Your voice, Unions, and Politics

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  • youngster
    youngster Boston Posts: 6,576
    TheBeach wrote:
    What state do you live in?

    Massachusetts. The union is in Boston.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

    9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
    5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
    8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
    EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
  • supersonicyears
    supersonicyears Posts: 2,619
    cropduster82 wrote:
    Massachusetts. The union is in Boston.
    If it gets worse here. I may be checking that out. Thanks
    "In the age of darkness
    want to be enlightened"
  • youngster
    youngster Boston Posts: 6,576
    TheBeach wrote:
    If it gets worse here. I may be checking that out. Thanks

    You don't have to move to find a union job. My union here has locals all over the US and Canada that pays all their workers the prevailing wage in the area. Also, there are many trades to choose from. Just go online and find local unions in your area. Hope this helps and sorry I don't have any links at the moment.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

    9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
    5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
    8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
    EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    jeffbr wrote:
    The great thing about my state is that we have "at will" employment. You are free to quit anytime. I am free to dismiss you at any time without cause.

    If you start threatening me, you're fired. Unskilled labor is a comodity, and there is a line of people waiting to be hired. If you don't want the job, or don't want to work for what we've already agreed to, then it was fun while it lasted, but I'm going to look elsewhere. Thanks for your past efforts, I wish you well in your future endeavors.
    In every workforce it's hard to find two people with the same level of committment. Do you reward any of your workers for being more committed and loyal than say your 'normal workers'?
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jeffbr wrote:
    The great thing about my state is that we have "at will" employment. You are free to quit anytime. I am free to dismiss you at any time without cause.

    If you start threatening me, you're fired. Unskilled labor is a comodity, and there is a line of people waiting to be hired. If you don't want the job, or don't want to work for what we've already agreed to, then it was fun while it lasted, but I'm going to look elsewhere. Thanks for your past efforts, I wish you well in your future endeavors.
    'at will employment' actually isn't such a "great thing" for the working class. Great for you I'm sure.

    thing is, if, and this isn't really an 'if', its when an employer starts to abuse the employees he has hired-and that can range from anything to not paying them overtime (something I had to deal with) to not honoring worker's comp to changing the hours whenever they feel like it-when these things start to happen, in an 'at will' employment situation, the workers have no one to go to guarantee their rights. They have no choice but to obey, because their employer can fire them at any time.

    Even at an at will employment situation I encourage employees to organize, again, if no one comes to work tomorrow they don't have a business.

    Labor runs this country, not managers and owners.
  • darthvedder81
    darthvedder81 Posts: 688
    Unions have destroyed industry in the United States. Particularly the auto industry where due to the pissing and moaning of American workers quality went to shit and Japan and Korea blew past everyone. I only buy Toyota and Honda because they, you know, actually still run after 5 years.
    So this life is sacrifice...
    6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
  • youngster
    youngster Boston Posts: 6,576
    darthvedder81 wrote:
    Unions have destroyed industry in the United States. Particularly the auto industry where due to the pissing and moaning of American workers quality went to shit and Japan and Korea blew past everyone. I only buy Toyota and Honda because they, you know, actually still run after 5 years.

    Pissing and moaning, huh? I seem to recall not long ago that GM wanted to eliminate the pensions of all their assembly line workers to dig the company out of a financial jam. Wouldn't you bitch if you were one of them? You work all your life so you'll be protected when you retire and because of a few bad corporate decisions, you're fucked. Seems like corporate greed is what is destroying industry in the US, not the workers. Toyota and Honda are made by union workers in the US, by the way, so you just fucked up your whole argument.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

    9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
    5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
    8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
    EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    I watched Battle In Seattle last night (Roland started a thread about it)...
    It reminded me of this thread...
    The Seattle WTO protests were an example of how organized labour can work to uphold the peoples' rights, and the impact it can have when it puts it's weight behind a cause...
    The threat of a general strike hastened the illegaly-held protesters release. The sheer number of protesters is what made the protest a success (from an anti-globalism standpoint), numbers that would not have been possible without the unions.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    cropduster82 wrote:
    Pissing and moaning, huh? I seem to recall not long ago that GM wanted to eliminate the pensions of all their assembly line workers to dig the company out of a financial jam. Wouldn't you bitch if you were one of them? You work all your life so you'll be protected when you retire and because of a few bad corporate decisions, you're fucked. Seems like corporate greed is what is destroying industry in the US, not the workers. Toyota and Honda are made by union workers in the US, by the way, so you just fucked up your whole argument.

    The union largely got them in that position! That and poor decision making by management, and the CRIPPLING pension plan liabilities. Unions served their purpose a long time ago. Now they are crippling the auto industry. I think the main reasons people seem to dislike unions are the union managment is corrupt, sloppy workmanship, and horrible employees that can't be fired. When I was in high school I paid union dues to be able to earn $5.50 bagging groceries. Ha. Thanks for that opportunity unions!

    People should live like their pension plans will be zero. Take some personal responsibility and save accordingly.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    cropduster82 wrote:
    Seems like corporate greed is what is destroying industry in the US, not the workers. Toyota and Honda are made by union workers in the US, by the way, so you just fucked up your whole argument.

    Which Toyota and Honda plants are union? I'm having trouble finding anything on the internet that doesn't state they have no union plants. This article from 2007 states that no Asian automaker has a UAW union plant.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/10/bloomberg/10sxuaw.php
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    cropduster82 wrote:
    Pissing and moaning, huh? I seem to recall not long ago that GM wanted to eliminate the pensions of all their assembly line workers to dig the company out of a financial jam. Wouldn't you bitch if you were one of them? You work all your life so you'll be protected when you retire and because of a few bad corporate decisions, you're fucked. Seems like corporate greed is what is destroying industry in the US, not the workers. Toyota and Honda are made by union workers in the US, by the way, so you just fucked up your whole argument.


    Personally if my choices were a job with no pension or no job at all I would probably choose the job with no pension since at least it is better then being unemployed. Especially if I did assembly line work which was developed so that people can work on them with as little training as possible, since it is not like my skills can easily transfer to many other jobs. But unions don't seem to realize that these days those are the two options. Gone are the days when you can walk off the job and the company will lose so much in lost production that they will accept your demands. Then again the union president gets paid either way right?
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    There are really still people with pensions? The real world has 401Ks, Roths and IRAs.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • youngster
    youngster Boston Posts: 6,576
    know1 wrote:
    There are really still people with pensions? The real world has 401Ks, Roths and IRAs.

    Yep, and the real world seems to be in the shitter according to Wall St. stocks.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

    9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
    5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
    8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
    EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    cropduster82 wrote:
    Yep, and the real world seems to be in the shitter according to Wall St. stocks.


    Not me. I have just as many shares as I did a few weeks ago. And this week when my 401K money goes in, I'll buy more shares than I did last time.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • youngster
    youngster Boston Posts: 6,576
    know1 wrote:
    Not me. I have just as many shares as I did a few weeks ago. And this week when my 401K money goes in, I'll buy more shares than I did last time.

    Lucky you. I personally know about 3 people who have taken a bath in what's been going on. Hopefully it gets better for everyone else before it gets worse. Good luck on your share buying and hopefully it turns out to be a good investment.
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

    9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
    5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
    8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
    EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    The problem with this attitude is the fact that by inviting in a Union you are actually losing your individual voice. You are taking away the ability for a company to deal with employee's individual issues/concerns on an individual basis, instead they must create rules for all to follow rather than guide by a set of principles. That is one of my biggest reasons for not liking unions. Work with them a while and you see many more...
    hippiemom = goodness

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