Anger is the default emotion ...........

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

reading this thread has made me so angry that i just punched a granny in the neck...

well at least i know it wasnt my granny.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

yes this a valid statement. it is possibly to become fearful due to suffering. and that fear can lead to anger. and if you become angry enough you can turn hateful. hateful of yourself and those around you. those who try to patronise you and placate you and also those that dismiss you.

Well, of course I'm more than pleased that you get it cate.

I think anger does not necessarily lead to violence, although the two can be intertwined. And also hatred is not always the outcome from either fear or anger.
In my opinion, anger and fear are both within the normal range of human emotion and therefore a part of who we are, each and everyone of us, and should be acknowledged, considered, embraced and understood where we are able.

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Well, of course I'm more than pleased that you get it cate.

well of course i get it, anger has become my lover.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

well at least i know it wasnt my granny.

Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff the bus,
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff the bus,
Ye cannae shove yer grannie
For she's yer mammie's mammie,
Ye canna shove yer grannie aff the bus.

Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny
'Cos she's yer Faither's Mammy
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.

Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie affa bus.
Uncle Wullie's like yer Faither
A harum-scarum blether,
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.

Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Ye can shove Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Auntie Meg's yer Faither's sister,
She's naethin' but a twister,
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.

But ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny,
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff the bus,
Oh ye cannae shove yer grannie aff the bus,
Ye cannae shove yer grannie
For she's yer mammie's mammie,
Ye canna shove yer grannie aff the bus.

Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer ither Granny
'Cos she's yer Faither's Mammy
Ye can shove yer ither Granny aff a bus.

Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie affa bus.
Uncle Wullie's like yer Faither
A harum-scarum blether,
Ye can shove yer Uncle Wullie aff a bus.

Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Ye can shove Auntie Maggie aff a bus.
Auntie Meg's yer Faither's sister,
She's naethin' but a twister,
Ye can shove yer Auntie Maggie aff a bus.

But ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.
O ye canna shove yer Granny,
'Cos she's yer Mammy's Mammy,
O ye canna shove yer Granny aff a bus.

you crazy scotsman.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

you crazy scotsman.

you horny aussie mentalcase

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

you horny aussie mentalcase

who said i was horny dunk?

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

who said i was horny dunk?

i did.. cant you read?

all women are horny... except nuns... and grannies with recently punched necks

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

i did.. cant you read?

all women are horny... except nuns... and grannies with recently punched necks

yes i can read.

and are you sure about the nuns?

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

well of course i get it, anger has become my lover.

Well I don't play with rageaholics anymore. But angry is something I more than understand.

lucylespian

Fear does lead to anger, it's it's twin.

Hatred is the twin opposite emotion of love, so easy to see that when coples break up. Love turns to hatred, fear tuns to anger, pride turns to bitterness when shit goes wrong.

and may I be the fist to officially say.........



WELCOME BACK JEANIE, you bad bad girl !!!!!

Naughty, smack you on the bottom !! ( that's not a spank bTW LOL )

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Fear does lead to anger, it's it's twin.

Hatred is the twin opposite emotion of love, so easy to see that when coples break up. Love turns to hatred, fear tuns to anger, pride turns to bitterness when shit goes wrong.

and may I be the fist to officially say.........



WELCOME BACK JEANIE, you bad bad girl !!!!!

Naughty, smack you on the bottom !! ( that's not a spank bTW LOL )

Thanks luce. I've been about. Just mostly speechless!

Wondering aloud about anger though, isn't anger mostly hormone driven?
You know all that fight/flight stuff? What's it called cortizol? (?) Or is that just the stuff that comes along after?

lucylespian

Jeanie wrote:

Thanks luce. I've been about. Just mostly speechless!

Wondering aloud about anger though, isn't anger mostly hormone driven?
You know all that fight/flight stuff? What's it called cortizol? (?) Or is that just the stuff that comes along after?

Probably not cortisol, more a combination of adrenalin and testosterone.

Mostly adrenaline , I think. It can be hard to tell the difference between fear and anger sometimes. They are both threat responses and adrenalin is the main driver there.

I was thinknig about this again as well and remembering that when we suppress negative emotions a lot, we also start to suppress positive emotions as well.

I went through a patch last year where I had one thing after another I was not allowed to "get angry" about, and I started to feel that I was getting so practiced at suppressing that emption, that I was not really giving a shit about anything much at all, which was not a nice feeling. After this week, I'm feeling the same again a bit.

I guess there is a balance point, and I can usuallyu find it, but sometimes..............................

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Probably not cortisol, more a combination of adrenalin and testosterone.

Mostly adrenaline , I think. It can be hard to tell the difference between fear and anger sometimes. They are both threat responses and adrenalin is the main driver there.

but surely anger isnt always in response to a threat.

Ahnimus

lucylespian wrote:

Probably not cortisol, more a combination of adrenalin and testosterone.

Mostly adrenaline , I think. It can be hard to tell the difference between fear and anger sometimes. They are both threat responses and adrenalin is the main driver there.

I was thinknig about this again as well and remembering that when we suppress negative emotions a lot, we also start to suppress positive emotions as well.

