Wanna hear something that might make your head explode with shock then? I regularly email Obama's campaign, as well and they never have replied...not even once.
didn't he recently say his foreign policy would be like that of bush I and reagan!?!?!? sooooo...obama plans on selling arms to terrorists and violating numerous laws and treaties and be involved in covert ops and secret wars and even financing the training of terrorists w/ drug money....????
Whether he goes about doing that remains to be seen. It's the part about his undying support to an establishment that routinely commits acts of TRUE terrorism by bulldozing peoples homes, ravaging their land, and killing them in the process that short circuits his entire peace sentiment. Now thats true terrorism. Obama is ok with that apparently, and he calls himself antiwar and peace loving? Makes no sense whatsoever. Total disconnect.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Whether he goes about doing that remains to be seen. It's the part about his undying support to an establishment that routinely commits acts of TRUE terrorism by bulldozing peoples homes, ravaging their land, and killing them in the process that short circuits his entire peace sentiment. Now thats true terrorism. Obama is ok with that apparently, and he calls himself antiwar and peace loving? Makes no sense whatsoever. Total disconnect.
how is it that China is strong and innovative and yet they fight so few physical battles of war..? is it perhaps a greed thing.. where America, the great-hodgepodge, has developed whole-heartedly in tow with the maturation of capitalism, and China's industries and her slow sense of passive strength have seen success and power grow effortlessly...?
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
how is it that China is strong and innovative and yet they fight so few physical battles of war..? is it perhaps a greed thing.. where America, the great-hodgepodge, has developed whole-heartedly in tow with the maturation of capitalism, and China's industries and her slow sense of passive strength have seen success and power grow effortlessly...?
Imo, China is a 10 times worse place to live. True Orwellian prophecy from what I can see. They just sit quietly and conduct their own business in private, busily manufacturing anything and everything the world thinks it needs to buy on the cheap. The US could do the same as well but everyone would have to be willing to work in factories, and the oppression on Joe public would have to be stepped up to intolerable levels. The culture is more accepting of discipline and obediance I suppose.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Imo, China is a 10 times worse place to live. True Orwellian prophecy from what I can see. They just sit quietly and conduct their own business in private, busily manufacturing anything and everything the world thinks it needs to buy on the cheap. The US could do the same as well but everyone would have to be willing to work in factories, and the oppression on Joe public would have to be stepped up to intolerable levels. The culture is more accepting of discipline and obediance I suppose.
yeah, i wasnt trying to say i wish america would become china or that china is in any way inherently superior to the u.s.,.. everything youve said here is spot-on, and youve mentioned, china has a really introverted formula for handling global politics, so basically i was trying to allude the conversation about this ridiculous election shit towards more fundamental issues of civilization. for good or ill, the Chinese still seem to be quite content with themselves and their ongoing path towards cultural "prosperity".
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
No.
You're only interested in starting shit, stirring the pot, and ragging on people for having a prinicpled stance - giving them a hard time for refusing to throw their vote away on "the lesser of two evils".
Besides, its pretty bankrupt of you to profess you could give a rats ass who people vote for, and follow that with
So could you care less, or are you upset because you feel like Obama should win, and its going to be "our" fault if he doesn't, because we have our "heads in the clouds"?
I'm glad you think Obama is the right choice,
and super thrilled you are exercising your right to vote for him.
I just happen to think you are supremely delluded.
And for the record, i blame people like you for the shape this country is in. The "lesser of two evils", or "picking the best of the worst, because they are the 'most electable' " mentality IS what causes no "second tier" candidate to ever rise to the top.
The media tells you who you can and can't vote for (who is 'electable') and you, the people who refuse to just pick an honest bloke, make it so.
So go ahead.
Have fun pulling my weight.
I hope you get what you wanted with Obama (assuming they don't just stick Hillary in there anyhow), and i can't wait to hear your take on things a year or two from now when we are still over in Iraq, and when negative-dick has changed in this country. I can't wait to hear all the excuses you will make, and all the bullshit "reasoning" you will bring up to justify the continuance of war in the middle east, the shit stirring with iran, and the future mess we will continue to sink in to. Further, i can't wait to see how you will rally behind your little friend if and when we get attacked by "terrorists" again, and say, "Yeah, so what if we had to attack Iran. THEY attacked us. What would you do?"
In otherwords, TPTB will continue to provide their man (or woman, whichever gets "elected") with "valid" reasons for furthering their agenda, and you will continue to swallow it whole, always thinking your boy is the great savior for it.
