Holy Land Foundation charity found guilty in supporting "terrorism"

fuck

This is fucking outrageous, I actually can't think clearly. Here's yet another example of the disgusting persecution of anything supportive of Palestine, especially post-9/11.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7747187.stm

"The prosecution argued that Hamas controlled the charities to which $12.4m was sent between 1995 and 2001."

even IF the bullshit allegation that Hamas controlled these charities (though the evidence was completely pale and weak) was true, what the fuck is the problem with who controlled them if, at the end of the day, they're CHARITIES.

"The indictment against the group said it sponsored orphans and families in the West Bank and Gaza whose relatives had died or been imprisoned as a result of Hamas attacks on Israel."

And of course, that is completely awful. You're a criminal, no, a TERRORIST, for supporting orphans and families whose relatives had died due to fighting an ongoing oppression and occupation. In fact, you deserve LIFE in prison for that.

This country actually makes me sick. The worst of it all: the rest of America sits back and watches. It's one thing when it happens in Palestine and we pretend to not notice it. But for something like this to take place in our own country is absolutely disgraceful.

I seriously need a drink.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

This is fucking outrageous, I actually can't think clearly. Here's yet another example of the disgusting persecution of anything supportive of Palestine, especially post-9/11.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7747187.stm

"The prosecution argued that Hamas controlled the charities to which $12.4m was sent between 1995 and 2001."

even IF the bullshit allegation that Hamas controlled these charities (though the evidence was completely pale and weak) was true, what the fuck is the problem with who controlled them if, at the end of the day, they're CHARITIES.

"The indictment against the group said it sponsored orphans and families in the West Bank and Gaza whose relatives had died or been imprisoned as a result of Hamas attacks on Israel."

And of course, that is completely awful. You're a criminal, no, a TERRORIST, for supporting orphans and families whose relatives had died due to fighting an ongoing oppression and occupation. In fact, you deserve LIFE in prison for that.

This country actually makes me sick. The worst of it all: the rest of America sits back and watches. It's one thing when it happens in Palestine and we pretend to not notice it. But for something like this to take place in our own country is absolutely disgraceful.

I seriously need a drink.

The difference between you and me and most Americans for that matter, do not support a "charity" that gives money to suicide bombers families.

and what makes me sick is that suicide bombers families are rewarded for killing innocent civilians in the name of charity.

and if this country really makes you sick, why do you live here? why not move to Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt? they would be happy to take you in. I always shake my head when I hear comments like that. no one has a gun to your head, you are free to go whenever you want. for example, if I lived in Saudi Arabia, I would be sick to my stomach about how women are treated in that country. there is no way I could live there.

Byrnzie

Yep, it's pretty fucked-up.
But most people choose to regard it as involving two sides who are equally to blame and that we should therefore wash our hands of it. Never mind the fact that the U.S government is actively supporting and funding ethnic cleansing.

Byrnzie

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

The difference between you and me and most Americans for that matter, do not support a "charity" that gives money to suicide bombers families.

No, you give $4 Billion to fund Israeli terror and ethnic cleansing instead.

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

and what makes me sick is that suicide bombers families are rewarded for killing innocent civilians in the name of charity.

They're not rewarded. They're given the means to survive after their homes are illegally destroyed - a war crime - by U.S supplied Caterpillar bulldozers.

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

and if this country really makes you sick, why do you live here? why not move to Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt? they would be happy to take you in. I always shake my head when I hear comments like that. no one has a gun to your head, you are free to go whenever you want. for example, if I lived in Saudi Arabia, I would be sick to my stomach about how women are treated in that country. there is no way I could live there.

That old chestnut - 'if you don't like it leave'. Because that's any kind of solution. How about trying to change what's wrong with your country instead?

pearljamfan1212

Byrnzie wrote:

That old chestnut - 'if you don't like it leave'. Because that's any kind of solution. How about trying to change what's wrong with your country instead?

I support that too. but if it were me, I would leave. like I said in my example of living in a country like Saudi. the world is a big place, no need to live somewhere and be sickened and unhappy. just sayin.

Collin

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

The difference between you and me and most Americans for that matter, do not support a "charity" that gives money to suicide bombers families.

You give the money directly to other terrorists through taxes.

and what makes me sick is that suicide bombers families are rewarded for killing innocent civilians in the name of charity.

