Yes, it's been studied very well. Sharing a room doesn't equate to every second of their lives. They will have different experiences from the whom to death.
You take a great position in this debate, because you can never be wrong....
Say I am walking down the street past a homeless person laying on the sidewalk.... If I decide to attack him, steal his money, and beat him to death, you can say that my environment and genetics made me a monster, but if I decide to help him up, buy him lunch and clean clothes, and take him to a shelter, then you can say that my environment and genetics made me a caring person... You can never be wrong.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
did i say anything about him creating himself? all i mentioned was that he was a nut (with no comments as to what was behind it) and made a mention of trading places.
Oh, trust me, having been seriously downgraded and abused in this society, to the degree of having ludicrous mental illness, I'm completely aware that society has huge accountability as well. I'm very aware society is fast asleep and overlooking their accountability and paying a BIG price.
My point here is only to be very clear about the role of the "agent". For my own healing, it was only once I realized, on every level, in every interaction in my life, I agreed with and internalized the external and ugly forces that caused my downfall. I participated in my own interaction with my environment every step of the way. It was self AND other together. Each choice I made in every interaction made all the difference in the outcome. And my healing, and the change in my inner torment, and the shift from lack of power to personal empowerment, came from creating new agreements with reality. I no longer accepted and perpetuated situations that caused me pain. Charles Manson is not ready to make new agreements with reality and therefore is a dangerous criminal because he is ACTively capable of ACTing out the same patterns, as he is carrying the same mindset that ACTed dangerously and with deplorable self-entitlement in the past. I understand he's not being validated for what he has endured. And won't for a long time.
I always thought we agreed about this. You do know that some cause hightened your awareness to enable you to self-actualize. Something Manson will probably never get. Most people don't attain that level of enlightenment. In-fact they spit in it's face.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You take a great position in this debate, because you can never be wrong....
Say I am walking down the street past a homeless person laying on the sidewalk.... If I decide to attack him, steal his money, and beat him to death, you can say that my environment and genetics made me a monster, but if I decide to help him up, buy him lunch and clean clothes, and take him to a shelter, then you can say that my environment and genetics made me a caring person... You can never be wrong.
I will never be wrong with that view.
It's pretty well accepted that homosexuality is genetic, but even amongst monozygous twins there is only a .50 coherency in their sexuality. This is because environment plays a role, and it's no different for monozygous twins who were seperated at birth.
I mean, you really have to study things like sociology and psychology to get the idea in it's full capacity.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I always thought we agreed about this. You do know that some cause hightened your awareness to enable you to self-actualize. Something Manson will probably never get. Most people don't attain that level of enlightenment. In-fact they spit in it's face.
The problem comes in with judgment. When we judge my position in life as "better" and Charles Manson's as "worse", then we allow our own brain flaws and ego to distort reality.
I do not personally do that. I see Charles Manson's life, from conception to now as equally valid to my own. I'm just as valid and human as when I was psychiatrically hospitalized in the throes of delusions--on a few occasions. I am just as valid and human as when I have abused my boyfriends or when I created a dysfunctional family with my children. Others may not think so. I KNOW so. Objectively speaking, it is all experience. The problems come in when we add our moral judgments stemming from the duality of our human perspective--of good/bad, better/worse, etc. We split the world into acceptable and unacceptable. The only truth is what IS.
Charles Manson's life IS. I accept that with no conflict. My life IS. I accept that with no conflict. Charles Manson maintains the illness that caused him to orchestrate killing. It just is what it IS. We decide to keep in in jail in order to enable our loved ones to stay alive. It is what it is.
I spend each day creating awareness. But I always know what IS is. And the universe is in perfect balance, despite my opinion of it. It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times. The Charles Mansons and Paul Bernardos are as much a valid part of our evolution as I am.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The problem comes in with judgment. When we judge my position in life as "better" and Charles Manson's as "worse", then we allow our own brain flaws and ego to distort reality.
