What if the election came down to...

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

This is where we disagree. You think it's the government's job to get those people out of New Orleans or to fix the levies. I think if the people want to live there, then they sure as hell better fix their own levies. Otherwise, they should move the hell out of there. There is no need for government to come in and "help." The people can fix the situation nicely on their own.

"The government shouldn't fix the levies, the people should!"
That's the biggest load of shit. What's the plan, here? Have everyone who lives in a flood prone area to build their own private levies that extend to the edges of their own property lines - with no uniform design? No worries about the neighbor. If his levy fails, it's not like it will wash over into my property, right?

Jesus Christ, what do you think the government is?

RainDog

mammasan wrote:

A lot of the social programs people depend on today can be easily provided on a community by community basis. Our society has become so dependent on the government that it is truly sickening. I understand that government is a necessary evil in our lives for such things as national defense, interstate commerce, and to forge one strong economy instead of 50 individual small to struggling economies, but beyond that point there is very little need for a federal government. All else can be accomplished on a state level and/or a community level.

"A lot of the social programs people depend on today can be easily provided on a community (government) by community (government) basis. Our society has become so dependent on the government that it is truly sickening."

Interesting take there. I know you mention "federal" government near the end of your post, but you're talking about the same thing. With the exception of the stuff you mention here, most things aren't handled by the federal government directly. It provides funds to the states and communities, and a little oversight on how it's spent (more oversight would be nice, considering how these states and communities often spend).

Now, if you think that the feds should just pull out of the funding business all together, then no, many of those states and communities wouldn't be able to handle these things themselves.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

"The government shouldn't fix the levies, the people should!"
That's the biggest load of shit. What's the plan, here? Have everyone who lives in a flood prone area to build their own private levies that extend to the edges of their own property lines - with no uniform design? No worries about the neighbor. If his levy fails, it's not like it will wash over into my property, right?

Jesus Christ, what do you think the government is?

Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.

Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

Now, if you think that the feds should just pull out of the funding business all together, then no, many of those states and communities wouldn't be able to handle these things themselves.

That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.

You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?

No.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.

Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.

You can say that. You might even believe it. But you know what makes me smile? It is your problem, too. You're tax dollars are still coming down here no matter how many words you type in all caps (well, not your tax dollars, but the tax dollars of those of us who actually have jobs).

And who said the federal government is ALWAYS the answer? However, last I checked, Katrina crossed local, county/parish, and state lines. I.e., FEDERAL territory. And let's see how well the rest of the country does without Gulf Coast shipping.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

And let's see how well the rest of the country does without Gulf Coast shipping.

And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.

Yeah, I'd love to go back to the days before the 1930s. And by the sound of it, you have all the ideas to do just that. Elect CorporateWhore, to bring us into the new 19th century!

CorporateWhore wrote:

You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?

No.

Like anything else, FEMA works when run by the right people. Don't appoint horse traders to run it, and you're less likely to get horse shit.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.

And you think we don't do that? Seems like your advocating a shared responsibility. Hey, I agree there.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

Like anything else, FEMA works when run by the right people. Don't appoint horse traders to run it, and you're less likely to get horse shit.

Since when is the government NOT run by dumbasses?

Good luck next hurricane, New Orleans.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

And you think we don't do that? Seems like your advocating a shared responsibility. Hey, I agree there.

When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.

They do not believe in a shared responsibility.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.

They do not believe in a shared responsibility.

Eighty percent of the city was under water. You have no idea what you're talking about.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

Eighty percent of the city was under water. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You too seem to be of that ilk because you seem to think in the present tense.

You mean nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated?

I could've driven down there (from Virginia) in the time I heard it was coming.

There's no excuse for apathy.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

You too seem to be of that ilk because you seem to think in the present tense.

You mean nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated?

I could've driven down there (from Virginia) in the time I heard it was coming.

There's no excuse for apathy.

See, you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated? Everyone knew that the hurricane was coming. A vast majority of the people evacuated the city. Nothing is 100%, but you're too much of a black and white, all or nothing antagonistic blowhard to see that.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

See, you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated? Everyone knew that the hurricane was coming. A vast majority of the people evacuated the city. Nothing is 100%, but you're too much of a black and white, all or nothing antagonistic blowhard to see that.

Dumbasses stayed. They deserve to get screwed if they ignore the warnings.

Rhinocerous Surprise

CorporateWhore wrote:

Dumbasses stayed. They deserve to get screwed if they ignore the warnings.

Those people deserve to have their homes washed away, their lives basically destroyed by a natural disaster? Whatever about shared responsibility, but a little compassion wouldn't be amiss.

CorporateWhore

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Those people deserve to have their homes washed away, their lives basically destroyed by a natural disaster? Whatever about shared responsibility, but a little compassion wouldn't be amiss.

They don't deserve to have their homes destroyed, obviously. If they stay behind and don't evacuate, why should they expect assistance?

Rhinocerous Surprise

CorporateWhore wrote:

They don't deserve to have their homes destroyed, obviously. If they stay behind and don't evacuate, why should they expect assistance?

Well, do you know the circumstances behind their choice not to evacuate? To say that we should just leave them there is a very cold-hearted attitude.

The government's handling of the Katrina crisis was despicable, and this was just one facet of that. And it doesn't mean we shouldn't give the government this kind of responsibility - it just means the government failed to live up to its given role. And I think this extreme incompetence is curable by getting the Bush administration out of there. Neither Hilary nor Ron could fail to improve.

CorporateWhore

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

And it doesn't mean we shouldn't give the government this kind of responsibility - it just means the government failed to live up to its given role.

Failure of this magnitude is inherent in its nature. Look at 9/11. They didn't see that coming and the CIA has a MASSIVE budget.

Government is imperfect and it will always fail.

I just think you should give it less responsibility if it fails so frequently.

Rhinocerous Surprise

CorporateWhore wrote:

Failure of this magnitude is inherent in its nature. Look at 9/11. They didn't see that coming and the CIA has a MASSIVE budget.

Government is imperfect and it will always fail.

I just think you should give it less responsibility if it fails so frequently.

9/11 was the same administration:)

El_Kabong

CorporateWhore wrote:

That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.

You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?

No.

especially when they pick to run FEMA who's previous job was judging horses...

i wonder how these fools slip past all these real conservatives and why they still vote to appoint them??