Cafferty File: McCain supported invading Iraq, opposes Russia's advances on Georgia

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Comments

  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    spyguy wrote:
    you do know that south osseatia is part of Georgia. right? how could Georgia invade its own country?


    1989 - Demands for more autonomy in the South Ossetia region lead to violent clashes between Georgians and Ossetians.

    1990-91 – South Ossetia declares its intentions to secede, leading to more clashes.

    1991 – The Soviet Union collapses.

    1992 – South Ossetians vote in favour of independence in an unrecognised referendum. Hundreds die in sporadic violence, which continues until June when Russian, Georgian and South Ossetian leaders meet to sign an armistice and agree the creation of a tripartite peacekeeping force.

    November 1993 - South Ossetia drafts its own constitution.

    November 1996 - South Ossetia elects its first president
  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    December 2001 - South Ossetia elects wrestling champion Eduard Kokoity as president in unrecognised elections.

    2002 – Kokoity asks Moscow to recognise the republic's independence and absorb it into Russia.

    2003 – The Georgian president, Eduard Shevardnadze, is toppled in the rose revolution.

    2004 - Mikhail Saakashvili wins Georgian presidential election and declares his intentions to bring breakaway regions of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Ajaria back into the fold.

    2006 - South Ossetians vote overwhelmingly in favour of independence from Tbilisi in an unrecognised referendum. In a simultaneous referendum, the region's minority ethnic Georgians vote to stay with Tbilisi.

    October 2007 - Talks hosted by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe between Georgia and South Ossetia break down.

    March 2008 - South Ossetia asks the world to recognise its independence from Georgia, following the west's support for Kosovo's secession from Serbia.

    March 2008 - Georgia's bid to join Nato prompts Russia's parliament to urge the Kremlin to recognise the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    April 2008 - South Ossetia rejects a Georgian power-sharing deal and insists on full independence.

    August 2008 - Fighting breaks out between Georgian and separatist South Ossetian forces
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    I understand the region is fucked up...but as of today SO is part of Georgia. but international community (which includes the US) has to do what it can to try and stop the invasion and get the sides to sit down and talk.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    I understand the region is fucked up...but as of today SO is part of Georgia. but international community (which includes the US) has to do what it can to try and stop the invasion and get the sides to sit down and talk.

    I agree that the international community should try to get these two sides to talk, even the US. My problem is that people from this administration are standing there on their moral pedal stool telling Russia that they can't invade a sovereign nation. We are they to tell Russia that.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    _outlaw wrote:
    well, I don't remember who it was specifically, but I heard a professor the other day speaking about how the Russia-Georgia situation is quite similar to the USA-Kosovo situation in Yugoslavia.

    So it's not the same as the US & Iraq?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    I agree that the international community should try to get these two sides to talk, even the US. My problem is that people from this administration are standing there on their moral pedal stool telling Russia that they can't invade a sovereign nation. We are they to tell Russia that.

    so many US politicians are hypocritical assholes, I know. I still have no problem with them speaking up about the invasion. if they, or americans like you and me, want to throw a little shit back at them, thats fine with me too. as long as Russia (or Georgia or whoever) gets checked im good.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    I agree that the international community should try to get these two sides to talk, even the US. My problem is that people from this administration are standing there on their moral pedal stool telling Russia that they can't invade a sovereign nation. We are they to tell Russia that.

    but you did say in a previous post that we should keep our fucking mouth shut....stay out of the problem completely....let them settle it. (I'm paraphrasing)

    here you are agree we should get them to talk. ??
  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    spyguy wrote:
    I understand the region is fucked up...but as of today SO is part of Georgia. but international community (which includes the US) has to do what it can to try and stop the invasion and get the sides to sit down and talk.



    sit down and talk? you sound like Obama.....
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    robbie wrote:
    sit down and talk? you sound like Obama.....

    whats your solution? war?
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    robbie wrote:
    sit down and talk? you sound like Obama.....
    :rolleyes:
    So you don't agree that the international community (which, like it or not, does include the US), should try to get these two sides to talk?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    US is asking Georgia to make major concessions to Russia in order to stop this..

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_russia_georgia
  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    spyguy wrote:
    whats your solution? war?


    No... Im all for sit down and talk, but isnt your buddy Cotton Hill and all of his surrogates telling us that Obama was neive for suggesting they sit down and talk while Cotton's Idea was to sabre rattle and talk about how Russia should suffer for their actions and how "we are all Georgians"? Obama was the one to suggest they nned to talk and has caught nothing but hell from the media while they Praise Cotton hill for being so stong on the subject.... so to be clear, I am not for war... that is your guys position. I was just pointing out that you seem to share Obama's view on the situation.
  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," Bush said.

    WHAT FUCKING PLANET IS THIS GUY LIVING ON????? DO WE EVEN HAVE 1 VALID REPORTER IN THIS COUNTRY TO CALL HIM ON THIS SHIT????? AND McCAIN SAYS "in the 21st century, nations do not invade other nations"... and Condi says.." You cant get away with invading a country, overthrowing its govenment and taking over it's Capital"..... SOMEONE HAS TO CALL THEM ON THIS... you really dont see the irony ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    robbie wrote:
    No... Im all for sit down and talk, but isnt your buddy Cotton Hill and all of his surrogates telling us that Obama was neive for suggesting they sit down and talk while Cotton's Idea was to sabre rattle and talk about how Russia should suffer for their actions and how "we are all Georgians"? Obama was the one to suggest they nned to talk and has caught nothing but hell from the media while they Praise Cotton hill for being so stong on the subject.... so to be clear, I am not for war... that is your guys position. I was just pointing out that you seem to share Obama's view on the situation.

    what makes u you think I support McCain? actually I support Bush/Rice's position on this matter. they are the ones who are sitting down and talking, and pushing for a peaceful solution to the situation. Obama is completely irrelevant, as is McCain.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    robbie wrote:
    "Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," Bush said.