So enjoy it.
I'll be holding my breathe from the sideline...
... or not.
.....so there's no doubt that it will be either of three choices.....and you see them as resulting in the exact same outcome? Absolutely no difference?
yeah, i wasnt trying to say i wish america would become china or that china is in any way inherently superior to the u.s.,.. everything youve said here is spot-on, and youve mentioned, china has a really introverted formula for handling global politics, so basically i was trying to allude the conversation about this ridiculous election shit towards more fundamental issues of civilization. for good or ill, the Chinese still seem to be quite content with themselves and their ongoing path towards cultural "prosperity".
There does seem to be a ridiculous amount of media coverage on every little aspect of who says what for the US election... It's a circus. It's actually kinda sad. Too much information. It's like a bad soap opera. Next the media will be reporting what each candidate eats for lunch, but when one thinks about it they are already.
I just finished watching a documentary called "dispatches undercover in Tibet" rumors of mandatory sterilization, monitoring of menstrual cycles...all denied endlessly by Chinese officials (of course)
Here's a torrent of the DVD rip if you're interested.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
.....so there's no doubt that it will be either of three choices.....and you see them as resulting in the exact same outcome? Absolutely no difference?
wait.
are you talking about the 3 different candidates?
Yes.
I see them as being 85% similar.
Amnesty for Illegals, War, Loss of Liberty, Globalist Trade, Wealth Redistribution
Only real difference is McCain is yet to say much about socialized medicine.
And as i said, i view that as an extremely negative point, so you won't see me making any decisions based on who is "offering"\threatening that reality.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Great replies, angleica, jeffbr, chopitdown, driftin and roland....it will save me the time from having to reply to this piece of crap.
methinks she doth bitch too much... is there a reason you're being so fucking cranky? :rolleyes: my god, i didn't even direct the original thread at nader supporters, yet you're all over it like a she-beast. vote for anyone you like, i seriously don't care. there aren't going to be enough of you to make any kind of impact, so it really doesn't matter much.
i applaud your voting your lofty-yet-unelectable-ideals, good for you. you go, girl. but as for me, i tend to be more of a realist. i know that trait sometimes rubs folks like you- head in the cloud types- the wrong way, but i'll just have to accept that as my fate, i guess.
take care.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
methinks she doth bitch too much... is there a reason you're being so fucking cranky? :rolleyes: my god, i didn't even direct the original thread at nader supporters, yet you're all over it like a she-beast. vote for anyone you like, i seriously don't care. there aren't going to be enough of you to make any kind of impact, so it really doesn't matter much.
i applaud your voting your lofty-yet-unelectable-ideals, good for you. you go, girl. but as for me, i tend to be more of a realist. i know that trait sometimes rubs folks like you- head in the cloud types- the wrong way, but i'll just have to accept that as my fate, i guess.
take care.
A realist that pretends to participate in the democracy perhaps. The republican party's biggest supporters are the ones most adversly affected by their policies. ANd the democrats pretend to offer change.
I will say this. After 8 years of the worst president in recorded history, and with someone as charismatic as Mccain opposing them, if the democrats can't win this elction they don't deserve to be a party.
I respect your opinion and don't expect to change your mind. But I would really be interested in evolving ideas with you as to how we progress this nation and how we move forward from here on out.
So if you have netflix or you rent...or whatever. I would really like ot hear your opinion and thoughts on this film...the special features are good as well. I see your intentions as truely honorable even though we have differing views on how to approach these problems. Even if it's not presidential...we could combine ideas on a grassroots level. We just need change, period.
shine on,
christie
__________________
Nader/Gonzalez '08!
'If any person in America has earned the right to be taken seriously, and to be debated on their own terms, surely it is Ralph Nader.'"
So i guess that was all just bullshit, huh, abook?
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
not at all. i believe we will rid ourselves of the repugnicans in the white house this time around. i think that's a positive thing, tho i'm sure the likes of you and drifting and apparently the obama-obsessed abook will disagree. perhaps you all think allowing mccain to win would be a good thing, who the fuck knows.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
no, not yet, tho i was planning to even before abook graced my pm inbox with her delightful invite. i have said countless times in this very thread that i respect and like nader, but i don't think he can win, and besides, who knows if he could GOVERN? does he even have any governing experience?? educate me, someone. has nader ever held elected office? president of the chess club, anything??
