Obama: Bush Senior “did an excellent job when it came to the Gulf War"
Comments
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it's worthless trying to argue this point with you when you don't understand what anyone has been saying...my2hands wrote:i criticize people that continue to talk about and debate things they apparenty know nothing about
the "green light" thing is bullshit, i posted the entire memo of that discussion for everyone to read instaed of the typical out of context 1 sentence that is typically quoted wrongly
and again, i see you have no answer as well. i guess you guys would have sent saddam a nice flower arrangement. diplomacy was tried via the UN. snactions were tried by the UN. there was overwhelming world pressure for Iraq to withdraw. the UN security council passed a reslolution authorizing force if iraq did not withdraw by a certain date. what else do you want? to hold saddams hand? he knew that if he did not withdraw the UN military action was going to happen. so he satyed. but you can continue to blame america if that makes you happy.
and yes, i will continue to politiely point out when someone is talking out of their ass.
so, what do you think shoukld have been done after UN attempts at diplomacy and sanctions did not work?
no one wakes up to an invasion of another country... they knew it was going to happen, and the US chose not to interfere early on..... the whole point is that it could have been much easier to prevent it from the beginning, and the US knew that...
not only that, but even after the US jumped into the conflict, it was handled poorly and in an uncivilized manner as was pointed out time and time again in this topic... 200 000 soldiers were massacred while they RETREATED, tons of rebels were slaughtered after the US promised to support them in dethroning Saddam, and then the sanctions placed after the war caused the deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, 500 000 of whom were children.
and yet you keep choosing to ignore all this and just point out that Bush DIDNT go into Iraq which was "AMAZING!!!" and he helped liberate Kuwait, how incredible.... at the cost of millions of Iraqis lives, of course....0 -
MrSmith wrote:werent you like 4 years old at the time? the only people you knew were playing Sonic the Hedgehog and listening to NKOTB...
dont worry dude, he obviosuly doesnt know what he is talking about
if i rememebr correctly, there was overwhelming pressure to "finish the job" and take Saddam out. as a matter of fact Bush caught backlash at home and it was one of the reasons he lost the 1992 election. because alot felt that he was weak and did not "finish the job".
what obama was saying is that he handled the threat and then had the smarts not to make it amjor mess by taking out the regime and destablizing the entire country and region. but some folks around ghere will take it and spin it that Obama loves war and is blood thirsty :rolleyes:
internet idealists and activists get to speak from the safety and comfort of their keyboard. meanwhile this shit is really happening and has to be dealt with. again, being "progressive" does not mean you ignore reality.
go to kuwait and ask them how they feel about having been saved by the UN and the USA... i bet they are quite grateful, considering thye were about to be occupied by Saddam Hussein and placed under military occupation0 -
OK ok ok so assuming the US knew it was going to happen (which i dont but you are convinced). they did nothing while Iraq invaded Kuwait. ok are we all on the same page now!?!?!?
So they have invaded. We, as the world's police, have fucked up. We weren't paying attention as closely as we should have. Now a vast army has rolled over a peaceful nation, are doing terrible things and refuse to leave. IS WAR JUSTIFIED NOW!?!?! Please, get over your rigid all encompassing life philosophy and answer the question!0 -
_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:it's worthless trying to argue this point with you when you don't understand what anyone has been saying...
no one wakes up to an invasion of another country... they knew it was going to happen, and the US chose not to interfere early on..... the whole point is that it could have been much easier to prevent it from the beginning, and the US knew that...
not only that, but even after the US jumped into the conflict, it was handled poorly and in an uncivilized manner as was pointed out time and time again in this topic... 200 000 soldiers were massacred while they RETREATED, tons of rebels were slaughtered after the US promised to support them in dethroning Saddam, and then the sanctions placed after the war caused the deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, 500 000 of whom were children.
and yet you keep choosing to ignore all this and just point out that Bush DIDNT go into Iraq which was "AMAZING!!!" and he helped liberate Kuwait, how incredible.... at the cost of millions of Iraqis lives, of course....
i am not ignoring anything.
know one has pointed out what the US could have done to prevent the invasion? feel free to sell me on it though.
you drive a tank over someone elses border to invade them, then you need to expect to die in an act of war. that is uncivilized, and that is also how it is. war is uncilized. they started it by invading a peaceful neighbor. what dont you understand about that. you gus act as if saddam and iraq did nothing wrong here? they were these inncoent little patsies :rolleyes:
the sanctions following the war are a different discussion. i know all about them and thier affect on the country. i have never said i was afan. but that is also a different discusion. this discussion is how do you persuade IRAQ TO WITHDRAW.
my main point is that military intervention is sometimes justified. and i can gove a long list of times it was justifued and other times when it should have been used and wasnt
i am not justifying the immoral wars such as vietnam, the seond iraq war, military intervention in central and south america, etc...0 -
MrSmith wrote:OK ok ok so assuming the US knew it was going to happen (which i dont but you are convinced). they did nothing while Iraq invaded Kuwait. ok are we all on the same page now!?!?!?
