This is where we disagree. You think it's the government's job to get those people out of New Orleans or to fix the levies. I think if the people want to live there, then they sure as hell better fix their own levies. Otherwise, they should move the hell out of there. There is no need for government to come in and "help." The people can fix the situation nicely on their own.
"The government shouldn't fix the levies, the people should!"
That's the biggest load of shit. What's the plan, here? Have everyone who lives in a flood prone area to build their own private levies that extend to the edges of their own property lines - with no uniform design? No worries about the neighbor. If his levy fails, it's not like it will wash over into my property, right?
Jesus Christ, what do you think the government is?
A lot of the social programs people depend on today can be easily provided on a community by community basis. Our society has become so dependent on the government that it is truly sickening. I understand that government is a necessary evil in our lives for such things as national defense, interstate commerce, and to forge one strong economy instead of 50 individual small to struggling economies, but beyond that point there is very little need for a federal government. All else can be accomplished on a state level and/or a community level.
"A lot of the social programs people depend on today can be easily provided on a community (government) by community (government) basis. Our society has become so dependent on the government that it is truly sickening."
Interesting take there. I know you mention "federal" government near the end of your post, but you're talking about the same thing. With the exception of the stuff you mention here, most things aren't handled by the federal government directly. It provides funds to the states and communities, and a little oversight on how it's spent (more oversight would be nice, considering how these states and communities often spend).
Now, if you think that the feds should just pull out of the funding business all together, then no, many of those states and communities wouldn't be able to handle these things themselves.
"The government shouldn't fix the levies, the people should!"
That's the biggest load of shit. What's the plan, here? Have everyone who lives in a flood prone area to build their own private levies that extend to the edges of their own property lines - with no uniform design? No worries about the neighbor. If his levy fails, it's not like it will wash over into my property, right?
Jesus Christ, what do you think the government is?
Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.
Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Now, if you think that the feds should just pull out of the funding business all together, then no, many of those states and communities wouldn't be able to handle these things themselves.
That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.
You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?
No.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.
Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.
You can say that. You might even believe it. But you know what makes me smile? It is your problem, too. You're tax dollars are still coming down here no matter how many words you type in all caps (well, not your tax dollars, but the tax dollars of those of us who actually have jobs).
And who said the federal government is ALWAYS the answer? However, last I checked, Katrina crossed local, county/parish, and state lines. I.e., FEDERAL territory. And let's see how well the rest of the country does without Gulf Coast shipping.
And let's see how well the rest of the country does without Gulf Coast shipping.
And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.
Yeah, I'd love to go back to the days before the 1930s. And by the sound of it, you have all the ideas to do just that. Elect CorporateWhore, to bring us into the new 19th century!
You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?
No.
Like anything else, FEMA works when run by the right people. Don't appoint horse traders to run it, and you're less likely to get horse shit.
And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.
And you think we don't do that? Seems like your advocating a shared responsibility. Hey, I agree there.
And you think we don't do that? Seems like your advocating a shared responsibility. Hey, I agree there.
When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.
They do not believe in a shared responsibility.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.
They do not believe in a shared responsibility.
Eighty percent of the city was under water. You have no idea what you're talking about.
You too seem to be of that ilk because you seem to think in the present tense.
You mean nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated?
I could've driven down there (from Virginia) in the time I heard it was coming.
There's no excuse for apathy.
See, you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated? Everyone knew that the hurricane was coming. A vast majority of the people evacuated the city. Nothing is 100%, but you're too much of a black and white, all or nothing antagonistic blowhard to see that.
See, you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated? Everyone knew that the hurricane was coming. A vast majority of the people evacuated the city. Nothing is 100%, but you're too much of a black and white, all or nothing antagonistic blowhard to see that.
Dumbasses stayed. They deserve to get screwed if they ignore the warnings.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Dumbasses stayed. They deserve to get screwed if they ignore the warnings.
Those people deserve to have their homes washed away, their lives basically destroyed by a natural disaster? Whatever about shared responsibility, but a little compassion wouldn't be amiss.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Those people deserve to have their homes washed away, their lives basically destroyed by a natural disaster? Whatever about shared responsibility, but a little compassion wouldn't be amiss.
They don't deserve to have their homes destroyed, obviously. If they stay behind and don't evacuate, why should they expect assistance?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
They don't deserve to have their homes destroyed, obviously. If they stay behind and don't evacuate, why should they expect assistance?
Well, do you know the circumstances behind their choice not to evacuate? To say that we should just leave them there is a very cold-hearted attitude.