I do not personally do that. I see Charles Manson's life, from conception to now as equally valid to my own. I'm just as valid and human as when I was psychiatrically hospitalized in the throes of delusions--on a few occasions. I am just as valid and human as when I have abused my boyfriends or when I created a dysfunctional family with my children. Others may not think so. I KNOW so. Objectively speaking, it is all experience. The problems come in when we add our moral judgments stemming from the duality of our human perspective--of good/bad, better/worse, etc. We split the world into acceptable and unacceptable. The only truth is what IS.
Charles Manson's life IS. I accept that with no conflict. My life IS. I accept that with no conflict. Charles Manson maintains the illness that caused him to orchestrate killing. It just is what it IS. We decide to keep in in jail in order to enable our loved ones to stay alive. It is what it is.
I spend each day creating awareness. But I always know what IS is. And the universe is in perfect balance, despite my opinion of it. It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times. The Charles Mansons and Paul Bernardos are as much a valid part of our evolution as I am.
I agree with you, I just say it differently. I was just saying that, that level of enlightenment (for lack of a better word), flies in the face of pride and other human emotions. So many will not accept it even when it becomes apparent to them. I don't mean to blame them or say they are any less for it, but rather, it's an unfortunate result of the universe.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I agree with you, I just say it differently. I was just saying that, that level of enlightenment (for lack of a better word), flies in the face of pride and other human emotions. So many will not accept it even when it becomes apparent to them. I don't mean to blame them or say they are any less for it, but rather, it's an unfortunate result of the universe.
I agree. Maybe twistedly, I take great solace in knowing that those who live in and practice raging ignorance are held to account in each moment, by the quality they co-create in their agreements with reality as well. While they point the finger outward and villify Charles Manson, or Saddam Hussein, or whom or whatever, they continue to reinforce their own pain...until they get the lessons from said pain and wake up.
For example, in my family, my siblings ALL liked to see me as the "crazy" one and themselves as sane. I accepted "crazy" too...and lived it. And the experience of it was so awful, I learned to change it. My siblings, however, they kept their own problems projected onto me, and therefore delayed even touching on their own issues for a longgg time. When I became obviously not only well, but vibrantly healthy, with mental awareness to match, their false reality has tumbled down forcing them unprepared to begin to search within themselves. It's all perfect, and all in it's good time. We all are called to account in each moment and we all willingly pay the price for our ignorance.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I agree. Maybe twistedly, I take great solace in knowing that those who live in and practice raging ignorance are held to account in each moment, by the quality they co-create in their agreements with reality as well. While they point the finger outward and villify Charles Manson, or Saddam Hussein, or whom or whatever, they continue to reinforce their own pain...until they get the lessons from said pain and wake up.
For example, in my family, my siblings ALL liked to see me as the "crazy" one and themselves as sane. I accepted "crazy" too...and lived it. And the experience of it was so awful, I learned to change it. My siblings, however, they kept their own problems projected onto me, and therefore delayed even touching on their own issues for a longgg time. When I became obviously not only well, but vibrantly healthy, with mental awareness to match, their false reality has tumbled down forcing them unprepared to begin to search within themselves. It's all perfect, and all in it's good time. We all are called to account in each moment and we all willingly pay the price for our ignorance.
Sorry to go off-topic a bit. But this reminds me of a girl I am seeing. She is obese, but she has been playing competitive sports since she was 3 years old. Currently she plays 2 or 3 sports a week and works-out a few times a week. She is not getting any thinner. I attribute it to one of 11 genetic variations that account for 25% of obesity.
Anyway, since she was young, her brothers - who are younger - have always ridiculed her about her size. Her oldest brother, a rower, is very genetically fortunate and popular with girls and boys alike. He is very nasty towards her, and very self-conscious about his own looks. She has aquired some serious deficits as a result, which I am helping her to overcome.
It's just another example of this kind of thing. Ignorance.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sorry to go off-topic a bit. But this reminds me of a girl I am seeing. She is obese, but she has been playing competitive sports since she was 3 years old. Currently she plays 2 or 3 sports a week and works-out a few times a week. She is not getting any thinner. I attribute it to one of 11 genetic variations that account for 25% of obesity.