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
this is the problem with alot of my like minded friends of the left....
they come across as elitist...
she is not voting 3rd party so she is a defeatist? :rolleyes:
how many times do i have to hear "vote for nader if your a true progessive and want to change the system"... i heard it in 2000... i heard it in 2004... i hear it in 2008... and what change do i see... i see the worst president in history sleeping in the white house with the world on fire... and not one ounce of "change" after 3% of the country voted for the man that brought me the seatbelt... this is the 4th or 5th time he has run folks... dotn really see nader building a revolution anytime soon
when is nader and his supporters goign to stop with the elitist "vote for me and it will change the world by bucking the 2 parties" horseshit
there is a real election here with REAL fucking consequences... the next 8 years hang in the balance... what is at stake here is unimaginable in my opinion and the differences are as stark as black and white, literally
so if you want to support old seatbelt boy, then go ahead... just stop being the elitist assholes talking down to anyone that feels differently...
no, not yet, tho i was planning to even before abook graced my pm inbox with her delightful invite. i have said countless times in this very thread that i respect and like nader, but i don't think he can win, and besides, who knows if he could GOVERN? does he even have any governing experience?? educate me, someone. has nader ever held elected office? president of the chess club, anything??
He had done way more for this country than most elected officials and all 3 of the mainstreamers combined. I'm quite proud of my candidate's resume.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i heard it in 2000... i heard it in 2004... i hear it in 2008... and what change do i see... i see the worst president in history sleeping in the white house with the world on fire...
And the argument for not picking the lesser of the two evils goes something like this:
"What. So you thought that voting for Bush's 'democratic' Skull And Bones counterpart on the 'other side' of the 'spectrum' would have yielded better results?"
Face it.
If you want real change you have to put your vote where your conscience is, and get out there and get out the vote.
As long as the American public continues to SETTLE for what are pre-selected, pre-screened, and pre-rigged "choices", there will continue to be only a laughing farce of a "Democracy" running in this country.
Someone here said something about "realism".
You wanted it. You got it.
Truth.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
this is the problem with alot of my like minded friends of the left....
they come across as elitist...
she is not voting 3rd party so she is a defeatist? :rolleyes:
how many times do i have to hear "vote for nader if your a true progessive and want to change the system"... i heard it in 2000... i heard it in 2004... i hear it in 2008... and what change do i see... i see the worst president in history sleeping in the white house with the world on fire... and not one ounce of "change" after 3% of the country voted for the man that brought me the seatbelt... this is the 4th or 5th time he has run folks... dotn really see nader building a revolution anytime soon
when is nader and his supporters goign to stop with the elitist "vote for me and it will change the world by bucking the 2 parties" horseshit
there is a real election here with REAL fucking consequences... the next 8 years hang in the balance... what is at stake here is unimaginable in my opinion and the differences are as stark as black and white, literally
so if you want to support old seatbelt boy, then go ahead... just stop being the elitist assholes talking down to anyone that feels differently...
How is that horseshit? And how has anyone talked down to you? You wanna come here and debate and that's what we do. If you don't like debating then that's not my problem.
It's the Dems fault for not appealing to more voters...period. They have not deserved my vote, they will not be getting it again and the 2 party system is a fucking sham!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
methinks she doth bitch too much... is there a reason you're being so fucking cranky? :rolleyes: my god, i didn't even direct the original thread at nader supporters, yet you're all over it like a she-beast. vote for anyone you like, i seriously don't care. there aren't going to be enough of you to make any kind of impact, so it really doesn't matter much.
i applaud your voting your lofty-yet-unelectable-ideals, good for you. you go, girl. but as for me, i tend to be more of a realist. i know that trait sometimes rubs folks like you- head in the cloud types- the wrong way, but i'll just have to accept that as my fate, i guess.
take care.
I bitch about things that need to be addressed and no one is doing it hardly. I bitch about the things that matter to me because it's not about winning a debate on this message board...it's about standing up for what I believe in even if it's not the popular thing to do and even though I'm going to have to put up with an uphill battle.
Realist are people who mold themsleves to fit into a shitty situation, accept things for what they are and adapt. Us idealists are the ones making the situation better and working against the current situation towards this little thing we hold so dear called 'Progress'.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
not at all. i believe we will rid ourselves of the repugnicans in the white house this time around. i think that's a positive thing, tho i'm sure the likes of you and drifting and apparently the obama-obsessed abook will disagree. perhaps you all think allowing mccain to win would be a good thing, who the fuck knows.
