Prisons in the USA

Drowned Out

jlew24asu wrote:

cocaine is really what sparked the whole "war on drugs" in the 80s. and rightfully so. coke and then crack practically took over american streets.

Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well

Thecure wrote:

yet again i am sorry that i can get youa link but i don't know how to so that but here is an article that was written in the Toronto Sun.

right click on the address (in the address bar)...then left click on 'copy'....then go to the "message window " (after you hit reply)....right click in the text area, left click 'paste', and voila!

about your SUN article...it chokes me that it says that over half of canadians want safe injection sites...then the next sentence says Harper is against them....are you the people's rep or are you pushing your beliefs, Steve-O? Those sites will not be shut down before the Olympics, there's no way....they're already talking abotu setting up a massive brothel in Van during the Oly's to try and get prostitutes off the streets...funny how these liberal programs are only acceptable while the world is watching...but once we're out of the spotlight, it's just plain wrong!

jlew24asu

Drowned Out wrote:

Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well

huh? what? I love it when people blame the american government? have you seen any of my posts on the forum?

but tell me, how is the american government partly responsible for why/how coke took over in the 80s?

maybe I've seen the movie Blow too many times.

DriftingByTheStorm

jlew24asu wrote:

huh? what? I love it when people blame the american government? have you seen any of my posts on the forum?

but tell me, how is the american government partly responsible for why/how coke took over in the 80s?

maybe I've seen the movie Blow too many times.

CIA Contra Cocaine Scandal

Secret government run armies & mercenaries need guns, but they can't be funded on the books, because congress said no.
Instead of taking no for an answer, the government has a gun manufacturer produce thousands of weapons, but tells them not to put serials or manufacturers marks on them (required by federal law) ... the CIA then runs drugs from colombia up to Mena Arkansa and distributes them to gangs. They take this drug money and use it to pay for the guns.

Shocking. :rolleyes:
here is some info

Bill Clinton and the Mena Connection -- Federally Sanctioned Drug Traffic In the 1980s

Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA

Or if you like it with a "Quantum Leap" twist ...

jlew24asu

yikes

Drowned Out

thanks driftin...

This is the guy that broke the contra story, Gary Webb:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/october96/crack_contra_11-1.html


Heroin use/poppy production has risen and fallen with the US's involvement in Afghanistan…there are a ton of examples of this kind of thing…just google CIA cocaine or CIA drugs or whatever....it's all out there...

Kel Varnsen

Drowned Out wrote:

thanks driftin...

Heroin use/poppy production has risen and fallen with the US's involvement in Afghanistan…there are a ton of examples of this kind of thing…just google CIA cocaine or CIA drugs or whatever....it's all out there...

That's true, but heroin use really took off in the 1950's when the Lucky Luciano and the mafia came up with idea to dump tons of cheap heroin into the United States (as well as the ways to do it), leading to it being more readily available and many people getting addicted. Before that happened heroin use wasn't nearly as common, mostly only people living on the very outsides of society and you had to really have a connection to get it.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA153EF93BA15752C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

DriftingByTheStorm

Kel Varnsen wrote:

That's true, but heroin use really took off in the 1950's when the Lucky Luciano and the mafia came up with idea to dump tons of cheap heroin into the United States (as well as the ways to do it), leading to it being more readily available and many people getting addicted. Before that happened heroin use wasn't nearly as common, mostly only people living on the very outsides of society and you had to really have a connection to get it.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA153EF93BA15752C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

The funniest part about heroin, to me, is that its original acclaimed use was as a CURE for morphine addiction!

That is why it is called heroin, because it was supposed to champion a cure for morphine addiction. Beyer used to sell this shit, in fact, i think they may have coined the name.

Little did anyone know heroin actually metabolizes into morphine and it ain't gonna cure your ills.

lol.

Kel Varnsen

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

The funniest part about heroin, to me, is that its original acclaimed use was as a CURE for morphine addiction!

That is why it is called heroin, because it was supposed to champion a cure for morphine addiction. Beyer used to sell this shit, in fact, i think they may have coined the name.

Little did anyone know heroin actually metabolizes into morphine and it ain't gonna cure your ills.

lol.