The government's handling of the Katrina crisis was despicable, and this was just one facet of that. And it doesn't mean we shouldn't give the government this kind of responsibility - it just means the government failed to live up to its given role. And I think this extreme incompetence is curable by getting the Bush administration out of there. Neither Hilary nor Ron could fail to improve.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.
You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?
No.
especially when they pick to run FEMA who's previous job was judging horses...
i wonder how these fools slip past all these real conservatives and why they still vote to appoint them??
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.
so does that mean everyone that doesn't live in New York can leave Iraq and Afghanistan?? I mean, they didn't fly planes into a building in Oklahoma, let the New Yorkers deal w/ the war!!!!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.
They do not believe in a shared responsibility.
maybe some of those were the ppl who tried to evacuate but were turned around by armed police and told to go back home?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.
Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.
"Conservatism is fine with people taking care of eachother, so long as there is no unnatural change from the traditional order of society. The Puritans lived on common lands together and they could be considered a rather conservative society. They certainly took care of one another.
Conservatives don't believe the government must take care of your fellow man. We believe that we can do it just fine."
...
I don't get it. on the one hand, you say that society... fellow man... will take care of his neighbor, not the Government. And on the other hand you basically say, "Fuck them assholes (the other people)... I'm only looking out for myself".
I think you mean to say... government shouldn't take care of other people... other people should take care of other people. But, leave me out.
...
Now... I believe in personal responsibility. But, I also believe the strong should help the weak, not pound on them. The able bodied should help the wounded, not leave them to die.
I don't care how someone got themselves into a tough situation... all I concern myself with is getting them out of it. Although, I believe THEY need to admit to and take full responsibility for their bonehead decisions.
But, i also realize that some people are not afforded the choice... in the case of Katrina... if you don't have a means to evecuate in... you're kinda screwed.
If you don't want to help... don't. But, don't try to pass off all of this moral religious bullshit on the rest of us. Just go home and take care of yourself and continue to say, "It's not my problem" and leave the rest of us who are trying to do something... do something.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If you don't want to help... don't. But, don't try to pass off all of this moral religious bullshit on the rest of us.
I said communities should help one another. What is it that liberals don't understand about federalism? It's such a simple concept yet on this message board I've fielded numerous posts just like yours asking me "OMG HOW WILL THEY LIVE IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESNT HELP THEM????/// YOU'RE NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN MORAL RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT WHHAAAAA."
I do not live in a community with New Orleans. Louisiana people live in a community with New Orleans people. Therefore, Louisiana people should help one another. This is what I was referring to.
When I said, "Not my problem," I meant that it truly was not my problem. You see, New Orleans does not reside in Virginia. My state tax dollars would not go to building levies for them because I do not live in Louisiana. They would go towards building a levy in Virginia. But, you see, Virginia does not have this issue and that is why I live in Virginia. Because it is not below sea level. I've put some thought into where I live, unlike New Orleans people.
You claimed you were a Republican but your insistence that my help come in the form of the national government is complete and utter liberalism. My help should come in the form of state help. The federal government routinely fucks shit like this up, as we've noted time and time again.
So, if I have to field another dumbass comment regarding my federalist views on New Orleans, then I think that will be ample proof that there are people on this message board who are border-line retarded.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I said communities should help one another. What is it that liberals don't understand about federalism? It's such a simple concept yet on this message board I've fielded numerous posts just like yours asking me "OMG HOW WILL THEY LIVE IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESNT HELP THEM????/// YOU'RE NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN MORAL RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT WHHAAAAA."
I do not live in a community with New Orleans. Louisiana people live in a community with New Orleans people. Therefore, Louisiana people should help one another. This is what I was referring to.
When I said, "Not my problem," I meant that it truly was not my problem. You see, New Orleans does not reside in Virginia. My state tax dollars would not go to building levies for them because I do not live in Louisiana. They would go towards building a levy in Virginia. But, you see, Virginia does not have this issue and that is why I live in Virginia. Because it is not below sea level. I've put some thought into where I live, unlike New Orleans people.
You claimed you were a Republican but your insistence that my help come in the form of the national government is complete and utter liberalism. My help should come in the form of state help. The federal government routinely fucks shit like this up, as we've noted time and time again.
So, if I have to field another dumbass comment regarding my federalist views on New Orleans, then I think that will be ample proof that there are people on this message board who are border-line retarded.
I'm going to go on record and say it's not what you're writing - it's your dickish attitude.