I went through a patch last year where I had one thing after another I was not allowed to "get angry" about, and I started to feel that I was getting so practiced at suppressing that emption, that I was not really giving a shit about anything much at all, which was not a nice feeling. After this week, I'm feeling the same again a bit.

I guess there is a balance point, and I can usuallyu find it, but sometimes..............................

I thought Cortisol and Norepinephrine went hand-in-hand, and Cortisol damage was the cause of PTSD.

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

but surely anger isnt always in response to a threat.

Maybe not an immediate threat, but think, deeper pervasive anger is often about things that threaten our safety or family etc over a longer period of time.
I mentioned grief above, and grief always accompanies loss.
Much anger that people feel is derived from unresolved grief.
Loss of safety, loss of health, loss of wealth, loss of father (which in a broader sense can include a huge range of items of social capital, which i could bore you with for hours), loss of mother (the root cause of battering relationships at some point), loss of opportunity etc all cause grief, which is often blocked at eh anger stage.
The less practised someone is at moving beyond anger toward grief resolution, the more likely they are to just get angry.
It's not very useful to talk about an emotion at teh physiological level of hormones, other than to remember that men and teenagers have way more testosterone, and anger is definitely related to that). It's a survival thing !!

For ahnimus, cortisol and adrenaline are both involved in stress response, but they do totally different things, and have totally different gain rates.

My humble opinion of PTSD is that it is a disorder of forgetting, largely driven by our modern culture of blame and retribution and supported by a legal system that punishes recovery and rewards persistence of symptoms.
Counselling, if it involves repeatedly exploring the event, re-inforces teh memory and further retards healing and recovery.
Recovery from PTSD depends on trivialising the event until it becomes one thing that happened, not the only thing that happened. Peeps are reluctant to do that.

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Maybe not an immediate threat, but think, deeper pervasive anger is often about things that threaten our safety or family etc over a longer period of time.
I mentioned grief above, and grief always accompanies loss.
Much anger that people feel is derived from unresolved grief.
Loss of safety, loss of health, loss of wealth, loss of father (which in a broader sense can include a huge range of items of social capital, which i could bore you with for hours), loss of mother (the root cause of battering relationships at some point), loss of opportunity etc all cause grief, which is often blocked at eh anger stage.
The less practised someone is at moving beyond anger toward grief resolution, the more likely they are to just get angry.
It's not very useful to talk about an emotion at teh physiological level of hormones, other than to remember that men and teenagers have way more testosterone, and anger is definitely related to that). It's a survival thing !!

so i cant just be going mental? my anger cant be caused by some chemical imbalance?

Ahnimus

lucylespian wrote:

For ahnimus, cortisol and adrenaline are both involved in stress response, but they do totally different things, and have totally different gain rates.

My humble opinion of PTSD is that it is a disorder of forgetting, largely driven by our modern culture of blame and retribution and supported by a legal system that punishes recovery and rewards persistence of symptoms.
Counselling, if it involves repeatedly exploring the event, re-inforces teh memory and further retards healing and recovery.
Recovery from PTSD depends on trivialising the event until it becomes one thing that happened, not the only thing that happened. Peeps are reluctant to do that.

That is an interesting opinion, one that I would be inclined to side with. Does cortisol cause damage to the brain in the absence of norepinephrine?

lucylespian

Ahnimus wrote:

That is an interesting opinion, one that I would be inclined to side with. Does cortisol cause damage to the brain in the absence of norepinephrine?

That's too general a question.

A hormone like cortisol can't really cause "damage". What does happen is changes in receptor populations and down or up regulation of receptor senstivity. It's a commonly taught mistake that hormones are "messengers". The message is in the receptor, not the hormone.

These changes are caused by things like depression, not the pther way around. With a few sprcific exceptions, "changes in brain chemistry" are a result of depression etc, not a cause.

ie, all a hormone does is activate a receptor, it's what teh receptor is connected to that determines the response.

Last time I looked, which was some years ago, there had been some 150 neuropeptides described within synaptic clefts which modulate neurotransmitter activity. I doubt even God knows how many there are now, since he has been busy making stars in the Cone Nebula.

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Probably not cortisol, more a combination of adrenalin and testosterone.

Mostly adrenaline , I think. It can be hard to tell the difference between fear and anger sometimes. They are both threat responses and adrenalin is the main driver there.

I was thinknig about this again as well and remembering that when we suppress negative emotions a lot, we also start to suppress positive emotions as well.

I went through a patch last year where I had one thing after another I was not allowed to "get angry" about, and I started to feel that I was getting so practiced at suppressing that emption, that I was not really giving a shit about anything much at all, which was not a nice feeling. After this week, I'm feeling the same again a bit.

I guess there is a balance point, and I can usuallyu find it, but sometimes..............................

Yeah, it's funny but I can feel the difference between fear or anger sometimes. In terms of the response from my body.

Suppressed anger is a real downward spiral to depression so I can see how finding your "happy face" is so hard when that starts.

Not giving a shit is a really bad place to be luce. Hope your able to find some happy stuff soon.