Obama obsessed? I'm just here pointing out what I see. He's more than likely going to our next president and I'm going to say the things you're not going to see in the mainstream media. If you don't like it...don't read it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
this is the problem with alot of my like minded friends of the left....
they come across as elitist...
she is not voting 3rd party so she is a defeatist? :rolleyes:
The sentiment of "they aren't going to win anyways so...oh well" is a defeatist attitude . Yes.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I respect your opinion and don't expect to change your mind. But I would really be interested in evolving ideas with you as to how we progress this nation and how we move forward from here on out.
So if you have netflix or you rent...or whatever. I would really like ot hear your opinion and thoughts on this film...the special features are good as well. I see your intentions as truely honorable even though we have differing views on how to approach these problems. Even if it's not presidential...we could combine ideas on a grassroots level. We just need change, period.
shine on,
christie
__________________
Nader/Gonzalez '08!
'If any person in America has earned the right to be taken seriously, and to be debated on their own terms, surely it is Ralph Nader.'"
So i guess that was all just bullshit, huh, abook?
I sincerely meant every word of that pm and it was a genuine effort to reach out to some of you(the ones who I thought would be interested and open to it), and end some of this tension and see where we had common ground even though we disagree. I felt inspired and wanted to share that with some of you whom I know have their hearts in the right place.
How is it bullshit? Do you think I don't respect you based on me disagreeing with you? And I know you and others intentions are in the right place. I've never said different. That doesn't change the fact that I view Obama as the wrong way to go about it. Some of you get pissy and down right rude when I post something about Obama and it's uncalled for. Debate the topic or don't...that's what we're here for. I am able to civilly discuss these differences with plenty of people here even when I'm passionate or frustrated people seem to know that it is about the circumstances and not about them perosnally. I only have a problems with people like you and my2hands running around making snide comments that are usually off topic and never answering questions. That starts to piss a person off after a while. Sorry
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I respect your opinion and don't expect to change your mind. But I would really be interested in evolving ideas with you as to how we progress this nation and how we move forward from here on out.
So if you have netflix or you rent...or whatever. I would really like ot hear your opinion and thoughts on this film...the special features are good as well. I see your intentions as truely honorable even though we have differing views on how to approach these problems. Even if it's not presidential...we could combine ideas on a grassroots level. We just need change, period.
shine on,
christie
__________________
Nader/Gonzalez '08!
'If any person in America has earned the right to be taken seriously, and to be debated on their own terms, surely it is Ralph Nader.'"
So i guess that was all just bullshit, huh, abook?
You know, when i received this exact same PM in my messagebox, i assumed it was a PM from a fellow Pearl Jam fan who genuinely believed that 'my' intentions were good and that it was a PM written to me personally.
I didn't realize that it was a generic message that was being sent to any one who had displayed their support for Obama.
If i want Nader supporters campaigning personally to me, i'll sign up with the appropriate Nader base and they can email me direct. With my permission, because i've signed up.
You know, when i received this exact same PM in my messagebox, i assumed it was a PM from a fellow Pearl Jam fan who genuinely believed that 'my' intentions were good and that it was a PM written to me personally.
I didn't realize that it was a generic message that was being sent to any one who had displayed their support for Obama.
If i want Nader supporters campaigning personally to me, i'll sign up with the appropriate Nader base and they can email me direct. With my permission, because i've signed up.
I'm done here.
Obama 08
Just because I sent it to more than one person does not mean it wasn't a sincere attempt to reach out. Sheesh. Why do you think I would even bother? At the time, a lot of you guys were down on Nader and I wanted you to see that he was about supporting the same things you guys do. I wanted you to see how small movements and efforts do make a difference. I thought we could come together because we all have common ground on these issues. It wasn't an attempt to change your mind but to understand where I'm coming from and show you how we're all in this together. I don't understand how me sending it to others takes anything away from it. I guess I should have put that I forwarded it to others in the pm...but it was out of sincere respect and mutual feelings that I figured we all shared.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I want to give fully military and financial support to Isreal to continue it's apartheid regime in the middle east to bulldoze homes and routinely kill Palestinians in the name of promoting peace.
I'm Barak Obama and I support this message.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
it's a sad sight to see the vindictiveness by some, not to mention pettiness. anything but focus on issues. is it impossible to have a mature discussion around here anymore? what's w/ all the passive aggressive nastiness?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
i gave them a heads up you were coming
Whether he goes about doing that remains to be seen. It's the part about his undying support to an establishment that routinely commits acts of TRUE terrorism by bulldozing peoples homes, ravaging their land, and killing them in the process that short circuits his entire peace sentiment. Now thats true terrorism. Obama is ok with that apparently, and he calls himself antiwar and peace loving? Makes no sense whatsoever. Total disconnect.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.contemporist.com/2008/03/27/red-ribbon-in-tanghe-river-park
how is it that China is strong and innovative and yet they fight so few physical battles of war..? is it perhaps a greed thing.. where America, the great-hodgepodge, has developed whole-heartedly in tow with the maturation of capitalism, and China's industries and her slow sense of passive strength have seen success and power grow effortlessly...?