People know what you're talking about. Many of them, myself included, simply don't agree with you.
Well we can all be dicks, as you humbly demonstrated. But, I don't appreciate being forced to consistently reiterate my points in what seems like an attempt to discredit me through sheer repetition.
No one has said why a federalist view doesn't work - they merely state that the national governent would do better because it's more "efficient." They don't offer any proof as to why and when I note the myriad number of issues that the national government has failed on, they point to George W. Bush as the reason. This fails to explain the problems BEFORE George W. Bush, such has the inability of the Great Society programs and affirmative action to uplift the social position of African-Americans.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Perhaps I'm failing to understand who I'm dealing with here, after all.
You got 9/11 conspiracy theorists as the dominant political philosophers on this message board, so perhaps I shouldn't take the special treatment so seriously.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Well we can all be dicks, as you humbly demonstrated. But, I don't appreciate being forced to consistently reiterate my points in what seems like an attempt to discredit me through sheer repetition.
No one has said why a federalist view doesn't work - they merely state that the national governent would do better because it's more "efficient." They don't offer any proof as to why and when I note the myriad number of issues that the national government has failed on, they point to George W. Bush as the reason. This fails to explain the problems BEFORE George W. Bush, such has the inability of the Great Society programs and affirmative action to uplift the social position of African-Americans.
Because government has always been corrupted by corporate interests. We as a society can actually participate in our democracy and hold our elected officials accountable...that's why it hasn't worked in the past. We allow bad people and half ass programs to stay in place instead of working to provide better ones.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Perhaps I'm failing to understand who I'm dealing with here, after all.
You got 9/11 conspiracy theorists as the dominant political philosophers on this message board, so perhaps I shouldn't take the special treatment so seriously.
and then we have christian fundies like you...so what?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
That's the biggest load of shit. What's the plan, here? Have everyone who lives in a flood prone area to build their own private levies that extend to the edges of their own property lines - with no uniform design? No worries about the neighbor. If his levy fails, it's not like it will wash over into my property, right?
Jesus Christ, what do you think the government is?
Interesting take there. I know you mention "federal" government near the end of your post, but you're talking about the same thing. With the exception of the stuff you mention here, most things aren't handled by the federal government directly. It provides funds to the states and communities, and a little oversight on how it's spent (more oversight would be nice, considering how these states and communities often spend).
Now, if you think that the feds should just pull out of the funding business all together, then no, many of those states and communities wouldn't be able to handle these things themselves.
Your liberal mind cannot comprehend the possibility of local government accomplishing such a feat, but yes, it can be done. National government isn't ALWAYS the answer, RainDog. If a community wants to protect itself, it can. If it doesn't want to pay for a levy, then they can all leave the area.
Please don't start another post with "BUT THEY CANT AFFORD TO BUILD A LEVY." Not my problem.
-Enoch Powell
That would be your uninformed opinion my friend. You see, you have no basis to believe that. Since the 1930s, we've been knee deep in the trenches of liberalism and the federal government has always funded everything we want.
You mean federal funding programs like FEMA? That works really well. You think I should put my trust in FEMA when I'm sitting on my roof waiting for help from the government?
No.
-Enoch Powell
And who said the federal government is ALWAYS the answer? However, last I checked, Katrina crossed local, county/parish, and state lines. I.e., FEDERAL territory. And let's see how well the rest of the country does without Gulf Coast shipping.
And let's see how well the Gulf Coast does without Gulf Coast shipping. People who live there have an incentive to watch their own asses. Sure, other states can help them if they want. But, it's their priority to ensure that they won't die in another hurricane.
-Enoch Powell
Like anything else, FEMA works when run by the right people. Don't appoint horse traders to run it, and you're less likely to get horse shit.
Since when is the government NOT run by dumbasses?
Good luck next hurricane, New Orleans.
-Enoch Powell
When I see people on top of their roofs waiting for help, it reminds me that there is a vast portion of society that depends on the government for everything. Those are the people who could've taken care of themselves but expected the government to come rescue them.
They do not believe in a shared responsibility.
-Enoch Powell
You too seem to be of that ilk because you seem to think in the present tense.
You mean nobody knew that the hurricane was coming? No one evacuated?
I could've driven down there (from Virginia) in the time I heard it was coming.
There's no excuse for apathy.
-Enoch Powell
Dumbasses stayed. They deserve to get screwed if they ignore the warnings.
-Enoch Powell
Those people deserve to have their homes washed away, their lives basically destroyed by a natural disaster? Whatever about shared responsibility, but a little compassion wouldn't be amiss.
