Was christianity a hoax?

Matt8townsend

(quote0 Except for the fact that this is not generally what theists do. in fact there are many, many hardcore scientists who have come to adopt a thiestic worldview BECAUSE their scientific studies in their respective disciplines.
Besides, how would that be any different than the atheist inserting for the unknown "We can't figure it out, but some day we will, because it for damn sure isn't God"[/quote]

---

I doubt any creditable scientist would say 'it for damn sure isn't God' - or at least they shouldn't - obvioulsy you cannot prove a negative. But I argue that just because science cannot at present provide the answer is no need to revert to 'God' as an 'explanation'.

Like I said in my view God dosn't satisfactorily answer any of the questions about existsence or the nature of the universe because it poses more questions than it purports to solve - i.e. what is the nature of God, how did 'he' come into existence etc etc. It's beacuse you generally just get the fob off that he has always existed - outside of time and space and the scientific laws that have been demonstrated to govern the universe that it is the abdication of an explanation.

And yes of course there are plenty of 'scientists' who believe in God - they tend to be deists rather than theists though since theism tends to contradict accepted and demonstrable scientific 'proofs' such as evolutionism for example. Theism is far more rife amongst fundamentalists of any religious persuasion.

There are many deists in the scientific community who whilst they disregard the theistic notion of an intervening God in the biblical sense do entertain belief in a supreme deity - the 'tuner' who set in place the laws of physics that govern the universe etc. Interestingly many studies have demonstrated that this trend is far less commom amongst biologists and more common amongst physicists.

This is because physics has yet to discover any kind of metatheory that satisfactorily explains how its laws came to be whilst biology has natural selection and hence no need to resort to God to fill the gap.

I think it is logical to presume that physics will eventually discover it's own equivalent. In the meantime I personally see no reason to presuppose a notion of God. God is as insufficent as shrugging your shoulders and saying 'magic'.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

Incorrect. Psychological studies are all completely scientific. Science is a method of study.

You may be referring to the fact that psychology is not a 'hard' science.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/science

here is a good website about psychology.
http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

here is a good website about psychology.
http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html

According to the dictionary definitions I gave for science:
--systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
--systematized knowledge in general.
--knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
-- a particular branch of knowledge.
-- skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

Each of these apply to varying aspects of psychology. It is not an exact science. It includes much interpretation of the facts. By my experience there are those who think the 'soft' sciences are valid, and those who do not.

Last Exodus

catefrances wrote:

how is our existence proof of God?

The complex processes that give way to life I think in and of itself suggests order, and therefore higher powers working in the Universe. Didn't Einstein say the organization of the universe suggests intelligent life? Same kind of thing.

Last Exodus

Collin wrote:

I disagree. In my opinion there is absolutely no evidence of a god or a higher being, none whatsoever. In your opinion there's evidence all around us, fine.
But I find this statement you made very odd: 'faith is something one must have in the absence of evidence'. I can quite wrap my mind around that one. What exactly do you mean?

I guess I sarcastically meant that organized religion HAS to push Faith because organized religion has no proof of the bullshit they sell. That is, an all knowing, all controlling, judgmental god who looks down on us and decides who's a good boy and who's a bad boy in deciding which way to send him or her after death. That part is rubbish. But proof of higher intelligence or higher life, as it were, can be inferred from the very complexity of life on this planet. In sum, I believe in something greater than man. Call it what you want. That does not mean I believe in the biblical god or that he had a son. That is the part that has no evidence behind it.

deadnothingbetter

angelica wrote:

According to the dictionary definitions I gave for science:
--systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
--systematized knowledge in general.
--knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
-- a particular branch of knowledge.
-- skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

Each of these apply to varying aspects of psychology. It is not an exact science. It includes much interpretation of the facts. By my experience there are those who think the 'soft' sciences are valid, and those who do not.

Well, there is still large debate about psychology being a science or not. My interpretation of it is that we cannot rely on it too much. So I am not devaluating this study, (I wouldn't have a reason to and I don't have a phd of some kind) I only made reference to this because of a certain person on this board trying to subject my own "spiritual" ecstasies to be explained by some neurologic disorder that I might need to get help for. As the link also states, homosexuality was once also considered to be a mental illness. Trust me. That is a lot coming from someone who does not support a homosexual lifestyle. (not to offend anyone)

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Well, there is still large debate about psychology being a science or not.

