At&t Colluded With Bush Family Inside Job On 9/11

CorporateWhore

While we're tossing out exaggerated conspiracy theories today...

There seems to be a strange need for some people to have "information" that others do not have. I think it's almost a pathology. Many people on this board seem to think that if only everybody knew what they "know," we would be able to address our government more appropriately.

They take these conspiracy theories to an extreme by saying "cui bono?" for every single world event. Who benefits? Any number of events can benefit the American government if you ask this question. Anyone will be willing to say that, yes, the American government benefitted and therefore, they caused unnecessary deaths.

"For relatively rare individuals, an obsessive compulsion to believe, prove or re-tell a conspiracy theory may indicate one or more of several well-understood psychological conditions, and other hypothetical ones: paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome.[19]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#Clinical_psychology

This foolishness is a border-line psychosis. When we suspect a conspiracy, I think we would all do well to take a step back, look at the evidence, and perhaps apply a little Occam's Razor. Is this conspiracy more or less plausible than the actual story? THINK! When every legitimate engineer and scientist across the world disagrees with you, why would you continue to think that you are right? Psychosis. That's why.

Over and over and over, 9/11 Truth conspiracists are proven wrong. And yet, they continue to believe in their conspiracies because "they have information that we do not." We, supposedly, aren't ready for the truths they have to tell us.

That is a pathology, not a legitimate thought process. Healthy doubt is one thing - consistent skepticism of the world around you indicates psychosis.

A Beautiful Mind has a lot to say about this. Watch it sometime. Oh right I'm sure schizophrenia is a conspiracy too.

LikeAnOcean

Conspiracy theorists seem to keep forgetting one thing..

It's a freakin' THEORY..

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Fire, steel, laws of physics...sounds like conspiracy to me :rolleyes:

CorporateWhore

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Fire, steel, laws of physics...sounds like conspiracy to me :rolleyes:

No engineers agree with your views. They understand fire, steel, and the laws of physics far better than you.

DriftingByTheStorm

i will say that firmly believing in something but not being able to get others to agree or take action often MAKES you feel like you are going crazy.

I think one can lead to the other, and vice versa.

In otherwords, crazy people, already seperated\fragmented from reality can end up conspiracy theorists, because in their non-sequiter world it makes sense ...

and also Conspiracy Theorists can end up crazy, because at the very least, they believe so firmly in what they have "discovered" and so firmly in the importance of this discovery, that when they are met with resistance in "the masses" around them, it tends to drive them insane ... feeling mentally isolated from their fellow humans, possibly paranoid about government response, generally demoralized about the condition of their world, etc ...

you don't see how it could possibly be the other way around?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

CorporateWhore wrote:

No engineers agree with your views. They understand fire, steel, and the laws of physics far better than you.

Really? Which ones the govt employed 9/11 ones?

A little news flash for you. Fires do not cause steel caged buildings to collapse.

Show me why this has never happened before....ever...since or after 9/11 and and just one single engineer on this planet that can back up the complete opposite....since you seem to know so much about engineers now...

Have fun with that.

CorporateWhore

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

you don't see how it could possibly be the other way around?

I can perfectly understand how an individual might be ostracized for believing in something that the public opposes. Such as being a holocaust denier or what-have-you.

When the conspiracist consistently cannot explain or has many parts of his conspiracy proven false but continues to believe it, he must necessarily be irrational. Having a "hunch" does not make it "truth." Whether you don't like Bush or not, it is damn near impossible for him to get away with such a thing without ANYONE knowing.

Let's not forget that Nixon, one of the most powerful presidents in our time, was ratted out by a FBI stooge. If it's possible to rat the president out so badly, someone could easily have done it. Especially given the fact that 3,000 people died.

ledvedderman

I swear these 9/11 conspiracy threads are as annoying as the Chris Cornell threads in the "other music" forum.

No one is going to change anyones mind on here. I side on the side that there was some sort of conspiracy, but come on, it's getting a bit much anymore over here.

CorporateWhore

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Really? Which ones the govt employed 9/11 ones?

There are private engineers not associated with the government who do not agree with you. There are engineers from other countries that do not agree with you.

This has never happened before because no one has ever crashed a 747 into the World Trade Center towers before. That's a circular argument though.

ledvedderman

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Really? Which ones the govt employed 9/11 ones?

Now that sounds a bit paranoid don't you think?

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

I swear these 9/11 conspiracy threads are as annoying as the Chris Cornell threads in the "other music" forum.

No one is going to change anyones mind on here. I side on the side that there was some sort of conspiracy, but come on, it's getting a bit much anymore over here.

I'm a havin fun

LikeAnOcean

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

A little news flash for you. Fires do not cause steel caged buildings to collapse.

What about a 700 ton plane moving at 500 MPH? Does that not contribute to a collapse? From the video, that plane cut through the building like butter..

CorporateWhore

LikeAnOcean wrote:

What about a 700 ton plane moving at 500 MPH? Does that not contribute to a collapse? From the video, that plane cut through the building like butter..