They don't deserve to have their homes destroyed, obviously. If they stay behind and don't evacuate, why should they expect assistance?
-Enoch Powell
Well, do you know the circumstances behind their choice not to evacuate? To say that we should just leave them there is a very cold-hearted attitude.
The government's handling of the Katrina crisis was despicable, and this was just one facet of that. And it doesn't mean we shouldn't give the government this kind of responsibility - it just means the government failed to live up to its given role. And I think this extreme incompetence is curable by getting the Bush administration out of there. Neither Hilary nor Ron could fail to improve.
Failure of this magnitude is inherent in its nature. Look at 9/11. They didn't see that coming and the CIA has a MASSIVE budget.
Government is imperfect and it will always fail.
I just think you should give it less responsibility if it fails so frequently.
-Enoch Powell
9/11 was the same administration:)
especially when they pick to run FEMA who's previous job was judging horses...
i wonder how these fools slip past all these real conservatives and why they still vote to appoint them??
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so does that mean everyone that doesn't live in New York can leave Iraq and Afghanistan?? I mean, they didn't fly planes into a building in Oklahoma, let the New Yorkers deal w/ the war!!!!
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
maybe some of those were the ppl who tried to evacuate but were turned around by armed police and told to go back home?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Here's another qute from you... ...
I don't get it. on the one hand, you say that society... fellow man... will take care of his neighbor, not the Government. And on the other hand you basically say, "Fuck them assholes (the other people)... I'm only looking out for myself".
I think you mean to say... government shouldn't take care of other people... other people should take care of other people. But, leave me out.
...
Now... I believe in personal responsibility. But, I also believe the strong should help the weak, not pound on them. The able bodied should help the wounded, not leave them to die.
I don't care how someone got themselves into a tough situation... all I concern myself with is getting them out of it. Although, I believe THEY need to admit to and take full responsibility for their bonehead decisions.
But, i also realize that some people are not afforded the choice... in the case of Katrina... if you don't have a means to evecuate in... you're kinda screwed.
If you don't want to help... don't. But, don't try to pass off all of this moral religious bullshit on the rest of us. Just go home and take care of yourself and continue to say, "It's not my problem" and leave the rest of us who are trying to do something... do something.
Hail, Hail!!!
I said communities should help one another. What is it that liberals don't understand about federalism? It's such a simple concept yet on this message board I've fielded numerous posts just like yours asking me "OMG HOW WILL THEY LIVE IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESNT HELP THEM????/// YOU'RE NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN MORAL RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT WHHAAAAA."
I do not live in a community with New Orleans. Louisiana people live in a community with New Orleans people. Therefore, Louisiana people should help one another. This is what I was referring to.
When I said, "Not my problem," I meant that it truly was not my problem. You see, New Orleans does not reside in Virginia. My state tax dollars would not go to building levies for them because I do not live in Louisiana. They would go towards building a levy in Virginia. But, you see, Virginia does not have this issue and that is why I live in Virginia. Because it is not below sea level. I've put some thought into where I live, unlike New Orleans people.
You claimed you were a Republican but your insistence that my help come in the form of the national government is complete and utter liberalism. My help should come in the form of state help. The federal government routinely fucks shit like this up, as we've noted time and time again.
So, if I have to field another dumbass comment regarding my federalist views on New Orleans, then I think that will be ample proof that there are people on this message board who are border-line retarded.
-Enoch Powell
People know what you're talking about. Many of them, myself included, simply don't agree with you.
Now fuck off.
Nicely done.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well we can all be dicks, as you humbly demonstrated. But, I don't appreciate being forced to consistently reiterate my points in what seems like an attempt to discredit me through sheer repetition.
No one has said why a federalist view doesn't work - they merely state that the national governent would do better because it's more "efficient." They don't offer any proof as to why and when I note the myriad number of issues that the national government has failed on, they point to George W. Bush as the reason. This fails to explain the problems BEFORE George W. Bush, such has the inability of the Great Society programs and affirmative action to uplift the social position of African-Americans.
-Enoch Powell
You got 9/11 conspiracy theorists as the dominant political philosophers on this message board, so perhaps I shouldn't take the special treatment so seriously.
-Enoch Powell
Because government has always been corrupted by corporate interests. We as a society can actually participate in our democracy and hold our elected officials accountable...that's why it hasn't worked in the past. We allow bad people and half ass programs to stay in place instead of working to provide better ones.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and then we have christian fundies like you...so what?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde