Holy Land Foundation charity found guilty in supporting "terrorism"
fuck
Posts: 4,069
This is fucking outrageous, I actually can't think clearly. Here's yet another example of the disgusting persecution of anything supportive of Palestine, especially post-9/11.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7747187.stm
"The prosecution argued that Hamas controlled the charities to which $12.4m was sent between 1995 and 2001."
even IF the bullshit allegation that Hamas controlled these charities (though the evidence was completely pale and weak) was true, what the fuck is the problem with who controlled them if, at the end of the day, they're CHARITIES.
"The indictment against the group said it sponsored orphans and families in the West Bank and Gaza whose relatives had died or been imprisoned as a result of Hamas attacks on Israel."
And of course, that is completely awful. You're a criminal, no, a TERRORIST, for supporting orphans and families whose relatives had died due to fighting an ongoing oppression and occupation. In fact, you deserve LIFE in prison for that.
This country actually makes me sick. The worst of it all: the rest of America sits back and watches. It's one thing when it happens in Palestine and we pretend to not notice it. But for something like this to take place in our own country is absolutely disgraceful.
I seriously need a drink.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7747187.stm
"The prosecution argued that Hamas controlled the charities to which $12.4m was sent between 1995 and 2001."
even IF the bullshit allegation that Hamas controlled these charities (though the evidence was completely pale and weak) was true, what the fuck is the problem with who controlled them if, at the end of the day, they're CHARITIES.
"The indictment against the group said it sponsored orphans and families in the West Bank and Gaza whose relatives had died or been imprisoned as a result of Hamas attacks on Israel."
And of course, that is completely awful. You're a criminal, no, a TERRORIST, for supporting orphans and families whose relatives had died due to fighting an ongoing oppression and occupation. In fact, you deserve LIFE in prison for that.
This country actually makes me sick. The worst of it all: the rest of America sits back and watches. It's one thing when it happens in Palestine and we pretend to not notice it. But for something like this to take place in our own country is absolutely disgraceful.
I seriously need a drink.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
The difference between you and me and most Americans for that matter, do not support a "charity" that gives money to suicide bombers families.
and what makes me sick is that suicide bombers families are rewarded for killing innocent civilians in the name of charity.
and if this country really makes you sick, why do you live here? why not move to Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt? they would be happy to take you in. I always shake my head when I hear comments like that. no one has a gun to your head, you are free to go whenever you want. for example, if I lived in Saudi Arabia, I would be sick to my stomach about how women are treated in that country. there is no way I could live there.
But most people choose to regard it as involving two sides who are equally to blame and that we should therefore wash our hands of it. Never mind the fact that the U.S government is actively supporting and funding ethnic cleansing.
No, you give $4 Billion to fund Israeli terror and ethnic cleansing instead.
They're not rewarded. They're given the means to survive after their homes are illegally destroyed - a war crime - by U.S supplied Caterpillar bulldozers.
That old chestnut - 'if you don't like it leave'. Because that's any kind of solution. How about trying to change what's wrong with your country instead?
You give the money directly to other terrorists through taxes.
They are not rewarded. Is a five year old child responsible for his father's actions? Should a society just let orphans die or starve or live on the street because of what their parents did?
naděje umírá poslední
I thought the family of any would be suicide bomber gets an outrageous sum of money if their loved one goes through with it? That was one of the incentives of being a suicide bomber, that your family gets taken care of financially and they become a glorious martyr? Wasn't that an argument that Saddam was sending money to the families of suicide bombers in Palestine? Iran and Syria also support this sort of thing as well?
This isn't "sorry your loved one killed themselves, here is an ass load of money". More like "if your loved one kills themselves, we will give you an ass load of money".
But then again...this could be a real chairity.
...and people ACTUALLY try to argue we don't live in an oppressive state. this country doesn't infringe on our rights, absolutely not.
and I won't bother responding to the rest of that nonsensical post.
....that had family members participate in suicide bombings? no.
my power to you then. good luck
I don't condone suicide bombings. To me the killing of innocents in the name of any cause is disgusting but should the children of these suicide bombers suffer because of the actions of their parents. If this charity is simply providing aid to orphans, regardless of why they are orphans, then I see nothing wrong with it. As long as none of the money is making it's way to fund terrorism.
