In NCfans and jlews defense they do have a point. Our economy is so dependent on oil that to suddenly cut it off or send prices sky rocketing would be devestating. The effects would be far worse than anything we can imagine. It is unfortunate but for the time being we have to play nice with Saudi Arabia. We sold our soul to them and it's not going to easy getting it back. What we should have done was back in the 1970, with the gas shortages, was dedicate ourselves to alternate fuel sources. By now we would have completely weened ourselves off oil and the Middle East wouldn't even be an after thought. Unfortunetly for some unexplained reason we didn't and the problems only grew in proportion. We have to do now what should have done 30 years ago. I just hope that Saudi Arabia doesn't fucking implode before we are weened off oil.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
In NCfans and jlews defense they do have a point. Our economy is so dependent on oil that to suddenly cut it off or send prices sky rocketing would be devestating. The effects would be far worse than anything we can imagine. It is unfortunate but for the time being we have to play nice with Saudi Arabia. We sold our soul to them and it's not going to easy getting it back. What we should have done was back in the 1970, with the gas shortages, was dedicate ourselves to alternate fuel sources. By now we would have completely weened ourselves off oil and the Middle East wouldn't even be an after thought. Unfortunetly for some unexplained reason we didn't and the problems only grew in proportion. We have to do now what should have done 30 years ago. I just hope that Saudi Arabia doesn't fucking implode before we are weened off oil.
I believe we could easily have alternatives now...the technology is there. They are milking it for everything they can squeeze out of it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I believe we could easily have alternatives now...the technology is there. They are milking for everything they can squeeze out of it.
Well that is the problem. We could have easily been free of oil by this point in time, but someone(s) have prevented this from happeneing. I guess you would have o follow the money to see who.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well that is the problem. We could have easily been free of oil by this point in time, but someone(s) have prevented this from happeneing. I guess you would have o follow the money to see who.
Separation of Corporation and State
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well that is the problem. We could have easily been free of oil by this point in time, but someone(s) have prevented this from happeneing. I guess you would have o follow the money to see who.
Yeah, I think this is a great question. Our society has been screwed by somebody and damn if I'm smart enough to figure it out. I wasn't even alive in the 70's!
But I would LOVE somebody to write a book about it and explain why Brazil saw this coming and turned to sugarcane-based ethanol. I mean, the green movement originally started in the 70's didn't it? I think it was dirty word back then, but now people are starting to realize it is the only way to preserve our planet for future generations.
Can' somebody do a documentary or something? I am dying to know what government policies were implemented and what corporations were major players, and who if any scientist spoke out about this 30/40 years ago.
The fact that we are prisoner to other people's oil makes me mad as hell! Here is a great short article that sums up this oil problem and the repercussions we face today.
Insult to Injury
The worst thing about the global oil spike brought on by increased consumption is not worries over global warming, or the idea that the United States is not “energy independent” — Japan does not overly worry that it must rely on others for food — but that our thirst has driven up the world price and with it the importance of the Middle East while sending half-a-trillion dollars in petro-profits to a primordial region.
And now we are seeing the wages of that circulating cash, as the Gulf monarchies are racing to acquire nuclear reactors ($4 billion a pop) to counter Iran’s soon to be online nuclear arsenal.
In other words, a region that has neither the innate economic resources to fund such a program nor the scientific expertise to see it through nor the stability that is the precursor for economic development, has the cash from oil (that someone else found, exploited, and developed) to buy Western help in creating the very weapons that might soon be turned against the West.
The idea of a nuclear Wahhabi state, nearby a nuclear theocracy in Iran, with nuclear Pakistan looking over their shoulders is horrific — especially when coupled with Western appeasement as evidenced by many European diplomats deploring the “militarization” of their continent by U.S. offers to base an ABM shield in Eastern Europe, and the culturally relativistic arguments that if the Western powers are nuclear (U.S., France, U.K., Israel), who is to say a Sharia-run Saudi Arabia or 7th-century Iran should not likewise be? The fact is that already we are confronted with the nightmare that the majority of nuclear powers in the world today is (with India) only democratic by a small margin, and the illiberal states are multiplying and may soon compose an antithetical majority — Russia, China, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran?.