So they have invaded. We, as the world's police, have fucked up. We weren't paying attention as closely as we should have. Now a vast army has rolled over a peaceful nation, are doing terrible things and refuse to leave. IS WAR JUSTIFIED NOW!?!?! Please, get over your rigid all encompassing life philosophy and answer the question!
no, just throw flowers at them and quote gandhi over loud speakers, that should work
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_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:it's worthless trying to argue this point with you when you don't understand what anyone has been saying...
no one wakes up to an invasion of another country... they knew it was going to happen, and the US chose not to interfere early on..... the whole point is that it could have been much easier to prevent it from the beginning, and the US knew that...
not only that, but even after the US jumped into the conflict, it was handled poorly and in an uncivilized manner as was pointed out time and time again in this topic... 200 000 soldiers were massacred while they RETREATED, tons of rebels were slaughtered after the US promised to support them in dethroning Saddam, and then the sanctions placed after the war caused the deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, 500 000 of whom were children.
and yet you keep choosing to ignore all this and just point out that Bush DIDNT go into Iraq which was "AMAZING!!!" and he helped liberate Kuwait, how incredible.... at the cost of millions of Iraqis lives, of course....
Thank you! I don't know why you bother but thank you
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/2/4/171330/6192If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0 -
my2hands wrote:no, just throw flowers at them and quote gandhi over loud speakers, that should work
killing millions of people sounds like a better plan to me
yay war!If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0 -
Abookamongstthemany wrote:killing millions of people sounds like a better plan to me
yay war!
what do you supopose the iraq army was going to do in kuwait? throw a pizzy party?
a burlgar comes into my home, he gets shot. i hate guns, i hate violence, but when a bad guy threatens me or my family i will not hesitate to use force. perhaps you would invite him to join you in a yoga session?0 -
Abookamongstthemany wrote:killing millions of people sounds like a better plan to me
yay war!
another overly simplistic answer to a real question and problem.
thats where the far left ALWAYS loses their crediblity. their answer to the worlds problems are cute quotes0 -
_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
not only that, but even after the US jumped into the conflict, it was handled poorly and in an uncivilized manner as was pointed out time and time again in this topic... 200 000 soldiers were massacred while they RETREATED, tons of rebels were slaughtered after the US promised to support them in dethroning Saddam, and then the sanctions placed after the war caused the deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, 500 000 of whom were children.
.
sanctions are a poorly concieved diplomatic measure used to prevent war, not warfare!!!!!! those deaths are directly attributable to open POOR DIPLOMATIC MEASURES DESIGNED TO PREVENT THE NEED FOR INVASION! THE FAILURE WAS WITH DIPLOMACY.
200,000 soldiers were killed during a war. the fact that they were retreating is irrelevent. As i said before (and you convieniently ignored), in warfare you dont let up because you are winning! you stop when you win and your troops are safe. You stop when you are certain the enemy cant regroup and start the whole cycle all over again. the stakes are far too high. this is in essence why war is so terrible and should seldom (but not never) be fault. The noble idea of war you have about fighting fair with equal arms is something you learned from Hollywood. THAT IS NOT WAR. disgustingly large numbers of people die in war. it is unpreventable, but that does not mean war should never be fought.
as far as the point about the rebels getting slaughtered. you are 100% right. we fucked up. see how easy that was? We should have gone in a helped them...by bombing the shit out the people who were slaughtering them!0 -
my2hands wrote:another overly simplistic answer to a real question and problem.
thats where the far left ALWAYS loses their crediblity. their answer to the worlds problems are cute quotes
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt01.html
you sound more like a republican with each passing post...and you wonder why so many of us say there's no difference.If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0 -
Abookamongstthemany wrote:killing millions of people sounds like a better plan to me
yay war!
and again... you will not and acannot answer the question.
what would you propose should have been done differently
i was alive then, and so were you. so i fugure you could at least attempt to answer it with reality based answers and facts...0 -
Abookamongstthemany wrote:http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt01.html
you sound more like a republican with each passing post...and you wonder why so many of us say there's no difference.
1. i dotn not open any links you post. i will only read your words and your ideas. if i want what they have to say i can go find it on my own
2. i am a republican now? because i understand that sometimes military intervetion is needed and just... thats good, keep the insults coming!0 -
i bet you folks would think much differently if you lived in Kuwait in 1990
i am willing to stand up for the little guy... i am willing to help protect the defensless... you are not, and thats your choice.
just like i would have sent the military into rwanda in 1994 so fucking fast your head would spin. and i would also send the military into Darfur in a blink of an eye... and i had no problem with the Afhgan war against the Taliban...
i am anti war... but alos understand that sometimes military intervention is needed and just0 -
yeah "war=peace is stupid" right? Quick, someone post another Ghandi quote to back up there rigid and unyielding belief system! What other silly jingostic slogans can we come up with to avoid answering a very direct question with a difficult choice.Abookamongstthemany wrote:killing millions of people sounds like a better plan to me
yay war!0 -
my2hands wrote:1. i dotn not open any links you post. i will only read your words and your ideas. if i want what they have to say i can go find it on my own
2. i am a republican now? because i understand that sometimes military intervetion is needed and just... thats good, keep the insults coming!
then don't read or look...what a shocker
I guess you would rather I make up whatever I want in my head and post it instead of backing it up with info......I'll leave that for you to do.If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0 -
13 pages and no attempts at answering the real question here...0
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MrSmith wrote:yeah "war=peace is stupid" right? Quick, someone post another Ghandi quote to back up there rigid righteousness! What other silly jingostic slogans can we come up with to avoid answering a very direct question with a difficult choice.
quick someone tell us how killing millions of people accomplishes the task of making the world a safer place.If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0 -
Abookamongstthemany wrote:then don't read or look...what a shocker
I guess you would rather I make up whatever I want in my head and post it instead of backing it up with info......I'll leave that for you to do.
i can back my shit up with 99% of the historians on the planet. you have 1 sentence misquoted from a memo from 18 years ago0 -
my2hands wrote:i can back my shit up with 99% of the historians on the planet. you have 1 sentence misquoted from a memo from 18 years ago
huh?If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde0
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