Prisons in the USA

ThecureThecure Posts: 814
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
i was having a discussion on another thread and we were talking about the crime bill in Canada. we then stated to talk about the differnces between Canada and the US prison system.

my questions is what would you think is teh % of people in prison in the states as related to drug offesives as compared to violent crime.

since i am not american, i don't know.

any help would be great.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
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  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    actually, i would like to change alittle thing abotu my last post. please just don't compare drug related crimes to violent crimes. do you believe that prisons are full (if they are) with people who deserve to be there.

    please no resposds like of course they belong there because they broke teh law. i am asking if the law is fair
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • PegasusPegasus Posts: 3,754
    Actually, a lot of crime (violent or not) is drug-related, maybe even a majority.
    addicts resorting to crime to feed their habit, or commit violence under the influence.

    it's one of the arguments of legalisation, if it was legal, it wouldn't push people (or less) onto related crimes.

    so you can't really separate them.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Pegasus wrote:
    Actually, a lot of crime (violent or not) is drug-related, maybe even a majority.
    addicts resorting to crime to feed their habit, or commit violence under the influence.

    it's one of the arguments of legalisation, if it was legal, it wouldn't push people (or less) onto related crimes.

    so you can't really separate them.

    exactly right. they violent crime and drug crimes go hand in hand.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Thecure wrote:
    actually, i would like to change alittle thing abotu my last post. please just don't compare drug related crimes to violent crimes. do you believe that prisons are full (if they are) with people who deserve to be there.

    please no resposds like of course they belong there because they broke teh law. i am asking if the law is fair

    There are definitely people in our prison system who do not deserve to be there. Some of our states have draconian drug laws where people are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for simple drug possession charges. I also believe that there are prisoners who have committed a crime but are not career criminals. Instead of placing these people in prison some type of work camp would be better.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    Non-violent drug offenders, or people with drug-only offenses on their records, should not be in jail. I don't have time to do the research, and don't want to google this stuff too much from work…but the stats on the percentage of people in jail for drug offenses are staggering. Completely ridiculous. The biggest joke is the the fact that people who are legally (by state law anyway) running compassion clubs are being thrown in jail with massive fines for growing medicine for sick people.

    The privatized prison system plays a role in the war on drugs….so do forfeiture laws…I'm sure there is some skimming involved with all that massive funding…the political favour gained by handing foreign governments big dollars to fight drugs…lobbys from the pharm and alcohol industries...the scale of corruption in the US never ceases to amaze me....the pressure on trade partners is what really pisses me off. Canadians don't want this war either...
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    jlew24asu wrote:
    exactly right. they violent crime and drug crimes go hand in hand.

    i agree with you that some violent crimes are related to drugs. however, would you say that there are many people in prisons for sole possession.

    yet again, i don't want to assume anything as i don't know.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    Non-violent drug offenders, or people with drug-only offenses on their records, should not be in jail. I don't have time to do the research, and don't want to google this stuff too much from work…but the stats on the percentage of people in jail for drug offenses are staggering. Completely ridiculous. The biggest joke is the the fact that people who are legally (by state law anyway) running compassion clubs are being thrown in jail with massive fines for growing medicine for sick people.

    The privatized prison system plays a role in the war on drugs….so do forfeiture laws…I'm sure there is some skimming involved with all that massive funding…the political favour gained by handing foreign governments big dollars to fight drugs…lobbys from the pharm and alcohol industries...the scale of corruption in the US never ceases to amaze me....the pressure on trade partners is what really pisses me off. Canadians don't want this war either...

    canadians might be getting this war.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    Thecure wrote:
    canadians might be getting this war.
    if you're talking about the war on drugs, we've already got it....and it continues (at least in the case of mj) not because of popular opinion, but because of pressure from the US.
  • Of course they don't deserve to be there.
    It is a violation of their constitutional right to be imprisoned for a personal choice.

    The drug war is an abuse of law through treaties.

    The constitution listed only THREE federal crimes -- treason, piracy, and counterfeiting -- things our government actually commits on a daily basis with their foreign policy and fake money efforts.

    Making A Federal Case Out Of Almost Anything

    It's time to read the constitution, restore the republic, and get back to a real America. Not this phony-freedom-loving-war-mongering-fake-money-making-still-fucking-asleep-at-the-wheel bullshit of a nation we currently have.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Thecure wrote:
    i agree with you that some violent crimes are related to drugs. however, would you say that there are many people in prisons for sole possession.

    yet again, i don't want to assume anything as i don't know.

    I dont have had facts for you. but typical drug possession (depending on amount) doesnt hold much jail time. usually under a year.

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/cocaine-possession-and-sales-lawyers.html
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I dont have had facts for you. but typical drug possession (depending on amount) doesnt hold much jail time. usually under a year.