We have the worst choice of leaving this mess to our children who will be faced with both oil and atomic extortion, or the bad one of dealing with it now when the will to is nearly nonexistent in the West. A 1939 all over again. When reading jihadist websites, one is struck not about their worries over the morality of preempting and using a nuclear device against a Western city but only the practicality of carrying it out.
I believe we could easily have alternatives now...the technology is there. They are milking it for everything they can squeeze out of it.
I have a hard time accepting this. although i'm sure there is much truth to big business and government blocking it.
if the technology is there, that means someone stands to make a shitload of money. after all, our cars, homes, business, etc all need some sort of resource to get them running. whether it be alternative or not. someone is going to profit highly from alternative fuel source the same way the government, corporations, and the saudi kingdom do with oil.
1. anytime someone says something critical of the US government he turns to the old "you hate america" bullshit. sorry dude, that doesnt fly with me. this country was founded on dissent, and will continue to evolve because of open dissent. period. and this thread was about saudi arabia and not even the US?
for the record hands, I do not believe you hate america. but they lurk around here.
I have a hard time accepting this. although i'm sure there is much truth to big business and government blocking it.
if the technology is there, that means someone stands to make a shitload of money. after all, our cars, homes, business, etc all need some sort of resource to get them running. whether it be alternative or not. someone is going to profit highly from alternative fuel source the same way the government, corporations, and the saudi kingdom do with oil.
They want to make all they can from what they can right now. They know they'll have plenty of time to profit from alternatives when the oil's gone.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
for the record hands, I do not believe you hate america.
thanks jlew, and for the record your not a 3rd grader with nationalistic beer goggles. that ncfan guy however... (relax Nc, its a joke)
but they lurk around here.
i havent seen them. their passion for the truth is not a testimony to their hatred, it is a testimony of their passion for a government that better represents their ideals and just causes... thats how i see it anyway.
we say we are the best country in the world, so lets live up to it.
selling ourselves to a 3rd rate monarchy for some crude is pathetic if you ask me. but again, thats just me
I have a hard time accepting this. although i'm sure there is much truth to big business and government blocking it.
if the technology is there, that means someone stands to make a shitload of money. after all, our cars, homes, business, etc all need some sort of resource to get them running. whether it be alternative or not. someone is going to profit highly from alternative fuel source the same way the government, corporations, and the saudi kingdom do with oil.
Using Brazil as an example, if the US where to switch over to say a sugarcane based ethanol it wouldn't be the oil companies raking in the profits. If you follow the money the people with the most to gain from keeping fossil fuels as are main source of fuel would be the petro companies. Along that same logic the people with the most to loose if we where to switch to an alternative fuel would also be the petro companies. Now I can hardly blame oil companies for wanting to keep their product as the only source of fuel. I can however blame the government for laying in bed with these companies to make sure that their product remains our sole source of fuel.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Using Brazil as an example, if the US where to switch over to say a sugarcane based ethanol it wouldn't be the oil companies raking in the profits. If you follow the money the people with the most to gain from keeping fossil fuels as are main source of fuel would be the petro companies. Along that same logic the people with the most to loose if we where to switch to an alternative fuel would also be the petro companies. Now I can hardly blame oil companies for wanting to keep their product as the only source of fuel. I can however blame the government for laying in bed with these companies to make sure that their product remains our sole source of fuel.
I guess I'm hoping capitalism takes over and the best most efficent product wins. clearly not the case.
thats IF the technology and recourses are available to be disturbed worldwide and quickly. I'm not so sure that its ready.
For those of you who may not have read it, Robert Baer wrote a great book about this called Sleeping with the Devil. He does a good job detailing the history of the US/Saudi relationship and the effects it has on the world today. He also describes how this relationship weighs heavily on US foreign policy. It was a great read, but let me warn you it can get you extremely pissed off to see how much the Saudis get away with all because we need their oil.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I guess I'm hoping capitalism takes over and the best most efficent product wins. clearly not the case.
thats IF the technology and recourses are available to be disturbed worldwide and quickly. I'm not so sure that its ready.
