exceptable because "Uncle Sam" will take care of everything. And then it's cyclical; their children turn around and have babies at age 13 and so on and so forth. Children having children. Obama should make this one of his top priorities in his campaign, but I haven't heard him mention anything related to teenage pregnancy and the burden it places on all those involved, including us taxpayers. He should put his money where his mouth is. If he claims to be a former community activist, then he needs to step up to the plate on this issue.

It's quite obvious angelica isn't in the category of people who I'm referring in the paragraph above.

Bottomline, a 13 year old isn't mature enough to make abortion decisions. A parent or guardian must be involved in order to assist in that situation.

Sorry, and how exactly do they have sex instilled into them at an early age?

So you reckon a 13 year old should have an abortion forced on her? Yep, THAT will solve the problem!

Collin

Heineken Helen wrote:

AT 13? :eek: what age are we suggesting now that we start talking to kids about birth control?

We had sex ed from our 11 to 18. Sexual education was part of our biology class when we were 11 and 12. They taught us about all different kinds of birth control.

After that we had a "sexual education and safe sex week" evey year. And when we were 16, everyone got free condoms, which was awesome!

chime

Collin wrote:

We had sex ed from our 11 to 18. Sexual education was part of our biology class when we were 11 and 12. They taught us about all different kinds of birth control.

After that we had a "sexual education and safe sex week" evey year. And when we were 16, everyone got free condoms, which was awesome!

Yeah we had sex ed from 11 and at 15 I was a 'peer educator' teaching sex ed to 11-13 year olds as it was felt they were more likely to listen and take the class seriously if taught by people they knew and who were close to their own age.

... and Helen I don't know if there is a right age ... I was taught about condoms aged about 7 or 8 ... I already knew 'where babies came from'. My younger sister found one (in it's packet) asked my Mum what it was so she explained. We never got any of that stork stuff ... you asked a question you got the truth.

EDIT: I suppose the first 'sex ed' type class I had was age 9 about periods as we had a girl in our class who started her periods.

Heineken Helen

Chime wrote:

Yeah we had sex ed from 11 and at 15 I was a 'peer educator' teaching sex ed to 11-13 year olds as it was felt they were more likely to listen and take the class seriously if taught by people they knew and who were close to their own age.

... and Helen I don't know if there is a right age ... I was taught about condoms aged about 7 or 8 ... I already knew 'where babies came from'. My younger sister found one (in it's packet) asked my Mum what it was so she explained. We never got any of that stork stuff ... you asked a question you got the truth.

EDIT: I suppose the first 'sex ed' type class I had was age 9 about periods as we had a girl in our class who started her periods.

Hmm... well I don't remember tbh all I remember was the headmaster giving our class a lecture when we were about ten about the difference between sex and gender... cos anytime someone said the word sex in relation to male/female everyone would laugh. So yeh, you could be right. I think we learned properly in biology in 1st year when we were about 12

chime

I notice both you and Collin were taught your sex ed in biology.

We were taught ours in PSD/PSE (I went to more than one high school )... personal and social development/education. Which was a once weekly class through out school and was where you also did career development and social responsibility type education as well.

Collin

Chime wrote:

I notice both you and Collin were taught your sex ed in biology.

We were taught ours in PSD/PSE (I went to more than one high school )... personal and social development/education. Which was a once weekly class through out school and was where you also did career development and social responsibility type education as well.

It was taught in biology when we were 11 and 12 and maybe up till 14 (after that I didn't have biology anymore). From then on, it was usually a theme week. A doctor would come to our school to talk, or a woman who got pregnant when she was 14, or a guy with aids. There was lots of information...