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/cocaine-possession-and-sales-lawyers.html

    It works wonders on your resume though.
    Thanks Uncle Sam, for turning a dope smoker in to a convicted fellon.

    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    It works wonders on your resume though.
    Thanks Uncle Sam, for turning a dope smoker in to a convicted fellon.

    ;)

    and forget about that college funding!
  • It works wonders on your resume though.
    Thanks Uncle Sam, for turning a dope smoker in to a convicted fellon.

    ;)

    This is one of the worst parts. Even if you don't go to jail, you have this crap on your record. Has anyone seen Grass? Great movie on the drug war in America.
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    It works wonders on your resume though.
    Thanks Uncle Sam, for turning a dope smoker in to a convicted fellon.

    ;)

    cocaine is really what sparked the whole "war on drugs" in the 80s. and rightfully so. coke and then crack practically took over american streets.

    weed smokers got the shitty end of the deal. puff on brother.

    worst thing I ever hear on TV about drugs....weed is a gateway drug.

    go fuck yourself! I hate that phrase.
  • macgyver06macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    this society is a gateway to weed.
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    if you're talking about the war on drugs, we've already got it....and it continues (at least in the case of mj) not because of popular opinion, but because of pressure from the US.

    yet again i am sorry that i can get youa link but i don't know how to so that but here is an article that was written in the Toronto Sun. i picked this one as they tend to be more conservative.

    Just say no to "just say no."

    An Angus Reid Strategies poll, released yesterday, shows Canadians back some of the federal government's new $64-million, anti-drug strategy, but they say the plan needs to emphasize more than enforcement, treatment and prevention.

    Three-quarters of Canadians support mandatory prison sentences for serious narcotics offences and 84% favoured plans to create anti-drug campaigns aimed at children.

    But more than half of Canadians want the federal government to leave harm-reduction programs, such as needle exchanges and safe-injection sites, intact.

    Vancouver's safe-injection site has been given an extension until next June, but Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said he opposes these kind of programs.



    Dr. Louis Gliksman, acting vice-president of research at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, said safe-injection sites have proven successful in Europe.

    FEWER NEEDLES

    "The jury is out in Canada. I think we need more research," Gliksman said, noting needle exchanges are already working well here. "You don't find as many needles lying around."

    Gliksman said needle exchanges also improve the health of addicts and put them into contact with treatment programs.

    While opponents may feel harm-reduction programs are an "endorsement of a drug lifestyle," Gliksman said "just say no" strategies, as coined by former first lady Nancy Reagan, are ineffective and unrealistic.

    "I haven't seen any study that suggest the 'say no to drugs' (strategy) in the U.S. had any impact," Gliksman. "It's a great slogan, many millions of dollars were spent, but I haven't seen any results."

    The new federal strategy is also silent on alcohol and prescription drug addiction, Gliksman said.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    puff on brother.

    worst thing I ever hear on TV about drugs....weed is a gateway drug.

    go fuck yourself! I hate that phrase.

    this is one of those truly rare and glorious days where our brotherhood shines, and my liking for you is amplifed so many fold.

    ;)
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    i thought weed was helping the terrorists win. do you remember this or am i just high?
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Thecure wrote:
    i thought weed was helping the terrorists win. do you remember this or am i just high?


    I don't know about helping them win. But back in the day the best hash I have ever smoked and we got a load of it back then came in a big brick with gold leaf on it with two AK-47s and the phrase "product of Afghanistan" on it. Great taste and it was less filling.

    Fast forward 20 or so years and we don't quite dabble in the quantity we used to, but, after the States and their allies went in after 911, good tasting black hash hit the streets in TO and I hadn't seen hash, well good hash in about 5 solid years before that.

    So to say it helps the terrorists win, I don't know. But having the big boys on the block in that country sure helps it get out. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    even flow? wrote:
    I don't know about helping them win. But back in the day the best hash I have ever smoked and we got a load of it back then came in a big brick with gold leaf on it with two AK-47s and the phrase "product of Afghanistan" on it. Great taste and it was less filling.

    Fast forward 20 or so years and we don't quite dabble in the quantity we used to, but, after the States and their allies went in after 911, good tasting black hash hit the streets in TO and I hadn't seen hash, well good hash in about 5 solid years before that.

    So to say it helps the terrorists win, I don't know. But having the big boys on the block in that country sure helps it get out. ;)

    i was just joking. i seem to remember this big issue a while back that teh US Goverenment was saying that americans buying drugs were helping the Terrorist.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    cocaine is really what sparked the whole "war on drugs" in the 80s. and rightfully so. coke and then crack practically took over american streets.

    Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well ;)

    Thecure wrote:
    yet again i am sorry that i can get youa link but i don't know how to so that but here is an article that was written in the Toronto Sun.
    right click on the address (in the address bar)...then left click on 'copy'....then go to the "message window " (after you hit reply)....right click in the text area, left click 'paste', and voila!

    about your SUN article...it chokes me that it says that over half of canadians want safe injection sites...then the next sentence says Harper is against them....are you the people's rep or are you pushing your beliefs, Steve-O? Those sites will not be shut down before the Olympics, there's no way....they're already talking abotu setting up a massive brothel in Van during the Oly's to try and get prostitutes off the streets...funny how these liberal programs are only acceptable while the world is watching...but once we're out of the spotlight, it's just plain wrong!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well ;)
    huh? what? I love it when people blame the american government? have you seen any of my posts on the forum?

    but tell me, how is the american government partly responsible for why/how coke took over in the 80s?

    maybe I've seen the movie Blow too many times.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    huh? what? I love it when people blame the american government? have you seen any of my posts on the forum?

    but tell me, how is the american government partly responsible for why/how coke took over in the 80s?

    maybe I've seen the movie Blow too many times.

    CIA Contra Cocaine Scandal

    Secret government run armies & mercenaries need guns, but they can't be funded on the books, because congress said no.
    Instead of taking no for an answer, the government has a gun manufacturer produce thousands of weapons, but tells them not to put serials or manufacturers marks on them (required by federal law) ... the CIA then runs drugs from colombia up to Mena Arkansa and distributes them to gangs. They take this drug money and use it to pay for the guns.

    Shocking. :rolleyes:
    here is some info

    Bill Clinton and the Mena Connection -- Federally Sanctioned Drug Traffic In the 1980s

    Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA

    Or if you like it with a "Quantum Leap" twist ... :D
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    yikes
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    thanks driftin...

    This is the guy that broke the contra story, Gary Webb:

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/october96/crack_contra_11-1.html


    Heroin use/poppy production has risen and fallen with the US's involvement in Afghanistan…there are a ton of examples of this kind of thing…just google CIA cocaine or CIA drugs or whatever....it's all out there...
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    thanks driftin...

    Heroin use/poppy production has risen and fallen with the US's involvement in Afghanistan…there are a ton of examples of this kind of thing…just google CIA cocaine or CIA drugs or whatever....it's all out there...

    That's true, but heroin use really took off in the 1950's when the Lucky Luciano and the mafia came up with idea to dump tons of cheap heroin into the United States (as well as the ways to do it), leading to it being more readily available and many people getting addicted. Before that happened heroin use wasn't nearly as common, mostly only people living on the very outsides of society and you had to really have a connection to get it.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA153EF93BA15752C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
  • That's true, but heroin use really took off in the 1950's when the Lucky Luciano and the mafia came up with idea to dump tons of cheap heroin into the United States (as well as the ways to do it), leading to it being more readily available and many people getting addicted. Before that happened heroin use wasn't nearly as common, mostly only people living on the very outsides of society and you had to really have a connection to get it.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA153EF93BA15752C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

    The funniest part about heroin, to me, is that its original acclaimed use was as a CURE for morphine addiction!

    That is why it is called heroin, because it was supposed to champion a cure for morphine addiction. Beyer used to sell this shit, in fact, i think they may have coined the name.

    Little did anyone know heroin actually metabolizes into morphine and it ain't gonna cure your ills.

    lol.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    The funniest part about heroin, to me, is that its original acclaimed use was as a CURE for morphine addiction!

    That is why it is called heroin, because it was supposed to champion a cure for morphine addiction. Beyer used to sell this shit, in fact, i think they may have coined the name.

    Little did anyone know heroin actually metabolizes into morphine and it ain't gonna cure your ills.

    lol.

    Yea the whole thing with Beyer marketing Heroin is pretty crazy. Check out this picture of a bottle of Bayer brand Heroin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bayer_Heroin_bottle.jpg
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    Have you ever looked into why/how coke took over in the 80's? I know how you love it when people blame the american government for everything....you have to know this is in large part their fault as well ;)



    right click on the address (in the address bar)...then left click on 'copy'....then go to the "message window " (after you hit reply)....right click in the text area, left click 'paste', and voila!

    about your SUN article...it chokes me that it says that over half of canadians want safe injection sites...then the next sentence says Harper is against them....are you the people's rep or are you pushing your beliefs, Steve-O? Those sites will not be shut down before the Olympics, there's no way....they're already talking abotu setting up a massive brothel in Van during the Oly's to try and get prostitutes off the streets...funny how these liberal programs are only acceptable while the world is watching...but once we're out of the spotlight, it's just plain wrong!

    thanks for letting me knwo about links. as we all know, politics is about apparence not reality. i also did not know that they were setting up a massive brothel.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Estimated Number of Arrests
    United States, 2006

    Drug abuse violations 1,889,810
    Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 13,435
    Forcible rape 24,535
    Robbery 125,605
    Aggravated assault 447,948
    *Violent crime 611,523
    Other assaults 1,305,757

    * Violent crimes are offenses of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Property crimes are offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_29.html
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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