I don't think it's ready here in the states simply because we haven't but the effort into making the change. If Brazil can do it we sure as hell can and should have done it first.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Using Brazil as an example, if the US where to switch over to say a sugarcane based ethanol it wouldn't be the oil companies raking in the profits. If you follow the money the people with the most to gain from keeping fossil fuels as are main source of fuel would be the petro companies. Along that same logic the people with the most to loose if we where to switch to an alternative fuel would also be the petro companies. Now I can hardly blame oil companies for wanting to keep their product as the only source of fuel. I can however blame the government for laying in bed with these companies to make sure that their product remains our sole source of fuel.
I can blame both. These companies know what it takes to keep this shit pumping and they lobby to make sure it keeps flowing. It's sick...at some point you would think they could put people's damn lives over their greedy profits but nooo. And of course, the govt is EVEN WORSE! They are elected to protect and serve us, so they are outright liars and disgusting to boot with complete disregard for the people who put them in the positions they hold. this shit has got to end.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I can blame both. These companies know what it takes to keep this shit pumping and they lobby to make sure it keeps flowing. It's sick...at some point you would think they could put people's damn lives over their greedy profits but nooo. And of course, the govt is EVEN WORSE! They are elected to protect and serve us, so they are outright liars and disgusting to boot with complete disregard for the people who put them in the positions they hold. this shit has got to end.
Well as long as the majority of Americans continue to live their lives with their heads down and not questioning the government it will not end till the last drop of crude is sucked up from that god forsaken place.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
if a man smacks around your mother, and i surrender my ideals and support him and become ally's with him for my own economic interest what does that make me.
a piece of shit.
same thing, just on a different level because they are smacking around hundreds of thousands of mothers
thats IF the technology and recourses are available to be disturbed worldwide and quickly. I'm not so sure that its ready.
They are rapidly approaching having computers that process beyond the capabilities of human beings and you're telling me they can't come up with the technology for alternative fuels for a car to run on...or anything else for that matter?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well as long as the majority of Americans continue to live their lives with their heads down and not questioning the government it will not end till the last drop of crude is sucked up from that god forsaken place.
I think people are begininng to wake up but it seems so damn slow.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They are rapidly approaching having computers that process beyond the capabilities of human beings and you're telling me they can't come up with the technology for alternative fuels for a car to run on...or anything else for that matter?
yes, thats what i'm saying. writing software and improving computer capabilities is an entire different ballpark when talking about alternative fuel "technology"
yes, thats what i'm saying. writing software and improving computer capabilities is an entire different ballpark when talking about alternative fuel "technology"
Yeah, there's little league and then there's the majors.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm saying, to me, finding alternative methods for fueling seem quite simplistic when compared to building computers that surpass human capabilities. I mean shit, we can get energy from the sun and wind.
Comments
and we did
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I believe we could easily have alternatives now...the technology is there. They are milking it for everything they can squeeze out of it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well that is the problem. We could have easily been free of oil by this point in time, but someone(s) have prevented this from happeneing. I guess you would have o follow the money to see who.
Separation of Corporation and State
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
BINGO!!!
Yeah, I think this is a great question. Our society has been screwed by somebody and damn if I'm smart enough to figure it out. I wasn't even alive in the 70's!
But I would LOVE somebody to write a book about it and explain why Brazil saw this coming and turned to sugarcane-based ethanol. I mean, the green movement originally started in the 70's didn't it? I think it was dirty word back then, but now people are starting to realize it is the only way to preserve our planet for future generations.
Can' somebody do a documentary or something? I am dying to know what government policies were implemented and what corporations were major players, and who if any scientist spoke out about this 30/40 years ago.
The fact that we are prisoner to other people's oil makes me mad as hell! Here is a great short article that sums up this oil problem and the repercussions we face today.
Insult to Injury
The worst thing about the global oil spike brought on by increased consumption is not worries over global warming, or the idea that the United States is not “energy independent” — Japan does not overly worry that it must rely on others for food — but that our thirst has driven up the world price and with it the importance of the Middle East while sending half-a-trillion dollars in petro-profits to a primordial region.