They are not rewarded. Is a five year old child responsible for his father's actions? Should a society just let orphans die or starve or live on the street because of what their parents did?

OffHeGoes29

_outlaw wrote:

This is fucking outrageous, I actually can't think clearly. Here's yet another example of the disgusting persecution of anything supportive of Palestine, especially post-9/11.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7747187.stm

"The prosecution argued that Hamas controlled the charities to which $12.4m was sent between 1995 and 2001."

even IF the bullshit allegation that Hamas controlled these charities (though the evidence was completely pale and weak) was true, what the fuck is the problem with who controlled them if, at the end of the day, they're CHARITIES.

"The indictment against the group said it sponsored orphans and families in the West Bank and Gaza whose relatives had died or been imprisoned as a result of Hamas attacks on Israel."

And of course, that is completely awful. You're a criminal, no, a TERRORIST, for supporting orphans and families whose relatives had died due to fighting an ongoing oppression and occupation. In fact, you deserve LIFE in prison for that.

This country actually makes me sick. The worst of it all: the rest of America sits back and watches. It's one thing when it happens in Palestine and we pretend to not notice it. But for something like this to take place in our own country is absolutely disgraceful.

I seriously need a drink.

I thought the family of any would be suicide bomber gets an outrageous sum of money if their loved one goes through with it? That was one of the incentives of being a suicide bomber, that your family gets taken care of financially and they become a glorious martyr? Wasn't that an argument that Saddam was sending money to the families of suicide bombers in Palestine? Iran and Syria also support this sort of thing as well?

This isn't "sorry your loved one killed themselves, here is an ass load of money". More like "if your loved one kills themselves, we will give you an ass load of money".

But then again...this could be a real chairity.

fuck

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

I thought the family of any would be suicide bomber gets an outrageous sum of money if their loved one goes through with it? That was one of the incentives of being a suicide bomber, that your family gets taken care of financially and they become a glorious martyr? Wasn't that an argument that Saddam was sending money to the families of suicide bombers in Palestine? Iran and Syria also support this sort of thing as well?

This isn't "sorry your loved one killed themselves, here is an ass load of money". More like "if your loved one kills themselves, we will give you an ass load of money".

actually, it's nothing like that.

But then again...this could be a real chairity.

No. this IS a real charity. the government even admitted this. their argument was that because the money would support the charitable side of Hamas, Hamas was able to use other money for more violence. how that makes logical sense is beyond me, but in this country you can actually get put in jail for something like that.

...and people ACTUALLY try to argue we don't live in an oppressive state. this country doesn't infringe on our rights, absolutely not.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

The difference between you and me and most Americans for that matter, do not support a "charity" that gives money to suicide bombers families.

so apparently the difference between me and you and most Americans is that you guys don't support giving money to orphans and poor people in Palestine?

and what makes me sick is that suicide bombers families are rewarded for killing innocent civilians in the name of charity.

that's disturbing. how did you reach such a completely irrational conclusion?

and I won't bother responding to the rest of that nonsensical post.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I support that too. but if it were me, I would leave. like I said in my example of living in a country like Saudi. the world is a big place, no need to live somewhere and be sickened and unhappy. just sayin.

that's perfectly fine, but I'd rather not give up and actually try to change something in my country.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

so apparently the difference between me and you and most Americans is that you guys don't support giving money to orphans and poor people in Palestine?

....that had family members participate in suicide bombings? no.

pearljamfan1212

_outlaw wrote:

that's perfectly fine, but I'd rather not give up and actually try to change something in my country.

my power to you then. good luck

mammasan

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

....that had family members participate in suicide bombings? no.

I don't condone suicide bombings. To me the killing of innocents in the name of any cause is disgusting but should the children of these suicide bombers suffer because of the actions of their parents. If this charity is simply providing aid to orphans, regardless of why they are orphans, then I see nothing wrong with it. As long as none of the money is making it's way to fund terrorism.

pearljamfan1212

mammasan wrote:

I don't condone suicide bombings. To me the killing of innocents in the name of any cause is disgusting but should the children of these suicide bombers suffer because of the actions of their parents. If this charity is simply providing aid to orphans, regardless of why they are orphans, then I see nothing wrong with it. As long as none of the money is making it's way to fund terrorism.