Anyway, since she was young, her brothers - who are younger - have always ridiculed her about her size. Her oldest brother, a rower, is very genetically fortunate and popular with girls and boys alike. He is very nasty towards her, and very self-conscious about his own looks. She has aquired some serious deficits as a result, which I am helping her to overcome.
It's just another example of this kind of thing. Ignorance.
Let me just take a wild stab in the dark here....was she sexually assaulted as a child?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Let me just take a wild stab in the dark here....was she sexually assaulted as a child?
Not that I am aware of. Which is surprising. Statistically speaking, she should have been, maybe she is one of the lucky few. Or maybe she hasn't told me about it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Not that I am aware of. Which is surprising. Statistically speaking, she should have been, maybe she is one of the lucky few. Or maybe she hasn't told me about it.
I repressed memory of my first sexual assault until my daughter become the age I was when it happened to me. So repression is a possibility, too. But, yeah, consider the lack of sexual assault stories as a good thing when they are absent. There are all manner of psychological issues, though, that can cause the wide array of eating issues--many of which I've cycled through at some point or another. For example, the average person eats "prophylactically", eating more than they need due to an ingrained sense of "lack", which as an eating disorder can contribute to obesity. That's independent of binging, itself. Or indulging in unhealthy snack foods with are anti-life by being toxic to our systems in many ways. The underlying causes to eating issues of weight are about repression of feelings--stuffing our feelings down. So if your girl friend has been degraded in her family for her weight, it wouldn't be unheard of that such degradation and insensitivity towards her feelings could actually contribute to the problem--like in the Manson sense.
My numerous eating issues, which fluctuated all over, were hidden from those who knew me, for the most part. Well, except the "starving" part, which was socially acceptable as a female--to eat all dainty, and to ingest next to nothing, sadly. That was reinforced. But the unholy binges were "insane". And interestingly, I've never been obese. I had ways of managing it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I repressed memory of my first sexual assault until my daughter become the age I was when it happened to me. So repression is a possibility, too. But, yeah, consider the lack of sexual assault stories as a good thing when they are absent. There are all manner of psychological issues, though, that can cause the wide array of eating issues--many of which I've cycled through at some point or another. For example, the average person eats "prophylactically", eating more than they need due to an ingrained sense of "lack", which as an eating disorder can contribute to obesity. That's independent of binging, itself. Or indulging in unhealthy snack foods with are anti-life by being toxic to our systems in many ways. The underlying causes to eating issues of weight are about repression of feelings--stuffing our feelings down. So if your girl friend has been degraded in her family for her weight, it wouldn't be unheard of that such degradation and insensitivity towards her feelings could actually contribute to the problem--like in the Manson sense.
My numerous eating issues, which fluctuated all over, were hidden from those who knew me, for the most part. Well, except the "starving" part, which was socially acceptable as a female--to eat all dainty, and to ingest next to nothing, sadly. That was reinforced. But the unholy binges were "insane". And interestingly, I've never been obese. I had ways of managing it.
See, as far as I'm aware, she eats quite healthy. A lot better than I do. She only drinks water and ice-tea and when we go out, she orders relatively healthy meals. I bought a bag of chips one night and she slowly ate a few, and I devoured the bag, but she is larger than me.
But recently they discovered a link between stress and obesity that is unrelated to eating habits. I think it had to do with PPAR or Grhelin or Leptin or something. She has actually studied physiology and is going to univeristy for kinesiology. She wants to either be a personal trainer or a phys. ed. teacher.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
See, as far as I'm aware, she eats quite healthy. A lot better than I do. She only drinks water and ice-tea and when we go out, she orders relatively healthy meals. I bought a bag of chips one night and she slowly ate a few, and I devoured the bag, but she is larger than me.
But recently they discovered a link between stress and obesity that is unrelated to eating habits. I think it had to do with PPAR or Grhelin or Leptin or something. She has actually studied physiology and is going to univeristy for kinesiology. She wants to either be a personal trainer or a phys. ed. teacher.