And now we are seeing the wages of that circulating cash, as the Gulf monarchies are racing to acquire nuclear reactors ($4 billion a pop) to counter Iran’s soon to be online nuclear arsenal.
In other words, a region that has neither the innate economic resources to fund such a program nor the scientific expertise to see it through nor the stability that is the precursor for economic development, has the cash from oil (that someone else found, exploited, and developed) to buy Western help in creating the very weapons that might soon be turned against the West.
The idea of a nuclear Wahhabi state, nearby a nuclear theocracy in Iran, with nuclear Pakistan looking over their shoulders is horrific — especially when coupled with Western appeasement as evidenced by many European diplomats deploring the “militarization” of their continent by U.S. offers to base an ABM shield in Eastern Europe, and the culturally relativistic arguments that if the Western powers are nuclear (U.S., France, U.K., Israel), who is to say a Sharia-run Saudi Arabia or 7th-century Iran should not likewise be? The fact is that already we are confronted with the nightmare that the majority of nuclear powers in the world today is (with India) only democratic by a small margin, and the illiberal states are multiplying and may soon compose an antithetical majority — Russia, China, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran?.
We have the worst choice of leaving this mess to our children who will be faced with both oil and atomic extortion, or the bad one of dealing with it now when the will to is nearly nonexistent in the West. A 1939 all over again. When reading jihadist websites, one is struck not about their worries over the morality of preempting and using a nuclear device against a Western city but only the practicality of carrying it out.
if the technology is there, that means someone stands to make a shitload of money. after all, our cars, homes, business, etc all need some sort of resource to get them running. whether it be alternative or not. someone is going to profit highly from alternative fuel source the same way the government, corporations, and the saudi kingdom do with oil.
except my misspelling of SepAration.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They want to make all they can from what they can right now. They know they'll have plenty of time to profit from alternatives when the oil's gone.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
we say we are the best country in the world, so lets live up to it.
selling ourselves to a 3rd rate monarchy for some crude is pathetic if you ask me. but again, thats just me
just ask Bush's grandfather...
Using Brazil as an example, if the US where to switch over to say a sugarcane based ethanol it wouldn't be the oil companies raking in the profits. If you follow the money the people with the most to gain from keeping fossil fuels as are main source of fuel would be the petro companies. Along that same logic the people with the most to loose if we where to switch to an alternative fuel would also be the petro companies. Now I can hardly blame oil companies for wanting to keep their product as the only source of fuel. I can however blame the government for laying in bed with these companies to make sure that their product remains our sole source of fuel.
thats IF the technology and recourses are available to be disturbed worldwide and quickly. I'm not so sure that its ready.
I don't think it's ready here in the states simply because we haven't but the effort into making the change. If Brazil can do it we sure as hell can and should have done it first.
I can blame both. These companies know what it takes to keep this shit pumping and they lobby to make sure it keeps flowing. It's sick...at some point you would think they could put people's damn lives over their greedy profits but nooo. And of course, the govt is EVEN WORSE! They are elected to protect and serve us, so they are outright liars and disgusting to boot with complete disregard for the people who put them in the positions they hold. this shit has got to end.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well as long as the majority of Americans continue to live their lives with their heads down and not questioning the government it will not end till the last drop of crude is sucked up from that god forsaken place.
i ask again
They are rapidly approaching having computers that process beyond the capabilities of human beings and you're telling me they can't come up with the technology for alternative fuels for a car to run on...or anything else for that matter?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think people are begininng to wake up but it seems so damn slow.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yeah, there's little league and then there's the majors.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm saying, to me, finding alternative methods for fueling seem quite simplistic when compared to building computers that surpass human capabilities. I mean shit, we can get energy from the sun and wind.
http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/1356.jpg
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
true. but I just know enough about it personally to understand why its not the norm.
solar panels and windmills, I believe, just do not provide enough energy to fill out needs.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm?
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Essays/suppression_bird.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+Free+energy+suppression&btnG=Search
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
:eek: did someone just say conspiracy!!!!
You have to admit there was a lot of cases there.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde