Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
Forcible rape 24,535
Robbery 125,605
Aggravated assault 447,948
*Violent crime 611,523
Other assaults 1,305,757
* Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
Forcible rape 24,535
Robbery 125,605
Aggravated assault 447,948
*Violent crime 611,523
Other assaults 1,305,757
* Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.
The crazy thing about that too, is not only does it totally load up prisons but on the street it totally changes the way cops think and act. In a lot of places, especailly high crime areas, a sign of a well performing department is how many arrests are made. Now why bother investigate a bunch of burglaries or arrest someone for assualting someone else, when arresting a guy carrying drugs is a lot easier since you don't even need to worry witnesses or property or crap like that (and still counts as an arrest). I am not trying to put this on individual officers, because if arrests are what make you look good what else would you do?
The crazy thing about that too, is not only does it totally load up prisons but on the street it totally changes the way cops think and act. In a lot of places, especailly high crime areas, a sign of a well performing department is how many arrests are made. Now why bother investigate a bunch of burglaries or arrest someone for assualting someone else, when arresting a guy carrying drugs is a lot easier since you don't even need to worry witnesses or property or crap like that (and still counts as an arrest). I am not trying to put this on individual officers, because if arrests are what make you look good what else would you do?
my questions is why don't we hear from teh cops saying this is a load of shit. i have many friends who are cops, and they say they don't bother with drugs unless it is a large cartel or a person with drugs to sell. hell, where i work people walk around with a joint all teh time. no big deal. there are better things for cops to do.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
my questions is why don't we hear from teh cops saying this is a load of shit. i have many friends who are cops, and they say they don't bother with drugs unless it is a large cartel or a person with drugs to sell. hell, where i work people walk around with a joint all teh time. no big deal. there are better things for cops to do.
It was an amazing read and talked about how in the US at least a lot of the thinking (at least in the 90's when this book was written) for cops was exactly what I described. There was even a story in the book about three drug addicts walking down the street with a stolen fridge on the way to pawn it. Cops drove by but no one stopped them. The thinking was it is much easier to arrest some guy on the corner with selling heroin (since it is probably on him) the to do the investigative work (including statements, reports and all of that) that it would take to charge the people with the stolen fridge. Seriously check out this book, it totally changed my viewpoint on drug addiction. The writers also created the HBO series The Wire, which is similar and also awesome.
With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.
that is true, but on the other hand one can say that because teh Canadian police are really not spending that much time on drug possession that they are spending more time on violent crimes. of couse, since i am not a cop, i can't say that this is true.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
It was an amazing read and talked about how in the US at least a lot of the thinking (at least in the 90's when this book was written) for cops was exactly what I described. There was even a story in the book about three drug addicts walking down the street with a stolen fridge on the way to pawn it. Cops drove by but no one stopped them. The thinking was it is much easier to arrest some guy on the corner with selling heroin (since it is probably on him) the to do the investigative work (including statements, reports and all of that) that it would take to charge the people with the stolen fridge. Seriously check out this book, it totally changed my viewpoint on drug addiction. The writers also created the HBO series The Wire, which is similar and also awesome.
thanks abotu the suggestion of the book, i have been trying to get back into reading. i don't doubt that this is true. i think it is a shame. i am a social worker here in Toronto and i work with people who are homeless living with HIV/AIDS. some of the police stories that i hear from my clients are shocking.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
that is true, but on the other hand one can say that because teh Canadian police are really not spending that much time on drug possession that they are spending more time on violent crimes. of couse, since i am not a cop, i can't say that this is true.
That is an interesting alternative to the possibility I suggested. I'm not sure we will know why the violent crimes are so high. Not to say that drug use is a cause of violent crime, but it may be true that a drug user is more likely to commit a crime, or that a violent criminal is more likely to use drugs, given their background. That's why I suggested, if a person of this nature was busted for drug abuse they wouldn't be free to commit a violent crime. But that may be only a fraction of the drug arrests. It's hard to say without proper statistics. Perhaps both theories are true to some degree.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.