It's not as large as you think.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

It's not as large as you think.

well, maybe not collin. but does it matter? the truth is there are many who disregard psychology as science. I learned this in school and I think I also provided a link that spoke of this matter. did you read it?

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, maybe not collin. but does it matter?

Well, in a way it does. You said psychology wasn't considered a real science as an answer to his claim, which is a pretty weak argument.

But that doesn't mean he is right. I'm guessing it was Ahnimus, right?

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

Well, in a way it does. You said psychology wasn't considered a real science as an answer to his claim, which is a pretty weak argument.

But that doesn't mean he is right. I'm guessing it was Ahnimus, right?

See this is the kind of attitude that doesn't make you have any friends. no, it doesn't matter. Psychology used to say that homosexuals were "retards". Do you think that's true? What makes you so sure that I have a neurologic disorder? Did you read the link?

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

See this is the kind of attitude that doesn't make you have any friends.

I have plenty of friends.

Psychology used to say that homosexuals were "retards". Do you think that's true?

No, I don't. Neither does any psychologist today. But if we are going to talk about the past and past experiences to criticize, note that Christianity has a very very dark background.

What makes you so sure that I have a neurologic disorder? Did you read the link?

Did you read my post? Where did I said you have one?

And yes, I've read your link I respectfully disagree.

catefrances

i wonder. what people who believe jesus was the son of God think about all those other classic mythologies where the Gods procreated with humans giving us some of our most heroic characters of literature.

Collin

catefrances wrote:

i wonder. what people who believe jesus was the son of God think about all those other classic mythologies where the Gods procreated with humans giving us some of our most heroic characters of literature.

I wonder about that too.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

I have plenty of friends.



No, I don't. Neither does any psychologist today. But if we are going to talk about the past and past experiences to criticize, note that Christianity has a very very dark background.



Did you read my post? Where did I said you have one?

And yes, I've read your link I respectfully disagree.

I'm sure you have friends and I apologize. I read some of your comments wrong.

Neither do I think that homosexuals have any mental disorders. If you do not agree with the link it's your business. I'm not saying that what the link said is something carved on stone (as well as for any other information that you might base your "ideas" with). Again, I only posted that to make a point. And I will have to remind you that it is something that I also learned in school.

Again my mistake about what I said. I read your post wrong. What you originally wrote saying, "that doesn't mean he is right." I mistakenly read for "he was probably right." But I stick to psychology not being considered a science. If you want I will provide you with more information. At any rate, it really doesn't matter to me.

As for christianity having a dark dark past, yes I am fully aware. But that topic doesn't interest me because I don't follow christianity. I think I've made mention of that before in here.

miller8966

lol what religion doesnt have a dark past?

Islam..lol

Last Exodus

catefrances wrote:

i wonder. what people who believe jesus was the son of God think about all those other classic mythologies where the Gods procreated with humans giving us some of our most heroic characters of literature.

Blasphemy probably

Last Exodus

miller8966 wrote:

lol what religion doesnt have a dark past?

Islam..lol

I dont know of any murderin Buddhists...Buddhists dont blow their own shit up for Buddha do they? They just smoke a bowl and let it be..

miller8966

Last Exodus wrote:

I dont know of any murderin Buddhists...Buddhists dont blow their own shit up for Buddha do they? They just smoke a bowl and let it be..

ever hear of sri lanka? Or how about those people in japan with the train station gassing?

angelica

deadnothingbetter wrote:

Well, there is still large debate about psychology being a science or not. My interpretation of it is that we cannot rely on it too much. So I am not devaluating this study, (I wouldn't have a reason to and I don't have a phd of some kind) I only made reference to this because of a certain person on this board trying to subject my own "spiritual" ecstasies to be explained by some neurologic disorder that I might need to get help for. As the link also states, homosexuality was once also considered to be a mental illness. Trust me. That is a lot coming from someone who does not support a homosexual lifestyle. (not to offend anyone)

Yeah, hey, you and I are definitely on the same side about spiritual experiences being valid. I've had many people try to pathologise my spiritual experience as being illness too. I'm definitely with you. Subjective experience is valid--100%, no matter what. It's your experience.

I used to devalue psychology. But then I healed numerous disorders, and when I got to the bottom of them, I found that the basic psychological principles I once disbelieved were true. But yes, there is a lot of misunderstanding and misuse, outside of and within the field of psychology.

JamMastaE

there is proof of intelligent design all around us!!do you really think this all started with the "big bang"????