I guess I'm a bit "hard-core" about what healthy food is. The standard ideas are grossly warped, and create our generally obese culture (throw in a lack of psychological balance under the surface). But, yeah, if she eats with relative moderation and is prone to more weight loss than others, I can accept that. And I hear what you are saying about stress and obesity.
If I ate what "normal" people ate, I would definitely be obese....or at the very least "matronly" looking like my grandmothers were. However, I take my naturally less "girly" figure, and work out and go with an "athletic" look. I work out regularly, with weights, and doing cardio. Although I've had an eating disorder past and cannot strictly maintain my diet because that is reminiscent of eating issues, I have resolved much of my eating issues, to a degree that in order to feel healthy and alert, I need to eat light, whole and fresh foods, which in turn is just basic, healthy and contributes to a long life and.....enLightenment.
It's great that she has her sights on a life affirming career goal. Is she taking the psychology stuff, too?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I guess I'm a bit "hard-core" about what healthy food is. The standard ideas are grossly warped, and create our generally obese culture (throw in a lack of psychological balance under the surface). But, yeah, if she eats with relative moderation and is prone to more weight loss than others, I can accept that. And I hear what you are saying about stress and obesity.
If I ate what "normal" people ate, I would definitely be obese....or at the very least "matronly" looking like my grandmothers were. However, I take my naturally less "girly" figure, and work out and go with an "athletic" look. I work out regularly, with weights, and doing cardio. Although I've had an eating disorder past and cannot strictly maintain my diet because that is reminiscent of eating issues, I have resolved much of my eating issues, to a degree that in order to feel healthy and alert, I need to eat light, whole and fresh foods, which in turn is just basic, healthy and contributes to a long life and.....enLightenment.
It's great that she has her sights on a life affirming career goal. Is she taking the psychology stuff, too?
See, I don't know exactly. I'm a bit confused, because she has read physiology and psychology textbooks. She just lent me her psychology textbook by Peter Gray and it's evident that she read it, besides that she told me she did. But she hasn't been to university yet, apparently you can take those courses in high-school.
We really connect intellectually because we've studied very similar things. She's studied neuroanatomy as well. She says she understands and is familiar with about 45% of what I talk about. We've had some pretty extensive conversations about metabolism and we've both learned from each other. She has the formal knowledge of it, but surprisingly she didn't know what PPAR-Delta was - something I learned from an HHMI lecture series.
Anyway, I guess this could be a private conversation.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The problem comes in with judgment. When we judge my position in life as "better" and Charles Manson's as "worse", then we allow our own brain flaws and ego to distort reality.
I do not personally do that. I see Charles Manson's life, from conception to now as equally valid to my own. I'm just as valid and human as when I was psychiatrically hospitalized in the throes of delusions--on a few occasions. I am just as valid and human as when I have abused my boyfriends or when I created a dysfunctional family with my children. Others may not think so. I KNOW so. Objectively speaking, it is all experience. The problems come in when we add our moral judgments stemming from the duality of our human perspective--of good/bad, better/worse, etc. We split the world into acceptable and unacceptable. The only truth is what IS.
Charles Manson's life IS. I accept that with no conflict. My life IS. I accept that with no conflict. Charles Manson maintains the illness that caused him to orchestrate killing. It just is what it IS. We decide to keep in in jail in order to enable our loved ones to stay alive. It is what it is.
I spend each day creating awareness. But I always know what IS is. And the universe is in perfect balance, despite my opinion of it. It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times. The Charles Mansons and Paul Bernardos are as much a valid part of our evolution as I am.
WHAT???!!!
So you think that abusing boyfriends, neglecting children and having delusions is neither bad nor good/right or wrong? It just is? How do you function?
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
I guess I'm a bit "hard-core" about what healthy food is. The standard ideas are grossly warped, and create our generally obese culture (throw in a lack of psychological balance under the surface). But, yeah, if she eats with relative moderation and is prone to more weight loss than others, I can accept that. And I hear what you are saying about stress and obesity.
If I ate what "normal" people ate, I would definitely be obese....or at the very least "matronly" looking like my grandmothers were. However, I take my naturally less "girly" figure, and work out and go with an "athletic" look. I work out regularly, with weights, and doing cardio. Although I've had an eating disorder past and cannot strictly maintain my diet because that is reminiscent of eating issues, I have resolved much of my eating issues, to a degree that in order to feel healthy and alert, I need to eat light, whole and fresh foods, which in turn is just basic, healthy and contributes to a long life and.....enLightenment.
It's great that she has her sights on a life affirming career goal. Is she taking the psychology stuff, too?
If you live by the ideology that "what is IS", and that there is no right or wrong/bad or good, then why would you need to alter your "eating issues"?
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
So you think that abusing boyfriends, neglecting children and having delusions is neither bad nor good/right or wrong? It just is? How do you function?
I said I was as valid and as human when I was an abuser as I am now. Objectively speaking--devoid of subjective judgment--all is just pure experience. Your incredulity and distorting of what I did actually say symbolizes how flawed and distorted human judgment can be, and how we judge based on what we think, rather than on what is there before us.
Objectively speaking, the true measure of good or bad is whether something is life-affirming or anti-life. Natural universal principles uphold this all the time, with laser-sharp accuracy. If we go against natural processes and are life-abusing, we get a negative consequence. When we are aligned with natural life principles, we receive awesome feedback. When we feel resistance with life at any time, in thought word or deed, we can be assured we are are going against life in some way.
Human judgment of good/bad is definitely many times out of the loop of natural universal law, hence humans are fallible.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times."
By this statement you are claiming that your previous statement of abusing men, children and having delusions are neither right or wrong/bad or good but rather "perfect" evolutionary speaking. The distortion isn't with me. It is obviously with your perception. It is thinking like this that destroys society and civility.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Not a religious person as I'm sure you're all aware, but there's a lot to be said for "let he who is perfect cast the first stone".
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone". well, I've committed many "sins" and none of them include murder, so I'll be glad to cast the first stone at somebody that had a pregnant woman stabbed to death for the purpose of starting a "race war". now, if Manson wants to cast a stone at me for jacking off too much, he should feel free to do so.
"It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times."
And I stand behind this 100%. I understand the perfection of all things and the purposeful nature of the tiniest of movement or action in the universe. So when I decide something is "not okay" I am right away starting from a flawed perspective. I'm taking the perfection and miraculous nature of all that exists, and I am "imagining" it as flawed. In my experience, when a conflict exists, it is ALWAYS the human perception that holds the flaw, and the natural universe that is perfect. From this base, when I can accept something fully, such as an eating disorder--not shame it, and make it "wrong", which actually perpetuates the disorder itself, contributing to it's existence--but when I can really accept it as is and release the distortion from my view, THEN I can change it.
By this statement you are claiming that your previous statement of abusing men, children and having delusions are neither right or wrong/bad or good but rather "perfect" evolutionary speaking. The distortion isn't with me. It is obviously with your perception. It is thinking like this that destroys society and civility.
And by this statement you continue to show me that by your judgments of what I am saying you are not understanding. If you do not understand, your logic will be thereby be flawed. The problem comes in when you seek to make me wrong, rather than seek to understand. It's your choice, though. I personally go for accuracy over wanting to be "right".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone". well, I've committed many "sins" and none of them include murder, so I'll be glad to cast the first stone at somebody that had a pregnant woman stabbed to death for the purpose of starting a "race war". now, if Manson wants to cast a stone at me for jacking off too much, he should feel free to do so.
How would that make you any better than him OR make you feel any better?
AND how would it improve what he did or the situation in any way?
Can't believe I'm gonna quote another little religious ideology but "Violence begets violence"
And please don't take any of my quoting to indicate that I condone what he did or why in any way. But killing him would change absolutely nothing. All those people would still be dead, would still have died horrific, nonsensicle deaths.
And by this statement you continue to show me that by your judgments of what I am saying you are not understanding. If you do not understand, your logic will be thereby be flawed.
I don't think anyone's misunderstanding you. by your own writings, this person's logic CAN'T be flawed. now, having read several of your posts, my own perception is that you are a fruit and I would also wonder along with Juberoo how you manage to function outside an institution.
if manson's actions can't be determined to be right or wrong, then what society has done to him before and after his actions can't be determined to be right or wrong either. of course, that's fruity logic. when in Rome, do as the Romans do. well, in this country, the law says that killing another person is a crime. that makes it wrong, that's good enough for me.
How would that make you any better than him OR make you feel any better?
AND how would it improve what he did or the situation in any way?
Can't believe I'm gonna quote another little religious ideology but "Violence begets violence"
And please don't take any of my quoting to indicate that I condone what he did or why in any way. But killing him would change absolutely nothing. All those people would still be dead, would still have died horrific, nonsensicle deaths.
apparently, you think that killing a maniac is just as deplorable as killing an innocent person. well, we'll agree to disagree, I believe that people waive their right to live when they murder an innocent person. yeah, the innocent people in this case would still be dead whether Manson lives or dies. so it comes down to whether we'd be better off with Manson dead or alive. I'll take dead, because my perception is that he shouldn't be allowed to live after what he did.
I don't think anyone's misunderstanding you. by your own writings, this person's logic CAN'T be flawed.
Juberoo judged my statement, and misunderstood what I was saying. Then he drew conclusions from his misunderstanding. If you are behind that, and support Juberoo doing so, and follow a similar process, I can accept that.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Juberoo judged my statement, and misunderstood what I was saying. Then he drew conclusions from his misunderstanding. If you are behind that, and support Juberoo doing so, and follow a similar process, I can accept that.
how did he "misunderstand"?? is he not the judge of how he perceives something? so by your logic, there is no such thing as understanding or misunderstanding. because "understanding" would be "right" and "misunderstanding" would be "wrong", which are things that cannot exist, correct? maybe by the way YOU perceive things, he's misunderstanding. but I think he's understanding it just fine.
Comments
You take a great position in this debate, because you can never be wrong....
Say I am walking down the street past a homeless person laying on the sidewalk.... If I decide to attack him, steal his money, and beat him to death, you can say that my environment and genetics made me a monster, but if I decide to help him up, buy him lunch and clean clothes, and take him to a shelter, then you can say that my environment and genetics made me a caring person... You can never be wrong.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
did i say anything about him creating himself? all i mentioned was that he was a nut (with no comments as to what was behind it) and made a mention of trading places.
I always thought we agreed about this. You do know that some cause hightened your awareness to enable you to self-actualize. Something Manson will probably never get. Most people don't attain that level of enlightenment. In-fact they spit in it's face.
I will never be wrong with that view.
It's pretty well accepted that homosexuality is genetic, but even amongst monozygous twins there is only a .50 coherency in their sexuality. This is because environment plays a role, and it's no different for monozygous twins who were seperated at birth.
I mean, you really have to study things like sociology and psychology to get the idea in it's full capacity.
The problem comes in with judgment. When we judge my position in life as "better" and Charles Manson's as "worse", then we allow our own brain flaws and ego to distort reality.
I do not personally do that. I see Charles Manson's life, from conception to now as equally valid to my own. I'm just as valid and human as when I was psychiatrically hospitalized in the throes of delusions--on a few occasions. I am just as valid and human as when I have abused my boyfriends or when I created a dysfunctional family with my children. Others may not think so. I KNOW so. Objectively speaking, it is all experience. The problems come in when we add our moral judgments stemming from the duality of our human perspective--of good/bad, better/worse, etc. We split the world into acceptable and unacceptable. The only truth is what IS.
Charles Manson's life IS. I accept that with no conflict. My life IS. I accept that with no conflict. Charles Manson maintains the illness that caused him to orchestrate killing. It just is what it IS. We decide to keep in in jail in order to enable our loved ones to stay alive. It is what it is.
I spend each day creating awareness. But I always know what IS is. And the universe is in perfect balance, despite my opinion of it. It is when I decide something is "wrong" or "bad" and attempt the change it that I create more imbalance by splitting the whole into good/bad. So instead of coming from a false premise of imbalance, I seek to increase our awareness, knowing that where we are in each moment is for evolutionarily perfect reasons at all times. The Charles Mansons and Paul Bernardos are as much a valid part of our evolution as I am.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree with you, I just say it differently. I was just saying that, that level of enlightenment (for lack of a better word), flies in the face of pride and other human emotions. So many will not accept it even when it becomes apparent to them. I don't mean to blame them or say they are any less for it, but rather, it's an unfortunate result of the universe.
For example, in my family, my siblings ALL liked to see me as the "crazy" one and themselves as sane. I accepted "crazy" too...and lived it. And the experience of it was so awful, I learned to change it. My siblings, however, they kept their own problems projected onto me, and therefore delayed even touching on their own issues for a longgg time. When I became obviously not only well, but vibrantly healthy, with mental awareness to match, their false reality has tumbled down forcing them unprepared to begin to search within themselves. It's all perfect, and all in it's good time.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Sorry to go off-topic a bit. But this reminds me of a girl I am seeing. She is obese, but she has been playing competitive sports since she was 3 years old. Currently she plays 2 or 3 sports a week and works-out a few times a week. She is not getting any thinner. I attribute it to one of 11 genetic variations that account for 25% of obesity.
Anyway, since she was young, her brothers - who are younger - have always ridiculed her about her size. Her oldest brother, a rower, is very genetically fortunate and popular with girls and boys alike. He is very nasty towards her, and very self-conscious about his own looks. She has aquired some serious deficits as a result, which I am helping her to overcome.
It's just another example of this kind of thing. Ignorance.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Not that I am aware of. Which is surprising. Statistically speaking, she should have been, maybe she is one of the lucky few. Or maybe she hasn't told me about it.
I repressed memory of my first sexual assault until my daughter become the age I was when it happened to me. So repression is a possibility, too. But, yeah, consider the lack of sexual assault stories as a good thing when they are absent. There are all manner of psychological issues, though, that can cause the wide array of eating issues--many of which I've cycled through at some point or another. For example, the average person eats "prophylactically", eating more than they need due to an ingrained sense of "lack", which as an eating disorder can contribute to obesity. That's independent of binging, itself. Or indulging in unhealthy snack foods with are anti-life by being toxic to our systems in many ways. The underlying causes to eating issues of weight are about repression of feelings--stuffing our feelings down. So if your girl friend has been degraded in her family for her weight, it wouldn't be unheard of that such degradation and insensitivity towards her feelings could actually contribute to the problem--like in the Manson sense.
My numerous eating issues, which fluctuated all over, were hidden from those who knew me, for the most part. Well, except the "starving" part, which was socially acceptable as a female--to eat all dainty, and to ingest next to nothing, sadly. That was reinforced. But the unholy binges were "insane". And interestingly, I've never been obese. I had ways of managing it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
See, as far as I'm aware, she eats quite healthy. A lot better than I do. She only drinks water and ice-tea and when we go out, she orders relatively healthy meals. I bought a bag of chips one night and she slowly ate a few, and I devoured the bag, but she is larger than me.
But recently they discovered a link between stress and obesity that is unrelated to eating habits. I think it had to do with PPAR or Grhelin or Leptin or something. She has actually studied physiology and is going to univeristy for kinesiology. She wants to either be a personal trainer or a phys. ed. teacher.
If I ate what "normal" people ate, I would definitely be obese....or at the very least "matronly" looking like my grandmothers were. However, I take my naturally less "girly" figure, and work out and go with an "athletic" look. I work out regularly, with weights, and doing cardio. Although I've had an eating disorder past and cannot strictly maintain my diet because that is reminiscent of eating issues, I have resolved much of my eating issues, to a degree that in order to feel healthy and alert, I need to eat light, whole and fresh foods, which in turn is just basic, healthy and contributes to a long life and.....enLightenment.
It's great that she has her sights on a life affirming career goal. Is she taking the psychology stuff, too?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
See, I don't know exactly. I'm a bit confused, because she has read physiology and psychology textbooks. She just lent me her psychology textbook by Peter Gray and it's evident that she read it, besides that she told me she did. But she hasn't been to university yet, apparently you can take those courses in high-school.
We really connect intellectually because we've studied very similar things. She's studied neuroanatomy as well. She says she understands and is familiar with about 45% of what I talk about. We've had some pretty extensive conversations about metabolism and we've both learned from each other. She has the formal knowledge of it, but surprisingly she didn't know what PPAR-Delta was - something I learned from an HHMI lecture series.
Anyway, I guess this could be a private conversation.
WHAT???!!!
So you think that abusing boyfriends, neglecting children and having delusions is neither bad nor good/right or wrong? It just is? How do you function?
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
If you live by the ideology that "what is IS", and that there is no right or wrong/bad or good, then why would you need to alter your "eating issues"?
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I said I was as valid and as human when I was an abuser as I am now. Objectively speaking--devoid of subjective judgment--all is just pure experience. Your incredulity and distorting of what I did actually say symbolizes how flawed and distorted human judgment can be, and how we judge based on what we think, rather than on what is there before us.
Objectively speaking, the true measure of good or bad is whether something is life-affirming or anti-life. Natural universal principles uphold this all the time, with laser-sharp accuracy. If we go against natural processes and are life-abusing, we get a negative consequence. When we are aligned with natural life principles, we receive awesome feedback. When we feel resistance with life at any time, in thought word or deed, we can be assured we are are going against life in some way.
Human judgment of good/bad is definitely many times out of the loop of natural universal law, hence humans are fallible.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
By this statement you are claiming that your previous statement of abusing men, children and having delusions are neither right or wrong/bad or good but rather "perfect" evolutionary speaking. The distortion isn't with me. It is obviously with your perception. It is thinking like this that destroys society and civility.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
And I'll say it again because clearly the back row didn't hear me.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
"let he who is without sin cast the first stone". well, I've committed many "sins" and none of them include murder, so I'll be glad to cast the first stone at somebody that had a pregnant woman stabbed to death for the purpose of starting a "race war". now, if Manson wants to cast a stone at me for jacking off too much, he should feel free to do so.
And by this statement you continue to show me that by your judgments of what I am saying you are not understanding. If you do not understand, your logic will be thereby be flawed. The problem comes in when you seek to make me wrong, rather than seek to understand. It's your choice, though. I personally go for accuracy over wanting to be "right".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
How would that make you any better than him OR make you feel any better?
AND how would it improve what he did or the situation in any way?
Can't believe I'm gonna quote another little religious ideology but "Violence begets violence"
And please don't take any of my quoting to indicate that I condone what he did or why in any way. But killing him would change absolutely nothing. All those people would still be dead, would still have died horrific, nonsensicle deaths.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I don't think anyone's misunderstanding you. by your own writings, this person's logic CAN'T be flawed. now, having read several of your posts, my own perception is that you are a fruit and I would also wonder along with Juberoo how you manage to function outside an institution.
if manson's actions can't be determined to be right or wrong, then what society has done to him before and after his actions can't be determined to be right or wrong either. of course, that's fruity logic. when in Rome, do as the Romans do. well, in this country, the law says that killing another person is a crime. that makes it wrong, that's good enough for me.
apparently, you think that killing a maniac is just as deplorable as killing an innocent person. well, we'll agree to disagree, I believe that people waive their right to live when they murder an innocent person. yeah, the innocent people in this case would still be dead whether Manson lives or dies. so it comes down to whether we'd be better off with Manson dead or alive. I'll take dead, because my perception is that he shouldn't be allowed to live after what he did.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
how did he "misunderstand"?? is he not the judge of how he perceives something? so by your logic, there is no such thing as understanding or misunderstanding. because "understanding" would be "right" and "misunderstanding" would be "wrong", which are things that cannot exist, correct? maybe by the way YOU perceive things, he's misunderstanding. but I think he's understanding it just fine.