Bush and Iraq

macgyver06
macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
did he actually say .. A self-Governing Iraq is a 'noble goal'

THEY WERE SELF GOVERNED BEFORE BUSH ORDERED THE REMOVAL OF THEIR LEADERS!

this is not a debate.

IRAQ WAS SOVERIGN...if you dont count the food for oil program WHICH THEY ABIDED BY....
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Comments

  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    did he actually say .. A self-Governing Iraq is a 'noble goal'

    THEY WERE SELF GOVERNED BEFORE BUSH ORDERED THE REMOVAL OF THEIR LEADERS!

    this is not a debate.

    IRAQ WAS SOVERIGN...if you dont count the food for oil program WHICH THEY ABIDED BY....

    Not that I'm defending the president, but Iraq was not self-governing. Saddam was a dictator and the people had no say in who they wanted to run the country.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Umm...not that I enjoy agreeing with George Bush, but a self-governing Iraq is a noble goal. And to pretend that Iraq, under the rule of a vicious dictator kept in power by fear and coersion, was "self-governing"....not really seeing where you're coming from there.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    they were soverign!

    and for the record.. Iraq had elections to... anyone can say hey...they werent fair...but the truth is people were free and i do know for a fact that they did vote for the invasion of kuwait and the war with iran before that.


    but i think your missing the statement.

    THEY WERE SELF-GOVERNED BEFORE!

    they were a country, regardless of your opinions of saddam.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    and you mention fear...please

    every country has this
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    and you mention fear...please

    every country has this

    In the context of Iraq, and the context of brutal dictators paranoid to a point of extreme violence, your very post proves you wrong.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Umm...not that I enjoy agreeing with George Bush, but a self-governing Iraq is a noble goal. And to pretend that Iraq, under the rule of a vicious dictator kept in power by fear and coersion, was "self-governing"....not really seeing where you're coming from there.


    oh and compared to other so called ''dictators'' he's not that vicious...and for the record Saddam never held prison camps.... our presidents have!
  • darkcrow
    darkcrow Posts: 1,102
    macgyver06 wrote:
    and you mention fear...please

    every country has this

    so true. it is the tool of every political party. "if you dont vote for us something bad will happen"

    one that comes to mind was during the midterms and the republicans had that one with the ticking and osama.

    in my country our politicians love to use illegal immigrants to scare us.
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  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    they were soverign!

    and for the record.. Iraq had elections to... anyone can say hey...they werent fair...but the truth is people were free and i do know for a fact that they did vote for the invasion of kuwait and the war with iran before that.


    but i think your missing the statement.

    THEY WERE SELF-GOVERNED BEFORE!

    they were a country, regardless of your opinions of saddam.

    They where a soverign nation but that does not equate to a self governing nation. The peopleof Iraqhad no say in government and just becausethey had the option to go to the polls and vote for one candidate because no other candidate was allowed to run does not make them a self governing nation. Look Bush is an ass wipe but he is correct in saying that Iraq becoming a self governing nation is a noble cause I just disagree with the way he decided to go about doing it.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    but again I am straying the subject

    IRAQ WAS SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!!!

    FACT!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    oh and compared to other so called ''dictators'' he's not that vicious...and for the record Saddam never held prison camps.... our presidents have!

    So Iraq was sovereign because our president is bad? Gotcha.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    but again I am straying the subject

    IRAQ WAS SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!!!

    FACT!

    Hehe...on what do you base that fact?
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    macgyver06 wrote:
    but again I am straying the subject

    IRAQ WAS SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!!!

    FACT!

    How were they self governed?
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    darkcrow wrote:
    so true. it is the tool of every political party. "if you dont vote for us something bad will happen"

    one that comes to mind was during the midterms and the republicans had that one with the ticking and osama.

    in my country our politicians love to use illegal immigrants to scare us.


    lol...bush gave a ''French'' (who he told us to hate for some reason??) company

    what was it like a zillion dollars for bird-flu vaccinations...which no longer exist...and also the private stock holders of sofeui pasteur remain private under contesting.

    this guy is going to prison..no doubt..its insane!
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    macgyver06 wrote:
    but again I am straying the subject

    IRAQ WAS SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!!!

    FACT!

    YOU OBVIOUSLY UNDERSTAND "SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!" DIFFERENTLY THAN MANY/MOST OF US.

    FACT!
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    macgyver06 wrote:
    but again I am straying the subject

    IRAQ WAS SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!!!

    FACT!

    Why is it a fact because you said it was. Self governing means that the citizens of that country decide on who will run their government. They have options on who to elect and are not forced into supporting just one individual or one party. Saddam used torture, murder, and god knows what other vile method to supress any oppostion to his rule. Their was no choice in Iraq it was Saddam or a prison cell in Abu Graib or worse a dicth in the desert with a hole in your head. Soverignty does not equate freedom or selfgoverning.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    jeffbr wrote:
    YOU OBVIOUSLY UNDERSTAND "SELF-GOVERNED!!!!!!!" DIFFERENTLY THAN MANY/MOST OF US.

    FACT!

    with all respect...

    this is not opinion you must understand that IRAQ was within the entity of themeselves, SELF GOVERNED.

    they were soverign. unstable apparently, no War planes and the absense of an established military.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    theres no...

    i think self governed means this

    NO

    look it up..

    when you govern yourself...you govern yourself
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    theres no...

    i think self governed means this

    NO

    look it up..

    when you govern yourself...you govern yourself

    Did you govern yourself to a few drinks this morning?

    Governing yourself means that your will and your actions are linked. Far too often in Iraq, the will of the people was manifested in opposite actions.
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    mammasan wrote:
    Why is it a fact because you said it was. Self governing means that the citizens of that country decide on who will run their government. They have options on who to elect and are not forced into supporting just one individual or one party. Saddam used torture, murder, and god knows what other vile method to supress any oppostion to his rule. Their was no choice in Iraq it was Saddam or a prison cell in Abu Graib or worse a dicth in the desert with a hole in your head. Soverignty does not equate freedom or selfgoverning.

    No. Self Governing means thh country is Soverign.

    you govern yourself...meaning...if you are a part of a country, no matter what the rule is at the time...you are a part of the collective 'yourself'
    also, iraq technically wasn't a dictatorship, based on the fact

    THEY HAD ELECTIONS!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    macgyver06 wrote:
    THEY HAD ELECTIONS!

    Incidentally, how do you feel about the 2000/2004 US elections?

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