If you understand how markets work you should be able to envision a few more logical conclusions as to what might really happen.
What "more logical conclusions" are you suggesting?
I can think of NO mechanism through which the market has ver been capable of functioning as a barrier for resource depletion and price spikes!
Oil is running out, the markets will cause prices to go up up and away ...
Either some intervention by government or populist force is required to redirect the inertia of unregulated free market operation.
The only logical conclusion i see is the increasing dysfunction of the oil market (Read high prices, oil shortages, and consumer revolts) followed by free market collapse as the people of the world (probably after most of the oil is gone or too expensive to extract) revolt against the powers that be whom are sucking them dry and pumping the planet dry as well.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
What "more logical conclusions" are you suggesting?
I can think of NO mechanism through which the market has ver been capable of functioning as a barrier for resource depletion and price spikes!
Oil is running out, the markets will cause prices to go up up and away ...
Either some intervention by government or populist force is required to redirect the inertia of unregulated free market operation.
The only logical conclusion i see is the increasing dysfunction of the oil market (Read high prices, oil shortages, and consumer revolts) followed by free market collapse as the people of the world (probably after most of the oil is gone or too expensive to extract) revolt against the powers that be whom are sucking them dry and pumping the planet dry as well.
You seem to think that only the oil companies are benefiting from oil. That alone tells me you don't understand how a market works. People wouldn't buy oil if they weren't benefiting too. At some point the benefit stops for one side and there is no transaction.
And that is how a market acts a "barrier for resource depletion". When the price gets high enough, and it will, people will stop buying the product. There is no barrier for prices because if there were, there would be no product brought to the market.
The prices are what will drive innovation and push people towards alternatives. Not until prices go above what most people are willing to pay will we see real alternatives.
In the meantime, high prices are what keep shortages from happening. If lower prices are what you really want, instead of alternative energy, then you should hope the government reduces domestic drilling and refinery regulations so we can have a larger domestic supply.
The oil man making 100 dollars per gallon is not going to happen. I don't drive a car and don't buy gas, but I'm guessing I would pay up to 10 bucks per gallon if I had a car. What is your price?
The oil companies aren't stupid, and they have a lot of money. They will most likely be the same people selling you nuclear batteries or whatever they have up their sleeve for when gas prices go too high.
I don't mean to sound like a market ideologist, but you have to understand that their will be alternatives, and that the situation you describe just won't happen. And I understand that the oil companies will be riding this gravy train until we reach the breaking point or someone comes up with something else big in the pursuit of profit.
A fly farted in the middle east...quick...raise the price of oil!
kinda ridiculous and transparent...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What "more logical conclusions" are you suggesting?
I can think of NO mechanism through which the market has ver been capable of functioning as a barrier for resource depletion and price spikes!
Oil is running out, the markets will cause prices to go up up and away ...
Either some intervention by government or populist force is required to redirect the inertia of unregulated free market operation.
The only logical conclusion i see is the increasing dysfunction of the oil market (Read high prices, oil shortages, and consumer revolts) followed by free market collapse as the people of the world (probably after most of the oil is gone or too expensive to extract) revolt against the powers that be whom are sucking them dry and pumping the planet dry as well.
here's an example. i'm the 3rd biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i sell at about $15.00 per POUND under the market price because i sell enough to still make a profit. if my sales drop; i'll have to raise the price to keep my profit margin where it is.
now; people are using less oil. plastic bags are being outlawed and deposit on plastic bottles is happening accross the us. so oil use is down and prices need to be raised to keep the profit margin; no matter how high they are; at a constant.
the time is comming where the consumer won't have access to oil. that's why people like me are saying learn to do without it now so when the well runs dry; it has no effect on you.
here's an example. i'm the 3rd biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i sell at about $15.00 per POUND under the market price because i sell enough to still make a profit. if my sales drop; i'll have to raise the price to keep my profit margin where it is.