    WHAT FUCKING PLANET IS THIS GUY LIVING ON????? DO WE EVEN HAVE 1 VALID REPORTER IN THIS COUNTRY TO CALL HIM ON THIS SHIT????? AND McCAIN SAYS "in the 21st century, nations do not invade other nations"... and Condi says.." You cant get away with invading a country, overthrowing its govenment and taking over it's Capital"..... SOMEONE HAS TO CALL THEM ON THIS... you really dont see the irony ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    I'm glad they are saying what they say. who gives a fuck if its ironic or hypocritical. feel free to call them out all you want. even use all caps if it makes u feel better. the goal is to stop war.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    spyguy wrote:
    but you did say in a previous post that we should keep our fucking mouth shut....stay out of the problem completely....let them settle it. (I'm paraphrasing)

    here you are agree we should get them to talk. ??

    I said that the issues is a Russian/Georgian one and that we have no right to tell anyone what to do, specially in this situation, but that it was completely acceptable to offer our serves in brokering a cease fire or a deal to end hostilities. This is the role the US should play around the world. As a peaceful negotiator unless military action is called for, example WW II. If we see ourselves as a role model for all nations then we should start acting like one. We shouldn't be harshly criticizing and threatening another country when they are acting in the same manner in which we are.

    You mentioned Darfur in another post and I forgot to reply. I see our role in Darfur as a humanitarian one. Offer aid, medicine, food, supplies to a people desperately in need of it. Along with that humanitarian aid we should, through diplomacy, be trying to bring an end to the tragedy there. If that means providing support to a UN peacekeeping force then so be it, but I don't think we should send in our military a la Somalia.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • robbie
    robbie Posts: 883
    spyguy wrote:
    I'm glad they are saying what they say. who gives a fuck if its ironic or hypocritical. feel free to call them out all you want. even use all caps if it makes u feel better. the goal is to stop war.


    they can say whatever they want, but even if reporters don't have the balls to call them on it, and Americans are to stupid to realize how hypocritical it is, they will be laughed off the world stage. You simply CANNOT conduct foreign policy as Bush/McCain have done over the past 7 years and then have the world take you seriously. We have NO RIGHT to involve ourselves in this situation. we gave that right away when we ran the world like drunk cowboys for 7 years. then when someone comes along and wants to have a responsable foreign policy, and the world is thrilled to see that prospect, Your Buddy makes fun of him for being "the biggest celeberity in the world" as if the world having hope that we might no be led by a lunatic is a bad thing.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    mammasan wrote:
    I said that the issues is a Russian/Georgian one and that we have no right to tell anyone what to do, specially in this situation, but that it was completely acceptable to offer our serves in brokering a cease fire or a deal to end hostilities. This is the role the US should play around the world. As a peaceful negotiator unless military action is called for, example WW II. If we see ourselves as a role model for all nations then we should start acting like one. We shouldn't be harshly criticizing and threatening another country when they are acting in the same manner in which we are.

    well in situations like war you sometimes cant ask nicely. and this is Russia. as you know they have a really bad past of invading other countries. they can not go unchecked.

    mammasan wrote:
    You mentioned Darfur in another post and I forgot to reply. I see our role in Darfur as a humanitarian one. Offer aid, medicine, food, supplies to a people desperately in need of it. Along with that humanitarian aid we should, through diplomacy, be trying to bring an end to the tragedy there. If that means providing support to a UN peacekeeping force then so be it, but I don't think we should send in our military a la Somalia.

    well this is a whole other issue with no easy solution. UN peacekeepers are basically useless and the only way to truly stop the genocide there would be to send in the american military. IMO
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    robbie wrote:
    they can say whatever they want, but even if reporters don't have the balls to call them on it, and Americans are to stupid to realize how hypocritical it is, they will be laughed off the world stage. You simply CANNOT conduct foreign policy as Bush/McCain have done over the past 7 years and then have the world take you seriously. We have NO RIGHT to involve ourselves in this situation. we gave that right away when we ran the world like drunk cowboys for 7 years. then when someone comes along and wants to have a responsable foreign policy, and the world is thrilled to see that prospect, Your Buddy makes fun of him for being "the biggest celeberity in the world" as if the world having hope that we might no be led by a lunatic is a bad thing.

    blah blah blah. bitch and moan about bush all you want. as the leader of the free world, he shouldn't sit back and let Russia start invading whoever they want. like it or not, the US has a strong voice in the international community and always will. I think you need to pay closer attention to what the US is actually doing behind the scenes. because right now you are only focused on calling bush and the US government assholes instead of focusing on what they are actually doing.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_russia_georgia
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    spyguy wrote:
    well this is a whole other issue with no easy solution. UN peacekeepers are basically useless and the only way to truly stop the genocide there would be to send in the american military. IMO
    I'll give you a big fat hint. Sending in the american military will not stop anything. Unless you plan on signing up yourself, along with hundreds of thousands of others, or voting to reintroduce the draft, last time i checked we don't have anyone left to send.

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