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Imo, China is a 10 times worse place to live. True Orwellian prophecy from what I can see. They just sit quietly and conduct their own business in private, busily manufacturing anything and everything the world thinks it needs to buy on the cheap. The US could do the same as well but everyone would have to be willing to work in factories, and the oppression on Joe public would have to be stepped up to intolerable levels. The culture is more accepting of discipline and obediance I suppose.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
yeah, i wasnt trying to say i wish america would become china or that china is in any way inherently superior to the u.s.,.. everything youve said here is spot-on, and youve mentioned, china has a really introverted formula for handling global politics, so basically i was trying to allude the conversation about this ridiculous election shit towards more fundamental issues of civilization. for good or ill, the Chinese still seem to be quite content with themselves and their ongoing path towards cultural "prosperity".
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
.....so there's no doubt that it will be either of three choices.....and you see them as resulting in the exact same outcome? Absolutely no difference?
There does seem to be a ridiculous amount of media coverage on every little aspect of who says what for the US election... It's a circus. It's actually kinda sad. Too much information. It's like a bad soap opera. Next the media will be reporting what each candidate eats for lunch, but when one thinks about it they are already.
I just finished watching a documentary called "dispatches undercover in Tibet" rumors of mandatory sterilization, monitoring of menstrual cycles...all denied endlessly by Chinese officials (of course)
Here's a torrent of the DVD rip if you're interested.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/4110415/..._2008_03_3 1_
and description
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/undercover+in+tibet/1824047
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
wait.
are you talking about the 3 different candidates?
Yes.
I see them as being 85% similar.
Amnesty for Illegals, War, Loss of Liberty, Globalist Trade, Wealth Redistribution
Only real difference is McCain is yet to say much about socialized medicine.
And as i said, i view that as an extremely negative point, so you won't see me making any decisions based on who is "offering"\threatening that reality.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
methinks she doth bitch too much... is there a reason you're being so fucking cranky? :rolleyes: my god, i didn't even direct the original thread at nader supporters, yet you're all over it like a she-beast. vote for anyone you like, i seriously don't care. there aren't going to be enough of you to make any kind of impact, so it really doesn't matter much.
i applaud your voting your lofty-yet-unelectable-ideals, good for you. you go, girl. but as for me, i tend to be more of a realist. i know that trait sometimes rubs folks like you- head in the cloud types- the wrong way, but i'll just have to accept that as my fate, i guess.
take care.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I will say this. After 8 years of the worst president in recorded history, and with someone as charismatic as Mccain opposing them, if the democrats can't win this elction they don't deserve to be a party.
"Would you pretty please...
watch this film:
http://www.anunreasonableman.com/
I respect your opinion and don't expect to change your mind. But I would really be interested in evolving ideas with you as to how we progress this nation and how we move forward from here on out.
So if you have netflix or you rent...or whatever. I would really like ot hear your opinion and thoughts on this film...the special features are good as well. I see your intentions as truely honorable even though we have differing views on how to approach these problems. Even if it's not presidential...we could combine ideas on a grassroots level. We just need change, period.
shine on,
christie
__________________
Nader/Gonzalez '08!
'If any person in America has earned the right to be taken seriously, and to be debated on their own terms, surely it is Ralph Nader.'"
So i guess that was all just bullshit, huh, abook?
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
defeatist?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
havent you seen that?
not at all. i believe we will rid ourselves of the repugnicans in the white house this time around. i think that's a positive thing, tho i'm sure the likes of you and drifting and apparently the obama-obsessed abook will disagree. perhaps you all think allowing mccain to win would be a good thing, who the fuck knows.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
no, not yet, tho i was planning to even before abook graced my pm inbox with her delightful invite. i have said countless times in this very thread that i respect and like nader, but i don't think he can win, and besides, who knows if he could GOVERN? does he even have any governing experience?? educate me, someone. has nader ever held elected office? president of the chess club, anything??