Canada classifies more things as violent crimes including robbery, sexual offenses, attemped murder and all levels of assault.(check out the bottom of page 11). Those 1.3 million "other assault" arrests if they were included would totally change the results.
On top of that, I can't find a link for it but, I remember hearing something about those stats awhile back and the US ones only count arrests, where as the Canadian ones count everytime a crime has been reported.
Canada classifies more things as assaults (check out the bottom of page 11).
On top of that, I can't find a link for it but, I remember hearing something about those stats awhile back and the US ones only count arrests, where as the Canadian ones count everytime a crime has been reported.
I noticed that too, Burglary was included in Canadian violent crime stats. I forgot about it though, thanks.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
LEAP is a U.S. Internal Revenue Service 501(c)3 nonprofit educational organization. If you are a resident of the U.S. your donations to LEAP are tax deductible.
The mission of LEAP is to reduce the multitude of unintended harmful consequences resulting from fighting the war on drugs and to lessen the incidence of death, disease, crime, and addiction by ultimately ending drug prohibition.
thanks abotu the suggestion of the book, i have been trying to get back into reading. i don't doubt that this is true. i think it is a shame. i am a social worker here in Toronto and i work with people who are homeless living with HIV/AIDS. some of the police stories that i hear from my clients are shocking.
If you like non-fiction it is an excellent read. My library had it so I would expect the Toronto Library to have it too. It is about an inner city corner in Baltimore Maryland, and a year the writers spent there getting to know the people and telling their stories. It really is a great book.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i was having a discussion on another thread and we were talking about the crime bill in Canada. we then stated to talk about the differnces between Canada and the US prison system.
my questions is what would you think is teh % of people in prison in the states as related to drug offesives as compared to violent crime.
There's also statistics floating around (this is off the top of my head) that the US has 5% of the worlds population but 25% of it's inmates...or something like that.
So unless the US is the most violent place in the world many times over...that's a lot of drug related offenses.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
So unless the US is the most violent place in the world many times over...that's a lot of drug related offenses.
uh, i think it is actually both.
i think we do hold the world homicide & violent crime record.
but we also hold the non-violent drug crime incarceration championship as well.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
An interesting wiki, page....pretty much all government stats:
In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs" and despite the decline in violent crime and property crime since the early 1990s[2].
In terms of federal prison, 57% of those incarcerated were sentenced for drug offenses. Currently, considering local jails as well, almost one million of those incarcerated are in prison for non-violent crime. [4]
half of all persons incarcerated under state jurisdiction are for non-violent offences, and 20% are incarcerated for drug offences.[15]
In 2002, 93.2% of prisoners were male. About 10.4% of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic males and 1.2% of white males. [5]
270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time in 2003, representing 21% of the federal prison population. It is estimated that currently 27% of federal prison inmates are criminal aliens, noncitizens convicted of crimes while in this country legally or illegally.[3]
In 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail.[6] The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in state and federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails.[7]
uh, i think it is actually both.
i think we do hold the world homicide & violent crime record.
but we also hold the non-violent drug crime incarceration championship as well.
I don't know whether to laugh at America insisting on being #1 at seemingly everything or cry.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
actually, i would like to change alittle thing abotu my last post. please just don't compare drug related crimes to violent crimes. do you believe that prisons are full (if they are) with people who deserve to be there.
please no resposds like of course they belong there because they broke teh law. i am asking if the law is fair
non-violent and non-child-exploiting crimes should not be punishable with a jail sentence...violent crimes committed due to substance abuse should be punishable with a jail sentence...
no, jails are not full of people that deserve to be there...
take, for instance, a person caught driving on a suspended license for the third time...jail...that is ridiculous...
take, for instance, a person caught driving on a suspended license for the third time...jail...that is ridiculous...
what should happen to them? How do you educate 'repeat offenders' to stop breaking the law? Do you have a limit of how many times they can be caught before they should go to jail???
I dont know the %'age but i do know if drugs and alcohol
would all of a sudden vanish a very small amount of ppl would still
be committing crimes.
My dad worked at the Iowa State Penitentiary, a maximum security prison.
For 30 odd years he was a gaurd there.
That is what he always said, if it wasn't for drugs or alcohol he'd be unemployeed.
Most crimes are committed when the criminal is fucked up on something,
or needing to get fucked up on something.
True fact
Interesting perspective. Thanks.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
not that I'm for nonviolent drug offenders getting long prison sentences, but I think sending them all to rehab instead is even more wasteful. It would cost taxpayers a hell of a lot more to attempt to rehab them and the percentage of those who actually kick the habit will be tiny and wouldnt justify the cost.
People forced to goto rehab don't change their ways for very long. Most people i know who have went willingly eventually fall back into the habit.
I don't know what the answer is. Hopefully the family can help or the person can change his environment, but thats about it.
not that I'm for nonviolent drug offenders getting long prison sentences, but I think sending them all to rehab instead is even more wasteful. It would cost taxpayers a hell of a lot more to attempt to rehab them and the percentage of those who actually kick the habit will be tiny and wouldnt justify the cost.
People forced to goto rehab don't change their ways for very long. Most people i know who have went willingly eventually fall back into the habit.
I don't know what the answer is. Hopefully the family can help or the person can change his environment, but thats about it.
Why would you send a non-violent drug user anywhere? make the rehab voluntary. You don't HAVE to force people off drugs...if they're not hurting anyone, who cares if they do drugs?
Now about the money...How many rehab facilities do you think you could build for the 40.6 billion the drug war clock in this thread says you've spent so far THIS YEAR? Next year's 50 billion could pay a doctor or two....the next years 50 billion could go into education....think about how much money that is....
Why would you send a non-violent drug user anywhere? make the rehab voluntary. You don't HAVE to force people off drugs...if they're not hurting anyone, who cares if they do drugs?
That would be my position but some would call it heartless or something. However, they would weigh the healthcare system down pretty badly, and hospitals can't turn them away for emergency care.
The only thing you could do then is make it all legal and tax the hell out of companies that make the drugs to offset healthcare costs. If drugs were suddenly legal no way would 50 billion pay to cover expenses.
That would be my position but some would call it heartless or something. However, they would weigh the healthcare system down pretty badly, and hospitals can't turn them away for emergency care.
The only thing you could do then is make it all legal and tax the hell out of companies that make the drugs to offset healthcare costs. If drugs were suddenly legal no way would 50 billion pay to cover expenses.
Your position would be to force rehab on them? Just clarifying....I don't have a big problem with that (as long as the jail and criminal record weren't involved), but like you said earlier, it would be a waste of money.
Remember....most people that want to do drugs do them already....there is not some huge population of people out there pining for the day they can legally snort a line of blow but choosing not to do it cause they're scared of the police.
...of the people that WOULD go try drugs just cause they're legal,how many would need healthcare? I don't see a curious user stuffing their face with drugs, esp if there is a properly funded education system in place....not to mention the fact that you could then regulate and monitor purity.
Do you honestly think there would be 50 billion in NEW drug user's healthcare costs? That would mean that a 12% medicare budget increase couldn't cover the new drug users expenses. That doesn't add up to me.
Comments
WOW!!!!! I don't know what else to say.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
The Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2005, Vol. 26, no. 4
Homicide 658
Attempted murder 772
Assault Level 1 182,049
Assault Level 2: Weapon 49,653
Assault Level 3: Aggravated 3,027
Other assaults 12,818
Sexual assault (levels 1, 2, 3) 23,303
Other sexual offences 2,741
Abduction 584
Robbery 28,669
Violent crime: Total 304,274
Cannabis 59,973 186 -12 24
Cocaine 18,951 59 11 51
Heroin 803 2 0 -38
Other drugs 12,528 39 4 253
Drugs: Total 92,255
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-002-XIE/85-002-XIE2007008.pdf
http://cansim2.statcan.ca/cgi-win/CNSMCGI.EXE?Lang=E&ArrayId=252-0013&Array_Pick=1&Detail=1&ResultTemplate=CII/CII___&RootDir=CII/
The crazy thing about that too, is not only does it totally load up prisons but on the street it totally changes the way cops think and act. In a lot of places, especailly high crime areas, a sign of a well performing department is how many arrests are made. Now why bother investigate a bunch of burglaries or arrest someone for assualting someone else, when arresting a guy carrying drugs is a lot easier since you don't even need to worry witnesses or property or crap like that (and still counts as an arrest). I am not trying to put this on individual officers, because if arrests are what make you look good what else would you do?
it is still shameful that 59,973 people were arrested for Cannabis. but i have to say i do feel safer living here than the US. no Offense
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
my questions is why don't we hear from teh cops saying this is a load of shit. i have many friends who are cops, and they say they don't bother with drugs unless it is a large cartel or a person with drugs to sell. hell, where i work people walk around with a joint all teh time. no big deal. there are better things for cops to do.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
I read this book last year:
The Corner a Year in the Life of An Inner-City Neighborhood by David Simon and Ed Burns
It was an amazing read and talked about how in the US at least a lot of the thinking (at least in the 90's when this book was written) for cops was exactly what I described. There was even a story in the book about three drug addicts walking down the street with a stolen fridge on the way to pawn it. Cops drove by but no one stopped them. The thinking was it is much easier to arrest some guy on the corner with selling heroin (since it is probably on him) the to do the investigative work (including statements, reports and all of that) that it would take to charge the people with the stolen fridge. Seriously check out this book, it totally changed my viewpoint on drug addiction. The writers also created the HBO series The Wire, which is similar and also awesome.
The violent crime stat for Canada is a little unnerving
Population of Canada 2007 estimate
33,073,500
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070927/d070927a.htm
Population of United States of America 2007 estimate
302,643,000
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.
that is true, but on the other hand one can say that because teh Canadian police are really not spending that much time on drug possession that they are spending more time on violent crimes. of couse, since i am not a cop, i can't say that this is true.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
thanks abotu the suggestion of the book, i have been trying to get back into reading. i don't doubt that this is true. i think it is a shame. i am a social worker here in Toronto and i work with people who are homeless living with HIV/AIDS. some of the police stories that i hear from my clients are shocking.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
That is an interesting alternative to the possibility I suggested. I'm not sure we will know why the violent crimes are so high. Not to say that drug use is a cause of violent crime, but it may be true that a drug user is more likely to commit a crime, or that a violent criminal is more likely to use drugs, given their background. That's why I suggested, if a person of this nature was busted for drug abuse they wouldn't be free to commit a violent crime. But that may be only a fraction of the drug arrests. It's hard to say without proper statistics. Perhaps both theories are true to some degree.
Part of the reason for that might be this.
http://www.statcan.ca/english/research/85F0035XIE/85F0035XIE.pdf
Canada classifies more things as violent crimes including robbery, sexual offenses, attemped murder and all levels of assault.(check out the bottom of page 11). Those 1.3 million "other assault" arrests if they were included would totally change the results.
On top of that, I can't find a link for it but, I remember hearing something about those stats awhile back and the US ones only count arrests, where as the Canadian ones count everytime a crime has been reported.
I noticed that too, Burglary was included in Canadian violent crime stats. I forgot about it though, thanks.
Uh.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - LEAP
LEAP is a U.S. Internal Revenue Service 501(c)3 nonprofit educational organization. If you are a resident of the U.S. your donations to LEAP are tax deductible.
The mission of LEAP is to reduce the multitude of unintended harmful consequences resulting from fighting the war on drugs and to lessen the incidence of death, disease, crime, and addiction by ultimately ending drug prohibition.
Drug War Clock
If I opened it now would you not understand?
If you like non-fiction it is an excellent read. My library had it so I would expect the Toronto Library to have it too. It is about an inner city corner in Baltimore Maryland, and a year the writers spent there getting to know the people and telling their stories. It really is a great book.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12027/12027-h/12027-h.htm
I found this bit of information interesting.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/65406/
There's also statistics floating around (this is off the top of my head) that the US has 5% of the worlds population but 25% of it's inmates...or something like that.
So unless the US is the most violent place in the world many times over...that's a lot of drug related offenses.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
uh, i think it is actually both.
i think we do hold the world homicide & violent crime record.
but we also hold the non-violent drug crime incarceration championship as well.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs" and despite the decline in violent crime and property crime since the early 1990s[2].
In terms of federal prison, 57% of those incarcerated were sentenced for drug offenses. Currently, considering local jails as well, almost one million of those incarcerated are in prison for non-violent crime. [4]
half of all persons incarcerated under state jurisdiction are for non-violent offences, and 20% are incarcerated for drug offences.[15]
In 2002, 93.2% of prisoners were male. About 10.4% of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic males and 1.2% of white males. [5]
270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time in 2003, representing 21% of the federal prison population. It is estimated that currently 27% of federal prison inmates are criminal aliens, noncitizens convicted of crimes while in this country legally or illegally.[3]
In 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail.[6] The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in state and federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails.[7]
I don't know whether to laugh at America insisting on being #1 at seemingly everything or cry.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
would all of a sudden vanish a very small amount of ppl would still
be committing crimes.
My dad worked at the Iowa State Penitentiary, a maximum security prison.
For 30 odd years he was a gaurd there.
That is what he always said, if it wasn't for drugs or alcohol he'd be unemployeed.
Most crimes are committed when the criminal is fucked up on something,
or needing to get fucked up on something.
True fact
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
This is insane and out of control.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
non-violent and non-child-exploiting crimes should not be punishable with a jail sentence...violent crimes committed due to substance abuse should be punishable with a jail sentence...
no, jails are not full of people that deserve to be there...
take, for instance, a person caught driving on a suspended license for the third time...jail...that is ridiculous...
from my window to yours
Interesting perspective. Thanks.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
People forced to goto rehab don't change their ways for very long. Most people i know who have went willingly eventually fall back into the habit.
I don't know what the answer is. Hopefully the family can help or the person can change his environment, but thats about it.
Why would you send a non-violent drug user anywhere? make the rehab voluntary. You don't HAVE to force people off drugs...if they're not hurting anyone, who cares if they do drugs?
Now about the money...How many rehab facilities do you think you could build for the 40.6 billion the drug war clock in this thread says you've spent so far THIS YEAR? Next year's 50 billion could pay a doctor or two....the next years 50 billion could go into education....think about how much money that is....
That would be my position but some would call it heartless or something. However, they would weigh the healthcare system down pretty badly, and hospitals can't turn them away for emergency care.
The only thing you could do then is make it all legal and tax the hell out of companies that make the drugs to offset healthcare costs. If drugs were suddenly legal no way would 50 billion pay to cover expenses.
Your position would be to force rehab on them? Just clarifying....I don't have a big problem with that (as long as the jail and criminal record weren't involved), but like you said earlier, it would be a waste of money.
Remember....most people that want to do drugs do them already....there is not some huge population of people out there pining for the day they can legally snort a line of blow but choosing not to do it cause they're scared of the police.
...of the people that WOULD go try drugs just cause they're legal,how many would need healthcare? I don't see a curious user stuffing their face with drugs, esp if there is a properly funded education system in place....not to mention the fact that you could then regulate and monitor purity.
Do you honestly think there would be 50 billion in NEW drug user's healthcare costs? That would mean that a 12% medicare budget increase couldn't cover the new drug users expenses. That doesn't add up to me.