To be quite honest I don't think the bombers need the money, for their families, as a motivator. There are far greater motivators for these people out there that need to be addressed. These charitable contributions are not one of them.
I agree there are far greater motivators to be addressed but I see this as one of them. or at the least one that can be used.
The greatest motivators out there is a lack of education and hope for a future. This sum of money given to families is nothing. Jihadist leaders know who to recruit, the uneducated, poor, hopeless mass that liter most Middle Eastern countries. These people are willing to sacrifice their lives for a cause because they have nothing to live for. If you stopped charitable contributions to families of suicide bombers you would not see a decline because the people still have nothing to live for. Change their outlook on the future through education and economic/political reform and then you will see a huge drop off in terrorist attacks.
yea I agree with all that. but I disagree the money given is nothing. when saddam was doing it, attacks went up..
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/03/world/main505316.shtml
Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.
Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.
Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.
I'm not saying this is what The Holy Land group was doing. just making the point that money certainly can be a motivator. as for this group, keep in mind that were operating on US soil and giving money to Hamas. the US has deemed that illegal. and were also convicted of money laundering and tax fraud.
Well tax fraud and money laundering is a whole other game and if engaging in these activities they deserve to be punished. As for dealing with Hamas, I'm not a huge fan of Hamas, but they are the democratically elected government of the Gaza Strip. Hamas does do some good for the people it represents but it's support of violence over shadows that.
I also understand why you believe that the money can be a motivator but I simply disagree. This problem goes far beyond a mere $25,000 donation. As i said only a person who has nothing to live for would kill them selves and $25,000 while a nice sum of cash is not going to change the desperation found in many corners of the Middle East.
it all ties into the idea of supporting Palestinians, which in this country means supporting terrorism. sadly, ignorant and mindless drones like you are the ones who condone it.
why are all your personal attacks allowed ? does this forum have rules?
Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds.
no its actually a very valid point. whether or not you agree is invalid.
did you sit in on the trail? have you read transcripts?
yes, many people in this country and around the world believe Hamas acts and operates as a terrorist organization.
can you post them? or would I be calling your bluff
US foreign policy is definitely the 800 pound Gorilla in the room, but even with our ridiculous foreign policy these jihadist leaders would not be able to recruit people, en mass, without the poor conditions existing on the ground. Now we can discuss how US foreign policy may lead to these conditions and how changing our foreign policy is a pre-cursor to improving the living conditions in many of these countries but that is for another time and thread.
Also even though I disagree with pearljamfan1212 his opinion is a valid one. One can easily say that the donation of money to families of suicide bomber can be a motivating factor. I think that in a small minority of the case money may have motivated the individual but I don't think it's a significant number to actually cause these donations to be viewed as a factor.
You have no possible way of backing up that statement. You have no idea what motivates and doesn't motivate them. So in a sense his opinion is valid because until we know the motivation behind each and ever single attack we have no definitive proof that he is wrong or that you are right.
are you aware that people have different points of view then you? just because you disagree with someone doesnt make it invalid...and its not pure and simple.
take a note from mammason. its frightening clear to see you are a teenager and he is in his 30s.
am I close?
you have some growing up to do. and thats not an insult. I mean that sincerely.
do you ever get tired of saying the same things over and over and over again? this dead horse has been beat on alot (well a little less with the election but still we averaged a "palstenians are good israel is bad" thread or 2 a week for at least the last six months). I get it you don't agree with the US gov't or the majority of its population that feels Israel is in the right and is properly defending itself in many situations.
But what is this doing? Are you trying to change minds or are you just bored?
But back the topic at hand, the HLF case, wow have you got this all tied up and backwards and using the BBC is no better then using FOX news as the source. This was not a charity it was a front and was exposed as such, the Hamas leader, Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, that seeded the money to start the "charity" had been on terrorist watch lists since 1995. Post 9-11 all of the assets of this "charity" were frozen pending investigation in the US and EU (shocking). Looking closely at the dealings of this charity and low and behold some strange things were going on with another of Marzook's businesses InfoCom. See he was using the HLF to raise funds and then using InfoCom for computer services and hiding the transactions that were funneling the money to Hamas militants (not orphans and families sorry). Its not convulted its not smoke and mirrors its what happened. I will be interested if this gets picked up for appeal but I doubt it. Not much to get worked up about, glad the system is working actually.
— Socrates