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
this is the problem with alot of my like minded friends of the left....
they come across as elitist...
she is not voting 3rd party so she is a defeatist? :rolleyes:
how many times do i have to hear "vote for nader if your a true progessive and want to change the system"... i heard it in 2000... i heard it in 2004... i hear it in 2008... and what change do i see... i see the worst president in history sleeping in the white house with the world on fire... and not one ounce of "change" after 3% of the country voted for the man that brought me the seatbelt... this is the 4th or 5th time he has run folks... dotn really see nader building a revolution anytime soon
when is nader and his supporters goign to stop with the elitist "vote for me and it will change the world by bucking the 2 parties" horseshit
there is a real election here with REAL fucking consequences... the next 8 years hang in the balance... what is at stake here is unimaginable in my opinion and the differences are as stark as black and white, literally
so if you want to support old seatbelt boy, then go ahead... just stop being the elitist assholes talking down to anyone that feels differently...
no...
He had done way more for this country than most elected officials and all 3 of the mainstreamers combined. I'm quite proud of my candidate's resume.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And the argument for not picking the lesser of the two evils goes something like this:
"What. So you thought that voting for Bush's 'democratic' Skull And Bones counterpart on the 'other side' of the 'spectrum' would have yielded better results?"
Face it.
If you want real change you have to put your vote where your conscience is, and get out there and get out the vote.
As long as the American public continues to SETTLE for what are pre-selected, pre-screened, and pre-rigged "choices", there will continue to be only a laughing farce of a "Democracy" running in this country.
Someone here said something about "realism".
You wanted it. You got it.
Truth.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
How is that horseshit? And how has anyone talked down to you? You wanna come here and debate and that's what we do. If you don't like debating then that's not my problem.
It's the Dems fault for not appealing to more voters...period. They have not deserved my vote, they will not be getting it again and the 2 party system is a fucking sham!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I bitch about things that need to be addressed and no one is doing it hardly. I bitch about the things that matter to me because it's not about winning a debate on this message board...it's about standing up for what I believe in even if it's not the popular thing to do and even though I'm going to have to put up with an uphill battle.
Realist are people who mold themsleves to fit into a shitty situation, accept things for what they are and adapt. Us idealists are the ones making the situation better and working against the current situation towards this little thing we hold so dear called 'Progress'.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Obama obsessed? I'm just here pointing out what I see. He's more than likely going to our next president and I'm going to say the things you're not going to see in the mainstream media. If you don't like it...don't read it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Thats un-American.
People like you should be rounded up and sent to one of them secret prisons,
to be waterboarded, dehumanized, and held permanently without trial.
:cool:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The sentiment of "they aren't going to win anyways so...oh well" is a defeatist attitude . Yes.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
(")_(")
I sincerely meant every word of that pm and it was a genuine effort to reach out to some of you(the ones who I thought would be interested and open to it), and end some of this tension and see where we had common ground even though we disagree. I felt inspired and wanted to share that with some of you whom I know have their hearts in the right place.
How is it bullshit? Do you think I don't respect you based on me disagreeing with you? And I know you and others intentions are in the right place. I've never said different. That doesn't change the fact that I view Obama as the wrong way to go about it. Some of you get pissy and down right rude when I post something about Obama and it's uncalled for. Debate the topic or don't...that's what we're here for. I am able to civilly discuss these differences with plenty of people here even when I'm passionate or frustrated people seem to know that it is about the circumstances and not about them perosnally. I only have a problems with people like you and my2hands running around making snide comments that are usually off topic and never answering questions. That starts to piss a person off after a while. Sorry
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Bring it on!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You know, when i received this exact same PM in my messagebox, i assumed it was a PM from a fellow Pearl Jam fan who genuinely believed that 'my' intentions were good and that it was a PM written to me personally.
I didn't realize that it was a generic message that was being sent to any one who had displayed their support for Obama.
If i want Nader supporters campaigning personally to me, i'll sign up with the appropriate Nader base and they can email me direct. With my permission, because i've signed up.
I'm done here.
Obama 08
Just because I sent it to more than one person does not mean it wasn't a sincere attempt to reach out. Sheesh. Why do you think I would even bother? At the time, a lot of you guys were down on Nader and I wanted you to see that he was about supporting the same things you guys do. I wanted you to see how small movements and efforts do make a difference. I thought we could come together because we all have common ground on these issues. It wasn't an attempt to change your mind but to understand where I'm coming from and show you how we're all in this together. I don't understand how me sending it to others takes anything away from it. I guess I should have put that I forwarded it to others in the pm...but it was out of sincere respect and mutual feelings that I figured we all shared.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm Barak Obama and I support this message.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way