I'm all for aid to children too. but this is just an incentive for more dumb fuck suicide bombers. "its ok if I go kill myself, I know my kids will be taken care of by charity x"

mammasan

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I'm all for aid to children too. but this is just an incentive for more dumb fuck suicide bombers. "its ok if I go kill myself, I know my kids will be taken care of by charity x"

To be quite honest I don't think the bombers need the money, for their families, as a motivator. There are far greater motivators for these people out there that need to be addressed. These charitable contributions are not one of them.

pearljamfan1212

mammasan wrote:

To be quite honest I don't think the bombers need the money, for their families, as a motivator. There are far greater motivators for these people out there that need to be addressed. These charitable contributions are not one of them.

I agree there are far greater motivators to be addressed but I see this as one of them. or at the least one that can be used.

mammasan

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

I agree there are far greater motivators to be addressed but I see this as one of them. or at the least one that can be used.

The greatest motivators out there is a lack of education and hope for a future. This sum of money given to families is nothing. Jihadist leaders know who to recruit, the uneducated, poor, hopeless mass that liter most Middle Eastern countries. These people are willing to sacrifice their lives for a cause because they have nothing to live for. If you stopped charitable contributions to families of suicide bombers you would not see a decline because the people still have nothing to live for. Change their outlook on the future through education and economic/political reform and then you will see a huge drop off in terrorist attacks.

pearljamfan1212

mammasan wrote:

The greatest motivators out there is a lack of education and hope for a future. This sum of money given to families is nothing. Jihadist leaders know who to recruit, the uneducated, poor, hopeless mass that liter most Middle Eastern countries. These people are willing to sacrifice their lives for a cause because they have nothing to live for. If you stopped charitable contributions to families of suicide bombers you would not see a decline because the people still have nothing to live for. Change their outlook on the future through education and economic/political reform and then you will see a huge drop off in terrorist attacks.

yea I agree with all that. but I disagree the money given is nothing. when saddam was doing it, attacks went up..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/03/world/main505316.shtml

Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.

Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.

Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.

---

I'm not saying this is what The Holy Land group was doing. just making the point that money certainly can be a motivator. as for this group, keep in mind that were operating on US soil and giving money to Hamas. the US has deemed that illegal. and were also convicted of money laundering and tax fraud.

mammasan

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

yea I agree with all that. but I disagree the money given is nothing. when saddam was doing it, attacks went up..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/03/world/main505316.shtml

Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.

Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.

Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.

---

I'm not saying this is what The Holy Land group was doing. just making the point that money certainly can be a motivator. as for this group, keep in mind that were operating on US soil and giving money to Hamas. the US has deemed that illegal. and were also convicted of money laundering and tax fraud.

Well tax fraud and money laundering is a whole other game and if engaging in these activities they deserve to be punished. As for dealing with Hamas, I'm not a huge fan of Hamas, but they are the democratically elected government of the Gaza Strip. Hamas does do some good for the people it represents but it's support of violence over shadows that.

I also understand why you believe that the money can be a motivator but I simply disagree. This problem goes far beyond a mere $25,000 donation. As i said only a person who has nothing to live for would kill them selves and $25,000 while a nice sum of cash is not going to change the desperation found in many corners of the Middle East.

fuck

pearljamfan1212 wrote:

Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.

WOW. read your own fucking article, won't you? clearly the payment is not what motivates them. maybe instead of cutting off funds to orphans and poor people we should cut off funds to Israel, who is occupying the Palestinians, leading them to such measures? Oh, that would make too much sense.

I'm not saying this is what The Holy Land group was doing. just making the point that money certainly can be a motivator.

It's an invalid point.

as for this group, keep in mind that were operating on US soil and giving money to Hamas. the US has deemed that illegal.

Wrong. they were giving money to charities. the US deemed giving hamas money illegal, but giving money to charities, regardless of who they are run by should not be illegal.

and were also convicted of money laundering and tax fraud.

the reason they were convicted of tax fraud is because they were a tax-free organization due to them donating to charities. however, the govt argued that they should pay taxes because their money allegedly did not go all directly to charities, which is bullshit. same thing with money laundering, the govt alleges that they never gave the full details of the destination of the money, again--bullshit.

it all ties into the idea of supporting Palestinians, which in this country means supporting terrorism. sadly, ignorant and mindless drones like you are the ones who condone it.

fuck

mammasan wrote:

Change their outlook on the future through education and economic/political reform and then you will see a huge drop off in terrorist attacks.

That'd be nice. Before that though, maybe we can also stop the occupation of their land?