now; people are using less oil. plastic bags are being outlawed and deposit on plastic bottles is happening accross the us. so oil use is down and prices need to be raised to keep the profit margin; no matter how high they are; at a constant.
the time is comming where the consumer won't have access to oil. that's why people like me are saying learn to do without it now so when the well runs dry; it has no effect on you.
well i agree with you on the last bit -- about learning to live without it -- but not the top portion ... and sadly i also fail to see how most of or even a small portion of your typical american (probably my sad self included) are going to be able to adjust to no-oil quickly ... millions will die if the food system goes (not too many handy or willing gardners these days ... particularly when we are talking above the grave nature of temperate weather subsistence farming)
... i think we disagree as to the cause of rising oil prices though:
I just don't see how (and sorry, and blessings to Ron Paul & Von Mises on this) Free Market Economics is going to solve that problem expediently or with best consequence.
Things are going to be brutaly unbearable for humanity in the next 20 years. That seems patheticaly probable at this point.
I could write up a bunch of solutions but the truth is we are turning too slow towards the answers (and there are an endless number of "answers" we need to follow) for it to matter.
I'm glad its all over the news -- and it is all over the news -- but the sytem is going to respond too slowly for there to be any hope. Think Katrina response but on an epic saga of a scale unimagineable (all though i have a pretty good idea) ...
... i heard someone on mainstream news (msnbc, on one of their exchange floor programs, had a peak oil expert on to talk about oil prices) the other day say that "the really scary part is actually not the prices, but the fact that some countries are already experiencing oil brown outs, where immediate supply isnt meeting demand. We are on the brink here in the US as well, and that is really going to be a huge drag on the economy when we are having periods where we literally can't get enough oil into the pipes fast enough to cover demand." [paraphrased best i can remember] ...
uh.
scary stuff.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
well i agree with you on the last bit -- about learning to live without it -- but not the top portion ... and sadly i also fail to see how most of or even a small portion of your typical american (probably my sad self included) are going to be able to adjust to no-oil quickly ... millions will die if the food system goes (not too many handy or willing gardners these days ... particularly when we are talking above the grave nature of temperate weather subsistence farming)
... i think we disagree as to the cause of rising oil prices though:
I just don't see how (and sorry, and blessings to Ron Paul & Von Mises on this) Free Market Economics is going to solve that problem expediently or with best consequence.
Things are going to be brutaly unbearable for humanity in the next 20 years. That seems patheticaly probable at this point.
I could write up a bunch of solutions but the truth is we are turning too slow towards the answers (and there are an endless number of "answers" we need to follow) for it to matter.
I'm glad its all over the news -- and it is all over the news -- but the sytem is going to respond too slowly for there to be any hope. Think Katrina response but on an epic saga of a scale unimagineable (all though i have a pretty good idea) ...
... i heard someone on mainstream news (msnbc, on one of their exchange floor programs, had a peak oil expert on to talk about oil prices) the other day say that "the really scary part is actually not the prices, but the fact that some countries are already experiencing oil brown outs, where immediate supply isnt meeting demand. We are on the brink here in the US as well, and that is really going to be a huge drag on the economy when we are having periods where we literally can't get enough oil into the pipes fast enough to cover demand." [paraphrased best i can remember] ...
uh.
scary stuff.
well love; i see 2/3 of the earths population dying in the next 5 years. i'm 100% solar and self sufficient and ready for the things most people don't know are to come. me buffalo and i are safely tucked away in the mountains with plenty of clean water and a way to grow food when the skys are raining volcanic dust. money will be worthless so have plenty of gold around.
i think we agree on a lot more than you give me credit for.
peace
well love; i see 2/3 of the earths population dying in the next 5 years. i'm 100% solar and self sufficient and ready for the things most people don't know are to come. me buffalo and i are safely tucked away in the mountains with plenty of clean water and a way to grow food when the skys are raining volcanic dust. money will be worthless so have plenty of gold around.
i think we agree on a lot more than you give me credit for.
peace
People are going to read that and think you're one of those "sky is falling" doomsayers. Odds are, and I think you know this, the earth's population will be the same as what it is now (give or take) 5 years hence.
