If you recall during the Oslo accords, both sides made a serious effort to halt all the main things that had slowed or stopped peace talks previously. During that time, talks ensued about real and specific issues, like a two state settlement but eventually broke down once the topic of shared and open capital was discussed. But quite frankly, they were like 3/4ths of the way to having a deal in place in which both sides could acknowledge and live peacefully with. So with that stated, I think if both parties were to step up to the plate, a settlement could be worked out, but if neither party is ready to step up, than they're doomed to continue in this conflict. And when I say "step up", I don't simply mean by one party telling the other half what their demands are. That is not significant. Enacting and enabling ways to get a peace process in motion is.... something both sides haven't done.
what their demands are?? The Palestinians' demands exceed far greater than Israel withdrawing from the occupied territories. That's something that is IMPORTANT for Israel to do to begin talks in general. How can you expect the Palestinians to open talks with the Israelis WHILE THE ISRAELIS are building more homes on their land, dehumanizing their people on a daily basis, etc etc etc???
Also, I mentioned this earlier to which you had no response:
Hamas has said if Israel withdraws from the occupied territory, there would be peace while they discuss issues.
Israel has told Hamas to lay down weapons but has guaranteed NOTHING.
Oh, not to mention the fact that they were not "3/4ths" of the way done to achieving peace in the Oslo Accords. Israel offered the Palestinians the shittiest solution to the conflict, to which they knew Palestine would definitely not accept, because logically it cut the Palestinians off from essential land. Then Palestine offered their solution, which was the international consensus, to which Israel rejected. Where's the link that shows what Israel offered the Palestinians? It'll show how much Israel is interested in "peace."
Down the road after all the smoke and mirrors have settled people are going to realize they fully condoned and supported the inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people, and argued extensively for their continued suffering based on lies in the media.
I'm glad it won't be my realisation and humility to bear when the time comes.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Oh, so that makes it ok. Thanks for making that clear. Do you apply these little philosophies in your own life as well? You know, like someone steals from you, thus it makes it ok for you to steal from another human?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Oh, so that makes it ok. Thanks for making that clear. Do you apply these little philosophies in your own life as well? You know, like someone steals from you, thus it makes it ok for you to steal from another human?
kinda like paying forward the holocaust eh?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Oh, so that makes it ok. Thanks for making that clear. Do you apply these little philosophies in your own life as well? You know, like someone steals from you, thus it makes it ok for you to steal from another human?
If someone stole your house from you, killed your family, and humiliated you, while entrapping you in a small area with barely any necessary items to survive, what would you do?
If you are a US citizen and pay your taxes, you contribute and enable this to occur. You as a US citizen, and funder of Israeli funding via government programs and sales, are just as responsible as the unwitting citizen living in Israel who simply votes for a party member who may enable the conflict further. No one is innocent!
Down the road after all the smoke and mirrors have settled people are going to realize they fully condoned the and supported the inhumane treatment of the Palestinians, and argued extensively for their continued suffering based on lies in the media.
I'm glad it won't be my realisation and humility to bear when the time comes.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Nope, probably not...but without the terrorist attacks against innocent civilians, international pressure (even from the US ) would increase and it would be stopped.
as like the initial response below - palestinians have waited a long time for international pressure and largely thanks to the US - nothing came of that ...
If you are a US citizen and pay your taxes, you contribute and enable this to occur. You as a US citizen, and funder of Israeli funding via government programs and sales, are just as responsible as the unwitting citizen living in Israel who simply votes for a party member who may enable the conflict further. No one is innocent!
we all do what we can eh?
knowing is half the battle so they say. It does not negate the reality of what I said, and I live in Canada.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Now, I do obviously acknowledge many of the living standards are poor,etc, but how do you explain the fact that Palestinian population in the controlled areas have risen? If everything was as awful as your describing it, and as the "generic situation", wouldn't it go down?
If someone stole your house from you, killed your family, and humiliated you, while entrapping you in a small area with barely any necessary items to survive, what would you do?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Now, I do obviously acknowledge many of the living standards are poor,etc, but how do you explain the fact that Palestinian population in the controlled areas have risen? If everything was as awful as your describing it, and as the "generic situation", wouldn't it go down?
...?
what does that have anything to do with? It's been known throughout history that population rising is often common among the poor... what point does this prove? If Palestinians have lots of children, then it means the situation isn't bad?
It is sad that the little girl died. It reminds me of a 13 year old Palestinian girl who was shot dead by an Israeli soldier. Too bad nothing happened to him.
In fact, it also reminds me of 1046 other Palestinian children who have been killed by the Israelis, and the ZERO Israeli soldiers who were punished for it.
:rolleyes:
You always justify it...you say it's sad but you don't give a shit unless they're on "your side"
I can't recall anyone ever trying to make the point that life in Gaza and WB "isn't that bad" based on any given criteria available.