Don't bother. You don't have all of the information that Roland has. Otherwise, you would understand the truth about 9/11. We should sit back in awe at Roland's great knowledge of the world!! If only we understood...

fanch75

truthfully, one conspiracy I did expect to occur when the WMD was not found was for WMD to be shipped in to be "found."

the lack of WMD in Iraq is why I don't believe the conspiracy theories. why plan all of that out and not have the WMD in place to be "found" if ultimately this was all for the ramp up of middle east conquest in the end?

jlew24asu

LikeAnOcean wrote:

What about a 700 ton plane moving at 500 MPH? Does that not contribute to a collapse? From the video, that plane cut through the building like butter..

hehehehehe

you are your plane conspiracy :rolleyes: beat it ocean

Truthmonger

Ya, it gets a little irritating. Kinda like when Dog The Bounty Hunter keeps saying "bra".

DriftingByTheStorm

jlew24asu wrote:

hehehehehe

you are your plane conspiracy :rolleyes: beat it ocean

oh no. a typo.
you MUST be wrong, now.

jlew24asu

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

oh no. a typo.
you MUST be wrong, now.

oops

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

While we're tossing out exaggerated conspiracy theories today...

There seems to be a strange need for some people to have "information" that others do not have. I think it's almost a pathology. Many people on this board seem to think that if only everybody knew what they "know," we would be able to address our government more appropriately.

They take these conspiracy theories to an extreme by saying "cui bono?" for every single world event. Who benefits? Any number of events can benefit the American government if you ask this question. Anyone will be willing to say that, yes, the American government benefitted and therefore, they caused unnecessary deaths.

"For relatively rare individuals, an obsessive compulsion to believe, prove or re-tell a conspiracy theory may indicate one or more of several well-understood psychological conditions, and other hypothetical ones: paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome.[19]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#Clinical_psychology

This foolishness is a border-line psychosis. When we suspect a conspiracy, I think we would all do well to take a step back, look at the evidence, and perhaps apply a little Occam's Razor. Is this conspiracy more or less plausible than the actual story? THINK! When every legitimate engineer and scientist across the world disagrees with you, why would you continue to think that you are right? Psychosis. That's why.

Over and over and over, 9/11 Truth conspiracists are proven wrong. And yet, they continue to believe in their conspiracies because "they have information that we do not." We, supposedly, aren't ready for the truths they have to tell us.

That is a pathology, not a legitimate thought process. Healthy doubt is one thing - consistent skepticism of the world around you indicates psychosis.

A Beautiful Mind has a lot to say about this. Watch it sometime. Oh right I'm sure schizophrenia is a conspiracy too.

Here's the deal, CorporateWhore:

According to the branch of psychology called transactional analysis, when there are imbalanced dynamics going on, and imbalances of power, there will be imbalanced outcomes. This is of paramount importance:

People with paranoia are considered extra-perceptive, meaning they are more aware than the average person. When they perceive situations that are being discounted, it leads to the pathology of their view. When they are paranoid, it is BASED ON actual happenstances where there is reason for concern, and it is by their view and perception being discounted that the distortions in their view actually flourish.

So for example, when a government is lying, obfuscating and otherwise deceiving it's people, there will be a minority of people (up to 30%) with an ability to perceive aspects of hidden truths that have not been proven. Some of these individuals will have a weak sense of self, and big opposition to their perceptions from those around them. They will succumb to illness. Some will be otherwise blocked from their natural perceptions. And another percentage entirely will accurately perceive that there is something going on and will seek answers. This last group are like the members on this board, who while sometimes obviously angry--with good reason, giving the lying, deceit, etc, that DOES go on, are obviously functional, healthy idividuals in life, in that they work and carry on logical thought processes for their dissent.

The bottom line is that this government conspiracy dynmaic is set into play by the goverments who are deceitful and who do not accept accountability and responsibility for their actual actions. It creates the dynamics wherein our perceptive peoples can sense what is going on, and that something does not add up. This dynamic of honest questioning is perpetuated when our perfectly healthy "conspiracy theorists" pursue their underlying sense of this mis-appropriated power and are discounted and maligned on all levels from the environment--friends, family, message board people, governments. Each of these individuals knows they don't know the exact truth and don't exactly have the facts sorted out, they just know things are not on the table, and do not yet add up. That is rational and perceptive in my view, which is supported by the very psychology that delves into human interactions and inter-dynamics.

I can also see the many distortions and anger that seep out from our resident conspiracy theorists. It's clear these people have their own issues. To me it's similar to the distortions and anger that seep out from those who accept fully official stories and who also have their issues. There are underlying truths on both "sides" that are what it's really about. It's unfortunate that both sides can't see each other's truths, and understand, acknowledge and address their own weak points.

angelica

Anyone who wants to be part of the environmental effects of perpetuating distortions and mental illness, just continue to malign and degrade other people's views.

Just don't be pointing the finger at the "other" guy for creating "illness".

If you are not intelligently and reasonably debating on an even playiong field, you are a distinct and interactive part of the problem. Plain and simple.

DriftingByTheStorm

angelica wrote:

Anyone who wants to be part of the environmental effects of perpetuating distortions and mental illness, just continue to malign and degrade other people's views.

Just don't be pointing the finger at the "other" guy for creating "illness".

If you are not intelligently and reasonably debating on an even playiong field, you are a distinct and interactive part of the problem. Plain and simple.

you know, sometimes i wonder "what the hell is angelica babbeling on about now?"

but if i take the time to read it, you usually make damn good sense.

thanks for that above post.
it lays things pretty clear.