My question to you is, is it a good psychological strategy to assume the worst for tomorrow in order to stay focused on what is best in terms of the environment today?
People are going to read that and think you're one of those "sky is falling" doomsayers. Odds are, and I think you know this, the earth's population will be the same as what it is now (give or take) 5 years hence.
My question to you is, is it a good psychological strategy to assume the worst for tomorrow in order to stay focused on what is best in terms of the environment today?
sounds like onesolong is actually doing pretty good.
maybe the worldview is a bit warped, but is it a better strategy to deny the truth and pretend like its a fairy tale world?
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
sounds like onesolong is actually doing pretty good.
maybe the worldview is a bit warped, but is it a better strategy to deny the truth and pretend like its a fairy tale world?
:(
I guess the point of asking him that is not relative to the "fairy tale world" option, as it is more a question of the strategy itself, in terms of psychology. Is there a sort of psychological fallout in that strategy?
I guess the point of asking him that is not relative to the "fairy tale world" option, as it is more a question of the strategy itself, in terms of psychology. Is there a sort of psychological fallout in that strategy?
Sounds like you are really asking, "Can facing perceived reality be hard?"
Uh yeah.
That's the point.
Reality causes neurosis on a daily basis in millions.
In fact, it's so hard to face that millions more have their own neurosis as a result of subconsciously AVOIDING reality.
I think the best you can hope for, from a personal sanity perspective, is to recognize the truth, do your damnedest ot put yourself in a position where the physical fallout from reality (in this case, starvation from lack of oil) will be least likely to hit you (sound like onesolong has), and then try to make the best of the situation mentaly ...
i guess.
yeah my mind recognizes doom and gloom all around,
but it's not my fault ... like i said, if you've been reading books or watching some of the movies that have been around for 5 to 30 years, its not hard to find. And these days its all over the news as well. Makes it kind of hard to avoid, unless you're one of those whose neurosis is hiding their head in the sand.
Instead of sticking your head in it, draw a line in it .... don't budge, protect #1, get your ducks in a row, and then try to balance impending doom with personal sanity ... the best way you can.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
People are going to read that and think you're one of those "sky is falling" doomsayers. Odds are, and I think you know this, the earth's population will be the same as what it is now (give or take) 5 years hence.
My question to you is, is it a good psychological strategy to assume the worst for tomorrow in order to stay focused on what is best in terms of the environment today?
people can and do think that but i know something they don't know. and i also know why they don't know. the government isn't saying anything because of the panic it would cause. not just the us either. kyoto wasn't about greenhouse gasses because they let the biggest offenders slide through. nobody said: let us help you to china. if that summit was really about greenhouse gasses; it would have included helping the biggest offenders clean up their emmissions.
as to your question; my aunt and uncle have been government scientists for many years. we are past the point of no return. if you say man had nothing to do with it; i won't argue the point because it doesn't matter. at this point i say look at the earth the last time we didn't have ice cover and what happened. whether you call it a cycle of earths; or that it's mans fault; or even if you blame it on cow farts. what you need to do is look back in earths history and compare how the earth reacted when it lost it's ice cover. it will act the same again.
we then look at katrina and remove the hurricane. sea water washed inland and mixed with gas; oil; sewage; and thousands of gallons of pesticides and herbicides. new orleans was a toxic waste dump. those exposed will be feeling the effects in the coming years. lukemia should be the biggest killer.
the evidence is in front of your eyes and easily verifiable.
so; am i a doomsayer or just someone informed more than others? only time will tell. i tell people to go ask those already effected by global warming. millions of people on the indian islands are already preparing to evacuate as are the islands off new guinea. lakes in africa are drying up. in fact; what used to be the largest lake in the world is now a mud puddle. those mud puddles are releasing CO2 and because the moisture attached to the CO2 is keeping it close to the ground; entire villages are sufficating. towns in alaska have already been evacuated and houses are falling into the ocean from erosion. but hey; don't believe your lying eyes; trust the government.
