Right...so you don't know what it is to put your faith in God's will...Whether one is arrogant, or wants one's 'side' to win, or whether one thinks God is naturally on one's side....putting your faith in God's will supercedes all of that and is a category all it's own.
oh but i do know angelica. all one needs to do is look at the psychology of people. one does not have to believe in the existence of a God to determine peoples motives in regards to their enacting some divine advantage. or at least trying to. and if you want to get down to it, it can be argued that it was for this exact reason WHY palins side didnt win. her arrogance of thinking God would choose sides.
it is clear to me that when palin spoke of Gods will being done she meant in regards to her side winning this election. this is not a slight against God but against an arrogant person.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh but i do know angelica. all one needs to do is look at the psychology of people. one does not have to believe in the existence of a God to determine peoples motives in regards to their enacting some divine advantage. or at least trying to. and if you want to get down to it, it can be argued that it was for this exact reason WHY palins side didnt win. her arrogance of thinking God would choose sides.
it is clear to me that when palin spoke of Gods will being done she meant in regards to her side winning this election. this is not a slight against God but against an arrogant person.
one can argue anything they like. You are obviously reading into Sarah's intent. As am I.
A separate issue, though, is what it means to put one's faith in God's will. It's beyond ego. It's literally letting go of the ego needs and trusting a Higher Power. The psychology is clear.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
one can argue anything they like. You are obviously reading into Sarah's intent. As am I.
A separate issue, though, is what it means to put one's faith in God's will. It's beyond ego. It's literally letting go of the ego needs and trusting a Higher Power. The psychology is clear.
I agree, the pathology is clear.
Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
one can argue anything they like. You are obviously reading into Sarah's intent. As am I.
A separate issue, though, is what it means to put one's faith in God's will. It's beyond ego. It's literally letting go of the ego needs and trusting a Higher Power. The psychology is clear.
of course i am reading into palins intent. thats all there is in this.
what about letting go of ego enough to realise that God doesnt even give a shit. that is assuming he even exists, which i do not believe he does.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
once we get into the canyons.....i will introduce you to God's will, in the form of slickrock upside the head.
no worries though....i am trained in the arts of first aid.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
once we get into the canyons.....i will introduce you to God's will, in the form of slickrock upside the head.
no worries though....i am trained in the arts of first aid.
Good, because you'll need it. haha. How ya' been?
Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
all is good on the kansas front....we are finalizing our group for the durango to moab ride. we still have 3 spaces available and we will be leaving the weekend after the 4th of July. check your calander and let me know. if you can not make the ride maybe we could meet up in moab and then into the canyons.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
What I'm seeing is what is acknowledged in science or a court of law: empirics. Facts. The face value of what she said.
When someone can show her saying that God wanted her to win, in this instance, then we'll have the empirical facts proving your case.
there can be no empirical fact when God is involved. his existence relies purely on faith, for which there is no empirical evidence. he is unobservable.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's literally letting go of the ego needs and trusting a Higher Power. The psychology is clear.
I agree, the pathology is clear.
In psychology, it's acknowledged that the vast majority believe the ego to be who they are. And yet from a psychological standpoint, the ego is considered to be the tip of the iceberg of who we really are. So, to surrender to the "energy" of who we really are beyond the ego, is actually considered far from pathological--it's considered psychologically healthy.
Clinging to the ego, and one's idea of who one is is actually what is considered ego-centered, fragmented, unindividuated, etc.
I'm not saying Sarah Palin is close to being individuated or healthy. What I am saying is surrendering to the power beyond the ego is very healthy, and sought after and achieved by very few, due to ego-centrism.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
there can be no empirical fact when God is involved. his existence relies purely on faith, for which there is no empirical evidence. he is unobservable.
When you show me Sarah's words saying God was on her side in this instance, then I'll discuss it. Until then it's not been shown that she said that in this case.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
When you show me Sarah's words saying God was on her side in this instance, then I'll discuss it. Until then it's not been shown that she said that in this case.
i swear one day im gonna kill that man
what is my intent in this statement?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm personally not interested in a rousing game of "my-way-of-conceptualizing-the-deeper-meanings-of-reality-is-more-right-than-yours' or "my-interpretation-of-what-was-said-is-right-yours-is-wrong".
Therefore, if anyone else has a quote regarding this situation, where Sarah Palin actually says God wants her and her side to win, I will concede this point.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm personally not interested in a rousing game of "my-way-of-conceptualizing-the-deeper-meanings-of-reality-is-more-right-than-yours' or "my-interpretation-of-what-was-said-is-right-yours-is-wrong".
Therefore, if anyone else has a quote regarding this situation, where Sarah Palin actually says God wants her and her side to win, I will concede this point.
the thing is angelica you wont even acknowledge the possibility that her intent was for God to be on her side? you just dismiss it outright.
sure she could have meant Gods will in regards to the greater good of the country. i am in no doubt as to her intent. for me with all i know of this woman and the politricks in play, it is clear she was hoping/ praying/wishing for a republican win. and that it be delivered by divine intervention.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
the thing is angelica you wont even acknowledge the possibility that her intent was for God to be on her side? you just dismiss it outright.
sure she could have meant Gods will in regards to the greater good of the country. i am in no doubt as to her intent. for me with all i know of this woman and the politricks in play, it is clear she was hoping/ praying/wishing for a republican win. and that it be delivered by divine intervention.
Quoted for truth... you have made outstanding points, but angelica really just likes to dance around every topic.. I think it is clear we all, with a rational mind know EXACTLY what Sarah Palin and Dobson were refering to when they discussed god's will for America... because to them god is a republican that views them, aka the Christian right republican party, or GOP.. God's Official Party as the superior beings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
Quoted for truth... you have made outstanding points, but angelica really just likes to dance around every topic.. I think it is clear we all, with a rational mind know EXACTLY what Sarah Palin and Dobson were refering to when they discussed god's will for America... because to them god is a republican that views them, aka the Christian right republican party, or GOP.. God's Official Party as the superior beings.
and we all know that if you have enough people on your side, it proves you're right............;)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
the thing is angelica you wont even acknowledge the possibility that her intent was for God to be on her side? you just dismiss it outright.
sure she could have meant Gods will in regards to the greater good of the country. i am in no doubt as to her intent. for me with all i know of this woman and the politricks in play, it is clear she was hoping/ praying/wishing for a republican win. and that it be delivered by divine intervention.
I heard her say "I'll be praying I wake up to be president elect"
There is no doubt that many Christians felt (and openly say it) that Dubya was "gods will".....oh and the next sentence.."we got to kill us some Aarabs".
Funny thing about religion, no matter what happens it can be justified...course has to for individual preservation.
Right...so you don't know what it is to put your faith in God's will...Whether one is arrogant, or wants one's 'side' to win, or whether one thinks God is naturally on one's side....putting your faith in God's will supercedes all of that and is a category all it's own.
This is where I see a working understanding of what it means to put one's faith in God's will is necessary in order to understand the implications of what she said. I put my faith in God's will ALL the time. In the meantime, I also do everything I can to create what I want for myself in my life. As spiritual as I am...I personally know there is NO WAY that I'm 'selfless' enough to not want things to turn out the way I want them....putting my faith in God's will is a very potent statement in recognizing that for the potency I (and everyone) has...there are a million variables I don't control. And I still want what I pour my energy into creating for myself!! I definitely wouldn't expect Sarah Palin to be any different! Certainly one's ego might have one believing they are "right" or are going to "win". The whole idea of surrendering to God, though, is in recognizing that one is a paltry, fragmented, (flawed, sinning) human. We are small and are only whole in the totality of All things (God)....So by knowing this, one recognizes the need to surrender to the wholeness ... and even when one is in the grips of ego and self-desires. Both co-exist quite nicely, and by affirming faith in God, the whole point is to supercede fragmented, small ego desire...even if one by and large feels those selfish desires overwhelmingly. I've been there..where I have been embroiled in an us vs them mentality, and have prayed, desperately hoping for a fragmented outcome in my favour. And that I am able to see through that and trust the larger picture, shows my insight into the larger picture, even though I'm largely much more invested in my individual ego vision.
Putting your faith in God is not an either/or proposition of saintly behaviour. it co-exists perfectly alongside a very self-ish approach. Anyone who actively puts their faith in God's will knows this.
By not understanding where a Christian is coming from, and to assess Christian actions from an anti-Christian view is not a great approach. it leads to 2-dimensional assessment that can't understand the paradox of putting one's faith in God while also doing everything in one's power to create one's wants/needs. A typical anti-Christian and ignorant judgment of Christianity assumes surrendering one's will to God to be an act of powerlessness and futile imagination. The fact is, often when one is surrendering one ALSO recognizes the need to utilize all their personal power to also bring about what they seek! It's a wholistic and paradoxical action, that's the opposite of powerless...it's rather covering all bases, of one's own will, and emitting an energy unifying with all one doesn't control.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
actual meaning and intent, even if unproven...sooo not the same thing. i'd also guess the basis of this thread. but hey, just an opinion.
anyhoo...whatever the intent...doesn't make a lick of difference now in any case! i for one, celebrate that...others maybe not so much. differing perspectives come into play here as they do in all things.
personally, i think i's good to move past all that has transpired, learn from it.....and let's look onwards to the future with cautious optimism. such a refreshing idea! i for one am so happy to be feeling hopeful....and whether it is 'god's will' or not......is not really of any consequence to me, but for those who believe.....i guess it is.
By not understanding where a Christian is coming from, and to assess Christian actions from an anti-Christian view is not a great approach. it leads to 2-dimensional assessment that can't understand the paradox of putting one's faith in God while also doing everything in one's power to create one's wants/needs. A typical anti-Christian and ignorant judgment of Christianity assumes surrendering one's will to God to be an act of powerlessness and futile imagination. The fact is, often when one is surrendering one ALSO recognizes the need to utilize all their personal power to also bring about what they seek! It's a wholistic and paradoxical action, that's the opposite of powerless...it's rather covering all bases, of one's own will, and emitting an energy unifying with all one doesn't control.
Not so sure people that don't believe in Christianity aren't able to understand the needs and motivations of those that do. We are simply all human animals, not special, and thus have the very same drive to want to understand, want to feel important, want to be validated, yet are able to meet these basic human needs in other ways.
for those who truly believe in god's will..in it's purity, i would think that the outcome of the election is exactly that, and i would also think such thinkers would find comfort and solace in that. hopefully it could be a unifying force.
for those who truly believe in god's will..in it's purity, i would think that the outcome of the election is exactly that, and i would also think such thinkers would find comfort and solace in that. hopefully it could be a unifying force.
In all seriousness on the God's will thing ... if you are a Christian, you believe God's will is ALWAYS realized ... whether it seems positive or negative to you.
Obama getting elected is God's will. Your grandma getting cancer is God's will. A drunk driver running over your daughter is God's will.
It's not just the "good stuff."
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Not so sure people that don't believe in Christianity aren't able to understand the needs and motivations of those that do. We are simply all human animals, not special, and thus have the very same drive to want to understand, want to feel important, want to be validated, yet are able to meet these basic human needs in other ways.
Of course people who are non-Christian are able to understand the needs and motivations of others with different beliefs. I wouldn't spend most of my debate time talking to atheists If I believed otherwise. My concern is when someones preconceptions stand in the way of that understanding.
In this situation, in this thread, it's starting to look to me like everyone is seeing similar things, and yet have been allowing the differences in perspective to stand in the way of just seeing eye to eye. It's not the potential for understanding that is causing miscommunication, misunderstanding and difference. it's clinging to one's ideas (ego) and the belief in separation that shape our perceptions that is.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
god's will?
ohh i hope he leaves me hawaii!
oh but i do know angelica. all one needs to do is look at the psychology of people. one does not have to believe in the existence of a God to determine peoples motives in regards to their enacting some divine advantage. or at least trying to. and if you want to get down to it, it can be argued that it was for this exact reason WHY palins side didnt win. her arrogance of thinking God would choose sides.
it is clear to me that when palin spoke of Gods will being done she meant in regards to her side winning this election. this is not a slight against God but against an arrogant person.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
A separate issue, though, is what it means to put one's faith in God's will. It's beyond ego. It's literally letting go of the ego needs and trusting a Higher Power. The psychology is clear.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree, the pathology is clear.
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
https://www.createspace.com/3437020
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000663025696
http://earthtremors.blogspot.com/
of course i am reading into palins intent. thats all there is in this.
what about letting go of ego enough to realise that God doesnt even give a shit. that is assuming he even exists, which i do not believe he does.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no worries though....i am trained in the arts of first aid.
Good, because you'll need it. haha. How ya' been?
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
https://www.createspace.com/3437020
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000663025696
http://earthtremors.blogspot.com/
What I'm seeing is what is acknowledged in science or a court of law: empirics. Facts. The face value of what she said.
When someone can show her saying that God wanted her to win, in this instance, then we'll have the empirical facts proving your case.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
there can be no empirical fact when God is involved. his existence relies purely on faith, for which there is no empirical evidence. he is unobservable.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
In psychology, it's acknowledged that the vast majority believe the ego to be who they are. And yet from a psychological standpoint, the ego is considered to be the tip of the iceberg of who we really are. So, to surrender to the "energy" of who we really are beyond the ego, is actually considered far from pathological--it's considered psychologically healthy.
Clinging to the ego, and one's idea of who one is is actually what is considered ego-centered, fragmented, unindividuated, etc.
I'm not saying Sarah Palin is close to being individuated or healthy. What I am saying is surrendering to the power beyond the ego is very healthy, and sought after and achieved by very few, due to ego-centrism.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i swear one day im gonna kill that man
what is my intent in this statement?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Therefore, if anyone else has a quote regarding this situation, where Sarah Palin actually says God wants her and her side to win, I will concede this point.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
the thing is angelica you wont even acknowledge the possibility that her intent was for God to be on her side? you just dismiss it outright.
sure she could have meant Gods will in regards to the greater good of the country. i am in no doubt as to her intent. for me with all i know of this woman and the politricks in play, it is clear she was hoping/ praying/wishing for a republican win. and that it be delivered by divine intervention.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Quoted for truth... you have made outstanding points, but angelica really just likes to dance around every topic.. I think it is clear we all, with a rational mind know EXACTLY what Sarah Palin and Dobson were refering to when they discussed god's will for America... because to them god is a republican that views them, aka the Christian right republican party, or GOP.. God's Official Party as the superior beings.
As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
~D.K.S.
I thought I came here to stay
We're all just visiting
All just breaking like waves.."
07/09/06
07/10/06
07/15/06
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
right, because majority rules works so well in mental institutions.
but, i wonder if God still wants that oil pipeline in Alaska for Palin...she's now 0-1 when talking with God...lol
-Big Fish
I heard her say "I'll be praying I wake up to be president elect"
There is no doubt that many Christians felt (and openly say it) that Dubya was "gods will".....oh and the next sentence.."we got to kill us some Aarabs".
Funny thing about religion, no matter what happens it can be justified...course has to for individual preservation.
I specifically said:
This is where I see a working understanding of what it means to put one's faith in God's will is necessary in order to understand the implications of what she said. I put my faith in God's will ALL the time. In the meantime, I also do everything I can to create what I want for myself in my life. As spiritual as I am...I personally know there is NO WAY that I'm 'selfless' enough to not want things to turn out the way I want them....putting my faith in God's will is a very potent statement in recognizing that for the potency I (and everyone) has...there are a million variables I don't control. And I still want what I pour my energy into creating for myself!! I definitely wouldn't expect Sarah Palin to be any different! Certainly one's ego might have one believing they are "right" or are going to "win". The whole idea of surrendering to God, though, is in recognizing that one is a paltry, fragmented, (flawed, sinning) human. We are small and are only whole in the totality of All things (God)....So by knowing this, one recognizes the need to surrender to the wholeness ... and even when one is in the grips of ego and self-desires. Both co-exist quite nicely, and by affirming faith in God, the whole point is to supercede fragmented, small ego desire...even if one by and large feels those selfish desires overwhelmingly. I've been there..where I have been embroiled in an us vs them mentality, and have prayed, desperately hoping for a fragmented outcome in my favour. And that I am able to see through that and trust the larger picture, shows my insight into the larger picture, even though I'm largely much more invested in my individual ego vision.
Putting your faith in God is not an either/or proposition of saintly behaviour. it co-exists perfectly alongside a very self-ish approach. Anyone who actively puts their faith in God's will knows this.
By not understanding where a Christian is coming from, and to assess Christian actions from an anti-Christian view is not a great approach. it leads to 2-dimensional assessment that can't understand the paradox of putting one's faith in God while also doing everything in one's power to create one's wants/needs. A typical anti-Christian and ignorant judgment of Christianity assumes surrendering one's will to God to be an act of powerlessness and futile imagination. The fact is, often when one is surrendering one ALSO recognizes the need to utilize all their personal power to also bring about what they seek! It's a wholistic and paradoxical action, that's the opposite of powerless...it's rather covering all bases, of one's own will, and emitting an energy unifying with all one doesn't control.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
anyhoo...whatever the intent...doesn't make a lick of difference now in any case! i for one, celebrate that...others maybe not so much. differing perspectives come into play here as they do in all things.
personally, i think i's good to move past all that has transpired, learn from it.....and let's look onwards to the future with cautious optimism. such a refreshing idea!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Who's wondering?
We all know ... they only like preaching to the choir
for the least they could possibly do
they played uniondale NY.
it was my first show ever...and it was awesome!
dunno how god's will figures into it though.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Not so sure people that don't believe in Christianity aren't able to understand the needs and motivations of those that do. We are simply all human animals, not special, and thus have the very same drive to want to understand, want to feel important, want to be validated, yet are able to meet these basic human needs in other ways.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
In all seriousness on the God's will thing ... if you are a Christian, you believe God's will is ALWAYS realized ... whether it seems positive or negative to you.
Obama getting elected is God's will. Your grandma getting cancer is God's will. A drunk driver running over your daughter is God's will.
It's not just the "good stuff."
for the least they could possibly do
In this situation, in this thread, it's starting to look to me like everyone is seeing similar things, and yet have been allowing the differences in perspective to stand in the way of just seeing eye to eye. It's not the potential for understanding that is causing miscommunication, misunderstanding and difference. it's clinging to one's ideas (ego) and the belief in separation that shape our perceptions that is.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!