Yea the whole thing with Beyer marketing Heroin is pretty crazy. Check out this picture of a bottle of Bayer brand Heroin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bayer_Heroin_bottle.jpg

Thecure

Drowned Out wrote:

Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well



right click on the address (in the address bar)...then left click on 'copy'....then go to the "message window " (after you hit reply)....right click in the text area, left click 'paste', and voila!

about your SUN article...it chokes me that it says that over half of canadians want safe injection sites...then the next sentence says Harper is against them....are you the people's rep or are you pushing your beliefs, Steve-O? Those sites will not be shut down before the Olympics, there's no way....they're already talking abotu setting up a massive brothel in Van during the Oly's to try and get prostitutes off the streets...funny how these liberal programs are only acceptable while the world is watching...but once we're out of the spotlight, it's just plain wrong!

thanks for letting me knwo about links. as we all know, politics is about apparence not reality. i also did not know that they were setting up a massive brothel.

Ahnimus

Estimated Number of Arrests
United States, 2006

Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
Forcible rape 24,535
Robbery 125,605
Aggravated assault 447,948
*Violent crime 611,523
Other assaults 1,305,757

* Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_29.html

Thecure

Ahnimus wrote:

Estimated Number of Arrests
United States, 2006

Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
Forcible rape 24,535
Robbery 125,605
Aggravated assault 447,948
*Violent crime 611,523
Other assaults 1,305,757

* Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_29.html

WOW!!!!! I don't know what else to say.

Ahnimus

Sorry, this should be:

The Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2005, Vol. 26, no. 4

Homicide 658
Attempted murder 772
Assault Level 1 182,049
Assault Level 2: Weapon 49,653
Assault Level 3: Aggravated 3,027
Other assaults 12,818
Sexual assault (levels 1, 2, 3) 23,303
Other sexual offences 2,741
Abduction 584
Robbery 28,669
Violent crime: Total 304,274
Cannabis 59,973 186 -12 24
Cocaine 18,951 59 11 51
Heroin 803 2 0 -38
Other drugs 12,528 39 4 253
Drugs: Total 92,255

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-002-XIE/85-002-XIE2007008.pdf
http://cansim2.statcan.ca/cgi-win/CNSMCGI.EXE?Lang=E&ArrayId=252-0013&Array_Pick=1&Detail=1&ResultTemplate=CII/CII___&RootDir=CII/

Kel Varnsen

Ahnimus wrote:

Estimated Number of Arrests
United States, 2006

Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
Forcible rape 24,535
Robbery 125,605
Aggravated assault 447,948
*Violent crime 611,523
Other assaults 1,305,757

* Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_29.html

The crazy thing about that too, is not only does it totally load up prisons but on the street it totally changes the way cops think and act. In a lot of places, especailly high crime areas, a sign of a well performing department is how many arrests are made. Now why bother investigate a bunch of burglaries or arrest someone for assualting someone else, when arresting a guy carrying drugs is a lot easier since you don't even need to worry witnesses or property or crap like that (and still counts as an arrest). I am not trying to put this on individual officers, because if arrests are what make you look good what else would you do?

Thecure

Ahnimus wrote:

Sorry, this should be:

The Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2005, Vol. 26, no. 4

Homicide 658
Attempted murder 772
Assault Level 1 182,049
Assault Level 2: Weapon 49,653
Assault Level 3: Aggravated 3,027
Other assaults 12,818
Sexual assault (levels 1, 2, 3) 23,303
Other sexual offences 2,741
Abduction 584
Robbery 28,669
Violent crime: Total 304,274
Cannabis 59,973 186 -12 24
Cocaine 18,951 59 11 51
Heroin 803 2 0 -38
Other drugs 12,528 39 4 253
Drugs: Total 92,255

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-002-XIE/85-002-XIE2007008.pdf

it is still shameful that 59,973 people were arrested for Cannabis. but i have to say i do feel safer living here than the US. no Offense

Thecure

Kel Varnsen wrote:

The crazy thing about that too, is not only does it totally load up prisons but on the street it totally changes the way cops think and act. In a lot of places, especailly high crime areas, a sign of a well performing department is how many arrests are made. Now why bother investigate a bunch of burglaries or arrest someone for assualting someone else, when arresting a guy carrying drugs is a lot easier since you don't even need to worry witnesses or property or crap like that (and still counts as an arrest). I am not trying to put this on individual officers, because if arrests are what make you look good what else would you do?

my questions is why don't we hear from teh cops saying this is a load of shit. i have many friends who are cops, and they say they don't bother with drugs unless it is a large cartel or a person with drugs to sell. hell, where i work people walk around with a joint all teh time. no big deal. there are better things for cops to do.

Kel Varnsen

Thecure wrote:

my questions is why don't we hear from teh cops saying this is a load of shit. i have many friends who are cops, and they say they don't bother with drugs unless it is a large cartel or a person with drugs to sell. hell, where i work people walk around with a joint all teh time. no big deal. there are better things for cops to do.

I read this book last year:

The Corner a Year in the Life of An Inner-City Neighborhood by David Simon and Ed Burns

It was an amazing read and talked about how in the US at least a lot of the thinking (at least in the 90's when this book was written) for cops was exactly what I described. There was even a story in the book about three drug addicts walking down the street with a stolen fridge on the way to pawn it. Cops drove by but no one stopped them. The thinking was it is much easier to arrest some guy on the corner with selling heroin (since it is probably on him) the to do the investigative work (including statements, reports and all of that) that it would take to charge the people with the stolen fridge. Seriously check out this book, it totally changed my viewpoint on drug addiction. The writers also created the HBO series The Wire, which is similar and also awesome.

Ahnimus

Keep in mind these stats are # of arrests, not prison population.

The violent crime stat for Canada is a little unnerving

Population of Canada 2007 estimate
33,073,500

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070927/d070927a.htm

Population of United States of America 2007 estimate
302,643,000

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.

Thecure

Ahnimus wrote:

Keep in mind these stats are # of arrests, not prison population.

The violent crime stat for Canada is a little unnerving

Population of Canada 2007 estimate
33,073,500

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070927/d070927a.htm

Population of United States of America 2007 estimate
302,643,000

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

With 1/10th of the population our violent crimes shouldn't be as much as half. One might argue that the arrest of 1.8 million drug users affected the stats for violent crimes.

that is true, but on the other hand one can say that because teh Canadian police are really not spending that much time on drug possession that they are spending more time on violent crimes. of couse, since i am not a cop, i can't say that this is true.

Thecure

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I read this book last year:

The Corner a Year in the Life of An Inner-City Neighborhood by David Simon and Ed Burns

It was an amazing read and talked about how in the US at least a lot of the thinking (at least in the 90's when this book was written) for cops was exactly what I described. There was even a story in the book about three drug addicts walking down the street with a stolen fridge on the way to pawn it. Cops drove by but no one stopped them. The thinking was it is much easier to arrest some guy on the corner with selling heroin (since it is probably on him) the to do the investigative work (including statements, reports and all of that) that it would take to charge the people with the stolen fridge. Seriously check out this book, it totally changed my viewpoint on drug addiction. The writers also created the HBO series The Wire, which is similar and also awesome.

thanks abotu the suggestion of the book, i have been trying to get back into reading. i don't doubt that this is true. i think it is a shame. i am a social worker here in Toronto and i work with people who are homeless living with HIV/AIDS. some of the police stories that i hear from my clients are shocking.

Ahnimus

Thecure wrote:

that is true, but on the other hand one can say that because teh Canadian police are really not spending that much time on drug possession that they are spending more time on violent crimes. of couse, since i am not a cop, i can't say that this is true.

That is an interesting alternative to the possibility I suggested. I'm not sure we will know why the violent crimes are so high. Not to say that drug use is a cause of violent crime, but it may be true that a drug user is more likely to commit a crime, or that a violent criminal is more likely to use drugs, given their background. That's why I suggested, if a person of this nature was busted for drug abuse they wouldn't be free to commit a violent crime. But that may be only a fraction of the drug arrests. It's hard to say without proper statistics. Perhaps both theories are true to some degree.