Sounds like you are really asking, "Can facing perceived reality be hard?"
Uh yeah.
That's the point.
Reality causes neurosis on a daily basis in millions.
In fact, it's so hard to face that millions more have their own neurosis as a result of subconsciously AVOIDING reality.
I think the best you can hope for, from a personal sanity perspective, is to recognize the truth, do your damnedest ot put yourself in a position where the physical fallout from reality (in this case, starvation from lack of oil) will be least likely to hit you (sound like onesolong has), and then try to make the best of the situation mentaly ...
i guess.
yeah my mind recognizes doom and gloom all around,
but it's not my fault ... like i said, if you've been reading books or watching some of the movies that have been around for 5 to 30 years, its not hard to find. And these days its all over the news as well. Makes it kind of hard to avoid, unless you're one of those whose neurosis is hiding their head in the sand.
Instead of sticking your head in it, draw a line in it .... don't budge, protect #1, get your ducks in a row, and then try to balance impending doom with personal sanity ... the best way you can.
i forgot a point to bring up with gue and since you mentioned oil; i'll bring it up here. has anyone noticed that refineries are built close to ports for easy offloading of crude oil from tankers? so it makes sense that when people will have to be evacuating; and 2/3 of the earths population lives near water; those refineries will be flooded so people will be evacuating on foot. there won't be trucks bringing groceries to stores either. this is why i predict such a high death toll.
it may sound like i'm talking out my arse but i can explain everything i say and give good reason for it.
It's not just about cars - as some of you have touched on. Petroleum products are everywhere.
Plastic anything. Look around. Think about how much plastic you use everyday. It's crazy. Whenever I have to go to the doctor I hope we come up with some good alternatives soon.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
i forgot a point to bring up with gue and since you mentioned oil; i'll bring it up here. has anyone noticed that refineries are built close to ports for easy offloading of crude oil from tankers? so it makes sense that when people will have to be evacuating; and 2/3 of the earths population lives near water; those refineries will be flooded so people will be evacuating on foot. there won't be trucks bringing groceries to stores either. this is why i predict such a high death toll.
it may sound like i'm talking out my arse but i can explain everything i say and give good reason for it.
You are correct.
I also get a kick out of the people on here who are convinced that we can NOT be runing out of oil, because, by gosh, the oil companies are building MORE refineries.
"how can we be runing out of oil if we are building more refineries, what sense does that make?" they ask ...
well, the sad truth is, those refineries are to compensate for the lowered quality of oil we will be pulling out of the earth ... the deep muck oil ... the shit that floats below the good shit ... the nasty stuff ... the dirty stuff ...
... no, the new refineries aren't because we will be seeing increased oil supply ... it is because as peak oil runs its course, and only the bottom half of our supply pool is left, the supply becomes less desireable, less refinable ...
... current refineries simply can NOT do the job and new more powerful refineries will be required to produce useable fuel.
:(
And i think you make a great point that there are plenty of reasons why we are fucked. Lack of oil\food, environmental destruction, and overpopulation are probably the three biggies, but each of those encompasses so many other "little" facets that are disturbing and sobering in their own right!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
but hey; don't believe your lying eyes; trust the government.
Though I mostly agree with you, in the sense that we are in for major changes in the next few years, this is an argument I never understood. If the end is nigh, what's the point in keeping this secret? Why would the government try and lie to us ? :
to stop widespread panick - what for?
to keep us consuming - again what for?
If the world as we know it ends soon, nobody can profit from this status quo the government is supposedely trying to pull off. So why should the government lie to you?