I'm a bit shocked...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
And you make a great point into why the UN is a worthless organization.
only as strong as it's weakest link...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You always justify it...you say it's sad but you don't give a shit unless they're on "your side"
Don't tell me what I give a shit about. I just pointed out your hypocrisy. You choose to ignore facts like 10-11 Palestinian children are killed when 1 Israeli child is killed. Instead you choose to talk about the violence Palestine inflicts on Israel, when it's so clear who's the aggressor.
Don't come to me to try to tell me what I'm trying to justify. I don't need to justify anything. The facts are there. Atleast I express some remorse about the Israeli children. You don't even fucking mention the Palestinian children. You just throw in these baseless arguments that are completely irrelevant to gain sympathy to the Israeli cause - a cause built on dehumanizing Palestine and stealing more land. Terrific.
Don't tell me what I give a shit about. I just pointed out your hypocrisy. You choose to ignore facts like 10-11 Palestinian children are killed when 1 Israeli child is killed. Instead you choose to talk about the violence Palestine inflicts on Israel, when it's so clear who's the aggressor.
Don't come to me to try to tell me what I'm trying to justify. I don't need to justify anything. The facts are there. Atleast I express some remorse about the Israeli children. You don't even fucking mention the Palestinian children. You just throw in these baseless arguments that are completely irrelevant to gain sympathy to the Israeli cause - a cause built on dehumanizing Palestine and stealing more land. Terrific.
I've never said that a Palestinian kid being killed was anything less then a ridiculous tragedy. I've ignored nothing.
I've also posted about terrorist Palestinian suicide bombers...and Israeli bulldozing and shooting of palestinians.
You've only ever seen 1 side of the story and justify all the killings of that side. It's a fact, I've read your posts.
Well if you already said that, then what are we arguing about? That's been the point all along.
I'm not sure I agree with your pre-1967 borders...I think it would be a slow process to pull back and Palestine would have ot hold up their end of the bargain to kepe the withdrawl moving.
I'm not sure I agree with your pre-1967 borders...I think it would be a slow process to pull back and Palestine would have ot hold up their end of the bargain to kepe the withdrawl moving.
It won't happen overnight, obviously, but it's very possible to move back to the '67 borders.
Also, do you honestly think Palestine would attack Israel if they saw them moving back to those borders?
If Palestinians started bulldozing Israeli homesteads and ancient Israeli orchards and forcefully evicting Israeli settlers from their homes....this entire 50/50 blame game argument might actually carry some validity.
until then... it's utter nonsense.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Also, I mentioned this earlier to which you had no response:
Hamas has said if Israel withdraws from the occupied territory, there would be peace while they discuss issues.
Israel has told Hamas to lay down weapons but has guaranteed NOTHING.
Oh, not to mention the fact that they were not "3/4ths" of the way done to achieving peace in the Oslo Accords. Israel offered the Palestinians the shittiest solution to the conflict, to which they knew Palestine would definitely not accept, because logically it cut the Palestinians off from essential land. Then Palestine offered their solution, which was the international consensus, to which Israel rejected. Where's the link that shows what Israel offered the Palestinians? It'll show how much Israel is interested in "peace."
I'm glad it won't be my realisation and humility to bear when the time comes.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
kinda like paying forward the holocaust eh?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
as like the initial response below - palestinians have waited a long time for international pressure and largely thanks to the US - nothing came of that ...
we all do what we can eh?
knowing is half the battle so they say. It does not negate the reality of what I said, and I live in Canada.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=636#sources5
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what does that have anything to do with? It's been known throughout history that population rising is often common among the poor... what point does this prove? If Palestinians have lots of children, then it means the situation isn't bad?
You always justify it...you say it's sad but you don't give a shit unless they're on "your side"
I'm a bit shocked...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Yep, it might not work. I've already said that the peace process should begin wiht Israel giving up land.
And you make a great point into why the UN is a worthless organization.
only as strong as it's weakest link...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Don't come to me to try to tell me what I'm trying to justify. I don't need to justify anything. The facts are there. Atleast I express some remorse about the Israeli children. You don't even fucking mention the Palestinian children. You just throw in these baseless arguments that are completely irrelevant to gain sympathy to the Israeli cause - a cause built on dehumanizing Palestine and stealing more land. Terrific.
I've never said that a Palestinian kid being killed was anything less then a ridiculous tragedy. I've ignored nothing.
I've also posted about terrorist Palestinian suicide bombers...and Israeli bulldozing and shooting of palestinians.
You've only ever seen 1 side of the story and justify all the killings of that side. It's a fact, I've read your posts.
I'm not sure I agree with your pre-1967 borders...I think it would be a slow process to pull back and Palestine would have ot hold up their end of the bargain to kepe the withdrawl moving.
I don't post much about Palestinian suicide bombers because it's irrelevant.
You read my posts so you know what I've seen and what my intentions are? what are you, a gypsy?
Also, do you honestly think Palestine would attack Israel if they saw them moving back to those borders?
until then... it's utter nonsense.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")