Though I mostly agree with you, in the sense that we are in for major changes in the next few years, this is an argument I never understood. If the end is nigh, what's the point in keeping this secret? Why would the government try and lie to us ? :
to stop widespread panick - what for?
to keep us consuming - again what for?
If the world as we know it ends soon, nobody can profit from this status quo the government is supposedely trying to pull off. So why should the government lie to you?
My guess would be money.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
A fly farted in the middle east...quick...raise the price of oil!
kinda ridiculous and transparent...
Roland, I am glad to see there is something you and I agree on.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
That doesnt answer my question, if the end is that soon, what's the use of money?
I ask the same question, but to me in the least it all comes down to greed pure and simple, and i will stick with it till something better comes along to change my opinion.
I certainly don't buy ignorance.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
sounds like onesolong is actually doing pretty good.
maybe the worldview is a bit warped, but is it a better strategy to deny the truth and pretend like its a fairy tale world?
:(
I guess it all depends on yor goal in life. Is it to survive longer even if that means you are possibly very unhappy. Or is it to live a happier but possibly shorter life.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The poll suggests the public are more ready than politicians
Most people are ready to make personal sacrifices to address climate change, according to a BBC poll of 22,000 people in 21 countries.
*******************
what it goes to show is that gov'ts not act in the interests of large corporations instead of the people ... and the main reason why we have made nominal progress in the last decade ...
Comments
What "more logical conclusions" are you suggesting?
I can think of NO mechanism through which the market has ver been capable of functioning as a barrier for resource depletion and price spikes!
Oil is running out, the markets will cause prices to go up up and away ...
Either some intervention by government or populist force is required to redirect the inertia of unregulated free market operation.
The only logical conclusion i see is the increasing dysfunction of the oil market (Read high prices, oil shortages, and consumer revolts) followed by free market collapse as the people of the world (probably after most of the oil is gone or too expensive to extract) revolt against the powers that be whom are sucking them dry and pumping the planet dry as well.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You seem to think that only the oil companies are benefiting from oil. That alone tells me you don't understand how a market works. People wouldn't buy oil if they weren't benefiting too. At some point the benefit stops for one side and there is no transaction.
And that is how a market acts a "barrier for resource depletion". When the price gets high enough, and it will, people will stop buying the product. There is no barrier for prices because if there were, there would be no product brought to the market.
The prices are what will drive innovation and push people towards alternatives. Not until prices go above what most people are willing to pay will we see real alternatives.
In the meantime, high prices are what keep shortages from happening. If lower prices are what you really want, instead of alternative energy, then you should hope the government reduces domestic drilling and refinery regulations so we can have a larger domestic supply.
The oil man making 100 dollars per gallon is not going to happen. I don't drive a car and don't buy gas, but I'm guessing I would pay up to 10 bucks per gallon if I had a car. What is your price?
The oil companies aren't stupid, and they have a lot of money. They will most likely be the same people selling you nuclear batteries or whatever they have up their sleeve for when gas prices go too high.
I don't mean to sound like a market ideologist, but you have to understand that their will be alternatives, and that the situation you describe just won't happen. And I understand that the oil companies will be riding this gravy train until we reach the breaking point or someone comes up with something else big in the pursuit of profit.
kinda ridiculous and transparent...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
here's an example. i'm the 3rd biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i sell at about $15.00 per POUND under the market price because i sell enough to still make a profit. if my sales drop; i'll have to raise the price to keep my profit margin where it is.
now; people are using less oil. plastic bags are being outlawed and deposit on plastic bottles is happening accross the us. so oil use is down and prices need to be raised to keep the profit margin; no matter how high they are; at a constant.
the time is comming where the consumer won't have access to oil. that's why people like me are saying learn to do without it now so when the well runs dry; it has no effect on you.
well i agree with you on the last bit -- about learning to live without it -- but not the top portion ... and sadly i also fail to see how most of or even a small portion of your typical american (probably my sad self included) are going to be able to adjust to no-oil quickly ... millions will die if the food system goes (not too many handy or willing gardners these days ... particularly when we are talking above the grave nature of temperate weather subsistence farming)
... i think we disagree as to the cause of rising oil prices though:
"Global Oil Production Peaked Last Year" says report
World oil production has already peaked and will fall by half as soon as 2030, according to a report which also warns that extreme shortages of fossil fuels will lead to wars and social breakdown.
Exciting stuff, huh?
I just don't see how (and sorry, and blessings to Ron Paul & Von Mises on this) Free Market Economics is going to solve that problem expediently or with best consequence.
Things are going to be brutaly unbearable for humanity in the next 20 years. That seems patheticaly probable at this point.
I could write up a bunch of solutions but the truth is we are turning too slow towards the answers (and there are an endless number of "answers" we need to follow) for it to matter.
I'm glad its all over the news -- and it is all over the news -- but the sytem is going to respond too slowly for there to be any hope. Think Katrina response but on an epic saga of a scale unimagineable (all though i have a pretty good idea) ...
... i heard someone on mainstream news (msnbc, on one of their exchange floor programs, had a peak oil expert on to talk about oil prices) the other day say that "the really scary part is actually not the prices, but the fact that some countries are already experiencing oil brown outs, where immediate supply isnt meeting demand. We are on the brink here in the US as well, and that is really going to be a huge drag on the economy when we are having periods where we literally can't get enough oil into the pipes fast enough to cover demand." [paraphrased best i can remember] ...
uh.
scary stuff.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
well love; i see 2/3 of the earths population dying in the next 5 years. i'm 100% solar and self sufficient and ready for the things most people don't know are to come. me buffalo and i are safely tucked away in the mountains with plenty of clean water and a way to grow food when the skys are raining volcanic dust. money will be worthless so have plenty of gold around.
i think we agree on a lot more than you give me credit for.
peace
People are going to read that and think you're one of those "sky is falling" doomsayers. Odds are, and I think you know this, the earth's population will be the same as what it is now (give or take) 5 years hence.
My question to you is, is it a good psychological strategy to assume the worst for tomorrow in order to stay focused on what is best in terms of the environment today?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
sounds like onesolong is actually doing pretty good.
maybe the worldview is a bit warped, but is it a better strategy to deny the truth and pretend like its a fairy tale world?
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I guess the point of asking him that is not relative to the "fairy tale world" option, as it is more a question of the strategy itself, in terms of psychology. Is there a sort of psychological fallout in that strategy?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Sounds like you are really asking, "Can facing perceived reality be hard?"
Uh yeah.
That's the point.
Reality causes neurosis on a daily basis in millions.
In fact, it's so hard to face that millions more have their own neurosis as a result of subconsciously AVOIDING reality.
I think the best you can hope for, from a personal sanity perspective, is to recognize the truth, do your damnedest ot put yourself in a position where the physical fallout from reality (in this case, starvation from lack of oil) will be least likely to hit you (sound like onesolong has), and then try to make the best of the situation mentaly ...
i guess.
yeah my mind recognizes doom and gloom all around,
but it's not my fault ... like i said, if you've been reading books or watching some of the movies that have been around for 5 to 30 years, its not hard to find. And these days its all over the news as well. Makes it kind of hard to avoid, unless you're one of those whose neurosis is hiding their head in the sand.
Instead of sticking your head in it, draw a line in it .... don't budge, protect #1, get your ducks in a row, and then try to balance impending doom with personal sanity ... the best way you can.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
people can and do think that but i know something they don't know. and i also know why they don't know. the government isn't saying anything because of the panic it would cause. not just the us either. kyoto wasn't about greenhouse gasses because they let the biggest offenders slide through. nobody said: let us help you to china. if that summit was really about greenhouse gasses; it would have included helping the biggest offenders clean up their emmissions.
as to your question; my aunt and uncle have been government scientists for many years. we are past the point of no return. if you say man had nothing to do with it; i won't argue the point because it doesn't matter. at this point i say look at the earth the last time we didn't have ice cover and what happened. whether you call it a cycle of earths; or that it's mans fault; or even if you blame it on cow farts. what you need to do is look back in earths history and compare how the earth reacted when it lost it's ice cover. it will act the same again.
we then look at katrina and remove the hurricane. sea water washed inland and mixed with gas; oil; sewage; and thousands of gallons of pesticides and herbicides. new orleans was a toxic waste dump. those exposed will be feeling the effects in the coming years. lukemia should be the biggest killer.
the evidence is in front of your eyes and easily verifiable.
so; am i a doomsayer or just someone informed more than others? only time will tell. i tell people to go ask those already effected by global warming. millions of people on the indian islands are already preparing to evacuate as are the islands off new guinea. lakes in africa are drying up. in fact; what used to be the largest lake in the world is now a mud puddle. those mud puddles are releasing CO2 and because the moisture attached to the CO2 is keeping it close to the ground; entire villages are sufficating. towns in alaska have already been evacuated and houses are falling into the ocean from erosion. but hey; don't believe your lying eyes; trust the government.
i forgot a point to bring up with gue and since you mentioned oil; i'll bring it up here. has anyone noticed that refineries are built close to ports for easy offloading of crude oil from tankers? so it makes sense that when people will have to be evacuating; and 2/3 of the earths population lives near water; those refineries will be flooded so people will be evacuating on foot. there won't be trucks bringing groceries to stores either. this is why i predict such a high death toll.
it may sound like i'm talking out my arse but i can explain everything i say and give good reason for it.
Plastic anything. Look around. Think about how much plastic you use everyday. It's crazy. Whenever I have to go to the doctor I hope we come up with some good alternatives soon.
Here's a little story written to point out how oil is everywhere:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Archives2007/LongFingers.html
It gets good around the eighth paragraph
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"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
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Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
You are correct.
I also get a kick out of the people on here who are convinced that we can NOT be runing out of oil, because, by gosh, the oil companies are building MORE refineries.
"how can we be runing out of oil if we are building more refineries, what sense does that make?" they ask ...
well, the sad truth is, those refineries are to compensate for the lowered quality of oil we will be pulling out of the earth ... the deep muck oil ... the shit that floats below the good shit ... the nasty stuff ... the dirty stuff ...
... no, the new refineries aren't because we will be seeing increased oil supply ... it is because as peak oil runs its course, and only the bottom half of our supply pool is left, the supply becomes less desireable, less refinable ...
... current refineries simply can NOT do the job and new more powerful refineries will be required to produce useable fuel.
:(
And i think you make a great point that there are plenty of reasons why we are fucked. Lack of oil\food, environmental destruction, and overpopulation are probably the three biggies, but each of those encompasses so many other "little" facets that are disturbing and sobering in their own right!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Though I mostly agree with you, in the sense that we are in for major changes in the next few years, this is an argument I never understood. If the end is nigh, what's the point in keeping this secret? Why would the government try and lie to us ? :
to stop widespread panick - what for?
to keep us consuming - again what for?
If the world as we know it ends soon, nobody can profit from this status quo the government is supposedely trying to pull off. So why should the government lie to you?
My guess would be money.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Roland, I am glad to see there is something you and I agree on.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
I ask the same question, but to me in the least it all comes down to greed pure and simple, and i will stick with it till something better comes along to change my opinion.
I certainly don't buy ignorance.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Most ready for 'green sacrifices'
The poll suggests the public are more ready than politicians
Most people are ready to make personal sacrifices to address climate change, according to a BBC poll of 22,000 people in 21 countries.
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what it goes to show is that gov'ts not act in the interests of large corporations instead of the people ... and the main reason why we have made nominal progress in the last decade ...
people can change and are willing to change ...